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Post by spandi on May 3, 2012 10:59:31 GMT -5
exactly what i say and none of them has answered this.....if i told u that u coud get a tv for half the price of a name brand but when it comes u r going to have 2 open it up change the wires , check all solder points and maybe change a capacitor or 2 , then u will have to open it up and adjust it every few months to keep it working and its gunna break down alot but its easy to fix and parts are cheap ,, would u say wow what a great deal?? i haven't answered it because it doesn't describe chinese bikes very well. i know this, even given the problems with my chinese ride i will certainly buy another for the price i paid for mine. no question. maybe you can explain why a japanese bearing failed in my final drive instead of all the "crappy chinese" bearings that are on my bike. Obviously the Japanese bought their bearings in China! HAHAHA!
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Post by larrym on May 3, 2012 17:26:02 GMT -5
all i see on this site is horror stories and constant repair questions with the chinese junk , the tv thing does describe what ive heard here of china scoots , full pdi , change wires and plug , constant valve adjustments and constant repairs to keep them running
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Post by spandi on May 3, 2012 17:41:07 GMT -5
I'm sure there won't be any such "horror stories" at the Kymco forum site.
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Post by texas on May 3, 2012 18:29:50 GMT -5
All I've heard here is how happy we are with our China girls. And a lot of people telling why that can't be true. I tell you again I dont have any problems at all and I ride it every day!
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Post by spandi on May 3, 2012 19:19:05 GMT -5
Chinophobia: A disorder characterized by irrational feelings of "Brand Name" superiority along with the obsessional belief that no one owning a Chinese scooter could possibly be happy or satisfied.
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Post by larrym on May 3, 2012 20:12:13 GMT -5
the kymco sites r not filled with horror stories like this one,, 9 out of ten posts here are horror stories
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Post by ericrockstar on May 3, 2012 20:22:19 GMT -5
Really, how many people come back or to a site like this to say how awesome their cheap Chinese ride is....nah, they come here when there is a problem and they find repair estimates half the cost of their cheap Chinese bike. The most scooters ever produced is the Honda cub. At 60 million. I would think these Chinese scoots are catching up at a rapid pace. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Super_Cub
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Post by spandi on May 3, 2012 20:46:21 GMT -5
Well then let me be the first to say it. (although I doubt it) My not-so-cheap Znen Titan 250 is, to quote Eric Cartman . "Totally awesome and Kooh"
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Post by larrym on May 3, 2012 21:35:20 GMT -5
it might be ,just dont try tellin me i wasted money on mine
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Post by spandi on May 3, 2012 22:40:43 GMT -5
I don't believe I've denigrated anyone's choice in two wheeled motor transport. (would that I could make the same assertion for others here.)
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Post by leo on May 3, 2012 23:56:08 GMT -5
all i see on this site is horror stories and constant repair questions with the chinese junk , honda forums are no different. i've been on honda forums where they discussed frames breaking in two and front wheels falling off. and yes, honda owners repair their bikes whether you want to believe it or not. this mainly applies to scoots purchased from drop shippers. yes, the electrical system on my ride was utter chaos. after the rewiring job my scoot has never failed to start. in other words the reliability increased to 100% i've adjusted my valves 4 times. valve adjustments are a fact of life for ANY engine that does not have hydraulic lifters. speaking only for my bike, constant repairs is a direct result of owner negligence i've answered your post. now, why did a japanese bearing fail on my ride as opposed to all the chinese bearings that are on it?
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Post by larrym on May 4, 2012 0:24:59 GMT -5
didn't have to change my wires , no valve adjustments , what negligence i change oil and add gas
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Post by qwertydude on May 4, 2012 0:32:42 GMT -5
An engine can be designed with solid lifters that doesn't require so much adjustment. I know because Honda car engines use similar adjustments to the GY6 and many go 100,000 miles without an adjustment.
I myself went 38,000 miles on my GS500F. It had Shim and bucket vales which are a total pain to adjust. I sold it at 38,000 miles and checked the valves at 30,000 miles and they were still pretty much like I got it at 4,000 miles.
My Honda Metropolitan bought at 900 miles and went to 15,000 before I sold it. Valves again didn't budge.
Chinese scoots I've owned a 50cc that's gone through 2 engines, first one was my fault since I did put a bbk and got 10k miles. Got 6k miles out of new engine before selling it, no problems but still needed a valve adjustment at 2k miles on new engine. Most I've went before needing a valve adjustment is 8,000 miles on my 150cc Heritage. My Piaggio Fly 150, never needed a valve adjustment in the 12,000 miles I owned it before selling it, didn't need one then either. Honda Rebel 25,000 miles before selling it, this was a 2004 whose model year had a known clutch problem that should have been recalled but Honda managed to not have to do it since clutches are a "wear item", it's clutch went at 14k miles but I changed it and fixed the problem. But at 25,000 miles it needed only one valve adjustment, then I sold it.
I'm just saying most people don't ride their bikes enough to truly put the durability of these engines to the test, especially the good name brand bikes which are known to go 50,000+ miles. When I see several examples of a Chinese scooter going 75,000 miles on the original engine. Then I'll start believing quality is on par. Honda Rebels with regular care and maintenance are known for going that distance. I know of several examples from the rebel250 forum. I sold my Honda Shadow Spirit 750 with 18k trouble free miles, never needed to touch any maintenance items other than oil and filter change.
But with all these miles on all these bikes I definitely did notice that my Chinese bikes did require more maintenance period. I maintain my bikes personally always in perfect 100% running order so it wasn't my negligence causing the excess in repairs.
On my Chinese scooters I've had bad fuel pumps, a common problem that pops up on this site as high speed bogging on 150cc scooters, which requires a Mikuni fuel pump. Cracked airboxes, never hard a cracked box on my name brand bikes. Oil leaks. Increased valve adjustment intervals. Crank bearings going, my fault though for a bbk, even though you can bbk a Piaggio Fly 150cc and still go 30k minimum.
So all in all Chinese vs name brand nowhere near equal.
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Post by spandi on May 4, 2012 0:52:03 GMT -5
An engine can be designed with solid lifters that doesn't require so much adjustment. I know because Honda car engines use similar adjustments to the GY6 and many go 100,000 miles without an adjustment. I myself went 38,000 miles on my GS500F. It had Shim and bucket vales which are a total pain to adjust. I sold it at 38,000 miles and checked the valves at 30,000 miles and they were still pretty much like I got it at 4,000 miles. My Honda Metropolitan bought at 900 miles and went to 15,000 before I sold it. Valves again didn't budge. Chinese scoots I've owned a 50cc that's gone through 2 engines, first one was my fault since I did put a bbk and got 10k miles. Got 6k miles out of new engine before selling it, no problems but still needed a valve adjustment at 2k miles on new engine. Most I've went before needing a valve adjustment is 8,000 miles on my 150cc Heritage. My Piaggio Fly 150, never needed a valve adjustment in the 12,000 miles I owned it before selling it, didn't need one then either. Honda Rebel 25,000 miles before selling it, this was a 2004 whose model year had a known clutch problem that should have been recalled but Honda managed to not have to do it since clutches are a "wear item", it's clutch went at 14k miles but I changed it and fixed the problem. But at 25,000 miles it needed only one valve adjustment, then I sold it. I'm just saying most people don't ride their bikes enough to truly put the durability of these engines to the test, especially the good name brand bikes which are known to go 50,000+ miles. When I see several examples of a Chinese scooter going 75,000 miles on the original engine. Then I'll start believing quality is on par. Honda Rebels with regular care and maintenance are known for going that distance. I know of several examples from the rebel250 forum. I sold my Honda Shadow Spirit 750 with 18k trouble free miles, never needed to touch any maintenance items other than oil and filter change. But with all these miles on all these bikes I definitely did notice that my Chinese bikes did require more maintenance period. I maintain my bikes personally always in perfect 100% running order so it wasn't my negligence causing the excess in repairs. On my Chinese scooters I've had bad fuel pumps, a common problem that pops up on this site as high speed bogging on 150cc scooters, which requires a Mikuni fuel pump. Cracked airboxes, never hard a cracked box on my name brand bikes. Oil leaks. Increased valve adjustment intervals. Crank bearings going, my fault though for a bbk, even though you can bbk a Piaggio Fly 150cc and still go 30k minimum. So all in all Chinese vs name brand nowhere near equal. Neither were Hyundai and Toyota...once upon a time.
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Post by texas on May 4, 2012 4:55:56 GMT -5
So now our little China girls are competing with 750cc motorcycles's ? lol, Come on now. I'm not saying I'm better just different . China bikes are here to stay get use to it!
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Post by qwertydude on May 4, 2012 8:37:58 GMT -5
Read carefully I'm also comparing it to other similar sized bikes like the 230cc air cooled Honda Rebel, Piaggio Fly 150, Honda Metropolitan. I've already gotten used to it. I did all my own maintenance and never complained about it but there are a lot of people still trying to say their Chinese scooters are just as good and reliable as the big name brand ones, except none have been put through enough miles to really prove it.
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Post by spandi on May 4, 2012 10:45:23 GMT -5
Have you seen what the Chinese have been up to lately? They're coming out with bikes in the 500-650-750cc range, and the quality is continually going up. They are well aware that to become the market leader the QC has to go up as well, and judging from what is happening they will do whatever it takes to reach their goal, and that is nothing less than to eat Japan's lunch. it's kind of like the early 1960's when Japan strove to be No.1, or as Yogi Berra once said "like Deja Vu all over again"
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Post by rockynv on May 4, 2012 11:56:32 GMT -5
When you compare the 2005/2008 Chinese bikes to the 2012's you can see an improvement. Someday they will eventually get there. Today with prices equalizing the perception of value may not be there when that happens. Remember when Toyota and Datson first arrived in the US there were the most inexpensive vehicles that you could find however today they are amoung the most expensive.
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Post by spandi on May 4, 2012 18:11:42 GMT -5
They're moving faster than one would think. When I got my scoot (and following PDI recommendations) I was all set to replace several parts with brand name items only to find that they were already put in! (ngk plug, Gates powerlink belt, Yuasa battery etc.)
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Post by bullet on May 4, 2012 19:48:58 GMT -5
IMO, China wants to be more than just a supplier of cheap scooters and parts. They are hungry and want to rise in world standing in more ways than one. I am old enough to remember the cheap stuff form Japan in the 50's and 60's and now many people on this forum recommend Hondas or other scooters built in the land of the rising sun. One thing China has that other companies didn't have. They will learn from history the successes and failures these companies from Japan and many other countries have had and monopolize on the successes and avoid the failures. They are hungry for it. The preceding was just the ramblings of an old man.
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Post by spandi on May 4, 2012 20:55:34 GMT -5
The Chinese feel it is time to take their rightful place on the world stage. not only that but to become THE dominant player in world events, sort of a combination of the United States and Japan.
P.S. I can also remember when "Made in Japan" meant the lowest quality of junk you could buy.
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Post by kevinhoconnor on May 4, 2012 22:53:37 GMT -5
Hi all , I'm looking at 2012 Znen's , 49 or 150 , how is the quality of 2012 Znen scoots.
Thanke , Kevin
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Post by rockynv on May 4, 2012 23:34:10 GMT -5
Not sure how things are going on with the new Znen however Lance and other high tier importers have stopped using them and are going over to Sym instead. Znen is bringing the bikes in themselves under the Puma brand and using local dealers to distribute them offering a parts and labor warranty so they seem to be changing the perception of quality issues they had from the 2007 bikes.
When I had to replace the defective head on my 2007 Lance I called Lance to make sure I did it right and that I got the correct torque specs however they warned me that on the Znen 150 I had to be very careful or the head would crack. Tighten the four studs to the torque spec which they emailed me but the two bolts on the timing chain side had to be put on finger tight only using Loctite to keep them in place or the head would crack if it heated up. I lost two heads with cracks in the timing chain area, the factory and one replacement. Hopefully these are some of the items that are improving. The mechanic who helped me install the last head showed me the difference between the Chinese GY6 head and the original design that they copied and it was pretty obvious why there was a problem. The original design had a heavier foot at the bottom where the side bolts were and thicker ribs to strengthen the area and prevent stress cracks.
To answer it depends on who Znen made the bikes for. Puma should be pretty good while others would depend on what specs were given Znen by the importer/distributor. If you find two identical looking Znen bikes with drastically different prices I would have to question the quality of the lower priced Znen. However the price alone would not be a 100% tell of quality.
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Post by h3nry on May 5, 2012 4:01:50 GMT -5
This is a little off from what has been being talked about but it is on subject.
A Guy asks me if that was my scoot outside and of course I say yes. He goes on to tell me he got to 3k miles(kilometers on his dash, I corrected him) and it was nothing but problems and now the piston is split. He then goes on to say all these Chinese scooters are crap and mine will die really fast. I had to explain to him I have been driving these things for over 5 years and know the issues. He continues on how bad they are and asks what issues I have had. I could only say small issues that I have caused and he couldn't believe it.
His scoot was running lean,be was beating the hell out of it and didn't understand why the piston imploded.... oh, he was at least 40......
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Post by cliftonc on May 5, 2012 9:34:28 GMT -5
heh heh. Things do change - when i was 8 years old (1960) I was with dad while he was was having the oil changed in his car at the local Gulf station. A bike pulled up at the pumps that I thought was the best-looking bike I had ever seen - it turned out to be a 1960 Honda Dream 305, the one with the pressed-steel frame, red, quiet, just sounded competent. This was the full-service days, and the owner went out to pump the gas. When he came back in, the flunkie there asked him what it was. I still after all these years remember his response - ""It's a Honda, one of them Jap things. I ain't heard of Honda before, and don't 'spect I will again." By the time I was in high school, there were daily a couple dozen Hondas in the student parking, along with the Bridgestones, Yamahas, etc. The Honda CB160 and CB350 were almost the Chevy sedans for high school riders. ;D
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Post by spandi on May 5, 2012 9:44:22 GMT -5
heh heh. Things do change - when i was 8 years old (1960) I was with dad while he was was having the oil changed in his car at the local Gulf station. A bike pulled up at the pumps that I thought was the best-looking bike I had ever seen - it turned out to be a 1960 Honda Dream 305, the one with the pressed-steel frame, red, quiet, just sounded competent. This was the full-service days, and the owner went out to pump the gas. When he came back in, the flunkie there asked him what it was. I still after all these years remember his response - ""It's a Honda, one of them Jap things. I ain't heard of Honda before, and don't 'spect I will again." By the time I was in high school, there were daily a couple dozen Hondas in the student parking, along with the Bridgestones, Yamahas, etc. The Honda CB160 and CB350 were almost the Chevy sedans for high school riders. ;D Nothing like a little perspective is there? Thanks for sharing your part of history.
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Post by spandi on May 5, 2012 10:26:30 GMT -5
heh heh. Things do change - when i was 8 years old (1960) I was with dad while he was was having the oil changed in his car at the local Gulf station. A bike pulled up at the pumps that I thought was the best-looking bike I had ever seen - it turned out to be a 1960 Honda Dream 305, the one with the pressed-steel frame, red, quiet, just sounded competent. This was the full-service days, and the owner went out to pump the gas. When he came back in, the flunkie there asked him what it was. I still after all these years remember his response - ""It's a Honda, one of them Jap things. I ain't heard of Honda before, and don't 'spect I will again." By the time I was in high school, there were daily a couple dozen Hondas in the student parking, along with the Bridgestones, Yamahas, etc. The Honda CB160 and CB350 were almost the Chevy sedans for high school riders. ;D A dream indeed! blog.james-pratt.com/2010/02/test-motorcycle/
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Post by WarrenS on May 5, 2012 16:09:50 GMT -5
I had a black 305 dream about 1966 or 7. I put a windshield on it and saddlebags. I called it my little Harley. It had those white wall tires. They were terrible in the wet. It was almost impossible to start off on wet roads. On the other hand all the guys I hung out with had Triumphs, BSAs, and Harleys. I would always wait for them to jump start their motors and when they were all running would hit the starter button. They thought that was weird. I was just ahead of my time.
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Post by cliftonc on May 5, 2012 16:10:56 GMT -5
Yep. That is pretty much what I saw, same color and all, but the one I remember had a long double seat and no rack. I thought it was the most gorgeous bike ever. For cars, it came for me when a neighbor of dad's bought a spanking new 1972 Buick Centurion convertible, also red, with the red interior. dad called it "arrest me red". Wow...
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Post by wooddogg on May 5, 2012 16:22:02 GMT -5
I ride mine every dry day to work and back.
They have no idea where it's made.
The bikers as well as the cagers are just pissed kuz gets 100mpg's, lol!!!!
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