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Post by Scooter Boy on Dec 13, 2011 19:17:18 GMT -5
Larry,
Glad I could help.
I hope it helps some with your starting problem.
Make sure you get the cap screwed all the way on the wire.
Let me know if you need anything else.
Keep in touch.
John
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Post by larry001964 on Dec 14, 2011 11:59:52 GMT -5
Hi John,
The hotter coil did seem to help, was a little easier starting today but still had to use the kick.. Took Fawkes for a 8 mile run, and checked the plug, seems to be running a little rich.. Will take a bit to dial him in as well as Ladybug was dialed in..
Variator definitely needs heaver weights 6.0 grams too light, Here's a test run video of the scooter showing the type of driving required here in Fulton..
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Post by larry001964 on Dec 16, 2011 1:28:11 GMT -5
Here's a test run video, this was not for speed but just to break it in type run. It shows the kinda driving in my area, all hwy.. it was a no traffic day but on 25 it sees a lot of traffic..
Any way here's the video
Ill make another video with better quality this was my first and the camera setting was a little wrong... but enjoy ;D
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Post by larry001964 on Dec 16, 2011 12:20:52 GMT -5
Well with higher Horse power comes eating more fuel,
Tried to make better video but ended up walking 2 miles because I was not smart enough to bring my cellphone.... duuuuuu
You might want to turn off your sound the wind noise is pretty bad..
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Post by larry001964 on Dec 18, 2011 17:04:54 GMT -5
Hi dawgs, I have a speed correction. 65 MPH just didn't seem right to me, so i marked out 4 miles then timed how long it took to drive it. I still had throttle to go but I was at 8000 on my tach and didn't push any harder..
Here are my results.
4 miles. took me
4 minuets 5 seconds to drive it.
58.7755 mph
94.5900 kmh
26.2750 meters/sec
5172.2448 feet/minute
I will say that stroker crankshaft does add more, I have driven 83 cc bbk scooters and this definitely has more to give than those.. The extra power really made the scooter a joy to drive, even more than before but for the performance I'm thinking is about that of a 150 and for the money a Chinese made 150 would have been cheaper.
However the only part left in my engine that is Chinese is the case the rest of the components are Taiwanese... I don't know maybe I can buy a Taiwanese 150 engine cheaper and would have to modify my frame to put it in..
I em definitely happy with it... At this point I'm concluding this build as I consider it done. If anybody has any questions unanswered feel free to ask them and Ill be happy to answer... Take Care
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 8, 2012 20:54:23 GMT -5
Hi dawgs,
I was not sure if I should start a new thread, or continue posting in this one as this is related to the upgrade. I decided to keep in all in one thread for convenience reasons..
Hard starting problem i was having is now solved. The solution was a higher Cold Cranking Amp battery, and doubling the cabling going from the battery to the solenoid and from the solenoid to the starter. The battery I choose has 220 CCA and starts the scooter nicely, yet fits in the battery box.. Cost 150 dollars but it solved the problem...
Front Forks were not responding fast enough for the speeds Fawkes is traveling at now, had to drain the stock oil from them and replaced with ATF fluid.. seems to handle much better now..
Next I'm looking for ideas for a larger fuel tank...
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 15, 2012 13:09:30 GMT -5
Hi Guys, well the adjustments continue... Took Fawkes out for a drive, noticed a small popping noise when throttling down.. Did a plug chop and it shows I'm just a little lean ( not much ) .... My main jet is a # 95, I was really hoping not to have to go larger as I'm already sucking down the fuel pretty quickly.. A larger fuel tank is needed,
So now It's decision time. do I upjet again or just buy a bigger carb ? I still have not yet gotten all the power to the rear wheel, may have to look into taller gears for the rear end yet again.
All I can say so far is the stroker has surprised me I really didn't think such a small offset would do this, every tweek I make seems to produce just a little more power and I haven't yet fully made use of what i have... Low end torque is very good, and the power curve seems to be 4500 to 8000 rpm, however I don't rev over 8000 even though it still has throttle to go..
As a 72 cc when accelerating as the NCY variator opened up I would see a drop in rpms, then climb again to 7500... That's not happening now, I have a steady climb in rpms and speed up to 8000 I can feel the variator opening up but the rpms don't drop at all they just keep climbing. Money is very very tight right now for personal reasons, and I'm just not sure what route I need to take yet.... Except the larger tank that's a must..
One other note, Fawkes is Tagged now, and listed by the DMV as a 95cc motorcycle... That was actually a PITA dealing with Indiana DMV,,, lol insurance was easy, just told them what it was gave them the vin # and paid my preimium LOL...
One other thing now I must do is install a small light over the tag, so I may just be converting to LED's next for brake, and turn signals and tag light..
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Post by imnts2 on Jan 15, 2012 15:34:40 GMT -5
How did you measure 4 miles? I use interstate mile markers and generally find they agree with my GPS but of course I always wonder how accurate my GPS is. I have tried useing my watch to time myself for 10 miles on the interstate and seem to get close to what the GPS is indicating also, but I would like to find a way most of us would agree is reliable and believable.
I agree, getting a reliable even 50MPH and getting there quickly and with a good life expectancy out of an aircooled 50cc 4t with snowmobile drive and all it's friction losses is an inspiration.
Makes me want to tackle my cheaply built 150. So I annouced to my sweet half that I was parking it till next winter in the hopes that by then I will have caught up with my projects and have the shop heated so - do a sleeper 150. I would be happy with 55 fairly quickly and reliably for perhaps 5000 miles over the last few years I can fool around with such stuff and get ride of the monster I now horse around.
Cheers
lefty2
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 15, 2012 18:34:27 GMT -5
Hi lefty2 To answer your question I used google maps on a road i have been traveling for years. I used to live in Marshtown a long time ago and now in Fulton. I knew the distance was 4 miles as Ive traveled it that many times, in cars, trucks, and motorcycles, even an old 1979 International Harvester Scout II I used to own, seen enough odometers click off 4 miles over the years.. lol. The only bummer is Indiana is not hardly putting up mile markers any more, I guess with modern day gps and all.. Any way I knew the distance was 4 miles and google maps confirmed it.. So from that point on it was just a simple time and distance calculation to determine speed.  |
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Post by inuyasha on Jan 15, 2012 18:58:38 GMT -5
Hi Larry Outstanding Now how did i go and miss this marvelous thread   Please accept my sincere apologies You have done a wonderful job, very nice Fawkes is turning out awesomely well built, both mechanically and performance wise  Thanks ever so much for the videos, ;D Take care and drive safely dear friend Yours Hank |
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 15, 2012 20:41:35 GMT -5
I have tried measuring mile markers and found that over a 300 mile trip they are accurate for the average, but that the individual mile markers can be off by as much as a 1/10 mile. Of course this is using a car odometer which isn't 100% accurate in itself, but at highway speeds it should be fairly consistent in it's error. In town cutting a turn a bit tight can give significant error.
Out of any "consumer grade" device I would trust Google maps the most, short of taking a laser distance ranger and measuring with a reflective post.
If you are getting lean pops from letting off the throttle, I would look at the bypass diaphragm first. You could also hookup a true PAIR to your exhaust and that should get rid of the popping. From what you describe it's not the main jet size, although putting in a larger main jet *would* solve the issue. You would just burn some more gas, but that may be a good safety margin to add with your increased compression.
What size carb do you have on there now? Personally, I would look at other intake restrictions first, like some basic porting & polishing and port matching of the intake elbow. You would probably get more gains by just looking at that.
IDEALLY, the exit size of the carb should be the same all the way to the valves for total airflow. The bend at the intake elbow is a point of discussion though, as some people think it should narrow as a venturi, while others think it should flatten for less of a curve, and others think it should flare like the leeward side of a river island.
If you do some basic flow calculations you probably can figure out that your carb isn't the most restrictive part of the intake tract.
Greg
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 15, 2012 20:45:30 GMT -5
Hi Larry Outstanding Now how did i go and miss this marvelous thread Please accept my sincere apologies You have done a wonderful job, very nice Fawkes is turning out awesomely well built, both mechanically and performance wise Thanks ever so much for the videos, ;D Take care and drive safely dear friend Yours Hank Thank you Hank very much.. It was a labor of love, and still is.. Ladybug And I went thru a lot together, guess I got sentimental. But I knew i would not let it die... It's not Ladybug any more, totally different attitude. Responsive, fast, well mannered, but also more aggressive, when I hit that gas Fawkes means business.. I have tried measuring mile markers and found that over a 300 mile trip they are accurate for the average, but that the individual mile markers can be off by as much as a 1/10 mile. Of course this is using a car odometer which isn't 100% accurate in itself, but at highway speeds it should be fairly consistent in it's error. In town cutting a turn a bit tight can give significant error. Out of any "consumer grade" device I would trust Google maps the most, short of taking a laser distance ranger and measuring with a reflective post. If you are getting lean pops from letting off the throttle, I would look at the bypass diaphragm first. You could also hookup a true PAIR to your exhaust and that should get rid of the popping. From what you describe it's not the main jet size, although putting in a larger main jet *would* solve the issue. You would just burn some more gas, but that may be a good safety margin to add with your increased compression. What size carb do you have on there now? Personally, I would look at other intake restrictions first, like some basic porting & polishing and port matching of the intake elbow. You would probably get more gains by just looking at that. IDEALLY, the exit size of the carb should be the same all the way to the valves for total airflow. The bend at the intake elbow is a point of discussion though, as some people think it should narrow as a venturi, while others think it should flatten for less of a curve, and others think it should flare like the leeward side of a river island. If you do some basic flow calculations you probably can figure out that your carb isn't the most restrictive part of the intake tract. Greg Thank you too Greg, Right now I'm running my 18 mm keihin carb, I seem to have good luck with Keihin.. Ill look into what you suggested I'm not familiar with a PAIR system so I need to do some homework on that.. As for port matching, and flow calculations, I've never done any thing like that so Ill do some googleing and learn how to do what your talking about.. I should make one extra note as the popping may be temperature related, it didn't pop before but as it's gotten colder it's possible I need to increase the fuel to compensate for the temp drop.. Perhaps I was running right on the border before and the colder temp changed the needed fuel/air mixture.. What you think is that possible ? |
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 19, 2012 0:25:48 GMT -5
I posted in another thread about the battery I had bought for my scooter to ease it's starting I said it was 150 dollars and 200 cca... Sorry guys i was in error.. Here is my battery it's 230 CCA, and cost 79 dollars,,,, sorry for the mistake... And I did have to cut my battery box just a little to get it to fit, but was well worth it... www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYTZ14S.html |
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 19, 2012 0:42:32 GMT -5
Definitely possible about being lean. Also, it's possible you were lean before but couldn't hear it over the roar of the engine! With you're compression I'd definitely be concerned about detonation, as it doesn't take much of it to blow a hole in a piston.
Hmm, I'll have to see if I can become a reseller of those batteries. They sound pretty damn good.
Greg
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 19, 2012 10:19:54 GMT -5
Definitely possible about being lean. Also, it's possible you were lean before but couldn't hear it over the roar of the engine! With you're compression I'd definitely be concerned about detonation, as it doesn't take much of it to blow a hole in a piston. Hmm, I'll have to see if I can become a reseller of those batteries. They sound pretty damn good. Greg All i can say is that greater mechanical leverage of the stroker requires more amps to turn it over fast enough to start. A 6 or 7 amp just would not do it alone, had to keep using the kick starter in combo.. We both know the long term effects of that if i didn't address the problem quickly.. So yea the battery was a kick saver lol.. And I really wanted the battery to fix in the box as i have plans for extra fuel storage with the other empty spaces on board.. As for running lean, yea that's possible i couldn't hear it, wind noise, helmet, loud muffler ( I really hate that ) it's possible I couldn't hear it. I know the argument from Harley riders about a loud bike. I guess ill get to test that theory.. Any way I'm addressing the lean condition and port matching at the same time.. Let's hope i get the desired results ;D |
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Post by larrball on Jan 20, 2012 10:20:35 GMT -5
Hey Larry,
I couldn't get that battery web page to load up (tried it last night too).
Is that battery the 9Ah one that's a bit bigger then the 7Ah that fits?
The one im thanking it is, is about 1/4 inch taller.
And what part of the box did you mod? top plate,bottom?
when i went looking for a battery i seen one that i could have gotten for the same price, but at the time i didnt have any time to mod anything.
But if you would be so kind maybey to snap a pic of the box mod that would be GREAT as i might go with a bigger battery next time im in the market for one.
Thanks Larry
Larry2
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 20, 2012 10:53:56 GMT -5
Hi Larry, Sorry you could not bring up the webpage, here's the battery.. Right now my scooter is covered with snow, and under a tarp, but ill get some pics of the battery box mod.. It really was pretty simple..  Price: $72.00 Size: "6" x "3 7/16" x "4 3/8 " C.C.A.: 230 Amp/Hr: 11.2 |
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 23, 2012 14:55:03 GMT -5
Got 20mm carb, NCY intake, 98 main jet, and 7 gram Dr. Pulley sliders, all installed today.
My god, even faster, no popping now.
Fawkes speed is getting scary now.
Its not hard to handle, just way beyond its design. Thats what is scaring me.
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 24, 2012 12:31:45 GMT -5
Well folks the saga continues..
Broke my variator today, Guess i need a stronger one.... I took pictures and will post them tomorrow..
Larry I got the pic you wanted of the battery box mod Ill post that tomorrow as well. Have to go to work now.. I can do somethings from my phone but posting pics isent one of them..
Can't believe i broke it .. I'm in shock
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 24, 2012 17:34:53 GMT -5
Looklng at the variator it appears it was the stresses with it fully open that broke the guide fingers off. Going to have to replace the whole thing now.
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Post by larrball on Jan 24, 2012 18:40:06 GMT -5
Thanks Larry i'll be on the look out for it.
Sorry to hear about your speed problem but 60Mph for a little scooter with 10" tires would keep me on my toes as well.... LOL
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Post by larry001964 on Jan 25, 2012 14:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 25, 2012 14:07:39 GMT -5
Damn, so the NCY variator didn't hold up? I'm not sure there is a stronger one out there, maybe a Hoca? Maybe you can heat treat it for strength!
Greg
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Post by larry001964 on Feb 15, 2012 10:23:37 GMT -5
Hi Guy's and Gals
The finial numbers are in and here are my results..
Weight
Me 230 lbs
Scooter 220 lbs
tools on board 5 lbs total 455 lbs.
CC calculations
Used cylinder diameter for measurement.
Standard 139 crank shaft stroke is 41.4 mm.
Hoca Claims the Stroker measurement is 44.6 mm but my measurements show only a 0.50mm up and down rise over stock, because they shortened the connecting rod, so I'm going with 42.4 for my stroke measurement.
STROKER CRANKSHAFT ( 85 cc bbk )
Cylinder size 52 mm ( Was told the piston rings also count so cylinder size was used )
Stroke is 42.4 mm ( My measurements 0.50mm additional cylinder rise in the piston. )
Radius 52mm /2 = 26... 26 X 26 = 676 X ( PI ) 3.14 = 2122.64 x Stroke 42.4 = 89999.936 / 1000 =
89.99 cc.
Speed 59 MPH
STANDARD CRANKSHAFT ( 85cc bbk ) Didn't build this one it's just for cc comparison
Cylinder 52mm
Stoke 41.4 mm
Radius 52mm /2 = 26... 26 X 26 = 676 X ( PI ) 3.14 = 2122.64 x Stroke 41.4mm = 87877.296 /1000 =
87.877 cc
MPH ??
(When It Was a 72 cc )
STANDARD 72 CC UPGRADE ( STANDARD 139QMB CRANKSHAFT )
Piston 46.50mm
Stroke 41.4mm
radius 46.50mm /2 = 23.25... 23.25 x 23.25 = 540.5625 X ( PI ) 3.1416 = 1698.23115 X Stroke 41.4mm = 70306.76961 / 1000 =
70.306 cc
MPH 40 to 45
STANDARD 136QMB
Piston 39mm
Stroke 41.4 mm
Radius 39mm /2 = 19.5... 19.5 x 19.5 = 380.25 x ( PI ) 3.1416 = 1194.5934 x Stroke 41.4 mm = 49456.16676 / 1000 =
49.45616676 cc
MPH 25 to 35 MPH
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Post by larry001964 on Feb 25, 2012 22:27:41 GMT -5
Today my Hoca Tranny Kit arrived, I should post my end results as they again are not the norm. And anybody considering the stroker crank needs to know this..
The Tranny kit came with a
1500 rpm contra spring ( Can Not Use, I tried it, for a normal bbk probably ok, but the stroker power curve is different, and one runs too many rpm's before clutch engages, Stroker produces more low end torque, keep the stock contra spring )
Performance sheave ( Do Not use the "L" guides, the diagonal guides work best, allows the sheave to open and close faster and not stay in the low gear very long. If you use the "L" guides you quickly run up too many rpm's before the clutch opens ).
7 gram Dr. Pulley sliders ( worked pretty good, but could stand to be a little heaver 8 or 9 grams.. Should note that my speed was 59 mph at 8000 rpm's. )
8 Gram Rollers came with kit ( Worked pretty good, not as much speed 55 mph, but rpm's were 7300, more power was getting to the rear wheel, need to do a little more work on this setup, as I did have some minor problems, involving the kits Boss length )
There's more to this but I wanted to get these results down tonight.. Ill add more tomorrow..
Fawkes is running ;D ;D ;D
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Post by larry001964 on Feb 27, 2012 16:16:48 GMT -5
Hi Dawgs, You know when I decited on doing the stroker crank, I expected some problems. And a few things out of the norm. but I sure didn't expect this.. On my way to work today using the scooter, 40 mile trip one way. Winds were really really strong, gust up to 30 mph, yet Fawkes charged into it barley loosing a single mph... Hills, winds, my slowest speed was my fastest before the upgrade. Then about 24 miles into the trip I heard a POP !!!! Engine still running, but was not getting power to the rear wheel.. Give you guys three guesses ............. Yep you guessed it, My kevlar belt popped, had a few tools with me so I took off the CVT cover and this is what i found..  I'm thinking my CVT is getting too hot and causing this... Since it's pretty cold outside it took it a while to do this but it still did it... That was a Kevlar belt.. I have my old belt still, but I'm thinking I need to make some more mods to the CVT for cooling, the last thing I wanted to do was to cut holes in my CVT cover, but if I don't ill probably watch more belts disintegrate from heat.... Even my variator fan is melted... Yes i called into work and told them I would not make it today... |
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 27, 2012 16:41:53 GMT -5
Hi larry
Sorry to hear that
Im sure you will have her ship shape and bristol fashion in no time
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank
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Post by larry001964 on Feb 27, 2012 17:14:46 GMT -5
Hi larry Sorry to hear that Im sure you will have her ship shape and bristol fashion in no time Take care dear friend Yours Hank Thanks Hank, Got to tell you never have I seen anything like this before. It's been a very disappointing day.... I really didn't want to cut holes in the CVT but I guess i have no choice... Never did i expect this kind of power..... it's not quite on par with a 150 i don't think, today's ride really let me get a feel for it.. At times the wind was so strong when it hit me side ways it was a battle to keep it center on the road, a heaver bike would have withstood this much better.. I really don't think the stroker is ready for prime time yet, too many of the 139 components simply can't take the power, and when you add to that the wind created by the bikes speed.. The two combined hitting you from the side or front really make it hard to control, I'm a fairly experienced rider and it was not easy for me to handle it... The stroker I don't recommend it unless your a racer and it's for short runs, I would get a 150 instead.. |
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Post by mainepeace on Feb 27, 2012 19:30:30 GMT -5
That was a new belt, right?
Man, you're not having very good luck are you? Wayyyy too much torque for the setup. While you may not want to cut up the CVT cover, possibly you could put a scoop on the CVT intake port, like they used to? Have it sticking out in the airstream to get some more air flowing through it. Also, cutting an exhaust hole out the back edge, instead of the snaking exhaust port.
Sorry you couldn't make it into work today. I'm sure with some ingenuity you can figure out the final loose ends.
Greg
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Post by larry001964 on Feb 27, 2012 19:46:10 GMT -5
Yea it was a new belt, Kevlar too... My fear in cutting holes in my cvt cover is my belt getting wet and causing it to slip in a rain or something, I'm kinda an all weather rider. Right now I'm studying the cvt cover and trying to figure what to cut, and how....
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