|
Post by PasoDoble on Apr 12, 2012 15:47:15 GMT -5
It is indeed and nothing less but impressive in a short span since the end of Mao Tse Tung's feared era, with no room spared for failures, a rigid regime with their discipline and certainly no breathing space for Union Stewards to mess up trade & business prospects with personal agendas... it'll be the death sentence if found guilty. I was there two years ago, both in Beijing and Shanghai and what a sight with their enterprising growth. The Bund, in Shanghai is a good place for dining and enjoying the city night life.
|
|
|
Post by silentwarrior on Apr 12, 2012 17:26:26 GMT -5
By jove... u're not silent on that score...hehehhh ;D I NEVER HOLD MY TONGUE PASO people who think they are better than me and my china scoot cause they have a kimshi brand or a honda or w/e my lil china girl will outlast theirs, we go faster,STOCK, than they do i do PM ,i take care of anything i buy, when you born without crap and have to struggle in life to attain what you want. You take care of it. do i come on line and say IM IN MENSA pfffttttttt mensa shmensa i am no better than you--and by god you are no way better than me just sayin.......................... my 2 cents i think right there^^^^^^^ i say i am no better that you--and by god you are no way better than me
|
|
|
Post by Smoak-Eater on Apr 13, 2012 16:36:08 GMT -5
Why do rolex wearers scoff at cheap knock-offs? why do prada wearers hate on the fake copy prada wearers? The "hater's" hate for only a few simple reasons. first, because if something looks like something else, but it is way cheaper, it's obviously junk. In their eyes... A copy.. A fake.. No one wants to but a rolex only to find out that it has timex guts in it! That is the mentality here with haters. That's why you get the hate. Now there are people that will tell you not to buy a Chinese bike because you will be doing a lot of work on it, it has inferior parts, etc. that is basically true. You will have to work on it, and a clone of a clone engine will not last as long as "the original." It doesn't matter if the parts will match up, materials makes a difference. Cast aluminum is different than pot metal, is different than solid CNC cut parts. that can't be denied. Mostly "hater's" just don't like the fact that there is a "copy" of their bike running around that cost 1/4 the price. I have traditionally been a Jab-bike guy. I like the old school bikes. Honda CB's, Zuki GS, and Kawi KZ's.. I can't ride those anymore, I wish I could. I can tell you that I turned down nearly even trades on my last GS with more "up to date" bikes because mine cranked every time, I could work on it, and I got tired of hearing from riding buddies telling me their new "fly by wire" messed up, so they were missing a weekend ride. So, call me a hater of newer bikes, because all the electronics scare me. Call Chinese bike haters "haters" because the thought of actually working on one scares them. that is what it boils down to. Hop on and ride is what they want, anything else is inferior. I can tell you this. I just got my china bike...(sorry, I just hate the word "scooter") I got it because I am learning to ride again after loosing both legs below the knees. If I lay this bike over, I am not out much. If I laid over and slid 50' on a newer Jap bike, I'm out A BUNCH. and no one has yet to crack on me buying a China bike, much less a "scooter." why? Because they are amazed a guy with no legs is riding a bike with only TWO wheels Rolex>Bolex Prada>Pirada Zuki>Kawi>Honda>Yami>HD That is just how we think. Or for the bikes above, that's how i think.. Don't even get me started on HD. Ever been hit with a HD bolt from the guy's bike in front of you doing 60 mph? I have... It was a Hog. I will never own one. Never Ever. I can't afford to buy locktite by the gallon
|
|
|
Post by PasoDoble on Apr 13, 2012 16:46:36 GMT -5
......I can't afford to buy locktite by the gallon Good to have you in here Smoak and I like that thinking of yours....
|
|
|
Post by qwertydude on Apr 13, 2012 19:32:57 GMT -5
The hatred is simply because most people have entirely given up on working with their hands. How many people do you know who don't even know how to check and add oil to their cars?
It's not that Chinese made products are really THAT inferior, honestly they're about at the same level as 1970's technology. Try riding an AMF Harley, truly you can't say that that Harley is any better than a Chinese scooter.
The big difference is that Chinese scooter dealers themselves probably don't even ride. I know several dealers in my area, none ride to work, and they have no excuse not to being in Southern CA. So with that level of confidence in their own product, why would I trust that they hire a competent tech to set up their bikes? Therefore any mistakes in the set up of the bike in the US translates to, China is the worst junkiest stuff around. Anger to no end, boycotting all things Chinese, and not eating at Panda Express.
I've only had one problem with a Chinese scooter, it was a lemon to begin with but it wouldn't have been a problem if the dealer hadn't messed up on the repairs and stripped an engine case thread and tried to hide the error, because that would have meant a costly engine replacement, well not that costly, a 150cc engine certainly should be worth the loyalty and good word of a customer, but sadly no. And I don't blame China either, a lemon could get through here and there happens to all manufacturers. But it's the service you should at least expect with a new vehicle.
But all in all China is getting a bad rap mostly because people are riding that really shouldn't be riding. China just lets these knuckleheads do it for a lower price. Basically you're paying a low price, don't expect too much, and DO expect to do it yourself.
|
|
|
Post by spandi on Apr 13, 2012 20:07:30 GMT -5
The hatred is simply because most people have entirely given up on working with their hands. How many people do you know who don't even know how to check and add oil to their cars? It's not that Chinese made products are really THAT inferior, honestly they're about at the same level as 1970's technology. Try riding an AMF Harley, truly you can't say that that Harley is any better than a Chinese scooter. The big difference is that Chinese scooter dealers themselves probably don't even ride. I know several dealers in my area, none ride to work, and they have no excuse not to being in Southern CA. So with that level of confidence in their own product, why would I trust that they hire a competent tech to set up their bikes? Therefore any mistakes in the set up of the bike in the US translates to, China is the worst junkiest stuff around. Anger to no end, boycotting all things Chinese, and not eating at Panda Express. I've only had one problem with a Chinese scooter, it was a lemon to begin with but it wouldn't have been a problem if the dealer hadn't messed up on the repairs and stripped an engine case thread and tried to hide the error, because that would have meant a costly engine replacement, well not that costly, a 150cc engine certainly should be worth the loyalty and good word of a customer, but sadly no. And I don't blame China either, a lemon could get through here and there happens to all manufacturers. But it's the service you should at least expect with a new vehicle. But all in all China is getting a bad rap mostly because people are riding that really shouldn't be riding. China just lets these knuckleheads do it for a lower price. Basically you're paying a low price, don't expect too much, and DO expect to do it yourself. China bikes aside, why, if you live in So-Cal would you ride a big hulking suv in a place where the weather is so beautiful and gas so expensive?
|
|
|
Post by cliftonc on Apr 13, 2012 22:00:55 GMT -5
Smoak-Eater-Eater; Gotcha brother. I have been commented at because I have handicapped plates on my scooters, but when I get off the scoot, I am just as limited! Folk I suppose just think that gimps should not be allowed to have fun... I, too, am a BBK (for those not familiar with the parlance, that is Bilateral Below Knee) and increasing degenerative disease in my hips and knees makes it slowly but surely harder to walk. Ah well, when I can't leg it any more, I'll trike! ;D BTW, my dad was a third-generation firefighter. Noble calling. See my new foots! www.flickr.com/photos/32843477@N00/6929368480/in/set-72157629811437109/
|
|
|
Post by Smoak-Eater on Apr 13, 2012 23:03:43 GMT -5
Smoak-Eater-Eater; Gotcha brother. I have been commented at because I have handicapped plates on my scooters, but when I get off the scoot, I am just as limited! Folk I suppose just think that gimps should not be allowed to have fun... I, too, am a BBK (for those not familiar with the parlance, that is Bilateral Below Knee) and increasing degenerative disease in my hips and knees makes it slowly but surely harder to walk. Ah well, when I can't leg it any more, I'll trike! ;D BTW, my dad was a third-generation firefighter. Noble calling. See my new foots! www.flickr.com/photos/32843477@N00/6929368480/in/set-72157629811437109/ Sweet! Are those Freds Legs laminate? I can't laminate mine, I have Harmony P3 on both sides, so I use sleeves.. But, I do have blue lightning bolt over-sleeves! I get looks! lol I don't use handicapped tags, one of the things I push myself on. I park in regular spots and just walk like everyone else. I would hate to take that last parking spot that someone wheelchair bound could really use, ya know? The day I can't hold up a bike is the day I hang it all up. I hate trikes. I'll just start buying off road 4-wheelers and play in the dirt. If I cant lean and knee drag around a curve, I don't wanna ride it on the pavement Also, the first person to heckle me over a China bike will probably get to tell the story for years afterward about the arse whooping they got from "that guy with no legs on the Chinese PoS" ;D
|
|
|
Post by cliftonc on Apr 14, 2012 2:20:07 GMT -5
Also, the first person to heckle me over a China bike will probably get to tell the story for years afterward about the arse whooping they got from "that guy with no legs on the Chinese PoS" ;D [chuckle] Yep. Those aren't Fred's; I have Fred's flame sleeves for my "old" set, but these are the carbon fiber sockets, and the prosthetist told me if I wanted a pattern, just bring him some cotton material, and they would gelcoat it in. I got that at a fabric shop down the street. I walk with a cane or two canes depending on whether it is a good day or bad day, but I have more bad days as time goes on. I would take the trike - my Silver Wing is becoming more of an issue, and I am trying to put away for a Tow-Pac kit for it (which would make it a quad, actually), but I seem to handle the small scooters very well so far. Getting old and broke down ain't for sissies. Diabetes gave me amputations, and a viral infection gave me congestive heart failure, and I have an even chance of keeling over any day, but I will ride and have fun as long as I can...
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on Apr 18, 2012 9:50:47 GMT -5
I have a Saga 250cc that I just purchased the other day. It seems to be working fine for me and came with a two year warranty. I'm not a mechanic, so I personally would never buy something like this out of the box that I had to assemble. But I do know that there were not any more left anywhere here in Canada and that when other dealers found out that I was getting the last one, they wanted the dealer that I was purchasing from to hold it for them because they are in demand!. it works fine for me, except I notice a slight wobble when I get above 80k's. But the dealer that i bought it from also told me to just bring it back in and he would put some dynobeads or something like that in it! I don't know why all the hate either. Everything has it's good and bad; dentist, attorneys, gyneochologist, scooters! That's life. Do your homework, get a warranty and drive safely!
|
|
|
Post by justpassinthru on Apr 18, 2012 10:13:35 GMT -5
Why do rolex wearers scoff at cheap knock-offs? why do prada wearers hate on the fake copy prada wearers? The "hater's" hate for only a few simple reasons. first, because if something looks like something else, but it is way cheaper, it's obviously junk. In their eyes... A copy.. A fake.. No one wants to but a rolex only to find out that it has timex guts in it! That is the mentality here with haters. The problem with that analogy is that a Rolex owner did NOT buy that thing to tell TIME. A Tracfone cell-phone will do that, and more accurately. He bought it for other reasons. Now...the Chinese products are "copies" of other models, true. Or, more accurately, they're the result of other makers selling designs and tooling for products they no longer wish to make. The result (in theory) is a less expensive product for a budget-minded buyer. Of course, since the maker of the clone is itself inexperienced and is working with underskilled and sometimes unwilling, sometimes forced-labor, help...there will be quality problems. But...is the Chinese item a "copy" and thus to be spurned? Henry Ford...took the expensive cars of his day; boiled them down to their essence, and called it the Model T. Instead of skilled mechanics assembling them, he set up a moving assembly line, so that unskilled labor could do one task, over and over again, at the same place. Hang the fender...hang the fender.... The result was a car that cost a fifteeth of what the typical new car of the era cost; and did most of what those pricer items do. So, too, the Chinese clones. There is nothing wrong with Japanese obsoleted designs except that customers are tired of them and potential sales volume is down. But to sell for less than one-third of the price, albeit with some quality questions....opens up new markets for old designs.
|
|
|
Post by spandi on Apr 18, 2012 10:23:49 GMT -5
Why do rolex wearers scoff at cheap knock-offs? why do prada wearers hate on the fake copy prada wearers? The "hater's" hate for only a few simple reasons. first, because if something looks like something else, but it is way cheaper, it's obviously junk. In their eyes... A copy.. A fake.. No one wants to but a rolex only to find out that it has timex guts in it! That is the mentality here with haters. The problem with that analogy is that a Rolex owner did NOT buy that thing to tell TIME. A Tracfone cell-phone will do that, and more accurately. He bought it for other reasons. Now...the Chinese products are "copies" of other models, true. Or, more accurately, they're the result of other makers selling designs and tooling for products they no longer wish to make. The result (in theory) is a less expensive product for a budget-minded buyer. Of course, since the maker of the clone is itself inexperienced and is working with underskilled and sometimes unwilling, sometimes forced-labor, help...there will be quality problems. But...is the Chinese item a "copy" and thus to be spurned? Henry Ford...took the expensive cars of his day; boiled them down to their essence, and called it the Model T. Instead of skilled mechanics assembling them, he set up a moving assembly line, so that unskilled labor could do one task, over and over again, at the same place. Hang the fender...hang the fender.... The result was a car that cost a fifteeth of what the typical new car of the era cost; and did most of what those pricer items do. So, too, the Chinese clones. There is nothing wrong with Japanese obsoleted designs except that customers are tired of them and potential sales volume is down. But to sell for less than one-third of the price, albeit with some quality questions....opens up new markets for old designs. Two points: 1) Chinese quality is rising fairly quickly. 2) They're beginning to come out with their own designs. (let them hate all they want, just ask the Japanese about the early days in America.)
|
|
|
Post by rockie on Apr 18, 2012 13:25:47 GMT -5
My dream scooter is a 500cc Aprilia. Can't afford it, so I've settled for a cheap Chineese scoot. It is doing much better than the skeptics said it would. I am pleased with it. So instead of waiting till I can buy what I really want, (it'll be a long time and maybe never) I can ride now, thanks to the Chineese scooter.
|
|
|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 19, 2012 15:50:11 GMT -5
Some of the hatred also comes from some who see posts like many itt which claim people wasted their money buying a nice refined machine like a Vespa, a high quality Honda, or a limited edition performance scooter like my Genuine Blackjack (which i paid $2500 for, used) and would compare a $1000 no name scooter to them as just as good. This is simply not true. And "for the price" does not change what a scooter is or isn't. Some people care a little about quality from top to bottom. And a warranty and service. And build quality. Which sucks on every single chinese 150 I have rode. They are made like a '86 Hyundai, for the most part. Shake, rattle, roll. I ride everyday....i can live without all that. A chinese scooter is a long way from being this. And that is why I paid $2500 for one and not $1000 for a Znen. These scooters will run tens of thousands of miles with little and no fuss or problems if cared for with minimal maintenance. That is a fact. And they are solid as a rock in build quality. The Chinese don't have anything like it. www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/video/Genuine-Scooter-Companys-Buddy-Black-Jack-150/1200889So don't say "my clone is the same as" and less hate will come. Just be honest.
|
|
|
Post by larrym on Apr 19, 2012 19:26:08 GMT -5
Some of the hatred also comes from some who see posts like many itt which claim people wasted their money buying a nice refined machine like a Vespa, a high quality Honda, or a limited edition performance scooter like my Genuine Blackjack (which i paid $2500 for, used) and would compare a $1000 no name scooter to them as just as good. This is simply not true. And "for the price" does not change what a scooter is or isn't. Some people care a little about quality from top to bottom. And a warranty and service. And build quality. Which sucks on every single chinese 150 I have rode. They are made like a '86 Hyundai, for the most part. Shake, rattle, roll. I ride everyday....i can live without all that. A chinese scooter is a long way from being this. And that is why I paid $2500 for one and not $1000 for a Znen. These scooters will run tens of thousands of miles with little and no fuss or problems if cared for with minimal maintenance. That is a fact. And they are solid as a rock in build quality. The Chinese don't have anything like it. www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/video/Genuine-Scooter-Companys-Buddy-Black-Jack-150/1200889So don't say "my clone is the same as" and less hate will come. Just be honest. Thank u,, my sentiments exactly
|
|
|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 19, 2012 20:17:37 GMT -5
Yes, and its not because i have a bias against chinese scooters and don't think they are a good value for many. Also generic clone scoots from china is what i speak of. Some up and comers with real design and engineering ambition such as CFMoto are doing a good job of improving things. And apparently quality is improving overall. But it is my firm belief that if a scooter is GOOD enough to charge $2000-$3000 for a 125cc even the chinese will ask that. They aren't in the business of doing us scooterist any favors, and everyone loves a nice profit. Maximum. And when a person buys a $1000 scoot sold like its just a GREAT deal and WHY PAY MORE and it breaks, they get pissed. And rightly so.
Again, I would own and ride a chinese clone scooter. But I need something that starts and goes every day, and multiple times. Will I have a problem sooner or later? Sure. But do i need to carry tools, extra spark plug, adjust my valves every 2000 miles, rebuild / swap the carb, fix electrical gremlins, have stuff breaking off the scooter and feel like my teeth are rattling outta my head when i ride over bumps? No, I don't need to do any of that. And my scooters are my only transport. If I breakdown or the scoot goes to crap one day I might lose a job and some work and lots of money.
Those are things I don't need. So I spend a bit more for peace of mind and dependability. And quality, of course. Which doesn't mean it has to be a Vespa or Honda. But nor does it need to be something I need tend to all the time with a wrench.
I do my own maintenance. But really there is not much to do. I change my oil and filters and ride. I know some with China scoots have the same experience. But seldom for 30,000 miles++ like many who paid more, and indeed did not pay too much. They got exactly what they paid for. And they knew what it was going in.
|
|
|
Post by texas on Apr 26, 2012 6:45:53 GMT -5
What it comes down to is the skill of the owner. Some backyard mechanics could build a bicycle with a motor that would outrun these 3000.00 dollar scooters. So if a person has no skills he should buy the warranty, I mean higher priced scooter. But some people who have the skills do not fear the possibilty of maintaining these scooters. Sure I would trade you my China bike for your Vespa, but the china bike has a place in the scooter world too. P.S. Had my Tao tao 9 months 3000 miles after PDI no problems.
|
|
|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 26, 2012 8:25:50 GMT -5
no, it does not come down to skill of the owner. things improve, some things are made and built better then others. i don't pay for a warranty. i pay for a scooter that is reliable, and dependable. because that is what i need. one that will run with nothing but oil changes for thousands of miles. even if i had the skill, i haven't the time or interest to indulge a hobby like fixing scooters i do all my own basic maintenance, but not repair. and that vespa you speak of is not $5,500 because of its warranty. but yes, the internet scooter does have its place in the market. and it's a good place but i haven't many tools. for $3000 in a 125cc scooter a person shouldn't need many. and so far my lack of skill but appreciation of quality has paid off of course anyone can keep anything running for as long as you want. even a Yugo. but, is it really worth it, and would you really want to? a good scooter should outlast its engine, just like a good car. but because a small scooter engine has a shorter natural life (40,000m, for instance) a person should have very little problem with it, or the rest of the scooter in that life. if, you pay for a name brand. thats what we pay for. build quality, aesthetics, over all quality, and a scooter like this: or this: or even this: now, that is not to say a chinese company isn't capable, and we know the workers are, as that Honda is made in china. but the fact is that is not what the chinese are doing atm. it is hard to lay it bare without it sounding like an insult to owners, because it is not. but the fact remains you get what you pay for in this regard, and an internet scooter is a cheap scooter, cheaply made. and thats great! for what it is. many of us here have experience with both. i park next to internet scooters a few days a week. they seem to run is the most i can say for them, having rode a few in the last couple years. and so if thats all that matters, i guess thats ok. for some of us its somewhat more involved however, just as it is for many. but that involvement doesn't require a lot of "wrenching," is all
|
|
|
Post by larrym on Apr 26, 2012 17:54:53 GMT -5
I paid more so i can go out in the morning turn the key hit the start button and ride to work . and spend my free time riding or doing other things i enjoy and not fixing a scooter that was built in a toy factory
|
|
|
Post by bigphillip79 on Apr 27, 2012 0:44:12 GMT -5
It's not that I hate Chinese scooters. Fact is I like them. I pretty much like all scooters. Would I buy one before a Japanese scooter? No. Would I recommend them to anyone looking to get into scootering? No. Well maybe a cfmoto. For what a new crated cheap Chinese scoot costs I can get a used low mileage maintained Japanese scoot and ride worry free for years with maintainence. After 20 years my fuel and vaccum lines are serviceable on my helix. My drive belt lasted 23000 miles. I put 12000 miles on it the first year i had it and it was a 19 yr old machine with 13000 miles when i started with it. Not too many "cheap internet scoots" gonna do that. To have to do a tear down and inspection and replace a bunch of stuff on a new out of the box machine is ridiculous and a clue to the care given to quality at manufacturing. I would buy one to play around with but not as a primary mode of transportation and not new. I would get one for cheap that someone has given up on and there are tons out there.
Park a Japanese original and its Chinese clone next to each other and look at them. The quality difference is obvious in look and feel. That can't be denied. The Honda helix and the cfmoto fashion is a good example. They look the same but the helix is an obvious better quality. The helix was made to 2007 and you can get a used one for around 2,500 to 3000. A new fashion cost about the same but will not give the same service life and cfmoto is probably the best of the chinese stuff.
And what's with all the talk about "if you buy a big name scoot you have to pay big prices for mechanic work?" whether a person has a Chinese or Japanese or Italian scoot doesn't make a difference on that. After warranty if a person is mechanically capable they will probably do their own work. If not they have to take it in to get worked on and pay for it. I do all my own work on all my bikes and not one is Chinese. They're all old except my wife's burgman and I can garuantee they need less attention than any Chinese scoot= more time for riding and Xbox for me
|
|
|
Post by revweasel on Apr 27, 2012 8:21:59 GMT -5
china does sell 90% of the cheap falling, apart before it gets to your door products we buy. They also sell 90% of the other high quality products that we use. everything comes from there. good and bad. if anybody tells you always, never, all or none when describing things, they have their own agenda.
|
|
|
Post by dkw12002 on Apr 27, 2012 21:09:09 GMT -5
If someone is mechanically inclined, then sure a Chinese scooter makes sense, but there are a lot of stories about people who buy a Chinese scooter and it runs for 300 miles, then has problems that they cannot fix and cannot find anyone to fix. My neighbor is one of those people. Parts may be cheap, but labor is not, and for that reason, many shops do not want to deal with a cheap scooter. You can easily put more labor into fixing a scooter than it is worth if you have to pay to have it fixed. Plus while it is being fixed you cannot ride. Locally, I can buy and get all the major brands of scooters with a real 1 year warranty. If I buy a Chinese scooter it comes in a box and I would kind of be on your own. I certainly don't hate Chinese scooters, but I am willing to pay more for a brand that I know will run well when I take delivery and if I develop problems there is someone to fix it. Chinese scooters work best for do-it-yourselfers. That's a good thing, but not for everyone. Part of the trashing of Chinese scooters comes from the other dealers too. They want to sell their own brands.
|
|
|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 29, 2012 14:46:35 GMT -5
yeah, i also don't want to give the impression i "hate" internet scoots. in fact i rather like them, and would own one. which is why i feel a little bad in discussion to finally just say "they're made cheap!" because, so what? stating the obvious. and i do recommend them to people with all the realities and possibilities included. but for $800 -$1400...go for it! i'd ride one. and if they ever build a sleeker 250cc i will be there. something like the Aprillia Scarabeo 500cc, but with a 250cc or 300cc in it. get it to me for $2000 and hell yeahs! but what i won't do is tell others "just like an Aprillia" or "why pay more" or whatever, if they ask. i will let them know about both bikes. hell some people buy Italian and curse the day they did if they get one with those infamous "electrical gremlins." then they'd be like "YOU TOLD ME TO SPEND $3000 MORE ON THIS ITALIAN POS I SHOULD HAVE ORDERED OFF THE INTERNET!!!" if you want a nicer scooter spend more, I guess might be the best thing to say? if people cannot figure how it's "nicer" well, good luck to them but i don't understand the hatred, no. i mean for one if you spend too much on an internet scooter, do your research first and you won't. also, if you spend give or take $1000 and it doesn't work out "so what. took my chances" would be more the right attitude, rather then decrying ALL internet scoots. it was cheap to buy, now part it out. be resourceful but there seems a divide among riders. some with internet scoots say "just as good." not true. others say "all internet scoots are a pos." not true. i think some might get offended if i say 'internet scoots are built cheap, and so are cheap.' so i will try not to say it again. on the other hand i may take offense when some say "you wasted your money. MINE cost 3 times less and is just as good!" again, not true. so, why all the hate? idk...haters hate. but i say "can't we all just get along"
|
|
|
Post by revweasel on Apr 30, 2012 21:12:36 GMT -5
i enjoy riding my china scooter. i enjoy working on my china scooter. you can hate me enjoying it, and i wont enjoy it any less.
this is just the ford/chevy argument... in all reality who gives a rats ass. if someone likes it let them. quit trying to piss on everyone parade. just because you bought the lobster tail doesnt mean i am allowed to enjoy my tuna any less.
|
|
|
Post by qwertydude on Apr 30, 2012 22:39:38 GMT -5
They say you enjoy your food more if you prepare it. Same can be said with Chinese scoots and PDI's. You'll enjoy it more if you prepare your bike.
|
|
|
Post by mymomwantsatrike on Apr 30, 2012 23:49:07 GMT -5
well you see. now i feel poopty. would i like my Blackjack more if i PDI'd it? maybe i would? i guess i'll never know what i am missing!
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on May 1, 2012 4:45:16 GMT -5
I guess some people feel they were burned when they buy a $1,500 Chinese 150 instead of the $1,900 Italian bike and then have to spend another $400+ in time and money to get it running right so they still end up paying the $1,900 in cash or in the equivalent of their personal time and end up with a bike that is still not going to give them the service and value of the real thing.
I do not hate but do not feel that a Chineses clone especially from the lower tiers of makers is a good fit for someone who needs a daily commuter to get them reliably to work each and every day. I do not have on a rosey set of colored glasses and can admit that the lack of reliability with the Chinese bike I had before impacted my ability to get to work each and every day on time. I understand that many employers are really big on that.
You roll the dice and need to understand that especially with the lower end Chinese bikes the odds are not as good that you will get something reliable and that over time it may end up costing you more in lost time and repairs then if you bought a Japanese, Italian or Korean bike. In this economy how much is loosing you employment because you had unreliable transportation going to cost you?
My Chinese bike was a fun learning experience but it was not a good fit for me as a daily commuter. The Italian bike I ended up with only cost me a few hundred more than an upper tier Chinese bike and it has been 100% reliable with no missed or late work days and no lost time on the weekends. I was spend more than 1 evening a week and more than 1 weekend day dealing with issues with my previous bike. Ignition skip, heat cutout, sluggish fuel pumps, cracked castings, weak bearings, soft variator facings, monthly oil changes, valve adjustments every two months, failed electronics, bad starters, failed heads and the list did go on. It is a bit of a refreshment that it is all a distant memory and has been change the oil twice a year and then turn the key and go the rest of the time.
No hatred but honest recognition of my personal situation. Value is encompassed in more than just the original purchase price. John Maxwells rule of the price tag generally applies "Eventually you will have to pay the full price and the longer you put it off the more it will eventually cost you".
|
|
|
Post by texas on May 1, 2012 7:55:28 GMT -5
My china bike has cost me nothing extra due to a good and I might add free PDI . I do have the skills and I could tear the engine down if needed. When you buy the expensive scooter you are buying the warrenty and the name but you are still getting 75 % of it from China and don't even realise it. And your dealer and the manufacturer are laughing all the way to the bank with you $5000.00 but hey they do say thank you. If a person has the skill the labor is free and the parts are cheap, if you even need them. But I go farther and say that a China bike can be just as trouble free as your $5000.00 got the good name scooter. Ten million scooter riders in China can't be wrong! You don't have to keep up with the Jones's just be smarter.
|
|
|
Post by leo on May 1, 2012 8:21:57 GMT -5
i don't pay for a warranty. i pay for a scooter that is reliable, and dependable. you most certainly do pay for the warranty. in order to avoid warranty issues these manufactures use the highest quality parts they can find, even in places where a lower quality part will work just as well. of course this increases the purchase price, and THAT'S how you pay for the warranty. manufacterers, no matter who they are, WILL NOT give something for nothing. i don't either. mine can be found here: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=44594
|
|
|
Post by bigphillip79 on May 1, 2012 8:39:24 GMT -5
My china bike has cost me nothing extra due to a good and I might add free PDI . I do have the skills and I could tear the engine down if needed. When you buy the expensive scooter you are buying the warrenty and the name but you are still getting 75 % of it from China and don't even realise it. And your dealer and the manufacturer are laughing all the way to the bank with you $5000.00 but hey they do say thank you. If a person has the skill the labor is free and the parts are cheap, if you even need them. But I go farther and say that a China bike can be just as trouble free as your $5000.00 got the good name scooter. Ten million scooter riders in China can't be wrong! You don't have to keep up with the Jones's just be smarter. I know there are a lot of parts on my bikes from china. Thing is honda holds them to a higher standard than say, SunL or chang xiang or corporation. I gaurantee a honda reflex and chinese reflex clone don't have the same parts, even if they look the same. It's not where it's made that makes the difference, it's the quality standard it's held to. I don't know for certain but I doubt the Chinese are buying the same bikes as they build for export.
|
|