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Post by timber on Mar 3, 2012 11:34:45 GMT -5
Wow, I did a live chat with the dealer and asked when the MCO and paperwork will be sent to me, and much to my surprise he said a few weeks!
I won't mention the dealer so as to give him the benefit of the doubt and make it right, but I think expecting a customer to sit with a new vehicle they can't drive to wait WEEKS for paperwork is pretty outrageous to say the least!
Here's the chat:
Hi, can you tell me about the paperwork and MCO for my scooter rec'd yesterday, to register it with my DMV?
it comes from china, the paperwork?
wow, I was hoping id get all that in a few days...
I cant imagine why they dont just ship the paperwork with the units
oh i see well, ok, thank you for the update on this
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Post by inuyasha on Mar 3, 2012 11:45:34 GMT -5
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Post by imnts2 on Mar 3, 2012 15:41:09 GMT -5
I am really sorry for this mess.You are not being treated right. I have difficulty believing you did not ask about this before you bought. And I would expect to be warned if I did not ask. I would report him to the BBB and the consumers protection people of the state he does business in.
Part of the reason we need some parts of the government working well.
Sorry again
Should be a warning to all " Internet" buyers.
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Post by timber on Mar 3, 2012 19:18:12 GMT -5
I am really sorry for this mess.You are not being treated right. I have difficulty believing you did not ask about this before you bought. And I would expect to be warned if I did not ask. I would report him to the BBB and the consumers protection people of the state he does business in. . Well I ask because from everything I've read, they all mail the paperwork and it usually seemed to take a few days to a week to get it, which makes sense because how hard IS it and how much time does it take to put a couple of pieces of paper in an envelope after signing the bill of sale, sealing it, putting postage on and mailing it out? I found from the delivery papers that the scooter was SHIPPED from the TaoTao USA plant in Indiana not NY where the dealer is, and where I understood the scooter was warehoused and shipped from since their web site has a section on how the pack for shipping and how they ship, and there's photos of all that. So it turns out, all they DID was send in an order to the factory who did the actual shipping, but that's pretty standard and I have no issues with that particular method, though it IS misleading to have on your web site photos of how YOU pack, and how YOU ship, and imply the photos are from YOUR warehouse showing your inventory being packed for shipping, when in fact you don't have the items in your werehouse, don't do the packing or shipping, and futhermore- the photos showed the cartons on wood skids, my shipment did not have a wood skid, the angle iron cage itself was the "skid" with some blocks of box channel in each corner which raised it up about 1-1/2" off the floor, and the bottom angle iron on one side looks like a forklift ran into it trying to get under it. A wood skid as shown would have made handling that much easier. Also, the truck came with a liftgate despite my saying the delivery point is a business with a commercial loading dock and no liftgate needed- they wasted money on that service that wasn't needed- no doubt because that info never made it to the place that actually DID the shipping. I WONDERED why they (either this dealer or all of them) don't simply include the paperwork WITH the shipment so it's right there, done all the time with freight's packing list and paperwork in an envelope attached to the carton or given to the driver, now that I see this is mostly a drop-ship thing, that explains why- the guy has to do the bill of sale and get the certificates from the factory and one or the other does the actual mailing of the documents. I'll give the guy an appropriate, reasonable amount of time before I go with any steps as you suggested, but I'm not going to sit still and wait WEEKS, that's simply not right. |
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Post by mainepeace on Mar 3, 2012 19:21:42 GMT -5
The COO or MCO is sent separately from the factory. Typically, it is sent quickly. I get them from my distributor sometimes the same day that I take delivery of scooters. Most distributors are good about this. Thankfully I have not come across a time when I was waiting for the documentation. However, I can see problems happen, especially if importing directly from China. Unless you have a representative over there to watch over their shoulders, sometimes things happen.
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Post by D-cat on Mar 3, 2012 20:51:39 GMT -5
This story as all too typical. Be happy they are communicating with you and promising the paperwork at all.
B&M Dealers get preferential treatment because the factories know it isn't leaving the showroom floor until all is kosher with the DMV. Plus, since the dealer is acting as an agent, they are trusted with the paperwork.
Drop shippers are not the same story in any way. They're really just middle men on the business end. The factory has to send the bike and the paperwork (which may not have physically arrived with the bike) out to the actual buyer who's often in a different state which will absolutely delay things since each case has to be checklisted according to destination, and hope the numbers actually match.
From the customer perspective, even if it costs a little more, you will be better off ordering from an actual dealer with a real store front. As MP stated, the papers come to dealers more or less with the bikes, and you take possession of it ready to ride.
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Post by timber on Mar 4, 2012 0:31:20 GMT -5
This story as all too typical. Be happy they are communicating with you and promising the paperwork at all. Well the BBB and the court system are there to deal with such matters as shoddy business practices and people should make use of them as needed. This is an open and shut case as they could be- you buy an item and dont get the required documents, there's no if, and's or buts about it, it all sits squarely on the shipper and dealer's laps. If the problem was widespread enough, and with enough complaints, state attorneys generals would probably get involved. Contacting one's credit card issuer with a dispute would be a FIRST measure of action before BBB or court. I paid with a credit card that has a guarantee and all that behind it, and so I have a certain amount of time to work with from that angle. The big issue there with my is there are NO such stores here, not within an hour drive of me. I live way out in a rural town of less than 1800 people, we're fortunate to have one NAPA store for auto parts and 2 gas stations, only one of those even does repairs, and only basic stuff like tires, brakes etc. You don't find motorcycle shops near me because more than 40% of the residents here are over age 65, and almost everyone drives a car or truck. The one auto dealer here only sells and works on Chevy, Ford, General Motors, and they have nothing to do with cycles or foreign makes. In fact the boss once owned a foreign car, can't remember what it was, maybe it was a Jaguar, and no one around here would even touch it as they didn't have the books or anything else for it in their shop, so he wound up selling it because he doesnt know how and refuses to do any car stuff himself beyond gassing and driving, he won't even do oil changes. Now he drives a new leased Volvo and lets the dealer where ever he got it from deal with all that stuff as the lessor. I took a look at TaoTao USA in Indiana, they have a phone number but no email address, this was where the scooter was physically shipped from. Sure can't hurt to call them Monday and inquire. I'm very resourceful guy, long story short, I once got a full refund of a round trip plane ticket from United Airlines after their poor scheduling made it virtually impossible to catch the connecting flight. I had to go standby, and my luggage with my clothes was sent ahead which screwed me up. I took a proactive approach, and despite many people saying I won't see a dime, I got a check for the entire ticket, some $550 refunded. I had actually asked for $100 for the taxi I was forced to take when my second standby flight took me to an airport that was not my original destination which was 35 miles further out on Long Island. |
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Post by D-cat on Mar 4, 2012 21:59:04 GMT -5
/* "Hi, I'm going to Atlanta. I'd like this bag to go to Denver and this one to go to Miami." And they said ,"We can't do that." I said, "You did it yesterday." */ Gallagher - Stuck in the 60's. - (pt3@9:00) |
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Post by timber on Mar 6, 2012 13:42:30 GMT -5
An an update I called TatTao USA in Indiana, and spoke to a gentleman in customer service and after I said the dealer's name he said he personally handles that dealer's accounts and that the paperwork likely went out last Thursday to the dealer to complete and mail to me. He said they DID have a backlog around and just after Xmas as they sent out a LOT of units, but they were all caught up on the paperwork and they mail them out right away. He said if I don't receive it in a few days to call the dealer or them back. So if what he says is correct, I should get the paperwork real soon. Meanwhile I'm judiciously riding the scooter to work, small town I know which officer hangs out where, whene, and where they park for lunch hour, so wearing a helmet and having the required red flag I won't draw attention to myself. Even tho the helmet is not required the scooter sort of looks at first glance like a motorcycle, and seeing a rider on what looks like a motorcycle not wearing the required helmet would certainly draw attention to myself, and then they'd notice no plate on the back for sure ; I think the fine is like $10, I'd likely get a warning as the cops here are real nice, the chief used to work where I work and he's real nice, so at least here they arent traffic ticket nazis and they do let a lot of stuff slide. In fact, Ive lived here 13 years and I have never once been stopped for anything, not even a routine license check etc etc, but I don't want to push my luck  |
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Post by terrilee on Mar 6, 2012 15:42:27 GMT -5
this is what a dealer { drop ship dealer}
told me.
the reason they dont include the paperwork with the bike
is the paper work disappears, some where in the line of all the people touching it from point A to B to C to D to finally u.
so they either mail 'em to the dealer or directly to u.
but ya know with all the mail the USPS looses im sure that problem has happened alot also
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Post by timber on Mar 6, 2012 20:04:48 GMT -5
this is what a dealer { drop ship dealer} told me. the reason they dont include the paperwork with the bike is the paper work disappears, some where in the line of all the people touching it from point A to B to C to D to finally u. Yeah it can get lost, but I would think that they could stick the papers inside the package they store in the seat with the owner's manual and the packages of nuts, bolts, mirrors and rack- all of that gets through just fine. But I suppose someone at the warehouse/shipping area could STEAL the papers if they were placed in that compartment- to use or sell on the black market or something, who knows. |
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Post by mainepeace on Mar 6, 2012 21:27:45 GMT -5
The reason is theft. Like you never leave your title in the car glove box.
Greg
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Post by timber on Mar 14, 2012 13:00:35 GMT -5
As a sort of an update, nothing has of yet come in the mail, so I called TaoTaoUSA and left a voice message for the guy I talked to before, and I live chatted the support on Mahler/scooterdoc's web site, and the agent claimed they hadn't rec's any titles from TaoTao in over 2 weeks, and to email support@ so I did that now, and made it clear that my state's 30 day window to register a new vehicle expires in about one week and that I need an affirmative day I will receive the paperwork, otherwise I regret to say I will have to file a dispute with my credit card issuer until the matter is resolved.
It was 8 days ago I called TaoTaoUSA and they said they were all caught up and that the paperwork went to Mahler Thursday before I called- that woudl be March 1st they claimed to have sent the papers to the dealer, and the dealer is claiming they've received nothing in over 2 weeks.
We'll see what I learn tonight.
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Post by beachbum on Mar 14, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -5
Wow!!!..sorry you are getting jerked around. Unbelievable!
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Post by terrilee on Mar 14, 2012 13:37:44 GMT -5
yea
such a shame
i feel for u
now im soooooo glad
i bought at a B&M store
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Post by timber on Mar 14, 2012 19:50:07 GMT -5
Thanks beachbum, oh it'll work out, I have the power of my credit card issuer behind me if I choose to file a dispute, still annoying not to have all the proper paperwork in hand in a timely manner as expected, but I'm not concerned.
My state will title and license a vehicle without the title, but it's a big hassle in that you have to post a cash bond or buy a bond equal to I think it says 1-1/2 times the value of the vehicle. Then the state holds that for 3 YEARS, after which they issue you a clear title etc.
So worst case scenario I get my credit card to reverse the $619, and I do the bond thing.
But I don't see it going anywhere near that far.
Here is what I rec'd to my email today from the dealer owner, edited for privacy;
"I'm very sorry about the delay with your MSO. To be able to get a speedy resolution, I need to know the VIN# on your scooter. That will make the process of getting your MSO to you as quickly as possible.
Thank you for your patience,"
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Post by timber on Mar 17, 2012 18:08:16 GMT -5
I rec'd an email today, and hopefully this will come to pass next week;
"Sorry for the delay with your paperwork. We will send out your MSO and bill of sale next week.
Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with,"
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Post by terrilee on Mar 17, 2012 18:17:49 GMT -5
" sending smoke' 4 ya
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Post by timber on Mar 17, 2012 18:48:37 GMT -5
\0/
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Post by terry on Mar 17, 2012 19:01:04 GMT -5
It is a pain in the neck. I live in PA, the dealer was in CA, and the scooter shipped from TX. I got the scooter quicker than expected. I had to request the MSO from the dealer in CA. They needed the VIN number because they have no idea which exact scooter is shipped. OK. Took about one week to get the papers from California to Pennsylvania. But I did not realize that the MSO had not been notarized by the dealer. So it was useless in PA. I had to send the MSO back to the dealer and pay for them to have it notarized and they wait for it to be sent back to me. Then dealing with DMV was another story! All together it took over two months to get my scoot tagged!
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Post by timber on Mar 17, 2012 21:58:52 GMT -5
Ugh Terry, what a pain that sounds like!
I never heard of having to get that notarized, that's insane, especially since we aren't talking about a $45,000 truck or something here!
I called the county treasurers office Friday to make sure I have 30 days as I was told by a co-worker whose last jobw as with the state patrol, and the lady had to yell over to someone else in the office and ask if 49cc has to be registered HAHA.
Where I live, when you want a building permit like the one I needed to add a room onto my house, you go in with a sketch of your property and the proposed addition, and some basic measurements to the property line, to city hall, pay $5 and after the council votes you get your permit.
I added the room on, and that was it, no inspectors and all that garbage, so hopefully the process for the scooter will be easy.
When I bought my current car used, I went in June or so for the registration etc and they asked if I wanted the registration to expire on my birthday like my license, I said, yeah ok, thinking they'd pro-rate it somehow, adding 6 months on at the extra cost to do it, paying for 18 months then. Well I didn't know it till afterwards about the little scam there till I realized the registration expired in SIX months and that I was charged for the full YEAR! Pissed me off but I didn't want to create a scene and the annual fee is only $38 anyway, still, what a joke!
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Post by rapidjim on Mar 19, 2012 10:26:58 GMT -5
I am glad I deal with Roketa and Ice Bear. I have the MCO usually before the customer gets the machine and mail it out the same day.
Both Roketa and IB send the MCO out the day after shipping. They know what the VIN is when it shippied. In most cases it is on the box. Never had to request and MCO.
Jim
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Post by timber on Mar 19, 2012 19:44:20 GMT -5
I am glad I deal with Roketa and Ice Bear. I have the MCO usually before the customer gets the machine and mail it out the same day. Both Roketa and IB send the MCO out the day after shipping. They know what the VIN is when it shippied. In most cases it is on the box. Never had to request and MCO. Jim As long as the customer GETS the paperwork before the grace period of driving without plates expires, it doesn't really matter, in fact, if you use up most of the 30 day grace period here before registering, it's essentially getting a free month, or 13 months driving for 12 mo fee. Had I gotten the paperwork with the shipment, I'd be almost a month into my paid up registration right about now. What I DO object to is being told one thing by the dealer and another thing by the factory, and then waiting and waiting, no contact untill I email saying I need an affirmative DATE I will get the papers or when the 30 days grace expires I will file a credit card dispute till it's settled- seemed to be the only way to get a response. I was told last week that the papers will come THIS week, and Friday is the 30th day, Saturday I'm filing a dispute if the paperwork isn't in my mailbox by Friday at noon when I check it. The power of the credit card issuer to reverse payment and issue a full refund in most cases is all the consumer has behind them. Had they posted on their web site that the papers would be delayed, I would have had the choice of deciding to wait, call to learn how long, or going elsewhere, but they didn't do that. A dealer should/would have the complete paperwork in hand if they directly sell, but this one appears to just call or fax in the order to the plant in Indiana who does the actual drop-shipping. It shouldn't take even a business week to get the papers to the dealer, and that long to the customer- 2 weeks, it certainly should not take a MONTH. |
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Post by flu on Mar 22, 2012 5:44:19 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat. I purchased my taotao 2/24 and it's now 3/22 and no papers. As far as talking with the BBB don't waste your time they are a private company with no government affiliation. So the only power they have is a poor review! 20/20 did an episode on the BBB. The FTC is the only gov. agency for consumers.
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Post by timber on Mar 22, 2012 12:57:41 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat. I purchased my taotao 2/24 and it's now 3/22 and no papers. As far as talking with the BBB don't waste your time they are a private company with no government affiliation. So the only power they have is a poor review! 20/20 did an episode on the BBB. The FTC is the only gov. agency for consumers. The BBB is limited, you'd be best served going directly to your credit card issuer and filing a dispute, which I plan to do tomorrow night if the mail doesn't bring the papers tomorrow. 30 days is plenty long enough and I gave the deal more than ample notice to get their act together. You have 60 days to file a dispute, so be sure to do it sooner than later and make sure you have all documents and correspondence saved. Filing a dispute with your credit card is best, and will get a response- guaranteed because the credit card issuer has the ability to reverse the charges and re-credit them back into your account as well as charge the merchant a charge-back fee. |
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Post by daddue11 on Mar 22, 2012 13:46:15 GMT -5
I'm very sorry for your predicament. When I baught my 300cc Sunny reverse trike last Saturday they had all my papers ready for me to register and get my tags on monday morning.
That might be one of the advantages of buying at a shop over buying from the internet. I really have to give kudos to the shop I got mine at, They treated me like I was buying a bran new Corvette or something. Lets hope they follow through with the service part. I'd think I'd just go nuckin futz if I had a shiney new bike and couldn't ride it. They definately need to get better organized on their mail outs. If they promise then it should be. no butts about it,that's part of what you pay for is prompt service. jmo.
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Post by daddue11 on Mar 22, 2012 13:52:37 GMT -5
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Post by timber on Mar 22, 2012 20:07:11 GMT -5
I'm very sorry for your predicament. When I baught my 300cc Sunny reverse trike last Saturday they had all my papers ready for me to register and get my tags on monday morning. That might be one of the advantages of buying at a shop over buying from the internet.. Thanks, I', real happy you got good service through your dealer. Yes, I know, dealer is better if you don't mind paying another $250 over the actual price for them to do what you can do yourself, and IF you happen to HAVE a dealer within 100 miles of your home. There are no dealers where I live any closer than a 2 hour drive one way. I buy EVERYTHING on-line, even my dog's dog food I purchase and have shipped to my door. On ebay I've bought tens of thousands of dollars worth of antiques over the years, one ebay seller I contacted off-ebay about a long expired ad he had, and he still had it, I made an offer for it, he accepted, I used an escrow service to pay for it, and I hired a UPS store to go get the item, crate and ship it to me. Total cost was almost $5,000, it arrived in perfect condition, exactly as it left the seller's house, not one bad transaction, not a single one! I've bought many many things on line, paints, art supplies, business items, books, machines, household goods, CD's used computers, printers, electrinocs, you name it, I cannot think of a single instance where an iten was misrepresented, arrived not as described, or had any problems at all. Even the used MACs I have bought on ebay all performed perfectly, as described, shipped right away, no problems. I've purchased antique stained glass windows, small antique bronze sculptures from people in the UK. I've shipped my artwork to France, Canada, all over the United States for the last 13 years, not one client's check bounced, not one client ever disputed their paypal payment or asked for a refund. I've had a couple of three items poorly packed that arrived damaged, but that happens. Given a 100% PERFECT 13+ year on-line purchasing and selling record, why on earth would I have ANY misgivings about so simple a purchase as one involving a scooter, paid for with a credit card- my end of the deal completed in full no question there and received in good condition via truck? I did a search before buying and found ZERO complaints of any kind about this dealer with the BBB or on any web site postings. I found ten BBB complaints against TaoTaoUSA, and almost all of them were minor warrantee related issues. I bought the scooter figuring the warantee is worthless anyway since there are no dealers here I could even take it to for repairs, so I don't care about the warantee. But I never in a million years thought I would STILL be sitting here a month later waiting for even a stupid BILL OF SALE, but also the certificate from TaoTao. So am I just the FIRST Mahler motorsports/scooterdoctor sucker or is it just that no one else has ever complained about them before now? I filed the dispute this evening to get it started since it won't actually go through the business office till tomorrow anyway. Even though I have the scooter in hand, if it can't be driven on the road it's pretty much worthless, so the dispute asks for a full refund of $619.95 as that's how the dispute form works- you can't ask for "papers" with the form, but the full refund portion will get the dealer's attention fast, all I really WANT is the stupid paperwork! Hey, I fully understand things happen, sometimes mistakes happen, mail gets lost, no problem, it happens... but this has gone beyond a simple initial mistake that should be corrected in a timely way.
Thank you for contacting us to dispute a charge on your credit card account.
Here’s helpful information to know as we begin researching your billing dispute:
While we are working on your dispute, you do not have to pay for the disputed amount and no interest will be charged on that amount.
We will contact you in three to five business days to advise you on the status of the dispute or to request additional information. You will receive a letter from us and/or a message sent to your Secure Message Center. If needed, we may also contact you by phone.
We may request copies of all documents related to your dispute, such as a receipt, credit slip or other items. We may also contact the merchant for information related to the charge
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Post by terrilee on Mar 22, 2012 20:14:38 GMT -5
when your right, your right.
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Post by timber on Mar 22, 2012 20:32:54 GMT -5
You know the more I think about it,the madder I get. If you owed the same company payments and didn't make them on time,you KNOW that THEY wouldn't wait patiently,hell no they'd turn you in to a credit agency or worse they'd reposess your ride.  Oh you KNOW they would!!! just like if your checking acct is overdrawn by 2 cents they will sock you with a $18-$28 or whatever bounced check charge. We consumers do have power, but not everyone knows how to use it. If the dealer knew me personally, he would have had those papers in my hands 3 weeks ago! I'm the kind that I'm REAL easy going, mild manered, very polite and kind, things roll off my back, but if you screw me just once- watch out! The last guy that tried that was a UPS store I paid about $300 to get 2 antiques for me from a live auction house (they dont ship), I specifically told them what I wanted- DOUBLE boxed, lots of packing, $900 insurance. The boxes came and it was a total disaster! They not only didnt double box them, they jammed them into 2 boxes that were too small to begin with, dumped in some scraps of paper and a handfull of waybill envelops for "packing", oh, and they were NOT insured at all, except for the included $100!! They weighed 85# each. Both were destroyed in shipping. Long story shorter, the UPSstore owner acted like it was no big deal and that UPS claims would take care of it! Fine thing, do a crappy packing job and then let the head shipping co- an innocent victim in that pay the $1200 damage claim! I filed complaints with the UPS corporate offices since the UPSstore is their franchisee, claims dept, BBB and others. Well, NO they didn't pay because the insurance was only $100 on them and the photos showed the packing didn't even meet MINIMUM requirements. UPS kept telling me to contact the shipper. The UPSstore owner finally sent me a check that he claimed was from UPS for my $1200 damage claim, it was in the amount of $125 or so dollars. I said, fine, now where's the other $1100 you owe me? According to him, the claim was fully paid, he was sorry but offered a discount on my next shipment! Ok, that's how he wanted to play it, so I played hardball I was pissed, these were sentimental items in that they were once MINE, I had sold them years before and found then in this auction and wanted them back, they were worth more than I had paid for them, and irreplaceable. I purchased a domain name, upsstore(number)sucks.com and I put all of the documentation and photos up on a web page there. Then I sent every one of his competing UPSstores in his Philadelpha general location, the UPS corporate offices, him, the university where his store was located, and others all cc'd- an email outlining my complaint and the problem, and I included the URL to the pictures and all that. I directly embarassed him majorly in front of every one of his competitors in a 50 mile radius of his business, and within HOURS he was back at me telling me he would send a check next day air if I would take down that web site ASAP. I said you send me the check and when I GET the check, the site and in fact the domain will come down. I got a check next day air for the total amount due on my damage claim- every penny, paid for out of his own business account and I took the site down, case closed. Near as I figure, his store in a college campus, he hired some teens/20 somethings from the college for minimum wage/no experience, and they packed these up. It was the worst packing I ever saw, a 5 year old child would have more sense, they dumped them in boxes too small and forgot to add the $900 insurance, and sent then on their way to disaster. But he wound up biting the cost out of his own pocket, I clearly had all the communications in writing where I stated I wanted $900 additional insurance, double boxes, lots of packing even if it was extra, etc. If it comes down to having to do that again, then this dealer will see the shock and awe job I'll do on him, and I'll have those papers before the next business day! |
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