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Post by Gary on Oct 17, 2010 18:48:47 GMT -5
Joe - see my response in Cirnobyl's post. My guess is your stator is fine and the problem is with your blocking diode (aka heat sink rectifier). This is a cheap part to replace.
Gary
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Post by yoster on Oct 17, 2010 20:18:43 GMT -5
I believe it's something more than the diode. If the diode was acting up that badly it would either be stuck on (lights would always be on) or he'd have no light output at all when the scoot is running.
Joe - are you ABSOLUTELY SURE you've checked ALL wiring, fused, etc? You need to take off all the plastics and check ALL wires, including grounds.
Do not be discouraged over the RR; once you get the scooter going you'll be happy you have it.
Replacing the diode with a relay is only going to get you another .7 volts or so. Problem is, it sounds like you have no charge output at all... I REALLY think you have a bad fuse somewhere. The little red wired going to the battery with an in-line fuse. Have you replaced that? It can look good but still be bad. Check all your grounds?
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 10:41:42 GMT -5
I believe it's something more than the diode. If the diode was acting up that badly it would either be stuck on (lights would always be on) or he'd have no light output at all when the scoot is running. Joe - are you ABSOLUTELY SURE you've checked ALL wiring, fused, etc? You need to take off all the plastics and check ALL wires, including grounds. Do not be discouraged over the RR; once you get the scooter going you'll be happy you have it. Replacing the diode with a relay is only going to get you another .7 volts or so. Problem is, it sounds like you have no charge output at all... I REALLY think you have a bad fuse somewhere. The little red wired going to the battery with an in-line fuse. Have you replaced that? It can look good but still be bad. Check all your grounds? [/color] Yoster - I don't know if i mentioned this before, but the lights are always on. as soon as the key is turned, before i start the bike, they come on, but when the key is turned off, lights off. The 3 pole light switch on the right handle bar, that turns them off or switches which lights are on, has no control over them. Second, if the bike is still warm, And when it was wired to always be on, The fan turns on as soon as the key is turned, before starting. I don't know if this is also a diode indication. I have checked the inline fuses. I use a continuity tester to make sure power is getting to both sides. Where else? are there fuses hidden underneath or behind the other plastics When i replaced the Regulator, i noticed that the ground to the frame was bad. There was a lot of paint where the ground bolt landed on the frame. When i do electrical work, i always scratch the paint of the cans where i'm grounding them. So i scratched the paint off to get a solid connection on the scoot's frame Are there other places that it's grounded to the frame? >>Joe |
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Post by yoster on Oct 18, 2010 10:47:52 GMT -5
I get the feeling that the previous owner of this scooter did some strange things to it.
On that scooter, the only time the lights should be on is when it's running (hence the blocking diode). If the diode was replaced with a relay (which is what I did), then the lights act in the manner which you describe.
The fan will come on with key-on if the scooter is warm enough, that's normal.
There are two places you need to check in terms of fuses. The first is underneath the batter cover, in a little black box. Open it up and there will be some (4-6?) fuses in there. Those are not for the charging system though. The battery should have two red cables coming off it. One thicker cable, and one much smaller cable. Follow the smaller cable until it comes to a white plastic housing, with a fuse in it. Is that the fuse you checked? If you only checked the fuses under the black door thing, those are not responsible for charging.
Let me know what you find. Next step is to test the power output from the stator, then from the RR (this scooter has a full wave RR, the blocking diode is just a a one-way gate, for lack of a batter word). If those two items check out, then we know, for sure, we have a wiring problem somewhere.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 10:52:58 GMT -5
ok, I'm on it. I'll check it out, and let you know. Thanks Yoster....
>>>Joe
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Post by cuda62 on Oct 18, 2010 10:57:55 GMT -5
Yoster, Don't know if this will help, I am a Lance dealer> The most common problem I've seen with the Duke 250, you definitely want to grind the paint where all your grounds meet the frame. This was a big issue with all my Duke 250's. One other problem I had and it took me almost 2 weeks to discover it for the customer was one of the stator wires coming out of the engine had been knicked at the factory & was shorting out so the battery would not stay charged. Just calm down, there's a lot of knowledge on this site you'll get it figured out & be happy with your machine. Most of my customers have anywhere from 5000-15000 miles on their Duke 250's. Hope this information helps!
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Post by jggally on Oct 18, 2010 11:13:24 GMT -5
Yoster -
I don't know if i mentioned this before, but the lights are always on. as soon as the key is turned, before i start the bike, they come on, but when the key is turned off, lights off. The 3 pole light switch on the right handle bar, that turns them off or switches which lights are on, has no control over them.
>>JoeThe lights on both of my Duke 250s come on when the key is in the start position even when the engine has not been started, and the light switches only control low/high beam. AFAIK, that is the expected behavior and has not been a problem w/ my scoots. |
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Post by cuda62 on Oct 18, 2010 11:44:57 GMT -5
jggally is correct on the duke 250. when the key is on the lights are on.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 11:57:53 GMT -5
Yoster, Don't know if this will help, I am a Lance dealer> The most common problem I've seen with the Duke 250, you definitely want to grind the paint where all your grounds meet the frame. This was a big issue with all my Duke 250's. One other problem I had and it took me almost 2 weeks to discover it for the customer was one of the stator wires coming out of the engine had been knicked at the factory & was shorting out so the battery would not stay charged. Just calm down, there's a lot of knowledge on this site you'll get it figured out & be happy with your machine. Most of my customers have anywhere from 5000-15000 miles on their Duke 250's. Hope this information helps! one question. Is it typical in these bikes for the light control switch on right handlebar, not to function. All lights on? all the time? And second, thanks for the info, Im gonna check the wires from the stator for knicks/shorts and all other ground connections for paint and tightness. Do you know how many frame connections there are? either way, i will find them, I'm gonna go through all the wiring. Again, check every fuse, then test stator. I will let you know how this goes... >>>joe |
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Post by cuda62 on Oct 18, 2010 12:21:42 GMT -5
That switch on the right side on a duke does nothing. on the duke on right side rear body panel is all your grounds in one place. your stator will have 5 wires 3 yellow 1 blue 1green.the 3 yellows are the ones to check. each wire should have around 6 volts DC
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 13:31:16 GMT -5
I believe it's something more than the diode. If the diode was acting up that badly it would either be stuck on (lights would always be on) or he'd have no light output at all when the scoot is running. Joe - are you ABSOLUTELY SURE you've checked ALL wiring, fused, etc? You need to take off all the plastics and check ALL wires, including grounds. Do not be discouraged over the RR; once you get the scooter going you'll be happy you have it. Replacing the diode with a relay is only going to get you another .7 volts or so. Problem is, it sounds like you have no charge output at all... I REALLY think you have a bad fuse somewhere. The little red wired going to the battery with an in-line fuse. Have you replaced that? It can look good but still be bad. Check all your grounds? Well, checked the fuse in the white cap off the battery's skinny red wire. It's fine. Continuity thru. Grinded the paint on the ground connection. I'm also gonna replace the battery. It has an Energizer 9-bs. Should i replace with this one, or suggest something else? |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 14:30:01 GMT -5
That switch on the right side on a duke does nothing. on the duke on right side rear body panel is all your grounds in one place. your stator will have 5 wires 3 yellow 1 blue 1green.the 3 yellows are the ones to check. each wire should have around 6 volts DC  RR wires on left of connector, Stator wires on right
Smaller connector in the back on right side has blue and green wires coming from the stator.
The two blue and green wires coming from the stator are on the right side of the connector in the back. They connect to red and black wires (left) going up to the CDI unit, well, i think it's going to the CDI..It's hard to see in the pic, but there is actually a fourth yellow wire entering the yellow wire's connector, on the stator side. i don't know where that is going to.  In the above pic you can see the fourth yellow wrapping around in front. It goes into the stator/RR connector on the stator side. Form there, it goes left and up, along with two greens (from separate connector) from the ground terminal. All three go up and left. one green goes to some plug pictured below. The other green and yellow got up higher into a place i cant see. you can see them in the photo below(top of picture) i have to take some stuff off to get there.  I want to make sure im identifying these wires correctly. Thats how it explains it in my diagram i got. well kinda. The diagram does not show ALL the wires. here is a picture f the wiring diagram i got when i bought the bike. Its taken with my cell phone, but when i get my scanner hooked up, i will put a better image up here.    |
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Post by Gary on Oct 18, 2010 15:02:00 GMT -5
Joe -
Maybe you know but just in case, the engine needs to be running when you take the readings on the stator wires....
Gary
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 15:08:17 GMT -5
Joe - Maybe you know but just in case, the engine needs to be running when you take the readings on the stator wires.... Gary The engine was running when i tested |
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Post by cuda62 on Oct 18, 2010 15:30:35 GMT -5
the easiest way to check the yellow wires from the stator is while bike is running and leaving the stator pluged in the plug in or at the vlotage reg. it should be around 6vs to each wire the blue and green wire goes to the cdi box and makes the spark for ur plug
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Post by yoster on Oct 18, 2010 15:32:44 GMT -5
Ok, so on the three yellow stator wires, you checked them against eachother right? So you checked 1 to 2, 1 to 3, and 2 to 3? Doing that should give you like 30+V at each (or something like that).
Also, make sure the multimeter is set to AC volts, not DC volts. The RR converts the AC to DC. If you have it set to DC, you'll get those 0 readings.
Note: That 4th wire you see goes to the enricher/choke.
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Post by yoster on Oct 18, 2010 15:34:03 GMT -5
the easiest way to check the yellow wires from the stator is while bike is running and leaving the stator pluged in the plug in or at the vlotage reg. it should be around 6vs to each wire the blue and green wire goes to the cdi box and makes the spark for ur plug Can't do a full test like this. There's a chance that the coil on the stator going to the CDI is not shorted, while the one going to the three yellow wires is. Check the three wires against each other. Positive to one, negative to the other, all combinations, multimeter set to AC volts, scooter running. |
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Post by cuda62 on Oct 18, 2010 15:42:54 GMT -5
i just went back to the shop and tested one of my 08 duke 250 and with the bike running each of the3 yellow wires should be around 6.56-6.89 volts if ur getting that then the stator is good
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 16:02:28 GMT -5
the easiest way to check the yellow wires from the stator is while bike is running and leaving the stator pluged in the plug in or at the vlotage reg. it should be around 6vs to each wire the blue and green wire goes to the cdi box and makes the spark for ur plug Can't do a full test like this. There's a chance that the coil on the stator going to the CDI is not shorted, while the one going to the three yellow wires is. Check the three wires against each other. Positive to one, negative to the other, all combinations, multimeter set to AC volts, scooter running. Tested them all. From the stator - Tested all combinations between three yelow wires. All read the same; between (-.1) and (+.6v)It did the same jumping around before, but i thought it was because i wasn't holding the test leads securely. But this time, watching the test probes arc made me realize there actually was a small charge. But nothing near 30v. I have a very expensive meter, and you don't need to specify ac/dc, so i know it's reading correctly. From the RRAgain - all tested at 12v to ground, 0v between each other. Question? Am i supposed to rev the engine during this test. Please let me know. If that's the case, i have to call my neighbor to help me. |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 16:07:59 GMT -5
i just went back to the shop and tested one of my 08 duke 250 and with the bike running each of the3 yellow wires should be around 6.56-6.89 volts if ur getting that then the stator is good Cuda, i want to make sure I'm testing the same way. Did you test by first unplugging the stator/RR connector, Turning on the scooter, and then testing the voltages between connector terminals. on the stator side of the connector? three male prongs? And what voltage should i be getting off the RR side ? |
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Post by yoster on Oct 18, 2010 17:30:30 GMT -5
I strongly urge to post this on the other forum.. Anyway, never heard of a multimeter not requiring you to set AC/DC.. if so then that's pretty cool. Straight from my stator, I get way way over 12v on one of the combinations. That's part of the purpose of the Regulator.. to regulate it down to the correct voltage.. cuda62 - your numbers are incorrect. Voltage that low is not a functioning charging system. Either you have a setting wrong somewhere on your meter, or you're testing something different. Sounds like I'm going to have to get around to taking a video of this to show you guys  |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 18, 2010 17:51:36 GMT -5
A VIDEO WOULD BE GREAT !!! EVEN JUST SOME CELL PHONE PICTURES>>>LOL...
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Post by Gary on Oct 18, 2010 18:25:31 GMT -5
Yes, from what I recall, the voltage across each pair of stator wires should be like 30 volts AC, with the engine running and revved up a bit. The regulator then cuts this down to about 14.5 volts DC.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 21, 2010 14:56:41 GMT -5
I just talked to Mike from Lance Power Sports, parts department. He was an incredible help. Very friendly and informative. He told me it was the Stator. I'd been implying that on the forum from the beginning, but he knew right away. He told me that i was testing the stator correctly. I was only reading about (.6) volts, when i should in fact be reading about (30) volts.
The 12 volts I'm reading off the RR is because I'm still connected thru to the battery. It's fine and not an issue. Something i was worried about before.
I was able to order the exact parts i needed. And, he walked me through the step-by-step process of replacing the parts myself.
I've ordered the stator, I'm praying that I'll be riding this thing all over the place soon !! Thanks everyone for your help. It has been quite an experience, and i've learned a LOT !! lol... I'll let you all know how this goes. Hopefully be the end of this thread...lol
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Post by joethursday on Nov 4, 2010 12:41:27 GMT -5
Hello and welcome: 1) Do you have the CFmoto244cc engine or the Linhai 257cc? If the CFMoto, it has a weak RegulatorRectifier from the factory, almost every time. Check out the post on scooterdoc.com for more info. In general though, we've found that the stock RR BARELY keeps the scooter charged when the fan is OFF. When it's on however, you're going to have a drain. We've contacted a non-scooter supplier who custom makes Regulator Rectifiers and his replacements (they run about $100) have completely resolved our issues. If you have the Linhai, then there's something else going on. That version has a more robust charging system. If CFMoto, others will recommend changing lights to LED etc, but I guarantee you that until you resolve the stock Regulator Rectifier and replace with an actual Honda version or another from our other vendor (link below), you're going to continue to struggle with this issue. www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/VRRPM.html - you want the very bottom one on this page. ;D !! CHARGING ISUUE SOLVED !! ;D Thanks to everyone for all the help with this charging battle... End result - BAD STATORFor others to test easily... 1. Disconnect stator/magneto from the Regulator Rectifier. 2. Start the scooter 3. Test the AC voltage between two of the three yellow wires coming from the stator. Repeat until all possible combinations have been tested. ( 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 ) 4. There should be at least 30 volts between each pair of wires. Any less, you have a bad stator. Yoster - That Regulator Rectifier you told me to buy was WRONG...lol. After replacing with the one you recommended, you remember, there was no change in the issue. Then i replaced the stator, still no change...HOWEVER the voltage was now correct off the stator. So, this stator was good. This had the mechanics and myself really confused. besides the harness, there's nothing else to change really. Especially since i assured them that the RR was brand new and would not be the issue... They took the bike apart and went through the entire harness, no problems there. Then i had a thought, scary.... Why don't we try the original RR with the new stator, since changing it didn't solve anything, maybe there was no problems with it.... VOILà , Issue solved. It was that RR you had me buy that sent EVERYONE thru a very confusing loop.... and me out $100 bucks and loads of time....lol. No big deal, it's done now. I do appreciate all your help, don't get me wrong. I do not mean to offend you in any way, But just wanted you to know. |
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Post by joethursday on Nov 4, 2010 12:51:07 GMT -5
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Post by yoster on Nov 5, 2010 13:19:23 GMT -5
Glad you got it figured out! Second you posted those lower numbers at the stator (below 30v), i knew something was up there.
Sorry man, but you must have been sent the wrong RR! That RR I recommended has been used and tested here on the boards, ask around! It sounds to me like they either sent you the wrong one, or it was wired up incorrectly. I'd reach out to the company and bug them about it!! Again, we've already purchased it and tested it and have been through what you're experiencing many, many times.
Also, you will definitely want to get the correct one (or have it the guy at Oregon fix it). You got a charge, but you WILL have slow drain problems until you get the better RR up and running due to the radiator fan pulling more juice than the stock RR can output.
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Post by glenargo15018 on May 18, 2011 20:34:04 GMT -5
So what was the end result?
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Post by pchyland on Dec 2, 2011 20:06:47 GMT -5
Just a note of thanks to the previous contributors. The information helped me know how to easily test my magneto and rule it out as the culprit. I ordered and installed a new regulator and it worked just fine. I do suspect that the regulator failed, possibly due to my negligence. Instead of replacing a failing battery (would not hold a charge), just placed a jumpstart appliance in parallel. It was okay for about 3 month (at least 2000 miles), but eventually the battery in the jumper kit also failed and I think that overloaded the regulator. Hope this helps someone else.
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Post by noobzie on Jun 29, 2012 16:25:55 GMT -5
Ok so I am incredibly new to scooters. I have a duke touring 250 I was wondering if someone could post a tutorial on how to change out all the oils and such. I am not even sure where to begin so any help will be appreciated.
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