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Post by jprestonian on Jul 16, 2009 23:57:32 GMT -5
Naw, man -- you're right. Maybe it's the fact that you don't seem to know the difference between "loose" and "lose."  . |
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Post by harrywr2 on Jul 17, 2009 14:27:53 GMT -5
Imagine that...grown people deciding for themselves what safety gear to wear or not to wear. www.canyonlakemotorcycleclub.com/gpage.htmlTo some folks - no one should be allowed to ride a motorcycle/scooter at all. Always someone looking to impose their idea on safe on someone else. |
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Post by harrywr2 on Jul 17, 2009 21:07:52 GMT -5
Food for thought....
In the 18-24 year old demographic Suicide is a major cause of death.
Yet no where in the accident statistics for motorcycles is suicide listed. And no where in suicide statistics is suicde by motorcycle or suicide by car.
Some percentage of motorcycle accidents must be either successful or failed suicide attempts...car wrecks as well.
Same goes for drunk driving fatalities..seems to me that getting liquored up and driving in a tree should be a significant portion of suicide statistics...but notta in the stats.
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Post by erictheviking666 on Jul 18, 2009 15:25:48 GMT -5
I wear shorts and sandals everyday and I'm no kid. If I was riding something over 50cc I might wear some more gear. As of now I don't even own a helmet. In Florida if you wear full leathers, jeans w/chaps, gloves, etc. you can pass out sitting on your bike at a light. Thankfully with no helmet laws you can ride around town without baking. Now if I was riding something bigger and was taking out on the interstate then I wouldn't feel safe without a Helmet, etc. But I kind of chuckle to myself when I see someone on a 50cc Scooter running 35mph in full riding gear from head to toe. But I believe in each his own, I won't make of fun of someone in full gear, if they won't try to lecture me on proper safety. I don't fault anyone for doing or wearing anything they need to feel safe on their bike. But just remember that those of us who can and do choose to ride without all that gear are risking themselves. It's not anybody else's business.
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Post by erictheviking666 on Jul 18, 2009 21:31:55 GMT -5
True that. But I'm still willing too take my chances on most roads. I'm not married and have no kids, so for me it's a little different than for some people.
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 19, 2009 20:22:01 GMT -5
A car hitting you will hit you just as hard as it would a bigger bike. You falling down fall just as far. hit just as hard.
me, I laugh at the guys I see riding Harleys in a t-shirt and jeans, no helmet, while I'm wearing full gear on a 150.
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Post by erictheviking666 on Jul 19, 2009 20:33:29 GMT -5
To each his own.
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 20, 2009 6:03:57 GMT -5
Oh, I agree, I'm just pointing out that your rational isn't very good. If you don't want to wear the stuff, that's your choice, but the fact that it's only a 50 cc scoot doesn't really matter.
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Post by maxximtl on Jul 20, 2009 15:18:17 GMT -5
People are free to make their own decisions, but I wonder what percentage of riders who went down without a helmet/gear wished they had been wearing them at the time of the accident? If its anything less than 100%, I'd be surprised.
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 21, 2009 8:46:19 GMT -5
When I started riding more than 50 years ago, nobody wore helmets. Most of those 50+ years I haven't worn a helmet. I rely on my experience because not having an accident or spill is much better than surviving one.
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Post by erictheviking666 on Jul 21, 2009 11:30:30 GMT -5
Amen brother!!
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Post by maxximtl on Jul 21, 2009 14:21:13 GMT -5
Its a matter of choice.... If you think experience is going to keep a car from hitting you, or that being hot is a valid reason for not wearing gear, more power to you. But, I won't feel the least bit bad when they peel either of you up off the pavement WHEN the accident happens.
I have been down on a bike multiple times and been hit by a truck on my motorcycle. I KNOW the dangers associated with riding and know that you can't correct or totally avoid the actions of other drivers.
You wear a seat belt in a car and you wear at least a helmet on a bike. End. of. story.
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 21, 2009 17:26:45 GMT -5
You couldn't avoid getting hit by a truck?  I find that hard to believe. |
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Post by maxximtl on Jul 21, 2009 22:42:00 GMT -5
I can't believe you are still trying to convince anyone that wearing a helmet is a bad idea. And yes, I am telling you that accidents are unavoidable...thats why they continue to occur on a daily basis.
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 22, 2009 6:08:31 GMT -5
I can't believe that anyone would think that all accidents are avoidable, and that their own actions and reactions will be perfect. Problem is, many have nothing to do with your own actions or reactions to a situation.
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 22, 2009 9:25:13 GMT -5
I am not arguing against people wearing helmets. I am arguing against being told I must wear one because somebody else has accidents. 99% of accidents are avoidable. Counting on fast reflexes should not be necessary most of the time. Anticipation and analyzing of traffic situations is a skill that one can learn. Close calls are a sign you are doing something wrong. scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=safety&action=display&thread=12816 |
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 22, 2009 9:59:07 GMT -5
Are you missing that no one is saying you have to wear a helmet? I'm just saying your reasoning is faulty. If you don't want to wear one because you don't want to and are willing to accept the added risk, that's fine. But saying it's because you are good enough not to need one is fooling yourself. And no matter how good you are, you aren't perfect, and you can't anticipate everything correctly. You will make mistakes. Other people will also make mistakes, and that is out of your control. I haven't fallen in more than 20 years, but I still wear a helmet all the time. That's because when I did go down back in 1985, the lack of a helmet would have killed me. Fortunately I believed in them even back then when I also believed in my own superiority and immortality.
Do you take all the erasers off of your pencils?
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Post by erictheviking666 on Jul 22, 2009 12:04:55 GMT -5
I'm with Warstein, I don't need the government being my mother and forcing me to wear a helmet. If I choose to wear one its my decision not theirs. The point is it does not need to be legislated as law. It should be left up to the individual rider. If I want to risk splattering my brains all over the curb they are my brains to splatter. But as Warstein said just because you ride does not mean your absolutely,positively, going to lay down your bike at one time or another. I've known people who have ridden 30 or 40 years and never had to lay down there bikes.
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 22, 2009 14:17:39 GMT -5
Where is anyone on this thread talking about requiring helmets?
And where is anyone saying that you "absolutely positively" will go down? Seems to me the only claim is that he won't ever go down because he is too good.
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 22, 2009 18:25:13 GMT -5
I am not saying that I won't go down because I am just too good. I am saying that I ride in a way as to stay out of trouble. That means I never put my fate in the hands of others. I never depend on them doing what I want. I never toot my horn at them. You are taught to look where you want to go and subconsciously you go there. So if you blow your horn to get someones attention, they will go right at you. I rely on my scooter's acceleration, braking, and maneuverability to stay out of trouble. There is a lot more I have learned over the years. |
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 22, 2009 21:33:41 GMT -5
I've learned a lot too. I've learned that I can't control everything, and not wearing a helmet, etc., is stupid. Run some of your "advice" past the MSF instructors, see what they say about never honking, etc. Seriously, honking will make them hit you? That's ludicrous.
I'm going to quit now, clearly you know everything.
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Post by erictheviking666 on Jul 23, 2009 0:04:50 GMT -5
I don't know about other states, but here the MSF instructors have a huge showroom to sell you safety equipment. So of course they would never tell you anything otherwise because they want to sell some stuff. But don't get me wrong, if an MSF instructor ever said anything against a helmet or other equipment he would get fired. Not just to sell equipment, but if an instructor ever spoke out against something like that and someone got killed then the lawyers would have a field day. So even if an MSF instructor believed it should be left up to free choice he could never voice his opinions at work.
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Post by WarrenS on Jul 23, 2009 10:47:26 GMT -5
You can't control everything. That is why you have to look out for yourself. Nobody is going to look out for you no matter how loud your horn is. Just yesterday an emergency vehicle with his siren blaring and lights flashing was coming toward me at a high rate of speed. The 3 cars ahead of me and I pulled over. However the suv behind me just kept on going. There used to be a member called OOPS who was constantly having accidents. Out of concern for him I started a post called "What I learned from experience. scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=safety&action=display&thread=7603 |
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Post by harrywr2 on Jul 24, 2009 16:22:35 GMT -5
I've learned a lot too. I've learned that I can't control everything, and not wearing a helmet, etc., is stupid. Run some of your "advice" past the MSF instructors, see what they say about never honking, etc. Seriously, honking will make them hit you? Some interesting statistics www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.PDFThat's an interesting statistic...75% of the time the motorcyclist didn't even hit the brakes. probably busy blowing the horn. |
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 24, 2009 20:21:18 GMT -5
That's an interesting conclusion you've lept to; want to back it up?
Your stats also don't say what you seem to think they do.
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Post by nickiemcnichols on Jul 24, 2009 20:25:39 GMT -5
I gave you a bone for this. The first time I ever had a heat stroke was in College Station, at the TAMU campus. I was wearing nothing but T shirt and shorts.
The second time I had a heatstroke was in Chandler, AZ. I was wearing a hat, IZOD shirt, and shorts. I almost died both times, because I was alone. Both times were on golf courses.
A few years ago, I got sun sickness. I was wearing T shirt, shorts, and no hat... on a farm. I was alone then, too. Now, I wear something on my head in this damned summer sun. It will kill you, or at the very least make you feel like sh--. In my opinion, if you ride in the hot summer sun with a bare head, you're stoopid...
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 24, 2009 20:30:42 GMT -5
For instance, you neglected to mention that in 37% of two-vehicle crashes, neither vehicle took crash-avoidance action, while motorcyclists were more likely to do so than passenger vehicle drivers.
Now, since we're on the subject, have you looked at stats for those wearing and not wearing protective gear?
I can understand why someone would choose not to wear helmets and/or other gear. Why they would argue against it boggles my mind.
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Post by harrywr2 on Jul 25, 2009 21:00:58 GMT -5
For instance, you neglected to mention that in 37% of two-vehicle crashes, neither vehicle took crash-avoidance action, while motorcyclists were more likely to do so than passenger vehicle drivers. Now, since we're on the subject, have you looked at stats for those wearing and not wearing protective gear? I can understand why someone would choose not to wear helmets and/or other gear. Why they would argue against it boggles my mind. I'm not speaking from theory...I've done the left turn larry thing. The idiot froze...right in the middle of two lanes...and no I didn't hit the horn. He saw me at the last second and jammed on his freaking brakes. I'm not arguing against gear...I'm arguing against people who wear gear thinking they are 'safe'. They are not. My Shoei Helmet cracked in half. That was with an impact speed of maybe 20-30 MPH. Impact above 30 MPH...you are just plain dead. How you drive is what is going to keep you alive...assume every corner has sand on it...every blind turn has someone coming around wide, left turn larry is going to go. Someone is going to run the red light. The helmet increases your odds of living by 37% if you are wrong...its worth having on your head. But if your going to drive like it protects you...you are kidding yourself. |
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 26, 2009 7:40:24 GMT -5
Can you point out where anyone is claiming that gear, or equipment, or anything else makes them "safe", or prevents accidents? In fact, it seems to me that it's the people making claims about "control" and "experience" that seem to think it is making them "safe", not us. And if you think experience is enough to protect you, you're kidding yourself. If you don't want to ride with a helmet or whatever, that's your right, but don't pretend that it's because you're too good, too experienced, too much in control to ever crash. That's pretty much how the young, stupid, immortal squid think.
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Post by owenbrau on Jul 26, 2009 11:56:34 GMT -5
Where does the MSF say not to cover your brakes? They quite clearly say to do so, in certain circumstances, but not saying to do it all the time is not the same thing as saying not to do it at all. Besides, hitting a pothole with them covered could itself lead to a problem. But in more than 25 years, I've never had anyone tell me never to do it.
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I find that hard to believe.