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Post by oldbikerider on Apr 5, 2012 8:00:34 GMT -5
What is funny to me is that I read posts telling us to skip the China made scoot and get a Honda as they are better made and resell higher and don't break down.
I picked up a honda Metropolitan with 1500 miles on it that was not running for $300 and found out that it is made in China, uses many of the same parts, and requires just as much preventative maintenance. But to give Honda credit, they do ensure the quality of the unit from the Chinese factory, and they did make the scooter harder for the average person to work on ( Valve adjustments require shim replacement,etc).
Honda and other box store sellers have a service department that spends time (and charges you big money in setup fees) doing the initial assembly and PDI, (who knows what stuff they change when they uncrate their scooters), and adjust it to run for the customer.
With a drop ship unit you are the service department doing that initial service! So your new unit lives or dies on how well that initial service is preformed and how well you break it in.
Most people want a unit they can gas up and go off on WOT and are unwilling to follow the break in instructions correctly. They also are unable or unwilling to maintain them, then they call them junk when it quits.
Then there are the brand fanboys who denigrate any other brand but the brand choice they made, ( see Canon camera users or Harley riders for an example of this attitude).
Anyway, thats what I see, sorry for the rant.
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Post by timber on Apr 5, 2012 8:24:17 GMT -5
"and of course politics. people who can't tolerate anything MADE IN CHINA. forget the fact they are sitting on a chair made there and typing on a keyboard made there as they post their political tirades"
Its at the point you almost cant buy ANYTHING not made in China! you look at the labels on anything you buy, I'll bet 90% say "made in China" we have few manufacturing industries left, gone are the old Pennsylvania steel mills and machine shops, gone a re a lot of things. Even John Deere has their farm vehicles made overseas, we are now the largest DISTRIBUTORS of products, we don't make much of anything today we just buy it wholesale from China, Mexico and elsewhere and retail it here.
You walk past a construction site, you'll find all of the cranes, cats, dozers and heavy equipment all sport names like Daiwu, Mitsubishi etc. not one made in America.
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Post by inuyasha on Apr 5, 2012 8:30:02 GMT -5
What is funny to me is that I read posts telling us to skip the China made scoot and get a Honda as they are better made and resell higher and don't break down. I picked up a honda Metropolitan with 1500 miles on it that was not running for $300 and found out that it is made in China, uses many of the same parts, and requires just as much preventative maintenance. But to give Honda credit, they do ensure the quality of the unit from the Chinese factory, and they did make the scooter harder for the average person to work on ( Valve adjustments require shim replacement,etc). Honda and other box store sellers have a service department that spends time (and charges you big money in setup fees) doing the initial assembly and PDI, (who knows what stuff they change when they uncrate their scooters), and adjust it to run for the customer. With a drop ship unit you are the service department doing that initial service! So your new unit lives or dies on how well that initial service is preformed and how well you break it in. Most people want a unit they can gas up and go off on WOT and are unwilling to follow the break in instructions correctly. They also are unable or unwilling to maintain them, then they call them junk when it quits. Then there are the brand fanboys who denigrate any other brand but the brand choice they made, ( see Canon camera users or Harley riders for an example of this attitude). Anyway, thats what I see, sorry for the rant. Hi My friends i ride with that own harleys would not be amused to be called fanboys, no siree Take care and ride safely my friend Yours Hank
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Post by oldbikerider on Apr 5, 2012 9:02:10 GMT -5
Hank, I did paint with a broad brush, not all HD riders are like that nor are all Canon camera owners like that, but there is large and vocal group of users of those ( and other) products that exhibit a fanboy mentality.
My apologies,no offense intended.
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Post by inuyasha on Apr 5, 2012 9:22:17 GMT -5
Hank, I did paint with a broad brush, not all HD riders are like that nor are all Canon camera owners like that, but there is large and vocal group of users of those ( and other) products that exhibit a fanboy mentality. My apologies,no offense intended. Hi No apologies necessary my friend, i was just joshing you ;D But i ve found most of my friends, like me love all manner of motorbikes , be they a scoot, a motorcycle or motorized bike and the country of their origin makes no difference either For them and i, its all about the ride, 4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul Take care and ride safely dear friend Yours Hank
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 5, 2012 9:48:09 GMT -5
hi im new here but thought i'd post my opinion
alot of people hate anything that is chinese. they feel they are stealing american jobs, but in my opinion if americans didnt charge so much to do the same job those jobs wouldnt have left.
NOW i am ALL AMERICAN and i feel any company wants to make a profit.
But if you look around the same people who cry about the chinese products have dell computers with microsoft systems all made in china, they shop at wal mart and 90% of what they buy is made in china.
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Post by cliftonc on Apr 5, 2012 10:15:27 GMT -5
I loved my VW bug. Man, I sure could have used some YouTube videos on how to fix that thing. I guess the chiltons manual was the closest we had. Sure glad there is such a good source of info for my scoot. [chuckle] Back in the day, we had "How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot" by John Muir. This was back in the 1960s, when VW Beetles had much the same image with many folks. When the book came out, I was driving a '62 Beetle that had 6 volt electrics and did not even have a gas gauge! We need an equivalent book for Chinese scooters, maybe? If Muir was still alive, he might be riding a Chinese scoot today... ;D
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Post by timber on Apr 5, 2012 12:37:43 GMT -5
This was back in the 1960s, when VW Beetles had much the same image with many folks. When the book came out, I was driving a '62 Beetle that had 6 volt electrics and did not even have a gas gauge! We need an equivalent book for Chinese scooters, maybe? LOL, I had a 1965 VW bug with the automatic stick shift I paid $200 for for a temporary vehicle to get to work in. One day I gave a young co-worker a ride home, his car engine failed- it FROZE- he said he didn't know you had to put antifreeze in the radiator (in Vermont) so he only filled it with water. He was a tall heavyset guy and sat int he back seat as I took the front passenger seat out for hauling things. We were going up a hill and the road was bumpy, it suddenly felt like the engine was caughing after each bump, then we smelled smoke and he yells "THE SEAT'S ON FIRE!!!!" Pulled over, tossed the seat out and put out the fire. Turned out the metal springs in the seat were shorting out on the battery terminals underneath due to his weight LOL. Hi, Well the issue is, are you willing to pay $29.95 for a basic tee shirt made by union workers in a safe American factory, or do you go to Walmart and buy the package of 3 teeshirts made in China for $14.95? Chances are if you are a working stiff like most of us, you have a hard time justifying spending $29.95 for a tee shirt. It's the same across the board, and it's a fact, union workers, and American workers typically are paid well, get benefits, vacation, sick days, annual bonus checks often times, health insurance. The employer has to pay worker's comp, insurance, health care premiums, big taxes and half the SS payments. All of that adds up to a lot of money. My own employer pays around $600/mo or close to it for health insurance for each employee, and that's on a GROUP plan. The Chinese sweatshops avoid most of that, and farming work out to others on a piece basis or as a hired contractor reduces their costs too. Right, well you can't get away from it any more. I have a 3 HP repulsion induction electric motor made in 1928 in St Louis Mo, the frame is solid cast iron, and it has a massive copper and bronze commutator, brush holders etc. It has a grease cup and an oil filler reservoir for the bearings. It weighs 190#, look at how much a 3 HP electric motor weighs today- you can pick it up in one hand and it's basically disposable and not worth repairing, but that's what people seem to WANT, it breaks you toss it and get new. Most people wouldn't be caught DEAD with LAST YEAR'S model of anything, doesn't matter if it's a cell phone or a car, everyone wants the newest model. That is why no matter what you buy in electronics, printers, cameras, computers, you'll find every model DISCONTINUED within months usually and the model printer you bought last summer is no longer made. The stuff is made with that mindset- constant replacements, warrantees that are worthless because they know hardly ANYONE ever keeps a 2 year old camera or cell phone, and by 5 years your car is "outdated" so most trade it in for another new one, and get sucked into the payments, insurance, interest. My '94 Olds cutlass Ive owned about 5 years, bought it used off a co-worker for $900, He put 2,000 miles a month ont he car to/from work, so it now has around 200,000 miles on it, the FIRST time I ever had a mechanical problem with it was last week- the starter went out. The A/C stopped working last summer but probably only needs charging. First time Ive ever had to get a car towed in 15 years, my previous car was an '89 Corsica the same kind of thing- 180,000 miles on it, I paid $100 for it, and I had it about 7 years. Never once did it fail to start even when it was 20 below, and I never had to get it towed.
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Post by cliftonc on Apr 5, 2012 13:45:28 GMT -5
\\-olf, you hit it straight on. I still drive my 1993 S-10 pickup, now with about 193K on it, the deluxe Tahoe model (in those days that was a trim package, not an SUV). It was a $15k truck even in those days, but it is still rolling, gets 22mpg even with the high-back camper shell on it. I change the oil/filter every 3k miles, and replace coolant every two years. So far, the major repairs have been ball joints/tie rod ends, an alternator and an A/C compressor, and recently the passenger-side power window has stopped working. We will see how far it goes. Back in the '80s, a neighbor of mine bought a Yugo GVX, one of the rare ones with A/C, for a to-work commuter, OTD for about $5k. He had some issues we see here with the Chinese scooters - the tires and brake pads were rubbish and were replaced first thing, and he spent an entire weekend on the driveway with the tools, tightening everything he could put a wrench or screwdriver on. He changed the oil and timing belt exactly on schedule, and drove it pretty much trouble-free for over 100k miles, when it died tragically in a collision. He replaced it with a Toyota Tercel that he drove over 200k miles until he retired last year. In that time, his wife went through 5 or 6 Buicks, trading every few years. I have one of the much-cursed Sunny leaning reverse trikes, and did the same with it - tires, brake pads, light bulbs, valve adjustment, alignment, tightening-things marathon, good Yuasa battery, and before I even started it, changed out the fluids with Amsoil synthetic. It is over 2k miles now, and trouble-free. It is an around-town scoot,and as fast as it ever goes is about 45, but it is stone reliable.
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Post by quest4fire on Apr 5, 2012 20:02:07 GMT -5
I have been riding very high quality motorcycles all my life. I have had to learn how to keep them going, and it has been a challenge, and I am considered a bright guy. Sometimes problems are hard to diagnose, even with German and Japanese machines. I have been following this forum for over a year, and have often gasped at the peculiar problems that come up. Maintaining a well made, quality controlled scooter made of high grade materials by expert craftspersons requires thoughtfulness and care, and skill too. I cannot imagine what it is like to depend on a scooter that is made in a hurry of questionable materials, many of which need to be replaced before use, and with expectations of about 7000 miles of use. It isn't just the work or the money or the inconvenience. It is the danger of trusting one's life to a wild card scooter- might be all right, might not, who cares? The members of this list have a lot of expertise with these new twist n go scooters, and have helped me get an old Elite 125 going again. But I could never put myself or anyone else on a vehicle of questionable competence. You guys are amazing, but keep in mind that a lot of the Chinese scoots could really hurt some people.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 5, 2012 20:08:45 GMT -5
I have been riding very high quality motorcycles all my life. I have had to learn how to keep them going, and it has been a challenge, and I am considered a bright guy. Sometimes problems are hard to diagnose, even with German and Japanese machines. I have been following this forum for over a year, and have often gasped at the peculiar problems that come up. Maintaining a well made, quality controlled scooter made of high grade materials by expert craftspersons requires thoughtfulness and care, and skill too. I cannot imagine what it is like to depend on a scooter that is made in a hurry of questionable materials, many of which need to be replaced before use, and with expectations of about 7000 miles of use. It isn't just the work or the money or the inconvenience. It is the danger of trusting one's life to a wild card scooter- might be all right, might not, who cares? The members of this list have a lot of expertise with these new twist n go scooters, and have helped me get an old Elite 125 going again. But I could never put myself or anyone else on a vehicle of questionable competence. You guys are amazing, but keep in mind that a lot of the Chinese scoots could really hurt some people. wow is this isnt hatred or something for chinese scoots i dont know what is
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Post by larrym on Apr 5, 2012 20:16:39 GMT -5
its the truth , when i was first buying i talked to a guy who was selling sunny scoots and he told me not to buy it , he said the welds were awful , that they looked like they were done by a drunk with a bic lighter
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Post by cliftonc on Apr 5, 2012 20:46:23 GMT -5
I don't think hate per se, that is just his perception. I still have my jury out, as my Sunny is my first low-priced scooter, but I think we are talking about different standards. The in-town scoot here that the Sunny is replacing is a 1985 Honda Elite 250, considered by almost all to be a high-quality scoot, but brand-spanking-new in 1985, it went for $2795, in today's battered dollarettes $5914. The quality is commiserate with price - it still runs, and is pushing 40000 miles, but is pretty much used up. The Sunny was $2219, shipped, in 2010. But the Honda was unpacked, assembled, dealer-prepped, checked out and slicked up by Central Honda in Birmingham. The Sunny was unpacked, assembled, dealer-prepped, checked out and slicked up by me, in my garage. The tires, bulbs and battery were all lowest-bidder items. I think I got what I paid for. I must say that I have not read of any Sunny frames coming apart, and I must say that the little GY6 engine seems solid. I did the valve adjustment on my own, because I just have my own preferences for clearance. As to the 7000 miles, my expectations are higher, but we will see. An amazing number of known-quality Japanese brand bikes ARE made in China - you get the quality out of China that you demand, and the same used to be true of Japan. I can't help but refer back to my above post, and my Neighbor's Yugo - when he did his own PDI, and changed out the crappy tires and brake pads, it served him well for several years.
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Post by timber on Apr 5, 2012 23:51:40 GMT -5
its the truth , when i was first buying i talked to a guy who was selling sunny scoots and he told me not to buy it , he said the welds were awful , that they looked like they were done by a drunk with a bic lighter My TaoTao 50's welds were just excellent looking, no issues at all.
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Post by BaronScooter on Apr 5, 2012 23:54:52 GMT -5
The key is I disliked Chinese scooters because I have ridden everything ELSE. That said, after the Baron (aka "robber Baron") it has been "rather costly" investment, but nothing like the Vespa (aka "material Girl") which is 2-4 times the cost USED...so I really have to say, they each have their pluses and minuses but they are all good in their own right. The Baron is running great, and like the Vespa are both carbureted and really easy to work on...but then, that is the key, go with modern electronic fuel injection, disc brakes all around, water cooling (less engine wear), with synthetic lubes... and if it has both kick and electric start, that is a plus (scooter batteries are still too small a reserve) nowadays is an excellent buy.
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Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 6, 2012 3:17:04 GMT -5
hi im new here but thought i'd post my opinion alot of people hate anything that is chinese. they feel they are stealing american jobs, but in my opinion if americans didnt charge so much to do the same job those jobs wouldnt have left. NOW i am ALL AMERICAN and i feel any company wants to make a profit. But if you look around the same people who cry about the chinese products have dell computers with microsoft systems all made in china, they shop at wal mart and 90% of what they buy is made in china. i am all american too, silent. but the question is how much profit and at what expense how is it the american worker wants too much pay for a days work when some of these companies profit billions, pay ceos 10's of millions, and ship $10 an hour jobs overseas because they can't afford to pay americans a living wage? because if they did they would still profit and be able to invest and reinvest. but those at the very top would have to take a little cut. and although they have enough pay to last the average family 50 lifetimes, they won't do it you see its not just taxes some don't want to pay. and thats fine. but some don't want to pay american workers, either. they want us to spend and buy and make them rich. and that is great for their freedom. but they aren't going to hire me or you and they do not care. and that sucks for our freedom they have lifetimes of wealth stored, and there went our jobs lets work some numbers. lets start by assuming a company has profits in the billions, and ceos which make hundreds of millions over a number of years. so company fortune and individual fortune. they SAY they can't afford to hire. but for one hundred million dollars they could hire 200 workers at $50,000 a year for 20 years. a real living wage! now lets say a company profits JUST a billion dollars in just ONE year. and over 5 years a ceo of said company makes 300m dollars. lets look at the ceo salary, 1/3 of which would employ 200 people at $50,000 a year for twenty years. or how about 400 workers at $25,000 a year? thats reasonable, right? if you took just 1/3 of what he made in just 5 years you could employ 200 people for 20 years. or 40 years at 25,000 a year. you get the idea. and he would still have over 200m dollars left for himself. which means he could have and do all this TWICE over. but he can't pay american workers a dime, because obviously he needs to have and do all this THREE times over rather then employ american workers
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Post by doomsday on Apr 6, 2012 3:46:36 GMT -5
hi im new here but thought i'd post my opinion alot of people hate anything that is chinese. they feel they are stealing american jobs, but in my opinion if americans didnt charge so much to do the same job those jobs wouldnt have left. NOW i am ALL AMERICAN and i feel any company wants to make a profit. But if you look around the same people who cry about the chinese products have dell computers with microsoft systems all made in china, they shop at wal mart and 90% of what they buy is made in china. i am all american too, silent. but the question is how much profit and at what expense how is it the american worker wants too much pay for a days work when some of these companies profit billions, pay ceos 10's of millions, and ship $10 an hour jobs overseas because they can't afford to pay americans a living wage? because if they did they would still profit and be able to invest and reinvest. but those at the very top would have to take a little cut. and although they have enough pay to last the average family 50 lifetimes, they won't do it you see its not just taxes some don't want to pay. and thats fine. but some don't want to pay american workers, either. they want us to spend and buy and make them rich. and that is great for their freedom. but they aren't going to hire me or you and they do not care. and that sucks for our freedom they have lifetimes of wealth stored, and there went our jobs I 100% agree with this. Just look at the oil companies, BP made how many BILLION in profit last year and the gas prices just continue to skyrocket. The reason we are in a so called recession is because of gas. People can't afford to just ride around anymore. My father who is an avid fisherman used to fishing 4-5 times a week. He is retired so he is on a fixed income and he simply can not afford to do that anymore, or I should say can not afford to go as much as he used to. People aren't buying stuff because they can't afford it, they aren't buying stuff because now that money that would have went to other things, has to go to gas prices now. American wages simply are not keeping up with the cost inflation of living and it is hurting the entire economy. Think back, when was the economy really booming? Back when gas prices were in the lower to mid $2 range. They could easily go back to those prices and still make a very good profit. Chinese scooters are not a luxury in this time, they are a necessity and the chinese scooter manufacturers know this. This is one of the reasons why they can still get away with lower quality stuff in their scooters.
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Post by quest4fire on Apr 6, 2012 6:55:13 GMT -5
I have been riding very high quality motorcycles all my life. I have had to learn how to keep them going, and it has been a challenge, and I am considered a bright guy. Sometimes problems are hard to diagnose, even with German and Japanese machines. I have been following this forum for over a year, and have often gasped at the peculiar problems that come up. Maintaining a well made, quality controlled scooter made of high grade materials by expert craftspersons requires thoughtfulness and care, and skill too. I cannot imagine what it is like to depend on a scooter that is made in a hurry of questionable materials, many of which need to be replaced before use, and with expectations of about 7000 miles of use. It isn't just the work or the money or the inconvenience. It is the danger of trusting one's life to a wild card scooter- might be all right, might not, who cares? The members of this list have a lot of expertise with these new twist n go scooters, and have helped me get an old Elite 125 going again. But I could never put myself or anyone else on a vehicle of questionable competence. You guys are amazing, but keep in mind that a lot of the Chinese scoots could really hurt some people. wow is this isnt hatred or something for chinese scoots i dont know what is I have never owned a Chinese scooter, or even worked on one. I flagged down a woman in traffic who was driving one, because I am interested in scooters and it looked pretty cool. We are friends now. I asked her to drive out to my shop so I could look it over and maybe figure out why it would stall every 4 or 5 miles. I couldn't even find the spark plug. I drove it around a little and didn't like the seat and handlebars at all. It is a Znen Ricardo 150, the retro model with the long tail and elaborate handlebars. It looks glitzy but on inspection seems cheaply made. Everything I 'know' about Chinese scooters besides that is from this forum. I get the impression they are gradually improving in quality. But I also think that it is a ruthless attitude to make motor vehicles of erratic quality to sell in a foreign market that could fail in a critical situation. They just want the money, and they are untraceable for purpose of product liability. I am 58 years old, and grew up in a time when manufacturers stood behind their products and 2 wheelers were improving rapidly. I had my share of mechanical failures on Hondas, often from my own inexperience. I admire your patience and the depth of your knowledge, delving into the guts of these cvt scooters, but it is hard for me to read of machines that fall out of tune constantly, and are made of parts that are substandard when new, and require core upgrades from the very start. If they are kits perhaps they should be sold as kits. I have an 84 Elite I bought new, so know the appeal of the cvt. I am just saying that I wouldn't have the patience to do all the repairs and deal with the peculiar failures these Chinese machines are prone to. I drive a 52 year old scooter with over 80,000 miles on it. My life depends on how well it was designed and made. There are really old parts on this thing, it is mostly original. It is on its second set of ignition points and runs like new. It has taken an incredible pounding on backroads and it has been across the US and back and to Mexico. I drove my other Heinkel 4000 miles last summer. So a machine that has a life expectancy of about 7000 miles or so is hard for me to understand. I guess it is a cool hobby. I keep reading the posts every day, and I learn things that have really helped me get involved with the 125 Elite, which sat for 17 years and ran all last summer because of your advice. It seems to be the model for the Chinese scooters of today. I don't have much first hand experience with Chinese scooters. Never owned one. I don't hate them. I just urge you think twice when you recommend to a newbie something that might very likely have dangerous flaws, and is offered by manufacturers who don't care.
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Post by cpete1 on Apr 6, 2012 7:50:02 GMT -5
Doomsday, I bought a Qlink Communter back in 2008. I have 9300 miles on it, Rode it through 2 winters every day,(just short hops). Today, qlink doesn't sell this bike. The dealership, where I bought the scoot went bankrupt and is gone, I believe I was the one who informed the company about it when I made an inquiry about any other dealerships. Its a CF-MOTO fashion with a few mior changes. The design of the scooter is a clone of the Honda Helix which was in production for over 20 years. I'm guessing CF-Moto bought all the existing tooling to make the Fashion. This bike has been dropped from CF-Moto's line-up as they have a new 250 called the jet-max. Parts availability is a touch shakey as I had to wait 2 months for a plastic shroud to come out of "back-order" . If it was a part that stopped the scooter from running I would have been out of luck for a summer. I had an issue with the drivetrain and in the course of solving that, I spoke to quite a few dealers on this site, who said they had dropped the line due to less than excellent company support. My own contact with the company rep basically concurred with that . When the parts are available, they come quickley and the process is pretty straight-forward. I, by no means, hate my chinese scooter. But when I buy a new one, I'll spend the extra money and go mainstream. They are not for everybody. The dealers that I have talked to have been great, but the support from the chinese is where things get cloudy. They could very well be "gone " tomorrow. Japan had a world class tsunamie and they are still functioning. I also own a Yamaha 1100 CC cruiser. It really is your call in this thing. Do your homework, make your own choice, and good luck. At least you've hooked up with one of the best sites on scooters here at the Dawg Pound to figure things out. Chris
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Post by PasoDoble on Apr 6, 2012 11:07:15 GMT -5
Very interesting to read the varying perceptions among you great Scooterists!!! When my wife suggested the idea of a scooter, to solve a growing problem we face as of late resulting from over population of car ownerships leading to shortage of parking B4 one's home/house, I immediately thought of the Vespa since I did own one when I won over from another much older racer in his 20s back then in the mid 60s. However, I'm no technician fiddling away the fine tunings that goes hand in hand as I was a born urban street racer and the team I belong to had our own mechanics to tinker and beef up the machines. Thus, to consider a Vespa was my initial assumption and after visiting several scooter dealer networks in our city, we gained varying conclusions and this has to do with our need (but dire it sure isn't at all...) nonetheless, it was my wife's suggestion and its going tobe me that will steer and she the pillion... (she doesn't even cycle on a bicycle.... EVER in her lifetime and it won't happen at all) but I wasn't keen myself to hop onto a two wheeler either. There's more comfort seated in a cockpit and being able to slow cruise along scenic routes to rev up and stay cruising on an average of 190kph, even with the cruise control managing it. But it is now an impending necessity to counter a frustrating dilemma when one's parking spot is no more a guarantee these days esp when living in a city district hence, its a smart & also, economic move for an option to consider getting a two wheeler. In our case, which is no different I soon gather whilst exchanging views both at the dealer shops and reading the scooter forums, the Chinese brands have a simple and accommodating solution whilst on the other hand, it faces two or more principal demands with extreme perceptions on how and which is better suited for one's personal use. As Vespa and other top Italian brands are the favs of thieves and this in turn gave the Insurance Co to hike the premium fees plus the fact that once they are stolen, the recovery % by the Police is still dismal for any encouragement. The segment on its own is simply uninteresting to put it mildly for the Police to intensify their search for a solution. Who then should we, as end users trying NOT to be duped at our expense and pride with traditional loyalty with tradition, just to increase turnover & sales for the Vespa chain dealers? Like "quest4fire" cruising at 58 too on this side of the Euro Continent, I have never ridden on a Chinese made product like a bike or bicycle nor cars either but with the default 2-years warranty on everything surrounding the scooter I was assured, I treat this recent purchase as a "Ride & Rid" vehicle component that should be regarded as affordable & obviously, bearable too. But now, after the placing my siggy on the dotted line, I became enthralled with the prospects of the scooter, the Chinese scooter i.e. esp after getting acquainted with a new friend, he's from the USA with three Vintage cars and a speedy Jag and he was the second buyer of the shop when it open for business a year ago by this young racing scooter lad. Mickey, the American who now works here, is all rave and fully enthousiastic in owning his ferrari red Retro scooter and after one long chat lasting almost 2,5 hours at the scooter shop were we met, we got along on covering more grounds to delve further with this new found thrill... and so, we'll start pimping our scooters... with "quality" stuffs of course and from this, I can expect our Chinese scooter will be having all kinds of additions zapped into it.... The Vespa in fact, looks dull and would stay dull with only its original parts & snotty accessories hence, this isn't interesting with creative exploits that the Chinese scooter will allow and become subjected to. I'm going to enjoy my Chinese scooter which I will also spray paint the initials, P D, on the front body shield which is actually the initial names of my wife & me. Being new dance learners, the Paso Doble is most befitting to name her. This is how it looks from a showroom model I snapped the other day at the dealer shop. This is the color I chose, its another consideration confronting & curb theft. The more unique it appears, the lesser the interest by the thief on Chinese scooters.... heheh, for they are not the favorite scooters on their Steal List. Another important aspect to go for a Chinese scooter instead and the Insurance fees are far lesser too regardless of the high comprehensive coverage one gets covered from. Attachments:
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Post by quest4fire on Apr 6, 2012 12:38:22 GMT -5
I am sorry I created ill feeling on the list. I enjoy this forum because it is lively, enthusiastic, and helpful. From now on I will be more positive in my posts. After all, this is a forum for owners of Chinese scooters, and I have been inconsiderate. Right now I am working on my old 84 Elite, and before I found this site I had a terrible time relating to it. And that was with a shop manual! I hope you all have a good time driving and tinkering on your scooters and I will too. So back to the carburetor. Why won't that Honda start?
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Post by cliftonc on Apr 6, 2012 15:29:57 GMT -5
No ill feelings on my part, just differing opinions. No sweat. On the Honda, if it has spark, it can only be fuel, and two things come to mind - 1) fuel supply; these have a vacuum-operated petcock, to stop the flow of fuel while the engine is not running. The easiest way to check it is to take the fuel line loose at the carb, and turn it over with the starter, gas should start to flow. If it doesn't, either the petcock is faulty or it is losing its vacuum somewhere. There is a rubber line from the intake manifold to the petcock on the gas tank, and it is looking for pulses of intake vacuum in that line to open the petcock. If the rubber line is damaged, loose, etc it won't get the vacuum and fuel won't flow. 2) the "autostarter", which functions as an automatic choke, and gives it a bit extra gas when starting. The shop manual should tell you about that. The other thing (ok, 3 things) is just compression - buy or borrow a compression gauge and check it. If the scoot sat for a long time, a valve could be stuck or a ring "set" and it could just be low on compression.
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Post by beachbum on Apr 6, 2012 16:45:34 GMT -5
I am sorry I created ill feeling on the list. I enjoy this forum because it is lively, enthusiastic, and helpful. From now on I will be more positive in my posts. After all, this is a forum for owners of Chinese scooters, and I have been inconsiderate. Right now I am working on my old 84 Elite, and before I found this site I had a terrible time relating to it. And that was with a shop manual! I hope you all have a good time driving and tinkering on your scooters and I will too. So back to the carburetor. Why won't that Honda start? No problem. I would love see some pics of your scoots. Nice!
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Post by leo on Apr 6, 2012 18:22:33 GMT -5
My TaoTao 50's welds were just excellent looking, no issues at all. same here. i had mine down to the skeleton at 6000 miles to rewire it. the only thing i noticed was some rust where the head tube makes the bend to run under the scoot. the person i got it from obviously didn't do a PDI because the rear brake line was routed over the frame in this area. watch out for potholes.
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Post by doomsday on Apr 6, 2012 18:28:09 GMT -5
I am sorry I created ill feeling on the list. I enjoy this forum because it is lively, enthusiastic, and helpful. From now on I will be more positive in my posts. After all, this is a forum for owners of Chinese scooters, and I have been inconsiderate. Right now I am working on my old 84 Elite, and before I found this site I had a terrible time relating to it. And that was with a shop manual! I hope you all have a good time driving and tinkering on your scooters and I will too. So back to the carburetor. Why won't that Honda start? No offense taken here either. The question is pretty self explanatory and if someone doesn't like them, they are more then welcome to tell me why. It is why I asked after all lol
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Post by cajun66 on Apr 6, 2012 18:46:38 GMT -5
I have a 110cc Chinese clone of a Honda dirt bike that a friend gave me for my kids. His son rode the wheels off it for the last 5 years. Still pulls strong. My Brother-in-law bought a chinese scoot a few years ago and, other than there being no bearings in the steering stem, I couldn't find fault with it. I'll leave politics out of this one.
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Post by timber on Apr 6, 2012 18:52:58 GMT -5
They all reported RECORD profits every quarter during the bush latter years, with each subsequent quarter exceeding the profit of the one before it! Meanwhile the oil barons were claiming the price of crude went up, yes, it did, BUT do the math; If a 50 gallon barrel of oil wholesale costs $100 and converted to gasoline, and lets say you get 50 gallons of gas from that, and it sells for $3.00 a gallon it equals $150 for the 50 gallons. if the WS price jumps to $150 your COST went up $50 for the barrel ($1 per gallon) and if you add that increased COST to the retail gas price- the 50 gallons would sell for $200, which because it cost $150 still leaves $50 profit in this example. Therefore, if you simply pass along the increased COST,there is no way you could report RECORD profits this quarter, even higher next quarter, still higher the following quarter! The only way you can do that is if say, you DOUBLE that increase. That $50 WS cost increase now becomes a $100 price increase on the gasoline, thus, instead of it costing $4.00 a gallon it's now $5.00, and your profits increased by $50. The following quarter your WS price increases $65, now the barrel is $215, so you double that $65 increase and now you break the previous quarter's profits. So just because the WS cost increases doesn't mean more profits- DOUBLING that increase DOES, and that's essentially what they have been doing, maybe not doubling but you get the idea- they are not passing the increases along alone, they are adding an incremental percentage on top of it Not really, not when you examine today's consumers, how many people buy a brand new car today and will keep it 10 or 15 years? heck, they are brainwashed into the mindset that they have to keep up with the latest STYLES, and no one would ever want to be seen driving an outdated car, or wearing an outdated suit or tie to the office for a business meeting- why, EVERYONE there will see your 2 year old tie and think what a cheap-skate you are wearing that "old" outdated out of style thing! This is why automakers come up with new STYLES every freaking year, and sell the 2013 models in 2012- months before the callendar even thinks about changing over. Most people buy a new car, keep it maybe 3 years or so, and then trade it in while it's still in good shape and low miles, and get another new one. Similar to houses, few people today buy a house and live there 30 years like our parents and grand parents did back in the days when 30 year mortgages were pretty standard and everyone had one. Everyone had one because they often stayed in the house that long. NOW it's like there's this wierd mindset that a house is some kind of "investment" not something you LIVE in any more it seems, but something you buy, live in 3-5 years and then SELL and move to another one and do the same on that. Some of that is due to having to change jobs, but it seems all I hear these days are complaints about a mortgage being more than the house is worth (still need a place to LIVE regardless of what it's worth) or that it's VALUE has dropped (were you planning to SELL it so soon?? I thought houses were to live in...) You see ads for furniture and kitchen cabinets and appliances trying to sell you on the idea that YOUR kitchen or bathroom is OUTDATED and you need all new cabinet doors, sink and appliances to keep up with the latest STYLES. You go and buy electronics- cameras, camcorders, printers, computers, heck, the stuff is outdated an obsolete in a YEAR, you buy a new canon color inkjet printer, have it a few months and like it, if it doesn't break down and you decide to get a second one for the office, you go search for it and run into "DISCONTINUED MODEL." Same thing with computers, monitors and software, I'm a Mac user, and even with them, you get a new model and 9 months later it's already obsoleted by the NEWER model being advertised. Within maybe 3-4 years it's all but functionally obsolete as the OS is changed and software writers stop updating older software, so you are forced to update, upgrade and buy new on a continuous basis. I had a viewsonic monitor I liked, worked well, went to buy another like it, it was already discontinued. You can't buy a new 2009 metropolitan scooter now unless some dealer happens to have one sitting around I guess, and it's already being replaced by the 2013 model anyway. 7,000 miles on a scooter is a fair amount, if you live in the snow belt you aren't going to be riding it in Nov, Dec, Jan or Feb it'll be sitting in the garage for 4-5 months out of the year. Like a lawn mower with that great 2 year warrantee- who mows the lawn in the USA in January? if you live in the snow belt it's sitting in the garage for 4-5 months out of the year, and then it's out to be used on Sat or Sunday for an hour or so at a time. Like the scooter, the lawn mower doesn't get used 10 hours a day 5 days a week, same as you aren't likely to ride a 49 cc scooter for a 500 mile trip @ 30 MPH to visit aunt Bessie. 7,000 miles, 7 months of driving in a driving season, if you put on 500 miles a month it's 2 years worth of driving, with the lawn mower, an hour of use a weekend for a small typical yard, for 7 months= 28-30 hours of use in a year, that means the engine is likely to have less than 60 hours of use in the 2 year warrantee period, NOW WONDER they can offer such a "generous" warrantee 30 hours of scootering @ 30 MPH is 900 miles 60 hours of scootering @ 30 MPH is 1,800 miles. One could extract that to it's eqivalent for the lawnmower run time, and we all know mowers are disposable junk that is frequently replaced, they also cost 1/2 that of a Chinese scooter.
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Post by quest4fire on Apr 6, 2012 19:50:27 GMT -5
I am sorry I created ill feeling on the list. I enjoy this forum because it is lively, enthusiastic, and helpful. From now on I will be more positive in my posts. After all, this is a forum for owners of Chinese scooters, and I have been inconsiderate. Right now I am working on my old 84 Elite, and before I found this site I had a terrible time relating to it. And that was with a shop manual! I hope you all have a good time driving and tinkering on your scooters and I will too. So back to the carburetor. Why won't that Honda start? No problem. I would love see some pics of your scoots. Nice! Attachments:
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Post by quest4fire on Apr 6, 2012 19:55:56 GMT -5
I am sorry I created ill feeling on the list. I enjoy this forum because it is lively, enthusiastic, and helpful. From now on I will be more positive in my posts. After all, this is a forum for owners of Chinese scooters, and I have been inconsiderate. Right now I am working on my old 84 Elite, and before I found this site I had a terrible time relating to it. And that was with a shop manual! I hope you all have a good time driving and tinkering on your scooters and I will too. So back to the carburetor. Why won't that Honda start? No problem. I would love see some pics of your scoots. Nice! Attachments:
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Post by PasoDoble on Apr 6, 2012 21:01:10 GMT -5
I just got to view by enlarging yr foto attachment and noticed the very top level of yr screen-shield is about the same level of your eyes. Do you get to feel the surge and wind flow hitting straight onto yr face, let alone if insects were dragged along within? I'm just curious on this....
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