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Post by ootscoot on Oct 9, 2010 22:11:36 GMT -5
the duke 250 uses the cfmoto version engine (clone of the helix) with the vertical cylinder.
Clutch shudder is typical
If you smell gas, check the carb drain line as it can get punctured with extra weight on the seat...
The regulator is worth replacing as the battery won't charge well with stock.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 10, 2010 12:41:45 GMT -5
Hello all, Thanks for all the great advice. i was really shocked to see all the helpful responses so fast. I will definitely replace the regulator. Unfortunately, I'm already experiencing another problem. i tightened some connections on the wiring, and tried to give it a go. I would drive 2 miles or so and back to see how the battery was doing. I can usually tell by the blinkers beginning to fail that the battery is going dead. Problem was, about a mile away from the house, It started to overheat ! I didn't smell anything, but the water temp gauge was MAXED !  I had to pull over for 30 minutes and let it cool down enough to get back home. Why would it be overheating already? it's only got 107 miles. The oil is new and full; and the water is full. Anyone have some ideas please... Thanks |
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Post by yoster on Oct 10, 2010 20:09:24 GMT -5
Sounds like the scooter wasn't properly prepped by the original owner.
I would drain the coolant and fill with new prestone 50/50. The stuff it comes shipped with is junk.
While you're at it, change the engine oil and gear oil as well. I'll bet the previous owner didn't do that either. The stuff that comes in that engine is shipping oil; not for regular engine operation. Jut get any 10w-40 or 15w-40 motor oil for the engine, and 80w-90 gear oil for the gearcase. Fill the gearcase until it can't take anymore; fill the engine with about 3/4 quart. Check regularly using the dipstick while filling the engine oil to ensure you don't overfill.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 10, 2010 22:48:44 GMT -5
;D THANK YOU !!! ;D
i just changed the engine oil, gear oil, and the coolant. She rides nice and cool now. no overheating issues.... now for the regulator. Hopefully, soon I'll be riding for more than 40 minutes at a time without the battery dying. The fan is wired to run constantly, so i'm sure that's not helping....
Here are my only remaining "issues" with the Lance Duke Touring 250.
1. Battery won't charge while driving - I'm going to try the regulator rectifier like Yoster mentioned earlier.
2. Wiring Problems - The Light 3 way toggle switch on the right handle bar
( controls: (a)all lights off. (b)Location light, tail light, license light, meter light. (c)Head light, tail light, license light, meter light)
doesn't work. All the lights are just on all the time.
3. Scraping sound in the front wheel - I read somewhere else that this was actually a brake line scraping against the front wheel. Gonna check that out asap
4. The Mirrors - Need adjusting, but i've read that that's an easy fix
I appreciate all input from everyone. I am about as green as they come, as far as scooter mechanics go. So again, thank you. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.
Best regards,
Joe
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Post by joethursday on Oct 11, 2010 16:34:33 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me where the regulator rectifier is on the Duke 250, and how to change it out? I'm gonna purchase a better one today. I want to be able to ride longer without fear of having to be towed home....
I used 80/90 for the gear oil. I couldn't find 10/40 in gear oil. Now i see that post about 10/30 gear oil at wallmart, I'm gonna change it out. ASAP
However, I'm not looking forward to disassembling and replacing the chrome cover again
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Post by yoster on Oct 11, 2010 17:17:30 GMT -5
Don't concern yourself with such threads; they'll waste your time, trust me. 10w-40 or 15w-40 are fine. No one has ruined an engine from it's use. Many 10k+ mile scooter owners on this board have used conventional, regular over the counter dino 10w-40 oil since they got the scooter with no ill affect. People will argue this oil thing until they're blue in the face. Take it from me and just ignore those threads. It's all opinion-based, which doesn't really help anyone solve any problems. [EDIT] Realized you're referring to gear lube, sorry about that! Anyway, same idea applies. Keep it simple and go with the 80w-90 gear oil. |
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Post by yoster on Oct 11, 2010 17:21:27 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me where the regulator rectifier is on the Duke 250, and how to change it out? I'm gonna purchase a better one today. I want to be able to ride longer without fear of having to be towed home....I used 80/90 for the gear oil. I couldn't find 10/40 in gear oil. Now i see that post about 10/30 gear oil at wallmart, I'm gonna change it out. ASAP However, I'm not looking forward to disassembling and replacing the chrome cover again This is a perfect example of how threads about oil can confuse people  You WANT 80/90 for the gear oil. Don't go putting 10/30 gear oil in your rear-end. First, I don't even think it exists, and second, those people aren't putting 10/30 gear oil in the rear, they're putting 10/30 ENGINE oil in the rear (which actually does decently enough in these scooters due to their simple design in the gearcase). Just leave your 80/90 gear oil in the gearcase; you'll be fine. If you used that as engine oil, then that would be a different story. Here's a recommendation that's going to freak a few people out on this forum, but, you don't need to change that gear oil often. Some here change it every 1k miles.. do not trouble yourself. The gears in that gearbox are of SUCH a simple design, the life-cycle of that oil is going to be incredible. I'd change it out once a year for kicks, but quite honestly, you could change it out every 5k miles and be more than fine. While you're in break-in mode, you could change it again at 500 miles (I don't think it's necessary, but it's easy enough to do). I wouldn't touch it after that for at least a few thousand miles. Don't apply this logic to engine oil though. Change every few hundred miles until you hit 1k miles, then change it every 1k after that. For future knowledge, the viscosity of gear oil and engine oil cannot be compared side by side. I.e.: A 50 weight motor oil does not equal the viscosity of 50 weight gear oil. If you want some solid oil that you can have confidence in but won't break the bank, I highly recommend the Wal-Mart Supertech 15w-40 for the engine, and the Supertech 80w-90 Gear oil (or their 75w-90 synthetic gear oil) for the rear end. Both are value priced, bottled by a major distributor, and have an excellent track record for several of us here on the boards. If you have some time to kill you can look up some reviews by oil analyzer websites; they actually get higher marks than some of the most expensive oils out there. I use their gear oil in the lower end of my outboard engine because in a boating magazine test it outperformed a few marine-specific oils. I also use their brand in all my vehicles. Some go by the saying 'you get what you pay for,' but this is one of those rare instances where the price is not at all evidence of the quality of product you're getting. Doesn't happen often, but when it does it's up to us consumers to let each other know about it! Ok, regulator rectifier. Where is it located? It's a square box thing, almost identical to the one I posted a link to. It's usually mounted on the right side of the scooter (the side to your right when you're sitting on it), just above where the oil-fill is behind the plastic covering. Take some pics with the plastics off and I'll point it out. |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 11, 2010 17:35:26 GMT -5
Ok great, really didn't want to take that thing apart anyway...lol...thanks... I've been drivin it around today, and it's actually running great, just cant go more than 10 miles away... and keep it on the trickle charger...
The Rectifier-
Thanks for that as well. I just paid for the thing; so hopefully i will have it by the end of the week. ( fingers crossed ).
Now that you told me where it is, hopefully it will be pretty simple.
So, I'm gonna take the plastics off as soon as the part comes. If i have trouble then, I'll take some pics and post them up.
I'll let everyone know how it goes by the end of the week... Thanks all, for all the help...
Joe
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Post by joethursday on Oct 11, 2010 17:49:12 GMT -5
THANKS YOSTER
Just took a look underneath and saw the rectifier. Looks simple enough. I don't think I have too much trouble with it...
I'll let you know how it goes. Hopefully that's all i need...
Joe
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Post by yoster on Oct 11, 2010 17:56:17 GMT -5
Sounds good. Did you order it from the place I recommended? If so, please contact him and tell him to put the same connectors on it that he did for the guy from "Scooterdoc." That way it will be plug-n-play when you get it and you won't have to mess around with manually wiring it.
Let me know once you've received it and installed it. If you're still having issues after that, we'll go from there. A good start though getting that out of the way now; you were going to need it sooner or later. After that, there are a few tricks to this scooter to buy a few more amps (besides changing lights). I.e.: Many of us swap out the blocking diode for a relay (I'll show you waht that is once you take pics). That gets you about a half an amp alone.
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Post by yoster on Oct 11, 2010 18:30:19 GMT -5
Also, while you're waiting on the RR, go ahead and pick up a digital multimeter. You can get one for $8 at Harbor Freight. You'll need this once you get the new RR installed and go about verifying that it's operating correctly.
Also, just to make sure we're not ruling out the obvious, you have checked all the fuses right? If your scooter is running out of juice in 10 minutes, it means your RR isn't doing anything at ALL. Like I said, you'll want the upgraded RR regardless, but you may also have a bad fuse somewhere, a bad blocking diode, or bad connection (I know you said you checked connections, but did you check one while having access to a multimeter?).
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Post by joethursday on Oct 11, 2010 21:06:03 GMT -5
I've got a nice muti-meter. I did mention before I'm an electrical contractor....lol.... Just never tried my luck at auto-mechanics... I've tested the voltage across the battery and it dips when running, so i know that the battery's draining instead of charging.
Please let me know other ways to test and things to look for.
I do really hope it's just the rectifier tho.
Also, it's not dying after 10 minutes. I rode it today for about an 40 minutes without problems. But when i put it back on the charger it was about half drained. The longest i've ridden without dying was just over an hour.
We'll see how the rectifier rectifies the situation, and go on from there. Wish me luck...lol
Joe
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Post by onilegion on Oct 11, 2010 21:58:48 GMT -5
Don't concern yourself with such threads; they'll waste your time, trust me. 10w-40 or 15w-40 are fine. No one has ruined an engine from it's use. Many 10k+ mile scooter owners on this board have used conventional, regular over the counter dino 10w-40 oil since they got the scooter with no ill affect. People will argue this oil thing until they're blue in the face. Take it from me and just ignore those threads. It's all opinion-based, which doesn't really help anyone solve any problems. [EDIT] Realized you're referring to gear lube, sorry about that! Anyway, same idea applies. Keep it simple and go with the 80w-90 gear oil. Hi Joe, Here is a great fact-based article that will tell you all you will ever need to know about choosing an oil for your motorcycle or scooter. If you take the time to read it you can understand why a 15W-40 engine oil is so highly recommended for these hard working scooter engines. motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html Also here is a nice chart comparing the viscosities of various oils of different grade systems, ie engine oil viscosity number vs a gear oil viscosity number. You can clearly see how the actual viscosity of a say a 75W-80 gear oil is very comparable to that of a 10W-30 engine oil. So you don't need to worry about putting a 75W-80, a 75W-90 or an 80W-90 gear oil in the final-drive gear box; it will not be too viscous. Here is the source for the chart: www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html Hope this is helpful, onilegion <>< |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 12, 2010 0:52:55 GMT -5
Thanks Onilegion,
Very Interesting chart. I appreciate the info. Thanks again
Joe
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Post by joethursday on Oct 12, 2010 12:43:31 GMT -5
Sounds good. Did you order it from the place I recommended? If so, please contact him and tell him to put the same connectors on it that he did for the guy from "Scooterdoc." That way it will be plug-n-play when you get it and you won't have to mess around with manually wiring it. I did order it from the same place. I asked him to install the plugs. He sent me a reply message asking what kind of plugs they were. Can you please tell me a way to describe them or send a picture of the connectors/plugs please. Thanks. Also, can you tell me what relay to purchase in order to remove the blocking diode. Thank you Joe |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 13, 2010 12:29:30 GMT -5
HELLO ALL
Still waiting on the regulator rectifier to com in the mail. However, I want to let you all know.
I read a post somewhere, and a man had the same exact charging problem i had. Turns out, it was the stator generator that was bad. He replaced it and all was well. I'm gonna try that after the rectifier , if it doesn't do the trick.
>>>Joe
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Post by joethursday on Oct 13, 2010 12:43:48 GMT -5
Can someone please tell me where to locate the stator generator? Thanks,
>>>>>>>Joe
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Post by yoster on Oct 13, 2010 13:49:27 GMT -5
Sounds good. Did you order it from the place I recommended? If so, please contact him and tell him to put the same connectors on it that he did for the guy from "Scooterdoc." That way it will be plug-n-play when you get it and you won't have to mess around with manually wiring it. I did order it from the same place. I asked him to install the plugs. He sent me a reply message asking what kind of plugs they were. Can you please tell me a way to describe them or send a picture of the connectors/plugs please. Thanks. Also, can you tell me what relay to purchase in order to remove the blocking diode. Thank you Joe Tell him to do it the same way as he did for a recent scooter customer by the name of Todd. |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 13, 2010 14:18:01 GMT -5
He said he remembered, and kept the notes from the way he wired it. >>>Thanks Yoster
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Post by joethursday on Oct 14, 2010 12:11:27 GMT -5
Can someone please tell me where to locate the stator generator? Thanks,
>>>>>>>Joe
I thought I will throw out for salutes or rotten egg tosses ...
I went out and bought a Honda Helix repair manual upon purchase of my Duke 250 after learning it is the same engine (172MM) ... at least with regard to a drive-train manual, it has served me admirably.
Another bone: I have repeatedly gotten replacement parts for my engine directly from the local Honda dealership ... they have fit/worked perfectly ... getting parts from Lance has never proven to be either quick or an exact science for me or for the local Lance brick and mortar scooter dealer/repair-shop.
BTW, I also have the spreadsheet from Lance that has all of the engine parts pictured (with lines showing how they hang together), identified by part # and description, and price ...
It is almost identical to what you can find on Honda's parts web page, but the part #'s are different.
I'm glad to hear you have these nice manuals and spreadsheets, but i haven't been able to find any of these. i"m just running around the internet in circles; and i don't want to buy another manual. Do these tell you where the stator generator is? I'll go back to my original question, "can you please let me know where to locate the stator." It will save me a lot of time taking things apart and searching to find it. If you don't want to just tell me, can you send me any links to the info. I've looked for the honda parts webpage you mentioned, but can't find it. You've got a Lance spreadsheet? Can you scan and post hear ? or give a web link to it? Thanks, I appreciate any help/info anyone can give.... >>>>>Joe |
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Post by yoster on Oct 14, 2010 13:31:05 GMT -5
Lets put the stator subject aside for the time being. I don't want you going in and replacing everything as just shots in the dark. The stators are usually fine; very few cases of them being the culprit. Plus many times (not all) when the stator goes out, the scooter doesn't run at all (since the CDI is powered by the stator).
As for the location, you know the side of the engine where you put in the engine oil/where the coolant exits the engine? Well, it's behind that part of the engine casing. If you look to the right of the casing (towards the front of the scooter), you'll see some wires exiting it. Those are from the stator.
I wouldn't want you to go ripping into that now; it's a bit more of a chore than troubleshooting a few obvious things first. Plus it's relatively simple to test the stator for functionality and rule that out without ever removing it.
General question: Tell me what your headlights are doing. When you first start it up, are they bright, and at any point in the ride do they out of nowhere go VERY dim? (dim as in barely even on?)
Also, you mentioned you have a voltage drop when you start the scooter. Can you tell us what the actual voltage is when it is idling, and what it is when you're revving to say 3k rpm? Give us numbers when the fan is off.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 14, 2010 16:35:45 GMT -5
The lights dim when i press the brake levers. And the display and head lights do get very dim just before the battery dies.
The fan is wired to always be on, so i can"t tell you the readings while it's off.
I will read the voltages again and let you know the exact numbers while idling and while reving. I don't have a RPM read out on my scooter. but I'll just rev like normal driving, i suppose.
I'll be back with that in a bit...
Thanks
>>>>Joe
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Post by joethursday on Oct 14, 2010 16:38:33 GMT -5
;D...The regulator rectifier was just mailed out today, so I will be able to test if that was the issue by Monday.
LATEST UPDATE ON PAGE 4
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Post by yoster on Oct 14, 2010 18:01:19 GMT -5
Your fan is wired to always be on? Jeepers. Any reason you have it set-up like that? The fans on these scooters are absolute power hogs. It's no wonder why you're having charging woes; that certainly is not helping.
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Post by joethursday on Oct 14, 2010 20:55:28 GMT -5
Your fan is wired to always be on? Jeepers. Any reason you have it set-up like that? The fans on these scooters are absolute power hogs. It's no wonder why you're having charging woes; that certainly is not helping. Ya , i don't know why it's wired like that. I noticed because as soon as i turn the ignition key before i start the engine, the fan comes on. as soon as power is given to the bike. I looked under at the radiator when i drained it. The two wires that go to the water temp sensor are taken off and put together by a fused cap. I think that's what's going on, but not 100% Anyway, if i reattach to the radiator water sensor, do you think that will solve the problem? or am i misidentifying those wires fused together? |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 14, 2010 20:57:53 GMT -5
It was like that when i bought it. It had one owner that only put 30 miles on it. But, her boyfriend was really into bikes, and may have tried to modify it. I couldn't think of any other reason...
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Post by joethursday on Oct 15, 2010 12:11:15 GMT -5
Your fan is wired to always be on? Jeepers. Any reason you have it set-up like that? The fans on these scooters are absolute power hogs. It's no wonder why you're having charging woes; that certainly is not helping. Ya , i don't know why it's wired like that. I noticed because as soon as i turn the ignition key before i start the engine, the fan comes on. as soon as power is given to the bike. I looked under at the radiator when i drained it. The two wires that go to the water temp sensor are taken off and put together by a fused cap. I think that's what's going on, but not 100% Anyway, if i reattach to the radiator water sensor, do you think that will solve the problem? or am i misidentifying those wires fused together? I took the two wires off the fuse that was shorting them together. Turned on the ignition, NO FAN. Okay, so they are leading to the fan, and have been shorted to eliminate the sensor. I attached the wires to the sensor. When it warmed up, fan kicked on, sensor is good. Now on to voltage testing. With fan not running constantly. I again, fully charge the battery. *Fully charged battery, 13.1v*Started the engine, 12.3v*5-7 minutes warming time, 12.1v (fan is still off, revving the engine no voltage drop with higher RPM's *Rode about 30 minutes on open roads and back home (15-45 mph), turned off engine, 10.1v*Tried starting, not enough power *Test after start attempt, 11.1v*Started engine again, 10.1v*Revved engine with no Voltage Drop *Turned off engine, 9.9 Volts*Tried restarting, not enough power *Put it back on charger to wait for the damn Regulator Rectifier.....lol |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 15, 2010 20:34:45 GMT -5
Your fan is wired to always be on? Jeepers. Any reason you have it set-up like that? The fans on these scooters are absolute power hogs. It's no wonder why you're having charging woes; that certainly is not helping. I have 2 duke 250's and one of them has been an overheater under stress (like climbing an incline for a half mile) from day 1, even after my mechanic repeatedly flushed the radiator and changed the oil, and changed out the radiator cap, thermostat, water temp transducer (on cylinder head), and fan temp switch (on radiator). We also checked that the hoses were not blocked or kinked. The only thing that I have been able do to make this one drivable at all was to short the connectors to the fan temp sensor switch to keep the fan on all the time. Mine is not an overheating issue. I have wired the fan back to the temp sensor, and there are no overheating issues. The sensor was fine. It did overheat before changing all the fluids. Maybe the previous owner thought it was a fan problem and never bothered to change the fluids. My problem is with the charging system.... I really hope the voltage regulator solves the issue... >>>Joe |
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Post by joethursday on Oct 17, 2010 17:26:23 GMT -5
UPDATE
CHANGED THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR, NO DIFFERENCE !!! AAAAHHHHHHHH !!!!
$100 bucks, bunch of work, and not one bit of improvement. Starting to get very annoyed.
Unless anyone has any other ides. Time to replace the Magneto Stator. Can someone tell me how to test the Stator, before taking it out?
Thanks,
Joe
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Post by joethursday on Oct 17, 2010 18:46:51 GMT -5
Sounds good. Did you order it from the place I recommended? If so, please contact him and tell him to put the same connectors on it that he did for the guy from "Scooterdoc." That way it will be plug-n-play when you get it and you won't have to mess around with manually wiring it. Let me know once you've received it and installed it. If you're still having issues after that, we'll go from there. A good start though getting that out of the way now; you were going to need it sooner or later. After that, there are a few tricks to this scooter to buy a few more amps (besides changing lights). I.e.: Many of us swap out the blocking diode for a relay (I'll show you waht that is once you take pics). That gets you about a half an amp alone. OK installed the new RR with no luck. Can you tell me where the Blocking Diode is, so i can test it? THanks >>Joe |
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I had to pull over for 30 minutes and let it cool down enough to get back home.
