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Post by timmyjane on Jun 10, 2008 19:51:16 GMT -5
OK guys got it all wired up, Man this engine sounds/runs good! Why does this change the engine? Takes a load off? Also what is the benefit of this mod? is it just to be able to run leds and HIDs? I wired in a silverstar halogen but it is not getting enough juice to run properly. would this conversion help make the light brighter. |
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 10, 2008 21:40:41 GMT -5
the benefit is to be able to run big DC loads and keep the battery charged. will it make your lights brighter? Yes it will and it will be bright even at idle. most likely your scoot is equipped with a 6pole stator. you can either modify it as per the link in the first post or get a 8 pole stator and flywheel. you will also need to change your regulator. the job can be done for as cheap as 50 bucks for some magnet wire and the regulator if you are handy with a soldering iron.
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Post by timmyjane on Jun 10, 2008 21:51:18 GMT -5
the benefit is to be able to run big DC loads and keep the battery charged. will it make your lights brighter? Yes it will and it will be bright even at idle. According to the trailtech guide all standard AC equipment will run off of the DC conversion. Did I read that right? Nothing would be adversely affected. Just finished the conversion to all DC 12v on the strada. Also there are no incandescent lamps left on mine anymore  Le us know how that trail regulator works out. What did you use for your regulator. Did you get 2 like you wanted or just stick with the factory? Is the flywheel puller a must? |
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 10, 2008 21:59:48 GMT -5
yes nothing wuld be adversly effected. the lights currently running off of AC would then run off of DC after the conversion. I used a trail tech regulator www.trailtech.net/7003-RR150.html . I converted on of my 6pole stators as described in the instructions. it was very easy to do, however I ended up using an 8 pole stator that I already had and that came from the factory with a floating ground already. The converted 6pole stator would work just as well.  yes you will need the flywheel puller. you can find them on ebay and other internet retailers. the job takes less than an hour to complete. its real easy |
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 10, 2008 22:30:17 GMT -5
Well good news. I wired the white wire to the positive battery terminal with the battery out of the scoot and low and behold no more spikes. Ended up capping off the pink and black for now. This 11 pole stator / 7 pin regulator is a monster combo. It dumps 14 DC volts into the battery at idle and 16-17 DC volts revved. I was questioning if this was too much but I took the scoot on her first night ride, 20 mile trip and all lighting systems fared fine. SO I am happy, the new engine runs so good, all I have is a high flow intake, racing exhaust and 115 main jet and she purrs at idle and screams at WOT. All systems go. Riding to work/school tomorrow. |
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Post by timmyjane on Jun 10, 2008 22:43:55 GMT -5
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 10, 2008 22:51:05 GMT -5
hey brother, see what happens when you ground the black . It might need that grounded in order to properly sense battery voltage. 16-17 sounds high.
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 10, 2008 22:52:08 GMT -5
that certainly looks like it |
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 10, 2008 23:24:52 GMT -5
hey brother, see what happens when you ground the black . It might need that grounded in order to properly sense battery voltage. 16-17 sounds high. I will give that a try and see if my revved voltages are any lower. So far having this higher voltage has not exhibited any ill results, however I don't want to burn out my battery, or shorten the life of the LED's in the lighting sys. |
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 11, 2008 21:10:28 GMT -5
Well looks like I can't close the chapter yet, I did not ending up hooking up the black wire, I meant too but figured it would be ok until the weekend. Good news is I made it to work, then school, the on the way home from school I noticed my LEDs were dim and the HID was starting to flicker, a sure sign my voltage has dropped below 12. I was able to get home ok, engine ran great, just had to kill the HID lamp, which meant no headlight :/ So When I got home I dtook some meter readings and it appears the regulator died sometime during my 60 mile trip today and the lighting started running off only the batt. Both DC circuits (open) only show .25 volts now when idling so I toasted the new regulator already. I really, really wish these parts would come with a wiring diagram so its not a guessing game. Guess I will contact PFS and see if I can get any answers, and will have to buy another regulator. I don;t see any trail tech regulators for the 11 coil stator  too bad because I would buy one in a heartbeat. |
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 12, 2008 12:16:59 GMT -5
Ok after more research I think I have this somewhat figured out. Not the regulator but how the 11 pole stator works. Its got to be a center tapped stator since it has 3 wires. The two end wires produce more wattage than the center wire (when referenced against ground) so, in theory if I disconnect the center tap and just use the two wires on the ends of the coil I should generate ~20vac. Now I can use a standard 4 pin recitifier/regulator to convert the ac to dc and dump it into the battery. Granted it won't be as clean of a DC signal, but I just need a 12-14 dc output to charge the batt. After checking my local electronics store I am probably going to build a custom diode rectifier, at least then I will know for sure the pinout. Here is what I believe the 11 coil stator to look like on paper.  Whatever happens I am def. adding a voltmeter to my cluster so I know if this happens again! Edit: Just Wired up the 4 pin and it charges but not when the HID is running, too much draw. Also checked my email and parts for scooters is sending me another one for free! maybe it was just a bad part?? |
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 12, 2008 22:25:32 GMT -5
Well I've been researching all night on this 7 pin regulator on Honda sites. From this research I have deducted the black lead is a battery voltage senser wire. I did not have that hooked up so this could be the reason it fried.
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 20, 2008 0:22:43 GMT -5
Just wanted to update that PFS rules!! They UPS'd me a new regulator no charge to replace the one that got fried. Hooked it up according to how honda does things and it works great, dumping 13VDC at idle and 15-16vdc at full rev. All wires are hooked up. Been riding all day/night with good results. I can now monitor the voltage with a meter I installed in the dash So just to set things straight on how to wire the 7 pin regulator from PFS (and to save the next person hours of research on honda sites) The black wire is what gave me the most trouble, but this wire is a voltage sensor wire that hooks up to a switched positive source. Usually on a scoot this is the black wire coming off the ignition, which is 0v when off and 12v (battery voltage) when on.  |
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 20, 2008 8:08:07 GMT -5
very nice!!!!
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Post by anthonyvs on Jun 20, 2008 12:34:03 GMT -5
On the 8 pole stators I believe there is a better way to convert them to full d.c. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears that the d.c. conversion that trail tech shows for the stators with a.c lighting circuit just has you eliminating the circuit all together. Then they have you add wire to the charging coil for added power. But your losing all that generating power that you had from the lighting circuit. I was thinking about wiring my stator so i use all 8 poles. meaning use 7 poles for charging and the 8th for the ignition trigger circuit. From what i can see thats how trail tech wires there own 8 pole stators. This will be tricky becuase I dont want to end up with to many turns on the stator resulting in extremely high voltage. I would probably go with 18 guage magnet wire. I would end up with less turns on the stator per pole but higher power output total then i could get with a single charge coil. Opinions welcomed.
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 20, 2008 13:02:46 GMT -5
8 pole stators are already floating ground all you need to do is switch the regulator out and change the circuit the lights are running on. the 6 pole stators have to be converted as pr the KTM instructions.
but check yours out first. my 8 pole stator was floating ground, that doesnt mean all fo them are. look at the links at the beginning of this thread and compare to yours. if you have the center tap connected to the yellow wire then you will need to convert. if you find no center tap then you are ok
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Post by anthonyvs on Jun 20, 2008 15:53:53 GMT -5
my stator has the center tap.
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Post by swakk on Jun 20, 2008 16:11:35 GMT -5
i did the conversion some months ago about the regulator , i put a fan on, since it keep cold (before running hot or very hot) and have no drop of voltage after a long run as it did before the fan scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=10003rectifier are electronic and electronic don"t like heat, so i think it's a good investement, specially with a 4 blue led transparent pc fan lol |
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Post by anthonyvs on Jun 20, 2008 21:13:50 GMT -5
Ok i was wrong about how my stator is wired. With the conversion you actually do utilize 7 out of the 8 poles for chargeing the battery. on my stator green and white give you your highest output. probably for the lighting circuit. then they took white and yellow and ran it to the rectifier. both white and yellow were powered but they ended up with a potential difference between them lower then what you get from green and white. I bet it was like 20vac instead of 60 vac. So with the conversion your going to eliminate that center tap and have all poles in series. giveing you a high potential. I guess the trail tech regulator must be able to drop down the voltage to where it needs to be. Now i should do the conversion like its states but i'm going to just rewire the whole stator. the only thing that will do for me is eliminate that center tap lead that has to be soldered together. I will take some pics but i'm not going to post anything till i'm sure i have a handle on this and its going to work fine. I scored some free magnet wire today. I went to a shop that rebuilds motors and i asked if they cell magnet wire and the guy said no but we have some here. So i went in and told him what I needed. He handed me two spools of wire and said "here take what you need and bring the spools back when your done".  I've been getting so lucky on these projects. |
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Post by gy6rocket on Jun 21, 2008 1:46:08 GMT -5
Go with the 11 pole It put down some serious juice! I am very happy with the output since the input is 3 phase AC. Anthony, keep in mind that the open circuit voltage on the output side of a regulator is all over the maps . The regulators need a load on the output side otherwise they burn up. I know from experience. So measure the output with a load on them, even if its just a light bulb or something. |
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Post by anthonyvs on Jun 21, 2008 5:44:34 GMT -5
gy6
I would love to get the 11 pole stator. Problem is I would need a flywheel set up for a 11 pole stator.
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Post by cheesehead on Jun 22, 2008 23:55:40 GMT -5
Our LF150T-6 should be arriving this week. In following this thread, it leads to a few ?'s.
- The LF150T-6 come with two 18 watt head lamps (low/high). Can the HID kits be fitted to this style of scooter without damage from heat, etc (like a 55w halogen)
- Also, I'm assuming a 6 pole stator. (does anyone know for sure?) What is the output of a 6 pole stator?
- I'm comfortable modifying a 6 pole per the KTM instructions but is the output sufficient w/o adding extra windings?
Great forum and information.
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Post by anthonyvs on Jun 23, 2008 6:51:15 GMT -5
Even if you do add extra windings it probably only adds 10% More power generation. thats what the instructions say. So I wouldnt worry about it too much.
I have an 8 pole stator and both my charging coil and trigger coil are grounded. I chose to just float the charging circuit not the trigger coil. I isolated the solder terminal from the stator ground by cutting it with a dremel then I siliconed it in place. Then I moved the ground wire over to the trigger coil terminal which is grounded as well. The directions say to elliminate the ground but that would leave me with 1 wire missing on the trigger coil. . On the stator in the instructions they have 2 wires coming off the trigger coil. on my coil they shared a ground. Thats why I feel this is the correct way to do it. It appears these instruction dont apply to every 8 pole stator made. You just have to use common sense when wireing them.
I took pictures in case anyone is confused by what i'm saying. I dont pretend to be an expert on this kind of project. I guess i'll know if its right when i get it back together. My d.c rectifier should be in today. all i need is the lights now.
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 23, 2008 8:41:20 GMT -5
Even if you do add extra windings it probably only adds 10% More power generation. thats what the instructions say. So I wouldnt worry about it too much. I have an 8 pole stator and both my charging coil and trigger coil are grounded. I chose to just float the charging circuit not the trigger coil. I isolated the solder terminal from the stator ground by cutting it with a dremel then I siliconed it in place. Then I moved the ground wire over to the trigger coil terminal which is grounded as well. The directions say to elliminate the ground but that would leave me with 1 wire missing on the trigger coil. . On the stator in the instructions they have 2 wires coming off the trigger coil. on my coil they shared a ground. Thats why I feel this is the correct way to do it. It appears these instruction dont apply to every 8 pole stator made. You just have to use common sense when wireing them. I took pictures in case anyone is confused by what i'm saying. I dont pretend to be an expert on this kind of project. I guess i'll know if its right when i get it back together. My d.c rectifier should be in today. all i need is the lights now. did you get the trail tech regulator? if so , I have a couple tips to share |
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 23, 2008 8:43:50 GMT -5
Our LF150T-6 should be arriving this week. In following this thread, it leads to a few ?'s. - The LF150T-6 come with two 18 watt head lamps (low/high). Can the HID kits be fitted to this style of scooter without damage from heat, etc (like a 55w halogen) - Also, I'm assuming a 6 pole stator. (does anyone know for sure?) What is the output of a 6 pole stator? - I'm comfortable modifying a 6 pole per the KTM instructions but is the output sufficient w/o adding extra windings? Great forum and information. I ran HIDs on a 6pole stator, it worked but you cant idle for a very long time with the lights on as it will drain the battery. the 6pole stator will have to be rewired with a floating ground and then I am sure it will put out enough juice |
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Post by anthonyvs on Jun 23, 2008 9:07:48 GMT -5
yes Jack I have the trail tech regulator. Also How many watts are your h4 bulbs ? I can only find h4 HID bulbs rated for 80 to 100 watts.
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Post by cheesehead on Jun 23, 2008 9:42:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the info!!
The scooter is scheduled to be here tomorrow AM so I want to get it and then evaluate if the lights are adequate or not. If I don't need to make changes, I won't. I'm just trying to learn what my options are if upgrades are needed. It sounds like the 6 pole stator (modified) w/ the Trailtech regulator is an economical way to get to true DC. Once that's done, what kind of wattage output for lighting can I expect? I ask so that if I don't the HID route, I at least know what the reasonable lighting system capacity is.
We're buying the scooter for gas milage purposes so any mods we do will only be for safety improvement (ie: lights), reliability improvement and milage improvement. (in that order).
Thanks again for all of the help!!
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Post by cheesehead on Jun 23, 2008 9:53:07 GMT -5
One additional question. If I were to upgrade to the 8 or 11 pole stator, will the stock flywheel still work? I've read conflicting info.
Thanks
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 23, 2008 10:53:45 GMT -5
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Post by jackthefuzz on Jun 23, 2008 10:54:34 GMT -5
One additional question. If I were to upgrade to the 8 or 11 pole stator, will the stock flywheel still work? I've read conflicting info. Thanks no, you need to change the flywheel along with the stator. each uses a different unique flywheel |
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Le us know how that trail regulator works out.
too bad because I would buy one in a heartbeat. 
