scoot electrical systems ( must read)

[jackthefuzz]

I found these articles when looking to upgrade my electrical system and convert my scoot to a full DC system. I am running HID headlights and LED tailights. the LEDs worked for a very long time on AC but now they appear to have takeen a voltage spike that killed all my lights running off the AC circuit. the HID lights are running off of the DC side, but have lately been experiencing some flickering at llow RPMs. after reading the articles I thinks its due to the fact that they get their ground from the frame and not directly from the battery.

I ordered trailtechs regulator and am going to add windings to my stator to boost power.

trailtech.net/media/electrical/dc_conversions/ac-dc_key_concepts.pdf

trailtech.net/media/electrical/dc_conversions/ktm_dc_conversion.pdf

looking the the KTM stator it appears that they are set up the same way as our GY6 stators with 2 wire AC power 1 ground wire a charge coil and trigger coil. so these instructions should also work on our machines.

( to stan!, please add these to your scooter information links on your site)

[gy6rocket]

I will be following this thread as I would also like to convert mine to a dedicated DC system. I blew all my LEDs running on the AC side and I should have my HID kit in the next day or two. I am just going to wire stuff with ground wires directly to my battery.

What I would like to do is run a beefy regulator (or even 2 OEM regulators) so that both the white and yellow AC current is converted to 12DC there for the entire stator can be a dedicated charger for the battery, which I will run my accessories from. No flicker, steady current.

[gy6rocket]

If all else fails maybe ill try to build my own rectifier Just need some heavy duty diodes, a capacitor to level out the output side, and a regulator to cap it at about 14v

[jackthefuzz]

i just ordered this regulator www.trailtech.net/7003-RR150.html I isolated the the yellow wire from the stator and ran a new one directly from the stator plug to the regulator. that will cut off anything thats connected to the yellow wire IE oem lights and whatever else used ac power. I thin tapped into the black wire ( + power with key switch on) and ran that back to supply power to the tail lights and another tap in the front to supply power to the gauge lights. I alredy have HID lights installed running off the DC supply so that wasnt changed. now I have nothing thats running off of AC power. The OEM regulator/rectifier is now dumping 15.5 volts into the battery with headlights off and 12.9v with headlights on. I am hoping this better regulator will keep the battery better charged when I get it without over charging it. ( thats what that Blue wire on the regulator does, its connected to the negative side of the battery to sense and regulate charging). Also notice the k probe heat sensor glued to the back of the regulator....... nice feature.

this week I will also be doing the pole rewire as described in the KTM conversion guide. I need to find some magnet wire.

[motomech]

Used Japanese motorcycle parts could be an option for anyone with a salvage yard near them.
They have always been dicated D.C.
In fact, this unrectified A.C. stuff threw me for a loop when I first read about it.

[jackthefuzz]

interesting note. I have 3 stators. 2 6 pole stators and 1 8 pole stator. when I looked at the 8 pole stator I found that it was already set up with a floating ground making it ideal to be used in a DC only system. the 6 pole stators do not have a floating ground and would have to be converted to be used in a full DC system as described in this article

trailtech.net/media/electrical/dc_conversions/ktm_dc_conversion.pdf

[jackthefuzz]

i got everything off of ebay. check the style of headlight that you have. its probably an h4 bulb . search ebay for h4 hid light . you will get hundreds of kits. they are pretty much plug and play except you will have to feed them DC power which means putting in a switch. I gt the LEDs from ebay as well, get Super refracting LEDs

[gy6rocket]

Just finished the conversion to all DC 12v on the strada. Also there are no incandescent lamps left on mine anymore Le us know how that trail regulator works out.

[jackthefuzz]

gy6rocket, Do the conversion as described in the KTM AC to DC conversion and get that trail tech regulator. its sick!!. its charging at 14.65v even at idle!. I click on the HID's and the voltage drops down just for a moment while the ignitor charges. its amazing. this is a must do for anyone looking to drive high wattage DC

[gy6rocket]

Awesome jack, I will have my new engine tomorrow and I will see which stator it has. You added windings to your coils if I'm not mistaken, and did the center tap. Right now my entire system runs great from only the battery, so I just need a good charging system.

Also, my system appears to have no regulated AC at all. It has 2 AC inputs at the regulator and one DC out put. My lights were tapped directly to the unregulated AC before the conversion. Is this correct or am I missing something?

[jackthefuzz]

yup thats correct. I switched from the 6 pole stator to the 8 pole stator which already had a floating ground set up. I also did the conversion to one of my 6 pole stators and did add windings to the last pole and brought the end of the extension around to meet the yellow output wire and isolated the the center tap as described. its very easy to do. it literally didnt take but 10 minutes to complete.

the trailtech regulator is easy to install simply clip alll the wires that went to the oem regulator , take the green wire to a frame ground, yellow and white go to the 2 yellow wires on the regulator, red wire to battery, black wire to battery and frame ground. its worth the 39 bucks

[gy6rocket]

Ok well great news jack, the new engine appears to have an 11 pole stator installed, should have some good output from this one. Couple things I am going to have to research though is the output on this. It has 3 yellow wires and one green, my stock harness only has 2 wires and a green. (Im not counting the ignition wires) also came with a really beefy regulator with a yellow, white, green and pink wire which is different than the stock setup. Going to start the research, just curious if you could give me any insight. Thanks -Joe

[jackthefuzz]

yeah dude! thats the 11pole stator. you dont need to change a thing! thats pure honda. if I remember correctly the blue white is the trigger and the red is the ignition charge coil. all 3 yellows go to the regulator and the green goes to either the regulator or frame or battery ground

[gy6rocket]

The regulator only has 2 IN wires a ground and 1 OUT DC line.

So do I tap all the yellows together? For many reasons that does not sound right.

Ill post up a pic of the regulator when I get the camera back out.

[jackthefuzz]

I think you got the wrong regulator with it. I have the same regulator you are describing with 1 yellow, 1 white, 1 pink, 1 green in a short pig tail. I tried to use it with the 6 pole and it didnt work very well. I believe that regulator is for use with the 9 pole stators.

I think THIS is the one you need www.partsforscooters.com/Regulator_7pin_GY6?sc=9&category=603

[jackthefuzz]

no you cant put the yelllows together

[gy6rocket]

It also came with a beefed up ignition coil, same one the RX200hp uses.

This regulator also has a different connector than my harness. I could plug it in but I would only be using 2 out of the 3 wires coming from the coils. That would mean it wouldn't use all the coils though.

Here is the Reg. quite large.




After looking at the link, that Reg. does look appropriate for this stator. It has 3 yellows so what does the pink wire do??

[gy6rocket]

The plot thickens, found these also, from the guy I bought the engine from.

[jackthefuzz]

the coil and regulator are both from vertical honda CR/XR clone engines and not for the engine he sent you

[gy6rocket]

Your information checks out with me. I ordered the regulator from PFS, the link you posted a few back. They seem very professional at PFS.

Edit: For Reference

What to use with an 11 pole stator and your DC conversion.

[gy6rocket]

Ok I got the regulator, smells of fresh Chinese manufacture.

In doing research on how this regulator is hooked up the closest thing to a pin out I can find is a diagram from the yerfdog threads.

Couple questions:

1 Do the yellow wires have any order to them or can you just plug the yellows into the regulator in any random order (seems likely)

2 The output side shown in the diagram is somewhat vague as to what the leads to: I suspect all are DC outputs, pink for the choke, green ground, red and black are 12vdc out circuits. Just wanted to know if anyone who may have used this type of regulator would know off hand. I am going to be doing multimeter tests before the output side is hooked up to my existing wire harness. I should be able to test it out while the engine is running but having the output side isolated from the actual bike wire harness. I should be able to hook up the 3 yellows and a green to test if the other wires are putting out dc voltage.

I'm going to have to re-wire the bike slightly as I'm going to move the regulator to under the seat instead of behind the headlamps. It will make hooking it to the stator easier, and i can then use the existing wires in the harness that run up to the font ignition switch to push the DC through to the rest of the system.

Also PM's yarddogbbq from these forums as he seems to be a good resource on regulators so maybe he will also chime in.

[yarddogbbq]

no order on three yellow wires, each goes to a seperate diode.
red to battery voltage, the pink is looking for battery voltage at the choke, when the key is on the choke is hot. green should be ground, and on 6 wire voltage regulators black is voltage also, this is tied to b+ thru ignition switch on some bikes. make sure the wire or wires are ground in the harness with a continuity test battery disconnected you should read short or zero ohms thru the harness.

this help any?

yarddog

[gy6rocket]

Yep, today I'm going to do some meter readings to better understand. My biggest problem is that the bike originally had a 6 pole stator so the original wiring harness is not designed for the 11 pole. A Rewire is in order so i'm trying to figure out the output side of this regulator.

That diagram I found is somewhat misleading because the actual regulator is exactly like in the photograph, it has 3 yellows on one clip, then black, white, pink and green on the other.

Green is obvious, pink i suspect goes to the choke, which leaves black and white to contend with.

[jackthefuzz]

here is a thought. My bet is the white is going to be a regulated ac source for lights. if thats the case then black is probably your frame or battery ground and the green?? hopefully isnt the other leg of the ac

[jackthefuzz]

never mind you already found the buggydepot diagram. thats what I would go with. They have done some great work on that site. BTW my conversion to a DC system is kick asss. it works perfectly. no power drops even at idle with BOTH HIDs on. I now have my lights set up so I am running one HID for low beam and both on for high beam and when both are on people get the Hellll out of my way in a hurry LOL. Its funny I come up behind traffic at night and people are scrambling to adjust their rear view mirrors to avoid the intense light LOL Gotta love that

[yarddogbbq]

yellow wires from stator are input to regulator. make sure they are not grounded (float ground). no circuit from yel to grnd. at stator connector disconnected.

the others on regulator are output or ground usually. if they allow battery voltage to the yellow wires the a diode or more (three yellow wires three to six diodes) are shorted. (only time they are input is when something is wrong)(battery voltage goes thru regulator to stator, battery voltage present on yellow wires at the regulator with yellow connector only disconnected indicates a short, the diodes hold back battery voltage normally when off. when engine starts up the voltage from yellow being greater goes thru diodes to battery charging. output from yellow wires running and disconnected, and measuring from yel to +bat you will be reading voltage however much above battery 12.5volts, so if you read 10volts the output is probably 22volts.

on new regulator:
the 14.34 on red is the charging output to battery.
the choke is on the starting and running voltage , and lighting circuit sometimes on some bikes.

green an black are usually ground. sometimes when ignition switch is turned on the black is hooked to voltage.
in your harness one wire (what ever the color) at least should go to ground. check from frame to harness for continuity. with the bat discon. try key on or off.

ground the green at the regulator.

jackthe fuzz that sound right to you.?

you oughta be able to put LIGHTS! on that machine when you get done.
you guys sound like you know the regulator/stator thing pretty good.

yarddog

[jackthefuzz]

i think thats right on the money yarddog

[jackthefuzz]

To complete the conversion after you have modified a 6 pole stater as described or replaced your 6pole stator with a 8 pole or 11 pole stator and replaced the regulator with the appropriate unit. If using the 11pole stator go to the next step. if using the modified 6pole or 8 pole stater. cut the yellow wire where the stator harness connects to the chassis harness run a seperate yllow wire from the stator to the regulator yellow wire.

Then all you have to do to complete the DC conversion is locate the black wire coming from the key switch ( + power when key switch on) and attach a jumper between it and the yellow wire in the harness ( now not connected because you cut that wire by the stator plug). This will make all AC powered lights run from the DC circuit without making any other changes to the wires for switches etc etc.

[gy6rocket]

OK guys got it all wired up, Man this engine sounds/runs good!

I ended up modifying the regulator so the clip plugs directly into the stator, 3 yellows and a green that goes directly to my ground distribution block. The ignition also works great with the larger coil that was included. Anyways I'm getting some pretty crazy readings from this regulator.

The black and green are both ground.

The pink and white are both DC circuits.

I have only the green grounded. Black is an open circuit.

I get 30v Dc at idle across white and green, and 30 Dc across pink and green.

I get 12v Dc at idle across white and black, and 10v DC across pink and black.

Seems normal, what worries me is that when I rev the engine the DC voltage spikes to about 50-70V Dc. I'm not sure if this is because its an open circuit? Would putting a load such as a battery flatten out those spikes?

I also tried grounding the black and green wire but it gave me similar results.

What i need to find out about that buggy diagram is what those black wires go to that are marked "To Black In Main Harness"

It almost seems if this part is a rectifier only, and I still may need a regulator to cap it at 14vdc.

Thoughts?

I don't want to wire it into the harness until I figure it out at risk of ruining my hours of LED work

[jackthefuzz]

hook it up to the battery I bet it drops