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Post by meloyelo on Jun 9, 2008 18:54:51 GMT -5
Hello all. I am new to scooting' and to this site and I'd like to tell you of my online purchase experience. After browsing through this site for about a month, I decided to by a scooter online. Despite all the negative reviews about ATVDiscounters, I went ahead and ordered from them anyway (they have one of the best prices around). I ordered a VOG (Xingyue) with 16" wheels. My only color options were grey or green. Since I did not want the green, I requested that the hold my order until they had the grey. Two weeks passed with no movement, only a message that my shipment was prepared. At that point I called and spoke to Doug, the INTERNET sales manager. I politely asked what the deals with my order was. He said that there was no Grey or green, only yellow or red. Perfect, yellow was the color I wanted. Doug changed the order, and the unit went out that very day (Fri, May 31). On Wed. June 4, there was an Estes truck at work with my scoot. Much to my surprise, the unit was completely assembled (minus battery & mirrors) with NO DAMAGE. After charging the battery (bike came with a charger), I gassed it up and started after about three tries of the starter. On Friday, the 6th, I called Doug, and again politely asked about the MSO. He directed me to the site and a link to request the MSO. I did, and also wrote a little bit of praise about Doug. Today, Monday morning I had the MSO in my hand (sent via priority mail). All in all, it was a great experience. The two weeks with no movement on my order was due to my request, and can't be blamed on them. The moral of the story; you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. I don't know about other peoples experience with ATVD and how they approached them, but they seem to respond well when treated well. Those who call demanding their shipment and threatening to cancel their order or to take legal action will get nowhere. Remember, they have control of when (and how) they will ship your scooter. I have since written to the owners, telling them how satisfied I am, and have also received a response stating that they would forward that email to Doug. BTW, the scoot rides like a dream. By tomorrow night, I will be zipping around town, all thanks to ATVDiscounters.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 9, 2008 19:13:19 GMT -5
meloyelo: I guess you and I were both typing up our ATVD reviews at the same time! I am glad to hear you've had a positive experience. There's a good deal of negative feedback on ATVD online. Although I don't dismiss any of that, their 94.4% rating on eBay shows that there are also a decent amount of people who have had a positive experience. Those positive experiences are not as well represented online.
I have an outstanding order with ATVD and am hoping my experience is as good as yours. I guess I'll know soon enough.
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Post by bkbroiler on Jun 9, 2008 21:14:34 GMT -5
Interesting that there are several new users who have come on to praise ATVD right after they were getting several terrible write-ups from frustrated customers on here. Very interesting indeed.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 9, 2008 21:31:52 GMT -5
Well I'm not praising them at all. Like I said it my post, the jury is out as far as I'm concerned. ATVD definitely has some red flags as to their business dealings. I don't dispute any of that.
I do think it's worthwhile to hear stories (like this one) that offer a different perspective. Like I said in my thread, ATVD has a 94.4 positive rating on eBay with over 7500 transactions. That means that the majority of their customers on eBay have had a positive experience. The other side of that is, they have a pretty crappy record over the past month.
I'm not sticking up for them. I think if you ask anybody in retail, they'd tell you that you generally only hear negative feedback--people who have a positive experience generally don't bother to write about it (probably because it's expected). All that said--as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on ATVD. I'll post how my transaction goes on my own thread--if it goes sour, you'll hear all about it. I hope it doesn't.
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 9, 2008 22:02:49 GMT -5
Well the change is simple, in the last month eBay changed the feedback rules so sellers can no longer hold you hostage under the threat of leaving you negative feedback if you do so for them. Feedback is no longer a part of the deal, so people can now leave their REAL comments without the threat of getting bad feedback as retribution.
-Rich
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Post by bkbroiler on Jun 9, 2008 23:12:20 GMT -5
Well the change is simple, in the last month eBay changed the feedback rules so sellers can no longer hold you hostage under the threat of leaving you negative feedback if you do so for them. Feedback is no longer a part of the deal, so people can now leave their REAL comments without the threat of getting bad feedback as retribution. -Rich I didn't know they changed that! Yeah the ebay ratings were being manipulated quite a bit by threats. I'm glad they fixed that. I would say you should pay attention to the feedback since the change. |
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Post by leshassell on Jun 9, 2008 23:22:56 GMT -5
I think you also might look at the ebay feedback for just the last month or so; it paints quite a different picture. Another consideration is to look at only feedback for street legal units. It seems the majority of complaints revolve around scooters and not off-road ATV's. Maybe they call themselves ATVdiscounter and not Scooterdiscounter for a reason. I'm sure its all growing pains but Geez, can't they just be honest and straight up with their customers and cut all the B.S. lies?
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Post by mortar235 on Jun 9, 2008 23:41:19 GMT -5
haha here is an example of their horribly unconvincing lies...
Customer feedback: "Purchased assembled but got unassembled scooter. Horrible customer service!!!!!!"
ATVD reply: "You purchased an unassembled unit-requires you put front tire on-order correct"
Item description: "SC-23 Scooter 150cc ASSEMBLED Milano Free Ship $ 888"
lol pathetic
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Post by glassvial on Jun 10, 2008 8:37:33 GMT -5
And the auction itself clearly states:
No Assembly Required!!
This Scooter will arrive fully assembled by trained factory technicians !!
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Post by meloyelo on Jun 10, 2008 10:18:59 GMT -5
Like anything else, satisfaction is based on expectations. You purchase a cheap (inexpensive) product on the internet knowing that you will get limited support (no matter how good the retailer is) based on the fact that they are not local. If you don't want the worries or hassles associated with buying online, you go to a dealer, pay $1,000 to $2,000 more and you will get the service you want. I'm sure Vespa, Honda or Yamaha owners do not suffer these problems. I paid $1088 for my scoot. What does $1,000 buy these days as far as transportation goes; not much. I made my purchase with low expectations. When I received my shipment, I was ready with camera in hand to document any damage and was ready to assemble wheels, handlebars, mirrors, etc. To my surprise, it arrived with no damage and 99.9% assembled. You will never find a retailer of any kind that offers such low prices without some sacrifices. If you want a product and services that cost $3,000, you will not get it for $1,000. As the saying goes "you get what you pay for". I was one of the lucky ones; will I buy from ATVD again? Maybe. The prices are right, their selection is one of the best I've seen. Maybe next time I may have to do some of the legwork or hound them for my MSO. What can I expect for $1,000?
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Post by GAZZOO on Jun 10, 2008 10:37:51 GMT -5
I am "one of them guys" who is writing stuff about ATVD. From first-hand experience I can tell you I should expect to receive my scooter in less that 30 days. Notified when the scooter I ordered isn't in stock, Instead of waiting a month for it to restock, and still bill my credit card. I don't believe that ATVD is in the business to rip people off. People are getting their scooters. Albiet SLOWLY. But their mgmnt. is bad, bad, bad. Maybe just growing too fast, too soon? Shame, they could have the biggesst and best out there if they just took a customer relations class.  |
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Post by sleeper on Jun 10, 2008 13:13:01 GMT -5
if you take a close look at the way the feedback breaks out, you will find it only about 77% or so positive (we are talking about the last 45 days). that just aint good. and your point is important too, les: the most complaints involve scooters. factor it all in and you paint a pretty bleak picture. take all the comments on this and other forums, like myself, who can't leave feedback since he didn't order via ebay.
consider all that, and then look at the rebuttals they post. hilarious! they are all:
1) lying;
2) never emailed or called;
3) a competitor trying to smear us; or
4) had "incorrect" expectations.
none of which makes any sense since they never reply to the complaint at hand. they just fire back. many of whom strongly rebutted the #2 (whats that got to do with it anyway?), i checked myself on the #3 and it didn't hold up, #4 you gotta have some specifics to back that up (mortar, you debunked that right off). ask yourself: how can EVERYONE ELSE be wrong?
one of their rebuttals in response to someone who never got their scooter simply says "LOWEST PRICES". hows that for an answer? and they ARE cheap. i agree, you can argue that "you get what you pay for" but there is a breaking point-- as in, when you get nothing at ll, you should be paying nothing at all.
meanwhile, i wait......
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Post by leshassell on Jun 10, 2008 20:28:45 GMT -5
Like anything else, satisfaction is based on expectations. You purchase a cheap (inexpensive) product on the internet knowing that you will get limited support (no matter how good the retailer is) based on the fact that they are not local. If you don't want the worries or hassles associated with buying online, you go to a dealer, pay $1,000 to $2,000 more and you will get the service you want. I'm sure Vespa, Honda or Yamaha owners do not suffer these problems. I paid $1088 for my scoot. What does $1,000 buy these days as far as transportation goes; not much. I made my purchase with low expectations. When I received my shipment, I was ready with camera in hand to document any damage and was ready to assemble wheels, handlebars, mirrors, etc. To my surprise, it arrived with no damage and 99.9% assembled. You will never find a retailer of any kind that offers such low prices without some sacrifices. If you want a product and services that cost $3,000, you will not get it for $1,000. As the saying goes "you get what you pay for". I was one of the lucky ones; will I buy from ATVD again? Maybe. The prices are right, their selection is one of the best I've seen. Maybe next time I may have to do some of the legwork or hound them for my MSO. What can I expect for $1,000? Hey, first minimum expectation is a usable product. I never had great expectations but I did expect to at least get a usable product. I got a product that was NOT the model or color I ordered yet, I'm not complaining about that. I am complaining about it coming up on six weeks now and I still don't have a Title. My warranty has expired yet I haven't even been able to run the thing down the road. Did you know that in Texas you have 20 days from purchase to Title a vehicle? After that, you have to pay a fine. Second minimum expectation is basic communication. I've left so many voicemails and sent so many emails requesting a return phone call that I could easily be considered a stalker yet, to this day, I have only had two return phone calls... both from salesmen the first day I called and expressed interest in buying a new scooter. Not a peep since day one. Honesty is probably too much expectation... but surely just an iota of honesty shouldn't be too much to ask for but, alas, they're liars... I have an email from Kelly Garrett and another from Glen both dated 5/22 that say the MSO is being shipped that day. When I called today I spoke to, I think, Trisha and was told there was no record of my paperwork ever being prepared let alone sent. So, either Trisha is a liar or Kelly and Glen are full of it. My guess is Kelly and Glen since its now 6/10 and I still have no paperwork. What kind of expectations should I have had? |
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Post by bkbroiler on Jun 10, 2008 22:26:30 GMT -5
Wow, this is bad. I am so glad that I didn't buy from them. I did call, but got a very bad "vibe" and got off the phone as fast as I could. This may sound prejudiced, but when the guy got on with the extreme southern drawl, it just sounded like every bad used car salesman stereotype all rolled into one.
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Post by shagvan on Jun 10, 2008 22:57:35 GMT -5
I can be considered one of the satisfied customers of ATVD. I ordered my scooter on 5/11 and received it on 6/2, perfect condition and working order. MCO and BOS recieved a short time later. Several hundred miles later, no complaints. Seems that it is hit or miss with this company.
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Post by plsscootover on Jun 11, 2008 0:08:20 GMT -5
I ordered a eagle on May 24th from ATVD. It's been 12 business days (3 weeks) and it still has not begun to be shipped. I tried to email shipping and never got a reply. I called and stayed on hold for a long time and finally someone got on and told me that the "new average" for sending a scooter to estes shipping company is 16 business days because they are in the process of "consolidating their wearhouses". when I ordered the scooter I was originally told "most" scooters ship by 10 days. Best case, it doesn't look like I will have the scooter for least a month after the day I ordered it.
I'm actually really glad to have found this site- I was begining to wonder if ATVD was a legitimate company and I was begining to think that I had been scammed. I was considering trying to cancel my order or report a fraudlent charge to my credit card. But thanks to this site, it looks to me like ATVD is just a company with terrible customer service in exchange for great prices. they should be more upfront about what to expect - They really do have cheap prices! I bet most customers would be happy to wait a month for a scooter at a 25% discount (if they know up front what to expect and just have decent enough customer service to be assured that the operation isn't a scam).
I'll keep you posted on whether I get the scooter I ordered (and when), if it is damaged and how long it takes to get the MSO. If I end up canceling the order, I'll post that too.
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Post by sleeper on Jun 11, 2008 10:16:29 GMT -5
ok, update. FINALLY got hold of doug, who did give me a tracking number and the name of freight carrier (Southeast Freight). he said they were receiving shipment of the 09's today and should go out today. expecting to be at freight terminal in VA monday or so. then a call first. so...maybe next week, week after? we shall see.
hoping.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 11, 2008 10:37:09 GMT -5
sleeper: what scooter did you order?
Also, I'm confused by your last post. You said Doug gave you a tracking number and a shipping company name. Has your order shipped? The reason I'm confused is that you go on to mention that he stated 09s are currently arriving and should go out TODAY. Is your bike an 09 that hasn't actually been picked up by Southeast Freight yet?
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Post by preachp on Jun 11, 2008 11:12:22 GMT -5
On the 30th of April I called ATVDicounter and ordered a Sunl SC-150-20. At that time I was told that it would be 4 to 6 weeks for my scooter to ship. I advised Doug that I would be on vacation during the middle of May and was there a way we could get it here before then. He stated yes they could expidite shipping but it was an additional $60. I said go ahead.
The scooter arrived on may 13th and was largely intact with only a cracked icense plate holder. No big problem.
I had to do some assembly but I knew that and was told that BEFORE I bought the scooter.
When I got back on 6/2/08 I called ATVDiscounter and advised that the throttle had been put on backwards and that my MSO had not arrived. On 6/6/08 I emailed them that I had not recieved a response to my inquiry. Nathan e-mailed within an hour and told me that the MSO would be mailed out that day (Friday) and that I should have it by the end of this week. Their parts person told me the throttle was on its way.
I got the throttle on Monday and I got my MSO with a stamped bill of sale today. I was never rude to these folks and they did everything they said they would. Also it should be noted that they have moved to a different building during all this and they still did what they said they would, when they said they would do it.
My overall satisfaction with ATVDiscounter is that I am pleased with them and I WOULD buy another machine from them if I have need of in the future.
In the peace of the LORD,
preachp
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Post by sleeper on Jun 11, 2008 14:08:57 GMT -5
tobor--
ordered the SC-09 (ATVDs number) which is (i believe) a SUNL 150-26. no, i do not believe my order has shipped, but he did give me a tracking number and the shipper name. this is not unusual, tracking number normally assigned prior to pickup. now, he didn't exactly give me too much info. when i asked about HOW to USE that tracking number, he was sorta like "um...check their website...?" well, i had to figure out what their website WAS first, but i did find it (he had the name slightly off too). but the tracking number checked out (not a fake number). it was assigned to ATVD with a weight, my address, and so on. so i'm assuming it will have to be picked up soon. again, taking everything with a grain of salt, but so far, so good. the shipper did not show it was picked up yet, so no, i guess it has not "shipped." but doug never actually said that, so...ok.
27 days and counting. will definitely report back.
hoping....
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Post by meloyelo on Jun 11, 2008 15:39:52 GMT -5
I don't want to be misunderstood. I am not defending ATVD. I fully agree that 30 days is the maximum you should have to wait to receive a product. I more that fully agree that no one should be lied to or given the runaround after they have kept their side of the deal (ie: paying for the product). Even with my order, I had to make a few phone calls.
What I don't agree with (or understand) is why people continue to buy from them. Before buying, I went to this site every day for about a month to figure out who to buy from. Even after reading all the negative reviews, I went ahead a purchased from them anyway. If something would have gone wrong, SHAME ON ME. I saw the risk and took it anyway. This situation happens; will continue to happen and has happened for as long as this forum has existed. Why will it continue to happen? Because people still buy from them. The day that their orders slow down or stop completely, that's when they'll stop and say "hey, what the hell is goin' on? Did we piss people off?" Until then, they will continue to screw us, and what will happen? Nothing, because we'll keep on ordering (vicious cycle-maybe that's what they should change their name to). As I have mentioned before, there are scooter dealers in every state, some near us, some farther away, but they are there none the less. Don't want to take a risk, buy at a reputable dealer. You'll see what you will buy, come fully assembled, have a warranty and customer service that is actually useful and most important you don't have to wait. While I sympathize for those who have gotten screwed, a small part of me wants to say "serves you right". You take a risk buying clothing, computers, telephones, etc over the internet, so you know that buying something like a scooter carries even a bigger risk. I purchased my '97 Saturn on ebay for $1800-real risky. I placed a bid on a car based on a picture and some guys description, sent the guy $500 via wire transfer and then waited for him to send the title. I was a prime target for getting ripped off. When I got the car (had to drive out to eastern Long Island), there were some minor problems I had to fix. Sure, the seller should have disclosed those minor problems (egr valve and O2 sensor), but that's the risk I took. In the end, after a long drive and about $300 in parts, I had car that I have been driving for 2-1/2 years. I didn't take these risks because I like to gamble or loose money. Quite the contrary, I did it because of the price.
What would make people happy? Paying more and getting your scooter quickly and smoothly or pay rock bottom prices and be at the mercy of the retailer? In the end, the choice is up to the individual. I know most people won't like what I'm saying, mostly the ones getting the crap end of the stick and I'm sorry. The fact remains, no one forced you to buy from ATVD or Scootertronics or Vally scooters or any of the online dealers that I've read complaints about. If you do your homework, investigate the retailer, read the reviews and you still order from them - SHAME ON YOU. To those who ordered and then did their homework only to find negative reviews - SHAME ON YOU.
I'll repeat, I don't mean to offend. My opinion on this matter is not because I had a good experience with ATVD. This is my opinion when it comes to buying anything in general. "Let the buyer beware" "An educated consumer makes a good customer" are all unfortunate truths when it comes to buying anything-online or otherwise. Maybe a boycott of ATVD will change their ways, maybe not.
All of us humans have a natural flaw. We can't resist a bargain, when we see something we want for a low price we can't help but grab it, regardless of who or where your buying it from. I believe the price reflects exactly what your getting. Think about it. You pay $900-$1000 for a scoot from a dealer. Shipping is generally between $150-$250 (remember today's fuel surcharges). By the time all middlemen are done with their mark ups, the dealer is only making about $100-$150. (remember ATVD is not the only middleman,, in my case there is also SUNL, who is not the manufacturer). So, that's $150 to store the bike, prepare paperwork, pay overhead (electric, web hosting, rent, etc). At the end what's left for us-ZERO. That's why I can say you get what you pay for, because we're not paying much.
In closing I say this to all looking to buy a scooter online. Assess the risk. Are you willing to take that risk? If you are, good for you, you have a great chance at getting a real nice bike for a great price. If you don't get what you wanted, when you wanted it. You shouldn't complain, 'cause you've been warned by a whole community. If you don't want to take that risk, go to a B&M store, you'll pay more but you'll be satisfied. Remember that this is not about unsatisfied customer who waited 6 weeks for their scoot, or got the wrong color. Nor is it about shady online dealers. It's about being an informed consumer, listen to advise from others. Know more about the product than the dealer so they can't trick you. Ask questions, then ask them again in another way see if the answer is the same. If not satisfied with the answers, do you think you'll be satisfied with the product? Probably not.
Sorry to all that I might have offended.
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 11, 2008 16:15:54 GMT -5
Well that last post deserves a short and sweet answer: Because they have never " screwed" anyone, have very good prices and provide parts if needed... this is why people continue to buy from them. I have many times and will again for the same reasons. Once all the kicking, screaming and crying is over with and Christmas has come and gone... the kids here quiet down and enjoy their rides! ;D Well, until the next kid comes along that is!  -Rich |
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Post by dukeofyork on Jun 11, 2008 17:41:28 GMT -5
It was most unpleasant experience dealing with the SCUM aka ATVD. I was assigned a tracking number and also assured that the scooter is in stock when actually it was not. Now I was lucky to get my money back in full but many people from now on won't be that lucky with the new policies of ATVD.
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Post by meloyelo on Jun 11, 2008 19:31:45 GMT -5
Big Guy, I don't have a problem with ATVD. As I stated, I was one of the lucky ones. I got my bike in less than 3 weeks, fully assembled, no damage and the right color. MSO came two days later. Next month I will purchase a small retro job for the wife, and I will buy it from ATVD for the exact reasons you stated. Maybe next time I won't be so lucky and I will be one of the ones kicking and screaming and never order from them again. Yet there are more than just a few people that have gotten "screwed" or are currently being "screwed".
Would your opinion of ATVD change if you had to wait a month for you scooter, and another 3-4 weeks to get you MSO? Maybe, maybe not. I guess it all depends on the price/aggravation ratio. For me, a 30-45 days wait to save a couple hundred dollars is acceptable (but that's just me). Hell, those couple hundred bucks paid for my registration, insurance, title, fresh oil, helmet and my first tank of gas.
plsscootover hit the nail on the head,
"I bet most customers would be happy to wait a month for a scooter at a 25% discount".
My scooter was almost exactly 25% less than the closest competitor (most were more).
At this point those ordering from ATVD should know what to expect, even if it doesn't come straight from the mouth of an ATVD salesman. You've heard (or read) it here.
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Post by skunkwiper on Jun 11, 2008 20:36:42 GMT -5
The reason some are pleased and others are not is because the results are, from all reports, inconsistent. It appears you are taking a chance when you deal with them.
Do you feel lucky?
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Post by GAZZOO on Jun 11, 2008 22:39:57 GMT -5
I'm currently completing a painfully long and complex transaction with ATVD.
Poor communication, no return emails, phone calls. Unkept promises.
But the price is right.
I would wait 45 days for a inexpensive scooter. Just let me know, up front. BEFORE I lay down my cash first.
Neal
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Post by preachp on Jun 11, 2008 23:26:37 GMT -5
In closing I say this to all looking to buy a scooter online. Assess the risk. Are you willing to take that risk? If you are, good for you, you have a great chance at getting a real nice bike for a great price. If you don't get what you wanted, when you wanted it. You shouldn't complain, 'cause you've been warned by a whole community. If you don't want to take that risk, go to a B&M store, you'll pay more but you'll be satisfied. Remember that this is not about unsatisfied customer who waited 6 weeks for their scoot, or got the wrong color. Nor is it about shady online dealers. It's about being an informed consumer, listen to advise from others. Know more about the product than the dealer so they can't trick you. Ask questions, then ask them again in another way see if the answer is the same. If not satisfied with the answers, do you think you'll be satisfied with the product? Probably not. Sorry to all that I might have offended. Hi meloyelo, I find your post like a breath of fresh air in a stale closet. Your last paragraph indeed clearly and succinctly states the whole of the matter. I gave you a Karma for this post because I believe you have hit the proverbial nail on the head! Ride safe, Ride Happy, and Ride long. In the peace of the LORD, preachp |
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Post by plsscootover on Jun 12, 2008 0:10:02 GMT -5
I don't want to be misunderstood. I am not defending ATVD. I fully agree that 30 days is the maximum you should have to wait to receive a product. I more that fully agree that no one should be lied to or given the runaround after they have kept their side of the deal (ie: paying for the product). Even with my order, I had to make a few phone calls. What I don't agree with (or understand) is why people continue to buy from them. Before buying, I went to this site every day for about a month to figure out who to buy from. Even after reading all the negative reviews, I went ahead a purchased from them anyway. If something would have gone wrong, SHAME ON ME. I saw the risk and took it anyway. This situation happens; will continue to happen and has happened for as long as this forum has existed. Why will it continue to happen? Because people still buy from them. The day that their orders slow down or stop completely, that's when they'll stop and say "hey, what the hell is goin' on? Did we piss people off?" Until then, they will continue to screw us, and what will happen? Nothing, because we'll keep on ordering (vicious cycle-maybe that's what they should change their name to). As I have mentioned before, there are scooter dealers in every state, some near us, some farther away, but they are there none the less. Don't want to take a risk, buy at a reputable dealer. You'll see what you will buy, come fully assembled, have a warranty and customer service that is actually useful and most important you don't have to wait. While I sympathize for those who have gotten screwed, a small part of me wants to say "serves you right". You take a risk buying clothing, computers, telephones, etc over the internet, so you know that buying something like a scooter carries even a bigger risk. I purchased my '97 Saturn on ebay for $1800-real risky. I placed a bid on a car based on a picture and some guys description, sent the guy $500 via wire transfer and then waited for him to send the title. I was a prime target for getting ripped off. When I got the car (had to drive out to eastern Long Island), there were some minor problems I had to fix. Sure, the seller should have disclosed those minor problems (egr valve and O2 sensor), but that's the risk I took. In the end, after a long drive and about $300 in parts, I had car that I have been driving for 2-1/2 years. I didn't take these risks because I like to gamble or loose money. Quite the contrary, I did it because of the price. What would make people happy? Paying more and getting your scooter quickly and smoothly or pay rock bottom prices and be at the mercy of the retailer? In the end, the choice is up to the individual. I know most people won't like what I'm saying, mostly the ones getting the crap end of the stick and I'm sorry. The fact remains, no one forced you to buy from ATVD or Scootertronics or Vally scooters or any of the online dealers that I've read complaints about. If you do your homework, investigate the retailer, read the reviews and you still order from them - SHAME ON YOU. To those who ordered and then did their homework only to find negative reviews - SHAME ON YOU. I'll repeat, I don't mean to offend. My opinion on this matter is not because I had a good experience with ATVD. This is my opinion when it comes to buying anything in general. "Let the buyer beware" "An educated consumer makes a good customer" are all unfortunate truths when it comes to buying anything-online or otherwise. Maybe a boycott of ATVD will change their ways, maybe not. All of us humans have a natural flaw. We can't resist a bargain, when we see something we want for a low price we can't help but grab it, regardless of who or where your buying it from. I believe the price reflects exactly what your getting. Think about it. You pay $900-$1000 for a scoot from a dealer. Shipping is generally between $150-$250 (remember today's fuel surcharges). By the time all middlemen are done with their mark ups, the dealer is only making about $100-$150. (remember ATVD is not the only middleman,, in my case there is also SUNL, who is not the manufacturer). So, that's $150 to store the bike, prepare paperwork, pay overhead (electric, web hosting, rent, etc). At the end what's left for us-ZERO. That's why I can say you get what you pay for, because we're not paying much. In closing I say this to all looking to buy a scooter online. Assess the risk. Are you willing to take that risk? If you are, good for you, you have a great chance at getting a real nice bike for a great price. If you don't get what you wanted, when you wanted it. You shouldn't complain, 'cause you've been warned by a whole community. If you don't want to take that risk, go to a B&M store, you'll pay more but you'll be satisfied. Remember that this is not about unsatisfied customer who waited 6 weeks for their scoot, or got the wrong color. Nor is it about shady online dealers. It's about being an informed consumer, listen to advise from others. Know more about the product than the dealer so they can't trick you. Ask questions, then ask them again in another way see if the answer is the same. If not satisfied with the answers, do you think you'll be satisfied with the product? Probably not. Sorry to all that I might have offended. You didn't offend me. However, I will say I actually did research on ATVD before I bought - they actually had a clean BBB report (only 3 complaints) and a high ebay rating at the time. If this forum is an accurate indication, it looks like their potential problems developed over the last couple of months (management change? couldn't handle increased sales volume?) In any case, I'm guessing that their ratings will degrade and their BBB complaints will increase over the next couple of months making it easier for future customers to be informed of the risks/tradeoffs you mentioned. |
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Post by leshassell on Jun 12, 2008 0:44:03 GMT -5
Melo, the problem with your "You shouldn't complain, 'cause you've been warned by a whole community" philosophy is that without the complaints there would be no warnings to the community. You know, before I ordered from ATVD I did do research. This forum never showed up in a search for them; neither did any BBB complaints. All I had to go on was ebay feedback and at that time it didn't seem horrible. I'm with GAZZOO, if they would be upfront from the beginning, I'd have less of a problem with waiting. But, as it is, I don't know when to believe they're actually on the ball or not. Believe it or not, for the first time since April (when I placed my order), I actually got a return phone call today! I was told my MSO was sent yesterday or today... they were not sure so I'm not placing bets or naming my firstborn after any of the Barlings or anything but maybe things will get rolling soon. I filed a complaint with TXDOT yesterday and I wonder if maybe thats what lit the fire under their southern regions?
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Post by sleeper on Jun 12, 2008 8:01:27 GMT -5
les, your point is entirely correct.
its true that we should know what we're getting into w ATVD or others like them. that is: save maybe $300 and have some uncertainty, headaches, etc. thats the choice. but also, i agree, that as far as the "so don't complain about it..." well, no. you DO report back your personal experience. from what i see, all of you are doing that accurately, truthfully, (and maybe angrily) but doing it. and thats a service to all. it would be ideal if the feedback loop worked well enough to make ATVD better, but it probably won't. you can call it a "complaint", but i'll call it a "report" and let it be at that. an important value it adds is: it serves as a counterpoint to the one-sided handjob of "95% perfection" you'll get at their website and ebay feedback. thats just plain false and it should be pointed out. this forum is your best source of unbiased consumer info and it is valuable. i use it, i would vote to keep it.
the $300 difference i mentioned refers to ordering from another online. in my area, to purchase from a local dealership would have been about triple the price. waiting for anything we've already paid for is tough. in this case, its not a vehicle i drive to work or even need. its just for fun, so... i took a roll of the dice like the rest of you.
if i had a lotta dough, i woulda gone the other way!
sleep
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