|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 8:13:22 GMT -5
I have looked around on a few forums and besides this site (and there is some here to) chinese scooters are considered as the devil and should never ever be bought. I don't understand this really. Sure there are several things you need to do to them when you first get them, but even then, the cost with upgrades are still FAR FAR less then the standard cost of scooters. Is the hatred coming from people who just doesn't want to work on their scooters or are ones who buy them and don't do anything to them and they break down on them 3 months later?
I honestly do not understand this hatred towards chinese scooters. You gotta wonder if much of it is not actually coming from other manufacturers that are pissed they are getting undercut in price so badly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Enviromoto on Apr 4, 2012 8:25:02 GMT -5
They hate because they can.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pony66 on Apr 4, 2012 8:25:38 GMT -5
Most all hate comes from ingnorance. Many people hate that which they dont understand.
My opinion is that many people dont think about preventative maintenance. Others dont understand that if you cut out the dealer and get one drop shipped, some assembely is required. Others simply believe the rants that somebody makes when they are upset.
Then again, with millions and millions of GY6 providing transportation to much of the world, there has to be a few lemons somewhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by timber on Apr 4, 2012 8:52:36 GMT -5
WHo knows, but when you consider $600 v/s $2,000, you can almost buy 4 chinese scooters for the price of a honda's lowest priced model scooter.
Even if you spend $100 on replacing fuel lines, tires, filter etc to start with, you are still ahead.
Even if you spend another $200 getting a performance CDI and a better carb, coil, plug etc to take care of those potential trouble spots, you are still ahead.
One guy on youtube was going on about how a Honda can last 30,000 miles with no major repairs, well, how many people in the USA ride a 49 cc scooter for 30,000 miles?
Few and far between!
In the snow belt you cant ride them in the snow or when it's 20 below zero, so it limits use mainly to late spring thru early fall, which limits the miles per YEAR you can put on it as does the 30 mph speed, it would take years to put 30,000 miles on a scooter, @ 3,000 miles a year are you planning to keep it for 10 years??
Plus they were designed for mainly in town, short commute trips, not driving 500 miles one way to visit aunt Bessie for Thanksgiving dinner.
30,000 miles would take a long time to accumulate on a 49 cc scooter, meanwhile, you can totally replace a 139QMB engine for around $325 with a brand new one which is a real bargain when you think about what's there.
The guy was ragging on about how his friend's CVT belt shreaded and damaged his clutch etc after "only" 4,400 miles of driving, I suggested his friend should have done some BASIC maintenance of wear & tear items and inspecting parts like belts periodically, and he gets all kind of worked up about how he doesn't have that kind of free time to spend tearing into things "every week" or whatever to inspect.
So I said, your friend sounds like the sort of guy who NEVER checks the radiator hoses or battery age on their car untill the hoses blow on the road or the battery quits late some snowy night far from home because it's 6-8 years old and had it.
You don't have to check the belt EVERY WEEK! but geez, check it after 500 miles and 1500 miles at least!
I further asked, how hard IS it to remove 8 little bolts, pull the cover off and LOOK at the belt?? it takes 10, 15 minutes tops, do it after 500 miles and if it looks fine, do it at 1500 miles, and when you see evidence of fraying or wear, that's when you REPLACE it, but letting it go for 4,400 miles till it breaks on the road and damages some other part is just plain STUPID.
Same as driving a car around with a 7 year old battery, or radiator hoses that old, tires with bald spots.
The guy's video is basically titled something like "This is why you should never buy a Chinese scooter" and he shows the belt and damage, it's all black in the case and lots of powdery crud, it's been going bad for a LONG time and he never bothered to pop the cover off and inspect something that gets as much wear and tear as that little thin belt gets.
I also said the Honda and the rest of them all use the very SAME CVT system with the SAME belt, and that he should have gotten a better quality kevlar belt, about $20 to $22 for crying out loud, isn't going to break the bank!
I took my CVT cover off the other day and looked, it was in mint condition inside there at 325 km with the original belt.
I'll be checking it again at maybe 1,000 km.
People also don't think of things like rubber falling apart from age, even tires not being used have a shelf life of around 6 years, the rubber starts to break down at the chemical level from exposure to oxygen, and in the case of tires- sunlight.
EVen if the scooter sits in a garage, the rubber is aging every day, tires, hoses, belt.
|
|
|
|
Post by trailheadmike on Apr 4, 2012 8:58:41 GMT -5
Best positive posts i've seen yet. Well said guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by dudley on Apr 4, 2012 9:10:13 GMT -5
We are trained all our lives to expect new stuff to work and if it doesn't we can get our money back.( in the USA anyhow )
This whole Chinese scooter transaction is a whole new way of thinking.
Some people should not buy a chinese scoot.
How can people buy Internet scooters but not research them first?
Knowing is half the battle.
|
|
|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 9:24:24 GMT -5
So it is pretty much as I suspected. Ignorance and laziness. You buy a $2500 scooter and it already has all the quality parts already in it where as if you buy a $700 scooter and spend $300 to put in all the same quality parts, you are still much better then spending the $2500 in the first place. However, there are people out there who feel the brand name means a lot and are more than willing to pay extra for that name. And then the lazy ones who never check nothing and get all ticked off when something breaks and it could have been prevented with nothing more than a few minutes of time and actually looking.
So what really should be said is who, is a chinese scooter NOT for and then list out those things. It really seems to me that, it boils down to people who don't want to do anything maint related to their scooters. And frankly, even that could bite you with a $2500 scooter as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 9:29:19 GMT -5
We are trained all our lives to expect new stuff to work and if it doesn't we can get our money back.( in the USA anyhow ) This whole Chinese scooter transaction is a whole new way of thinking. Some people should not buy a chinese scoot. How can people buy Internet scooters but not research them first? Knowing is half the battle. That was me right there. I decided I wanted a scooter but was not willing to pay the premium that these companies are wanting to charge for the scooters. So I looked into the chinese made scooters and the conclusion was, they work perfectly fine as long as you are willing to spend some time doing preventive maintenance stuff and learning how to do minor things for yourself. I am not a mechanically inclined person and with all the videos out there, I have been able to rip into the cvt and change things out myself. It was actually interesting to learn as I should be in there checking things out every now and then anyways. So for me, if I want to go to a bigger scooter, I still look at the chinese scooters as a perfectly viable way to go. Its all still the same stuff, just slightly bigger engines. |
|
|
|
Post by treeluvr on Apr 4, 2012 9:35:50 GMT -5
I look at it like this, if you are going to learn to ride a motorcycle you don't go out and buy a 1100cc top of the line bike you get a 600 and see if you like it. 1500 miles later I still love my Xingyue and it loves me!
|
|
|
|
Post by rusiwhite on Apr 4, 2012 10:09:06 GMT -5
My white eagle is a Chinese Scoot but I don't care what other's saying why I got a junk machine. My scoot has been with me for almost a year now. Through ups and downs of my life, I drove my scooter and still running good. No mechanical problems had been noted. The issue is not where the machine was made, but it is how a driver and owner take care of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by beachbum on Apr 4, 2012 11:30:20 GMT -5
Well said guys.
Definitely correct that its a whole different mentality about buying chinese scooters. You have to know that you are going to put a little time and money into it right off the bat. Some are not willing to do that, or did not know that they have to do that, and then cry and moan when it breaks down.
I look at it as a cheap hobby.
|
|
|
|
Post by inuyasha on Apr 4, 2012 11:43:52 GMT -5
Hi
All scooters can become problematic without the proper maintenance
I love all manner of scoots, my first was a 4t chinese 50cc Puma i loved her, she had no problems and ran fine
My present one is an aprilia which i purchased because i wanted a faster 2T 50 this time and my B&M dealer was able to get me one
Even this one being a name brand would not get me very far if i didnt give her good maintenance
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank
|
|
|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 11:52:24 GMT -5
Well said guys. Definitely correct that its a whole different mentality about buying chinese scooters. You have to know that you are going to put a little time and money into it right off the bat. Some are not willing to do that, or did not know that they have to do that, and then cry and moan when it breaks down. I look at it as a cheap hobby. LOL none of my hobbies are cheap. I am a gamer so I have to keep my pc rig up, I fly RC stuff so that can get expensive quickly and now I am into scooters which my wife thinks already costs way to much and thats with a chinese scooter lol. |
|
|
|
Post by beachbum on Apr 4, 2012 11:56:49 GMT -5
Well said guys. Definitely correct that its a whole different mentality about buying chinese scooters. You have to know that you are going to put a little time and money into it right off the bat. Some are not willing to do that, or did not know that they have to do that, and then cry and moan when it breaks down. I look at it as a cheap hobby. LOL none of my hobbies are cheap. I am a gamer so I have to keep my pc rig up, I fly RC stuff so that can get expensive quickly and now I am into scooters which my wife thinks already costs way to much and thats with a chinese scooter lol. Funny! I guess it is kind of relative. My dream is to restore a VW bug, notchback or ghia. Since, these are way out of my price range chinese scooters are cheap in comparison. |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Apr 4, 2012 12:04:50 GMT -5
I liked my Lance Vintage a lot but the economy of it was a wash compared to the Aprilia I now ride. Much better fuel economy on the Aprilia, far less maintenance required and much higher reliability to top it off. The Lance was costing me $1000 to $1500 a year more in lost time, maintenance, repairs and gasoline (50 mpg Lance 80 mpg Aprilia) then I am currently spending on my Aprilia so that the initial higher cost of the Aprilia is moot. The amount of free time I got back was surprising and a welcome bonus.
|
|
|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 12:24:25 GMT -5
LOL none of my hobbies are cheap. I am a gamer so I have to keep my pc rig up, I fly RC stuff so that can get expensive quickly and now I am into scooters which my wife thinks already costs way to much and thats with a chinese scooter lol. Funny! I guess it is kind of relative. My dream is to restore a VW bug, notchback or ghia. Since, these are way out of my price range chinese scooters are cheap in comparison. Yep, My uncle used to rebuild vw's in his spare time. he always had 10 or so vw's sitting around his house at any given moment. That man could almost put an entire vw together blind folded. It was amazing to watch. What you need to do is look for them outside of your state. My state people think of vw's as pure gold and charge an arm and a leg for one. My home state of Wv, you can buy them all day long for extremely cheap. Might want to check into that. A friend of mine several years ago wanted a vw bus. Down here the cheapest you could find one was over 5k and not even running. He went to Wv and drove one back he paid $300 for and had that thing for many many years. |
|
|
|
Post by Pony66 on Apr 4, 2012 12:26:27 GMT -5
Funny! I guess it is kind of relative. My dream is to restore a VW bug, notchback or ghia. Since, these are way out of my price range chinese scooters are cheap in comparison. Yep, My uncle used to rebuild vw's in his spare time. he always had 10 or so vw's sitting around his house at any given moment. That man could almost put an entire vw together blind folded. It was amazing to watch. What you need to do is look for them outside of your state. My state people think of vw's as pure gold and charge an arm and a leg for one. My home state of Wv, you can buy them all day long for extremely cheap. Might want to check into that. A friend of mine several years ago wanted a vw bus. Down here the cheapest you could find one was over 5k and not even running. He went to Wv and drove one back he paid $300 for and had that thing for many many years. My Dad used to drag race VW bugs. I think they look great ripping down the 1/4 mile. |
|
|
|
Post by dudley on Apr 4, 2012 13:25:37 GMT -5
I loved my VW bug.
Man, I sure could have used some YouTube videos on how to fix that thing.
I guess the chiltons manual was the closest we had.
Sure glad there is such a good source of info for my scoot.
|
|
|
|
Post by shalomdawg on Apr 4, 2012 13:55:39 GMT -5
howdy, just another contrarian point of view. i'm disabled and maintainance is a literal pain for me to do. if i get stranded somewhere it could be bad for me cause i'd have trouble hiking anywhere to get help. i need something to ride that is relatively reliable and other than oil changes which i can do, needs little checking on. i have three scooters and have attempted to get the covers off the drive system on all three and failed to get it done cause the pain settled me before the job got done. none of the scooters i have ever left me stranded. the kymco has had nothing done except first valve adjust and oil changes and now coming up on 7500 miles. the piaggio has needed lots of work done and cost me more than a car for the miles driven but never left me stranded. 7500 miles. the sym never left me stranded. you see where i'm coming from. most chinese scoots wouldn't do for me--but that's just me
lotsa miles and smiles to ya
|
|
|
|
Post by beachbum on Apr 4, 2012 13:55:54 GMT -5
I loved my VW bug. Man, I sure could have used some YouTube videos on how to fix that thing. I guess the chiltons manual was the closest we had. Sure glad there is such a good source of info for my scoot. It is pretty incredible how much info is at our hands today. This kind of knowledge used to cost you, and that goes to the point of owning a chinese scooter; if this knowledge wasn't available then I probably would not own a chinese scooter. |
|
lceel
Junior Dawg
Posts: 7
|
Post by lceel on Apr 4, 2012 14:14:36 GMT -5
I just bought a Chinese 250cc Scoot - that I never would have bought were it not for my son, who is mechanically inclined, and the Internet videos which are so prevalent. I'm not bad with a wrench either - so we got it covered. I think.
Ride Safe. Ride aware. Ride away.
|
|
|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 14:35:00 GMT -5
I loved my VW bug. Man, I sure could have used some YouTube videos on how to fix that thing. I guess the chiltons manual was the closest we had. Sure glad there is such a good source of info for my scoot. It is pretty incredible how much info is at our hands today. This kind of knowledge used to cost you, and that goes to the point of owning a chinese scooter; if this knowledge wasn't available then I probably would not own a chinese scooter. I agree, It is one of the things that drew me to the chinese scooters. There are videos for just about everything on these things now and they really help out a ton! |
|
|
|
Post by SylvreKat on Apr 4, 2012 18:01:26 GMT -5
I can't understand how anybody decides they want a scooter then doesn't do research into it. When I decided, first thing I called my Harley friend. He told me to stay away from Chinese 'cause I have zero mechanical ability. I started looking around, then would go online to motorcycle.com and check out any models that interested me. All of which combined to make me decide on my Peej.
But then the hate goes the other way too. I've read posts here that call me and anyone else who paid more for her scooter a total moron. I mean, they've gone far beyond just the "makes more sense to pay less" comments into actual nastiness. Not often, but they're there.
Then again, there's also the hate aimed at "all cagers" which I tend to take personally, as I drive my wagon more than my scooter. In fact, I take offense just to the insulting term "cager". It's sort of the same as a racial slur, 'cause it's rarely meant with affection.
>'Kat
|
|
|
|
Post by SylvreKat on Apr 4, 2012 18:03:26 GMT -5
Btb, me, I'm impressed by you guys with your China-scoots. You're all over working on them, you sound like you're having a blast, and you saved money. Me, I'll just let my mechanic have that fun.  >'Kat |
|
|
|
Post by doomsday on Apr 4, 2012 18:12:05 GMT -5
I always say buy what you can afford. If it makes you happy then thats the only person that really counts. Let me put up front that I have always been very biased when it came to two wheels. Not that I didn't like em, I love em, what I do hate is the price tags. I have never felt a motorcycle, no matter how elaborate it is, should cost more then a couple thousand dollars at best. My friends have slammed me more times then not over that, but sadly that is how I feel. I look at it like this, there are 2 wheels, an engine, a place to sit and handlebars for steering. Why should it ever cost anywhere near a full car is beyond me and I simply can not understand it. However, people buy em up left and right so obviously its just me. So when I saw these chinese scooters being sooo much cheaper, I had to have one but I did do a lot of research prior to actually getting one and found that I would have to do stuff. Hey, it was a good excuse to finally get some more tools hehe.
|
|
|
|
Post by orphansoul on Apr 4, 2012 19:34:52 GMT -5
Because they aren't the scooters America deserves. They are the scooter America needs.
Silent protectors....dark knights.
They hate us because we can take it.
|
|
|
|
Post by spandi on Apr 4, 2012 19:47:56 GMT -5
WHo knows, but when you consider $600 v/s $2,000, you can almost buy 4 chinese scooters for the price of a honda's lowest priced model scooter. Even if you spend $100 on replacing fuel lines, tires, filter etc to start with, you are still ahead. Even if you spend another $200 getting a performance CDI and a better carb, coil, plug etc to take care of those potential trouble spots, you are still ahead. One guy on youtube was going on about how a Honda can last 30,000 miles with no major repairs, well, how many people in the USA ride a 49 cc scooter for 30,000 miles? Few and far between. In the snow belt you cant ride them in the snow or when it's 20 below zero, so it limits use mainly to late spring thru early fall, which limits the miles per YEAR you can put on it as does the 30 mph speed. Plus they were designed for mainly in town, short commute trips, not driving 500 miles one way to visit aunt Bessie for Thanksgiving dinner. 30,000 miles would take a long time to accumulate on a 49 cc scooter, meanwhile, you can totally replace a 139QMB engine for around $325 with a brand new one which is a real bargain when you think about what's there. The guy was ragging on about how his friend's CVT belt shreaded and damaged his clutch etc after "only" 4,400 miles of driving, I suggested his friend should have done some BASIC maintenance like inspecting things like belts periodically, and he gets all kind of worked up about how he doesn't have that kind of free time to spend tearing into things every week or whatever to inspect. So I said, your friend sounds like the sort of guy who NEVER checks the radiator hoses or batetry age on their car untill the hoses blow on the road or the battery quits late some snowy night far from home because it's 6-8 years old and had it. I further said, how hard IS it to remove 8 little bolts, pull the cover off and LOOK at the belt?? it takes 10, 15 minutes tops, do it after 500 miles and if it looks fine, do it at 1500 miles, and when you see evidence of fraying or wear, that's when you REPLACE it, but letting it go for 4,400 miles till it breaks on the road and damages some other part is just plain STUPID. The guy's video is basically titled something like "This is why you should never buy a Chinese scooter" and he shows the belt and damage, it's all black in the case and lots of powdery crud, it's been going bad for a LONG time and he never bothered to pop the cover off and inspect something that gets as much wear and tear as that little thin belt gets. I also said the Honda and the rest of them all use the very SAME CVT system with a belt, and that he should have gotten a kevlar belt to begin with. I took my CVT cover off the other day and looked, it was in mint condition inside there at 325 km with the original belt. I'll be checking it again at maybe 1,000 km. People also don't think of things like rubber falling apart from age, even tires not being used have a shelf life of around 6 years, the rubber starts to break down at the chemical level from exposure to oxygen, and in the case of tires- sunlight. EVen if the scooter sits in a garage, the rubber is aging every day, tires, hoses, belt. I saw that video (looks like a white 150 paparazzi?) . Apparently he believes if you buy a "name brand" $cooter your belts will NEVER break! |
|
|
|
Post by timber on Apr 4, 2012 20:54:25 GMT -5
I saw that video (looks like a white 150 paparazzi?) . Apparently he believes if you buy a "name brand" $cooter your belts will NEVER break! LOL you saw that one too? it was real black and nasty in that CVT case, and obvious he NEVER checked the belt ever. 4,400 miles is a lot of revolutions and wear on that thin little strip of rubber, and every time you start out it generates the most wear, but the thing is squeezed between the spring loaded disks all the time, and rubbing on them every time you change speed and so on. I'm amazed they last as long as they DO frankly. |
|
|
|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 4, 2012 21:15:52 GMT -5
great question i never get tired of pondering when i read and hear the hate. i really don't know but i think its personal
firstly the nature of the business and its business model is inherently going to leave some people very dissatisfied. if a scooter doesn't run properly, lacks a proper PDI, is delivered in shody condition, or sometimes needs something as simple as a carb adjustment or new starter switch some people are just left scratching their heads? they won't ride it, paid just $800 for it....screw it, they figure. its just junk. and this might not be true
other times it is. even if less times then more, people will come to this and any other forum and scream china scoot hate if they get a clunker. i don't know why as if they had done a bit of reading B4 hand they would have understood there sub $1000 scoot from china delivered to their doorstep could very well be good and reliable, a bit of a project, or a mess. if you understand this going in chances are you will get what you pay for. and if it is a problem scoot you will already know what to do with it
a guy on the board is parting out a BMS Pathfinder that crapped out at 745 miles.he treated it good, made a video journal of his riding and upgrades, very cool stuff. imagine his disappointment when it went to hell at under 1000 miles. will he bad mouth all chinese scooters from now on? maybe? but the fact is he knew what he was buying and is making the most of it from beginning to end! the bike is completely stripped and may even make him a bit of money back, if not all of it. so if a buyer feels burned don't hate....take action! you know what you bought, right? you should have
FUD marketing from mainstream makers. FEAR, UNCERTAINTY, DOUBT. cast all those things on potential buyers and spread bad rumors and half truths about the scoots. it works. thing is people can see right through it. i hope. are these cheap scooters great? no. are they dangerous junk, each and every one of them? no, of course not. but non-chinese dealers and customers will say so. this spreads the hate even more
"scooter snobs" that wouldn't be caught dead on a china scoot. hey a-holes no one knows who you are under teh helmet lol
and of course politics. people who can't tolerate anything MADE IN CHINA. forget the fact they are sitting on a chair made there and typing on a keyboard made there as they post their political tirades
i always tell people the truth about the scooters as i see it. not the best built, not the most durable. but for the money with a good pdi and some maintenance a chinese scooter could give you your monies worth and more. its just how much do you think your $1000 is worth?
|
|
|
|
Post by getwheel on Apr 5, 2012 0:57:52 GMT -5
I think if you're not mechanically inclined, Chinese scoots can seem daunting. I'm certainly feeling some of that with the PDI. But, like doomsday I can't understand the super-high prices for motorcycles and scoots, especially models which are really yesterday's technology- and have no airbags, crumple zones, etc. etc. The Vespas look really nice- but the prices are outrageous!! So, I bit the bullet- bought a China Scoot and guess what?- Even if I need to have a mechanic look it over, it's still vastly less than even a Honda or whatnot.
Perhaps I'll make the leap someday if the price or product is right- But I think this is a good way of starting out with Scooters, as long as you understand what needs to be done.
|
|
