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Post by dishe on Jun 7, 2009 0:16:10 GMT -5
::claps:: As the originator of this thread, I must admit that this has gone farther than I expected, and I feel like I should be sitting back with a big ol' bag of popcorn and watch things unwind...
Big Guy, I respect your opinion as someone who's been around for a long time (and as someone who wrote one of the most trusted PDI guides to date).
The problem is, as you yourself mentioned, you don't know anything about Eagles (which happens to be the topic). I do agree that manufacturers are capable of varying levels of quality, I've seen first hand the difference between my adventurer and a similar model by a different importer. So, I believe you're right. But just because another Znen isn't a Fly doesn't mean it will be crap, either. The question is, how does an *Eagle* stack up?
The only way to end this dispute, in my opinion, is to send Big Guy an Eagle.
While we're at it, Kliff, who makes the GS-Tracer 150? That's the one I'm getting, and I know its the one you have. Judging by your reaction to avtech's znen discovery, I'm fairly certain ours are NOT made by Znen. Who, then?
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 7, 2009 0:35:01 GMT -5
...The problem is, as you yourself mentioned, you don't know anything about Eagles (which happens to be the topic)... Hijacking and already hijacked topic! Sorry about that! ;D I willingly concede to the fact that I have never seen an Eagle, and also, the Eagle might be less of a profit maker for the importer and seller, and yes, it might in fact be a premium brand. I never made any statements to the contrary. Correct! The TN'G Lowboy comes off the same assembly line as the Fly Il Bello, but they are not the same bikes. Both are the premium builds, however Fly has around $160 worth of aesthetic upgrades that make them nicer, and for a real twist, they are cheaper! So profit margins and levels of distribution play a factor as well. The Fly comes direct from the importer, while the TN'G is imported by CMSI, sold by TN'G to regional distributors, and then ultimately sold to the dealer network.
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Post by harrywr2 on Jun 7, 2009 0:56:39 GMT -5
Correct! The TN'G Lowboy comes off the same assembly line as the Fly Il Bello, but they are not the same bikes. Both are the premium builds, however Fly has around $160 worth of aesthetic upgrades that make them nicer, and for a real twist, they are cheaper! So profit margins and levels of distribution play a factor as well. The Fly comes direct from the importer, while the TN'G is imported by CMSI, sold by TN'G to regional distributors, and then ultimately sold to the dealer network. I've been to the CMSI/TNG warehouse. Two truck docks wide. Big enough to maybe run a fair parts operation, or mom and pop scooter shop. They be drop shipping bikes to dealers IMHO.
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 7, 2009 19:27:47 GMT -5
...Rich, what you say makes perfect sense to me. You definitely come across more as a mechanic and a rider than a B/S salesman. Mechanic? Nah... I just broke more stuff over the years than most ;D Rider? Yup! Before I got into the business, I have my hobby shop in the warehouse district, and we have a lot of folks in our local club who depend on their scoots as their only transportation. So my hobby for years now has been pretty much helping out friends when they have problems with their scooters. For those that can't afford it, I have been buying them from China for years, in fact, as far back as when they came in wooden crates and you had to assemble every part on the scooter with no manual and no MCO. I had a friend in the title business... I can't tell you how many of these are still on the road today. Sure, they have their little hiccups, and parts fail from time to time, but they have been dependable bikes for those who couldn't afford a Vespa. (Not that they're that dependable) ;D We have a big sale this week! Did you recommend this before? I'll go ahead and add it to the PDI. The reason I left it out was cost... at $10 a tube, most would probably skip it, but I don't. Thank you for your input! -Rich
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Post by xs650 on Jun 7, 2009 20:12:05 GMT -5
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Post by usfmarine on Jun 7, 2009 22:29:13 GMT -5
Ok, stupid question, but do you use this 'dielectric grease' in every electrical connection? So just unplug everything that plugs in, smush a little of this crap into it, then plug it back in again? I've never heard of this before...
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Post by cruiser66 on Jun 7, 2009 23:32:26 GMT -5
Also recommended inside of the spark plug boot to prevent corrosion and keep water out. Doing your electrical connectors is a good idea. Use just enough to coat the inside of the connector.
66
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Post by slowscootin07 on Jun 8, 2009 11:04:46 GMT -5
Why don't you just save up some money and buy a SYM.
1) You'll not have to worry about what freaking factory makes it cause there's only one.
2) You'll not have to worry about quality or different builds because they are on par with the big four.
3) And finally, you'll have one of the most reliable scooter available.
just my two cents.
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Post by dishe on Jun 8, 2009 12:03:24 GMT -5
I just called by the shipping company to schedule a delivery tomorrow!
Problem is, tomorrow there is supposed to be intermittent thunderstorms throughout the day. I'm not sure how I feel about checking to shipping damages in the rain... What do you guys think? I'm excited to get it and don't want to push it off another day, but is it a bad idea to unpack the shipping materials, check for damage, etc, in the rain? What would you do?
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Post by kymco larry on Jun 8, 2009 12:25:24 GMT -5
Why don't you just save up some money and buy a SYM. 1) You'll not have to worry about what freaking factory makes it cause there's only one. 2) You'll not have to worry about quality or different builds because they are on par with the big four. 3) And finally, you'll have one of the most reliable scooter available. just my two cents. or a kymco,, same reasons
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Post by tk3000 on Jun 8, 2009 13:11:42 GMT -5
Why don't you just save up some money and buy a SYM. 1) You'll not have to worry about what freaking factory makes it cause there's only one. 2) You'll not have to worry about quality or different builds because they are on par with the big four. 3) And finally, you'll have one of the most reliable scooter available. just my two cents. or a kymco,, same reasons It is beyond my understanding why someone would pay $1500 and buy a Strada Scooter (that despite some better grade parts here and there) have pretty much the same problems one would find in any other Chinese scooter. And if one has to pay for labour to fix the problems that will crop up, we are talking about some few extra hundreds dollars! For less than $2000 one can buy a Kymco 125cc that has a real warranty which includes labour costs which most likely will never be needed considering the superb quality of such scooter. After all it has the same high standards of quality, construction, workmanship, parts, finesses, fitness and finishing that one would find in a Honda for a lower price. Besides you are not going to put you life at risk riding them which is priceless.
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Post by flyangler on Jun 8, 2009 13:15:40 GMT -5
Well as long as you are not going to take it apart it will do no harm to un-wrap it and look it over after all you'll probably be riding in the rain anyway.
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Post by usfmarine on Jun 8, 2009 23:35:50 GMT -5
Why don't you just save up some money and buy a SYM. 1) You'll not have to worry about what freaking factory makes it cause there's only one. 2) You'll not have to worry about quality or different builds because they are on par with the big four. 3) And finally, you'll have one of the most reliable scooter available. just my two cents. When Kymco or SYM comes out with a scooter that looks like a Flyscooters il bello for $1999, sign me up. Until then, the Chinese scoots provide a very good bang for your buck, and also, they allow us newbs to work on our scoots with inexpensive parts. I've learned a lot because I had to with my Chinese scoot. I can understand your point though too. You definitely are getting much more quality in a SYM/KYMCO by everything i've read. We combine for $.04.
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Post by kz1000st on Jun 9, 2009 7:16:04 GMT -5
Besides there are too many other factors to consider about these things. Here's what Dorian told me about his Lance.
"I just posted about how I totalled the beast yesterday. I broke the frame riding off road. 26,442 miles looks like where the odometer is done."
"The only work I have had to put into it has been valve adjustments, some nuts and bolts that vibrated off, and the headlamp seemed to blow out way too often. I also replaced the left brake lever when it rolled down the driveway and fell over on its side (never leave a running scooter unattended while pointed downhill)."
So while all the Taiwanese scooter guys are patting themselves on the back for spending money, Dorian has been racking up miles on a CCS. If he hadn't done an Evel Knieval his scoot would still be rolling along and might still get going again if kliff and earl talk him into welding his frame.
Which rolls all the way back into my original argument that "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Dorian did his oil changes, valve adjutments and tightened nuts and bolts. All routine maintenance. Yes, his cheesy GY6 engine is still going strong without unobtainium crankshaft, NASA spec oil seals and piston rings from Penske Racing. So in the end does all this fifth level of excellence stuff really count?
Now Dorian does admit that he has a hankering for a Buddy 150 so he can deal with a B & M. Nice scooter, but guess what? I saw an ad in Craigslist where a guy listed what he paid new. Scooter-$2900, Trunk-$250, Freight,tax,title, registration, gas fillup-$750! Almost $4000 OTD! Maybe NY State is the hot bed of thieves (sorry Kurt, I don't mean you) but that's outrageous. Wonder why I would buy my next scoot online? And it would be an Eagle
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Post by slowscootin07 on Jun 9, 2009 12:20:15 GMT -5
kz, don't get me wrong, I'm not a smug SOB that says Taiwan scoots are better than anything else, the proof is in the pudding, I just wanted to buy what I needed and the best quality I could afford. Sure I could have bought 3 maybe 4 chinascoots for what I paid, but I never ahve regretted it for one minute. I need highway speeds and I need stability and especially the peace of mind knowing that I have "NASA" bearings and such things made of quality like nonobtainium cranks and such. I've never spent this amount on anything and I expect it to last and have faith that it will. I just popped off the valve covers to check for valve adjustment this weekend and and at over 3600 miles, one of the exhaust valves was .001 out of adjustment. Will I suggest to anyone to by a SYM-- You bet I will. Will I knock down chinascoots- no way. BTW we do have a XingYue XY150T-8 too and other than the crappy hoses, a few loose connections, bolts that just come undone for no reason, a ridulous ignition switch/seat release, it is a good solid scooter that I would suggest to any budget minded person. If you can afford a Kymco or a SYM, then go for it
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Post by xs650 on Jun 9, 2009 12:44:59 GMT -5
Slow, Good post except for one statement.
Would be more appropriate if it read If you can afford and want a Kymco or....
Some of us buy Chicom scoots because they are toys and fun to play with and the cost of either choice isn't an issue.
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Post by kymco larry on Jun 9, 2009 13:05:49 GMT -5
Besides there are too many other factors to consider about these things. Here's what Dorian told me about his Lance. "I just posted about how I totalled the beast yesterday. I broke the frame riding off road. 26,442 miles looks like where the odometer is done."
"The only work I have had to put into it has been valve adjustments, some nuts and bolts that vibrated off, and the headlamp seemed to blow out way too often. I also replaced the left brake lever when it rolled down the driveway and fell over on its side (never leave a running scooter unattended while pointed downhill)."So while all the Taiwanese scooter guys are patting themselves on the back for spending money, Dorian has been racking up miles on a CCS. If he hadn't done an Evel Knieval his scoot would still be rolling along and might still get going again if kliff and earl talk him into welding his frame. Which rolls all the way back into my original argument that "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Dorian did his oil changes, valve adjutments and tightened nuts and bolts. All routine maintenance. Yes, his cheesy GY6 engine is still going strong without unobtainium crankshaft, NASA spec oil seals and piston rings from Penske Racing. So in the end does all this fifth level of excellence stuff really count? Now Dorian does admit that he has a hankering for a Buddy 150 so he can deal with a B & M. Nice scooter, but guess what? I saw an ad in Craigslist where a guy listed what he paid new. Scooter-$2900, Trunk-$250, Freight,tax,title, registration, gas fillup-$750! Almost $4000 OTD! Maybe NY State is the hot bed of thieves (sorry Kurt, I don't mean you) but that's outrageous. Wonder why I would buy my next scoot online? And it would be an Eagle the kymco or sym frame would not have cracked in half,,ther is a vid of 2 crazy guys in poland jumping a soper 8 over train tracks repeatedly on youtube
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Post by kymco larry on Jun 9, 2009 13:06:55 GMT -5
Slow, Good post except for one statement. Would be more appropriate if it read If you can afford and want a Kymco or.... Some of us buy Chicom scoots because they are toys and fun to play with and the cost of either choice isn't an issue. if money is no object,, why wouldn't u want a well built toy???
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Post by xs650 on Jun 9, 2009 13:12:35 GMT -5
Slow, Good post except for one statement. Would be more appropriate if it read If you can afford and want a Kymco or.... Some of us buy Chicom scoots because they are toys and fun to play with and the cost of either choice isn't an issue. if money is no object,, why wouldn't u want a well built toy??? Because the Chicom scoots have an appropriate level of quality for what I want to do.
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Post by dishe on Jun 9, 2009 15:15:11 GMT -5
Kliff, James, etc... It came today! One brand new Yellow GSTracer-150!! Apparently, it came with a trunk. I don't recall paying for a trunk- don't normally care much for the look of trunks (they never fit my helmet, which I just find frustrating), but hey... won't complain! It came within 20 minutes of my kids coming home from school, so I haven't had time to do any kind of PDI other than simply removing the cardboard and wrappings (my 3 year old daughter actually helped get all the plastic off before we went inside- she's so cute). First things I noticed just from peeking under the faring- the lines and wiring seem to be MUCH higher quality than my SunL, with some rubber tubes reinforced with metal springs to prevent crimping. Nice. It appears that this model is manufactured by Huwain, not Bashan like Kliff's. I'm not familiar with Huwain, but so far it looks pretty good (at least from a quick glance). Stuck inside for now- can't wait to fix this puppy up!
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Post by xs650 on Jun 9, 2009 16:39:25 GMT -5
Looks good. I like the mini-Honda Goldwing styled trunk.
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Post by maxximtl on Jun 9, 2009 16:55:39 GMT -5
Its funny that they modeled the trunk off a older Mercedes S Class.
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Post by slowscootin07 on Jun 9, 2009 17:13:41 GMT -5
xs650, I buy toys to play with, but not because I have to, but because I want to. I'm a cage mechanic and I fix other peoples problems all day long and the last thing I want to do is to fix mine unless I want to. Originally I was going to get a Pegasus, but with my previous 60 miles per day commute and the speeds I needed to maintain, I needed more and I didn't want to "have" to fix anything and I wanted reliabilty since I would be literally beating the snot out of it everyday. If you bought your Milan to have a toy, then more power to you and I mean that That's the same reason I bought the XingYue for Lynn to teachher how to tinker with it. We will be eventually getting a SYM for her once she decides that she's tired of fixing things on the XingYue, which we hope won't be a lot. Once she gets used to the two-wheeled concept, our second ride will be a Sym for sure.
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Post by slowscootin07 on Jun 9, 2009 17:17:07 GMT -5
Congrats dishe, regardless of what the hoses look like, I still suggest you do a full PDI and follow "Big Guy"s PDI tutorial. Keep us informed of your new ride
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Post by kymco larry on Jun 9, 2009 20:34:18 GMT -5
I must say ,, it sure is nice looking,,reminds me of my scoots body style
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Post by kymco larry on Jun 9, 2009 20:36:36 GMT -5
xs650, I buy toys to play with, but not because I have to, but because I want to. I'm a cage mechanic and I fix other peoples problems all day long and the last thing I want to do is to fix mine unless I want to. Originally I was going to get a Pegasus, but with my previous 60 miles per day commute and the speeds I needed to maintain, I needed more and I didn't want to "have" to fix anything and I wanted reliabilty since I would be literally beating the snot out of it everyday. If you bought your Milan to have a toy, then more power to you and I mean that That's the same reason I bought the XingYue for Lynn to teachher how to tinker with it. We will be eventually getting a SYM for her once she decides that she's tired of fixing things on the XingYue, which we hope won't be a lot. Once she gets used to the two-wheeled concept, our second ride will be a Sym for sure. Same reasons i bought my kymco,, its my main transport,, i have been looking at some of the wild looking china models for 2nd and 3rd rides though
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Post by maxximtl on Jun 9, 2009 21:39:47 GMT -5
I ended up buying a Tracer 150 as well. I got the blue, so now we will have all the colors represented.
Thanks to Kliff for the emphatic recomendation.
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Post by dishe on Jun 9, 2009 22:09:15 GMT -5
Cool. To be honest, I've never heard of the Huwain manufacturers before. I can't find much reference to them here on this board.
Kliff, first thing I've noticed different from yours (in the pics) is that I have a tach on my dash. Interesting. Wonder what else is different. Also noticing a lot of reinforced lines here- didn't spot those in your pics. Wonder what's up with that... yes, as slowscootin mentioned, I should probably still replace them, but I might hold onto these for a bit first... they seem much better than the ones on my other scoot, and I replaced some of those!
Only problem is now I gotta get a bill of sale, etc to register it here in NY state. Had to wait for it come to get the info, now it says it could take another week to get gsmw to send it. Pooh
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Post by maxximtl on Jun 9, 2009 22:16:19 GMT -5
I was curious about the tach too...all the pictures I have seen include a tach. Also, your trunk is dramatically different. Did you order the $999 pre-built version? They don't even offer yellow on the standard version...only the pre-built one (which isn't even linkable on their site right now.)
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 9, 2009 23:14:22 GMT -5
Ok, stupid question, but do you use this 'dielectric grease' in every electrical connection? So just unplug everything that plugs in, smush a little of this crap into it, then plug it back in again? I've never heard of this before... Not really... what you want to do is use this grease like silicon. You plug up the area where the wires go into the connectors, and then on gang connectors, on the edge before you replug them. When you replug them, the grease squishes a nice tight seal on the connector so no water or moisture can get in. You can also put some grease on the ribs of your spark plug as well. Folks have been doing it for years. -Rich
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