Newbie shopping for 250 Chinese scoot.

[cat0020]

Hello folks,

Newbie is shopping for a 250cc Chinese scooter for commuting.

I've narrowred it down to the models below:

$1788 SUNL SC-16 from ATVDiscounter:



$1895 Viva Roadster



$1699 No name scooter from eBay:



All three of them look to me like the same scooter.. Honda Helix clone engine but Reflex claone body.

Any current owners of these scoots can give some feedback of their performance or reliability?

Any problems that you have experienced or currently have on these scoots?

Any problem registering these machines for road usage in your state?

Any problem passing your state SMOG or safety inspections?

Thank you in advance.

[tortoise]

cat0020 said:

Any problem registering these machines for road usage in your state?
Any problem passing your state SMOG or safety inspections?

In which state do YOU reside? This forum is a goldmine of information, for those that take the initiative to research previous contributions.

[12string]

Double Post but that's OK
We understand young Scootpups.
Read my reply in your other post!
I think you may change dealers
A few bucks spent now may save much aggravation.

[scooterollie]

Welcome to the Dawg Pound!

Take time to research the 250+ section. You will find lots of good info. there. They all look the same on the surface, it's under the skin that they differ. Don't short-change yourself by saving a couple hundred dollars and having the potential for much misery. If you feel comfortable purchasing drop-ship and accept the responsibility of assembly and trouble shooting, at least buy from a reputable dealer. If you are not comfortable mechanically, buy from a known dealer who also offers service.

[cat0020]

Thanks for all the warnings about buying, but I'm trying to find some threads about this specific model, but so far not too much luck.

Any current owners of the similar model could share some of their experience with this particular machine?

[scooterollie]

You may not find threads about that specific model/brand name but you should find enough general info to inform you about various brands and styles. For that model, try Scootertronics, a known, reputable dealer:

store.scootertronics.com/ex25sc.html

[Greg]

go to scootertronics and check out the vog 260 hes selling alot of them ive got one comming
for 2299 it a great bike
Greg

[cat0020]

What are the differences between the 250 scooter that Scootertronics offer at $1999 and the ones that I found on ebay for $1699?

Regardless of the dealer/retailer, what are some differences in the vehicles themselves?

I've been working on motorcycles/cars since 2002, I'm mechanically inclined to fix or put together stuff myself. Tuning carbs, valve adjustments, other regular maintenance, I've done them on 650cc single dirt bikes through liter class 4 cylinder sport touring motorcycles, but scooters are new to me.

[motomech]

cat0020 said:

Thanks for all the warnings about buying, but I'm trying to find some threads about this specific model, but so far not too much luck.

Any current owners of the similar model could share some of their experience with this particular machine?

You are not looking very hard.
Go and read the WHOLE 250 section. It doesn't take very long and it all applies.
A wealth of info.

[cat0020]

motomech said:

You are not looking very hard.
Go and read the WHOLE 250 section. It doesn't take very long and it all applies.
A wealth of info.

It all applies? all of these 250 scooters pictured in this thread have the same engine configuraton?

What do you mean it all applies?

May you could provide a specific page/thread for me to read?

I've no doubt there is a wealth of information here, I need some guidance where to start, not someone to tell me that I'm not looking very hard.

[scooterollie]

As you read through previous posts, you will find that Chinese scoot/cycle products are not like those from the big name manufacturers. One particular style scoot may be produced by many different manufacturers. When the word "manufacturers" is used referring to Chinese scoots, often we are talking only about assemblers who don't really make anything on the scoot but just source the parts from all over the place and of varying levels of quality. Some few Chinese companies are like higher level ones we are more familiar with in that they manufacture some parts and source others. Some few Chinese companies are known to produce higher quality level products. I wouldn't call ANY of the Chinese scoots/cycles as high quality as those from the big name players. Some big name companies are sourcing parts or complete scoots/cycles from China but they maintain very close scrutiny of the process in order to ensure output at the quality level for which they have been known. As you read through the posts, you will begin to become familiar with all of this and which Chinese companies are producing better quality products as well as which importers/dealers here in the U.S. carry those products. Yes, you will find variation in price but there is usually much more behind those price differences than just the desire for more profit! Our members are not trying to blow you off or give you smart aleck answers. Buying a Chinese scoot is not like buying a Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki, etc. There is a steep learning curve and you help both yourself and us (when advising you) when you take some time to do the research.

[marksbike]

Hey Cat0020,
You MIGHT want to look at this before placing an order from these guys...http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/214/ripoff0214604.htm I just bought the SAME bike from Scootertronics for a little more and got GREAT service from Mike. Like you I spent about a month looking at scoots and dealers. This forum set me straight and warned me to make sure the dealer was on the up and up. I chose Scootertronics because they are also a brick and mortar store and have PARTS and for a little more are going to set up the scoot and road test it BEFORE I get it next week. Like the commercial says....."choose wisely" Let us know what you decide. Mark

[cat0020]

Thanks, I found this thread:

scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=1191016987

And this thread:

scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=200cc&thread=1174622496

I looked at the spreadsheet that was created by BobWood:

www.pinnaclep.com/Reflex%20Clones.xls

still confused about which scooter have which engine configuration..

There seems to be inconsistncy among retailers specs of the same scooter and hard to make out just from the pictures which spec is accurate.

I know there are two different wheelbases, two different engine comfigurations, but still confued about which is which..

I'd like to hear from some owners of these Chinese made Honda Reflex clone 250 scooters,
what brand do you own?

what type of engine?

what's you fuel capacity?

what's the top speed you've done on your scooter?

what's the longest trip you've taken your scooter?

what kind of mechanical issues have you had with your scooter?

[scooterollie]

In the larger Chinese scoots there are two engine designs. One is the "CFMoto design, a copy of a mid-80s Honda water cooled engine. It is 244 ccs and has a vertical cylinder with a slight backward slant. The other is a Linhai design, a copy of an earlier Yamaha engine. The Linhai comes in two sizes, a 260 (actual 257 cc) and a 300 (actual 275 cc). The CFMoto engine was the most commonly seen engine here last year but this year the Linhai version has captured a lot of interest. To make things even more confusing, it seems that both the CFMoto design and the Linhai design are copied by other Chinese engine manufacturers. Those copied versions may or may not be of the same quality as those produced by CFMoto and Linhai. Both engine designs seem to be good. There are more after-market goodies for the CFMoto/Honda design as this one has been around for more than 20 years. However, even the CFMoto design does not have as much after-market stuff available as found for the GY6 air cooled engine design used in the 150 cc scoots. Scoots with the CFMoto engine have a slightly longer wheelbase due to a slightly longer CVT drive case. Those scoots mostly use 13" low profile tires. The Linhai design engined scoots usually have slightly higher profile 12" tires. Older versions, prior to this year, of the CFMoto engine had a short CVT drive and used a 10" rear tire. The larger tire is more desirable for better handling at speed. Scooters with the CFMoto or Linhai 260 engine will have a top speed of 70-75 mph. If you want an Interstate cruiser that can do more than that, get a big name scoot with a 400 cc or larger engine.

You can also purchase a Linhai (Aeolus/Mainstreet/Superstrada/Turista-some of the model names used) 300 scooter from Scootertronics or others. This body style is of Italian design influence and is unique, not a copy of something else. The 300 (275 cc) engine is tweaked for better performance and a couple more HP. This scoot is built entirely by and only by Linhai, unlike some other "brands" of Chinese scoots that only use the Linhai design of the 260 (257 cc) engine. Jim of Bandit MotorSports believes that CFMoto and Linhai build the best quality Chinese scoots. Remember, though, that having a CFMoto or Linhai "design" engine does not mean that either the engine or scoot is made by those companies. If the Federal I.D. plate lists CFMoto or Linahi as the manufacturer, then that scoot is made entirely (except, of course, for out-sourced parts) by one of those companies.

Hope this helps some!

[cat0020]

Thank you very much, that explained alot.

I'm only interested in the Chinese made Reflex clone, at least the same body/frame style to put a sidecar down the road as pictured:

[scooterollie]

Understand that cloning a body style does not mean that everything else about the bike, under the skin, is a direct copy of the Honda. That is a sharp looking scoot and seems to have gotten a lot of interest this year. Some copies of it will have better quality parts under the body panels than others. Member "woodstockman" just visited Scootertronics today and looked over the "Vog" brand version. You might PM him for his impressions.

[Gary]

I have a Viva (different body style, not the relex clone) and am very happy with it.. the scoot has 10,000 km on it and is running great. I had a few problems at first but these were pretty easy to work through. The build quality was pretty good considering the low price. Wires and hose were neatly run and well secured, the body panels fit well, etc.

Don't know about the other scoots you inquired about, but frankly I wouldn't expect much difference between the three. You have the experience to tackle the most common problems, so I think you'd be reasonably safe buying one of the cheaper models.

[czechmate]

cat0020,
I don't know if this has been mentioned but look under "New to Scooters? Read This!!"
Here's a link: scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1181608486
There's lots of information that you may find handy when you're getting a scooter. Especially from an online dealer. You may notice that there are very few good dealers out there selling their stuff online. So if you're buying online, make sure it is from a reputable dealer because you'll will need the dealer's support at some point. Don't forget that every salesman is nice before he sells. I think that scooterollie mentioned that saving couple hundred bucks may not be worth it.
Look at Scootertronics.com under Jonway link. I think he got the same scoot that you're looking for for about $2000. He can prep it for you as well.
Good luck with your purchase!
Nik

[mg]

Cat0020. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but I purchased a roketa mc54-250B (reflex clone, but with the 257cc linhai clone engine ) from atv discounter at their showroom in Ft.Worth,tx. They sell product from sunl,roketa,and also lifan, although sunl is about all they show on their website. I was aware of their negative publicity , and was just in there to look. I bought my scoot for $1400.00 because of damage in shipping(cosmetic damage). Had it not been for the deep discount, I would've probably bought somewhere else, however, so far I have been pleased with my scoot (790miles) and have no complaints with atv discounters(except they tried to charge me $18 for a headlight bulb that I bought from scooters georgiafor $7, and two more later for$6 ea. from Roketa.com online).I also purchased their extended 30 day b to b parts and labor warranty and 1 yr. parts warranty.So far I have used the parts warranty to replace a defective odometer(rec'd a meter assy for a sunl 250-22 that was in kph not mph.) When I asked why the roketa sold for more than the sunl 250-22 I was told that sunl turned the wrench once and roketa turned the wrinch twice. I assume that means more attention to assembly detail? So I guess there is a reason sunl sells for less than roketa. Do yourself a favor and read the forum posts under dealers,the good,bad,and ugly, and 250cc scooters and up. With your stated mechanical skills, you should do O K with whatever brand you choose.Just remember, if your not buying from a local dealer that actually has a building with product,and living breathing paid employees,you could be asking for big problems. If ordering from an online dealer more than 100 miles away, stick to the ones recommended on the forum.

[cat0020]

Thanks for the reply, I might have found a real honda reflex for more than reasonable price near my area.. in the Northeast.. we'll see if I close the deal soon enough.

[termite]

Cat,

If the used Honda Reflex deal falls thru, you may want to consider another 250 besides just the "Reflex clones". I would consider one of these from Bandit Motorsports. It is basically a copy of the old Yamaha 250 Majesty. Jim is a brick-n-mortar dealer, and is rather well thought of on this forum(and a regular poster, too). If I were going to buy a mainland Chinese 250cc scooter, I would probably buy Jim's Linhai 260 classic.

My $.02 worth.....

[cat0020]

Well, my Chinese scooter got delievered yesterday afternoon. I thought I had arranged with the transport company for delievery on Friday when I'm off from work, but they left the scooter sitting in front of my garage Weds. before Friday.

Fresh out from package:



Now if only I could find some time to spend in the garage to get it all together.

[liquidslap]

Keep us updated. Where did you get yours from and did you in fact get the Reflex clone?

I am looking to get one as well.


Edit: The pictures weren't showing up for me before, I see that you did in fact get the Reflex clone. Let us know how it goes.

[cat0020]

I bought the scooter off eBay from the seller in Pittsbourgh, PA. The process was pretty painless so far.

Forecast calls for rain this weekend, I will go through the scooter with a fine tooth comb and do some mods to the fuse box, rectifier, add 139bp horn, voltmeter, cigarette power outlet and hook up my GPS power to the fuse box.. maybe if I get creative I'll remove the radio and put the HID headlight kit from my previous dirt bike on the scooter, too.

Once I get the license plate to operate the scoot legally, I could start the break-in process.

[liquidslap]

cat0020 said:

I bought the scooter off eBay from the seller in Pittsbourgh, PA. The process was pretty painless so far.

Forecast calls for rain this weekend, I will go through the scooter with a fine tooth comb and do some mods to the fuse box, rectifier, add 139bp horn, voltmeter, cigarette power outlet and hook up my GPS power to the fuse box.. maybe if I get creative I'll remove the radio and put the HID headlight kit from my previous dirt bike on the scooter, too.

Once I get the license plate to operate the scoot legally, I could start the break-in process.

What was the name of the seller? I would like to check them out.

[Gary]

Nice looking ride.

[magnaman]

liquidslap said:

Keep us updated. Where did you get yours from and did you in fact get the Reflex clone?

I am looking to get one as well.


Edit: The pictures weren't showing up for me before, I see that you did in fact get the Reflex clone. Let us know how it goes.

Yes that is the reflex clone. It is from Family Motorsports, the same a mine, even the same color. I have the Viva Roadster (same as yours), but I see they have their own stickers on it now (FMS). Was their any damage to it from shipping?

[cat0020]

So far, I've only spend 40 minutes getting the scooter out of the box and into the garage, briefly looked under the seat (production date stamp of Jan 2008) and taken off the front panel... no damage to the scooter so far as I could see.



I'll prabablly take off many more body panels to change out check over carb., fual lines.. maybe install a fuel pump before the tank gets any fuel in.

[scooterollie]

Nice looking scoot! Congratulation. Keep us posted on your pre-ride check out.

[cat0020]

I spent a few hours here and there going through the scoot, changed the oil and coolant in first 5 miles, sparkplug to NGK, sprayed air filer oil as my dirt bike, hooked up SAE and GPS power cords, took off front brake caliper, wheel and greased the front axle and many other bolts. I also removed the stereo/CD player and speakers, that eliminated a few pounds.



So far I put 45 miles on the scoot this week, I will probably change the oil again this weekend.



I put my Givi topcase on the scoot, fits all my work clothes in there and my shoulder bag.