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Post by Aaron on Jul 11, 2007 0:47:43 GMT -5
Leon and I have been talking back and forth about this for awhile now. He just got in his test model 250. Yes it's a Reflex clone but from a different company than any of us have "likely" heard of and no I'm not gonna tell you who... ;D Trade secret... LOL Looks like a Linhai engine in it. Anyway it's nice looking .       I like the color. Leon and I are in agreement that the silver could go away. Here's his initial impression's via E-mail to me. So far I have 55 miles on the scooter. Here are my observations: What makes this scooter great is the engine, and the stability at slow speed. Its seat is low to the ground, making it accessible to shorter riders. The scooter is fast, powerful and responsive at all points of the power band. The bad part is everything around it. The rear shocks are my biggest complaint. It is too bouncy, dangerously bouncy at high speed. The fact that they are not adjustable is also a huge minus. The front ABS brake is pretty much worthless. I tried to brake with just the front, it took me forever to come to a complete stop. The back brake, however, is excellent. I am going to try to disconnect the ABS in the front and see how it does. My guess is that it will make a huge different in braking performance. One other problem I encountered is at speed of 60 or higher, you start to feel an strong up draft. At 70 you almost feel that the back wheel is floating on air. It is not a confidence builder. I don't know if this also happens with the original Honda design, or has Chinese made some improper adjustment to the aerodynamics of the scooter. Either way, I felt very unsure about this bike at 60mph or higher. This problem added to the bad rear shocks make it almost scary to ride on the interstates. Also I should mention at 8 miles mark, I saw a strange purple smoke from the tachometer. Since then the Tachometer is complete dead. I will need to pull it open and resodder the wires. Although it is still too early to tell, I think this scooter still have great potential. I am considering introducing this 250cc next year. But before then, I will have to work with the factory and change a lot of things to improve the handling and the ride feel of this scooter. Also, I need to find out if the tachometer burn out is an isolated incidence, or a reoccuring problem. These last couple of days have been abnormally cold. When it warms up to the 90s again, then we will see how the engine does. I still plan to ride it on the high desert before all is said and done. Will keep you posted. (Edited by Aaron) Leon you will of course have to send me one for review when it's all sorted out...LOL Leon is gonna post on occasion about the scooter and changes he is gonna make. I thought it would be fun to watch this process unfold. Good, bad, or ugly. Aaron |
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Post by flyscooters on Jul 11, 2007 1:18:31 GMT -5
Thanks Aaron for helping me get started. I do plan to put 1000 miles in the next 30-45 days. Should not be a problem considering I will be riding it in LA. I have already compiled a list of things that need to be improved. To be fair, the rear tire was improperly inflated. I will pump it up to the recommended pressure tomorrow and see if the handling gets better at high speed. If it does, then it is matter of getting a better set of rear shocks put it. Easily done. For all those out there holding out for a 250cc. I think we got a winner here. Just need to change the paint job, some cool looking logos, better braking and shocks componenets and some other things that I can fully reveal here, and we got a great 250cc for under $3000 out the door. Anyone interested? Let me know what you think. Any sugggestions would be greatly appreciated. You can posted on this thread or email leon@flyscooters.com
Thanks,
Leon
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 11, 2007 8:59:50 GMT -5
Aaron, you may want to pass along a couple things to Leon on the scooter. The engine does indeed appear to be the Linhai clone and it will be the rising star of the 250 class scooters because of the design and the lower CG. I suspect his shock problem is not actually the shock, but the rear wheel either being out of round (machined wrong) or out of balance (also check the axle nut). The Chinese scooters NEED to have the balance done on both wheels, and the off center machining is becoming a big issue with wheels. I have never seen a stock scooter that the rear shocks were too light, but usually the opposite. The tach is a good feature, but they need to be much more durable and accurate than the OEM units I have seen. Good luck to Fly with the new model. Stan Leon and I have been talking back and forth about this for awhile now. He just got in his test model 250. Yes it's a Reflex clone but from a different company than any of us have "likely" heard of and no I'm not gonna tell you who... ;D Trade secret... LOL Looks like a Linhai engine in it. Anyway it's nice looking . I like the color. Leon and I are in agreement that the silver could go away. Here's his initial impression's via E-mail to me. So far I have 55 miles on the scooter. Here are my observations: What makes this scooter great is the engine, and the stability at slow speed. Its seat is low to the ground, making it accessible to shorter riders. The scooter is fast, powerful and responsive at all points of the power band. The bad part is everything around it. The rear shocks are my biggest complaint. It is too bouncy, dangerously bouncy at high speed. The fact that they are not adjustable is also a huge minus. The front ABS brake is pretty much worthless. I tried to brake with just the front, it took me forever to come to a complete stop. The back brake, however, is excellent. I am going to try to disconnect the ABS in the front and see how it does. My guess is that it will make a huge different in braking performance. One other problem I encountered is at speed of 60 or higher, you start to feel an strong up draft. At 70 you almost feel that the back wheel is floating on air. It is not a confidence builder. I don't know if this also happens with the original Honda design, or has Chinese made some improper adjustment to the aerodynamics of the scooter. Either way, I felt very unsure about this bike at 60mph or higher. This problem added to the bad rear shocks make it almost scary to ride on the interstates. Also I should mention at 8 miles mark, I saw a strange purple smoke from the tachometer. Since then the Tachometer is complete dead. I will need to pull it open and resodder the wires. Although it is still too early to tell, I think this scooter still have great potential. I am considering introducing this 250cc next year. But before then, I will have to work with the factory and change a lot of things to improve the handling and the ride feel of this scooter. Also, I need to find out if the tachometer burn out is an isolated incidence, or a reoccuring problem. These last couple of days have been abnormally cold. When it warms up to the 90s again, then we will see how the engine does. I still plan to ride it on the high desert before all is said and done. Will keep you posted. (Edited by Aaron) Leon you will of course have to send me one for review when it's all sorted out...LOL Leon is gonna post on occasion about the scooter and changes he is gonna make. I thought it would be fun to watch this process unfold. Good, bad, or ugly. Aaron |
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Post by scottfla on Jul 11, 2007 9:27:12 GMT -5
What's wrong with the silver stripe? Does every scooter have to look exactly the same?
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Post by roadster250 on Jul 11, 2007 13:25:18 GMT -5
With the exception of (apparently) the Linhai engine and ugly muffler, this is a dead ringer for my Roadster 250 MC-54...
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Post by luciano136 on Jul 11, 2007 16:52:28 GMT -5
Looks good. I'm scooting around in your old 250cc model. Besides a bad tire valve in the rear, no problems so far...
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Post by Gary on Jul 11, 2007 18:46:48 GMT -5
At least from the photos, I like the look of the scoot including the silver.
Can you post a photo showing the horizontal cylinder?
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Post by runrun on Jul 11, 2007 19:56:58 GMT -5
Ya that would be good to see the horizontal cylinder
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Post by Aaron on Jul 11, 2007 21:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by Javarod on Jul 11, 2007 22:02:52 GMT -5
Hmmm, definitely one for me to think about buying. I actually like the silver, its not only a good accent colour, but its conservatively applied, which is why I like it. If you want to see it taken too far, go look at the Vitality on Kymco's page, or the pics of mine here.
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Post by termite on Jul 11, 2007 23:49:21 GMT -5
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Post by flyscooters on Jul 12, 2007 0:52:56 GMT -5
Ok, 109 miles so far. Runs smoother each mile. The odometer passed the test. The distance from home to work on Google map matched the odometer read out exactly. That's one less area I have to change. I inflated the back tire...what a difference! The updraft that I felt on the first day is gone. And I have a lot more confidence at high speed and around the curves. The only problem that remains is the bouncy ride. I will heed Stan's advice and check the tire balance. If that is it, the I would still upgrade them to Taiwanese adjustable shocks. If I can fit air shocks great, if not oil shocks would work too. The fact that it is not adjustable worries me. There are riders of all sizes of out there. They may even decide to carry a passenger now and then. I want the scooter to be ready for all occasions. That' why we fitted swift and cadenza with adjustable shocks. These scooters are ridden in the USA, very different environment from Europe and Asia. Any scooter that carry our brand need to be America roads worthy. It has to stand up to heavy use. If all of you out there don't know yet, one my goals, when I started this business, is to change the perception people have about chinese scooters. No, they are not all the same. No, they are not all throw away junks. Being of a chinese decent, I take offense to the perception that Chinese can't make quality products. They can. It is just that you know them as Honda,, Sony, Nike, Apple, etc. etc. Now you know them as Flyscooters... ;-) Look if a chinese family of 5 can ride these scooters day in day out for 7 years in China, I know an American can ride it for at least 4.
Ok, back to the topic at hand, tomorrow I am going to take off the front ABS and see how much it improves braking. My guess is, without the ABS, this puppy with stop on a dime. I am still thrilled about the engine. Yes this scooter does look like the Rocketa MC-whatever. But since I have not seen a rocketa, nor do I know where Rocketa MC-whatever is made. I can't make objective comparisons. I just hope the Rocketa version is good. Or else, people will start to associate this model with poor quality. ok, for all of you out there following this story, I will report to you soon on the elimination of ABS brakes.
Expect to have another 50 miles by tomorrow. Here is a quote close out this post: A man once said, the distance in LA is so great that anyone on foot is regarded with suspicion...
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Post by flyscooters on Jul 12, 2007 1:00:45 GMT -5
P.S. Don't worry about the tires. This scooter has no name brand of tires right now. If and when the scooter carries the Flyscooter logo on it, it will have quality taiwanese tires like all current flyscooter models. So out of Round that Stan talked about should be solved by using better tires. As for the color scheme. If everyone is in unison on the silver stripe, I just may leave it. It is matter of personal preference of course.
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Post by MLN on Jul 12, 2007 7:18:56 GMT -5
I don't like the silver treatment either. I feel it really takes away from the looks.
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 12, 2007 7:19:47 GMT -5
Flyscooters;
The "ABS" unit should not cause the problem you described with the front brake. If the ABS is not defective, at the most, the front brake will feel SLIGHTLY softer but still have considerably more stopping power than the rear brake. I suspect you have another problem with the front brake. Inside the cap on the bottom of the ABS unit there is a hex screw that con be adjusted to firm up the feel. Turning the screw in will reduce the damping effect of the ABS unit. I wouldn't turn it in more than a little, though.
Another thought, after looking at your pics again. Is the rotor on the rear larger than the one on the front? Appears so from the pics. That would seem to be backwards. The rotor on the front of my Bali 250 with 4:00X12" tire/wheel is considerably larger than what is shown in your pic. of the front tire. As I am cure you know, rear braking capacity is less than front since weight is transferred to the front during a stop.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 12, 2007 8:50:34 GMT -5
You are probably right about the tires needing an upgrade, but if the center hub is machined off center, it won't cure the problem. I just ordered new Michellins for my RR250 to replace the OEM skins, but I did check the run out on the wheel first. You can do this visually and get fairly accurate when on the center stand by running the engine up. Stan P.S. Don't worry about the tires. This scooter has no name brand of tires right now. If and when the scooter carries the Flyscooter logo on it, it will have quality taiwanese tires like all current flyscooter models. So out of Round that Stan talked about should be solved by using better tires. As for the color scheme. If everyone is in unison on the silver stripe, I just may leave it. It is matter of personal preference of course. |
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 13, 2007 8:17:57 GMT -5
Just looked at a new Strada SS300 yesterday and the rear had a larger rotor than the front. Have not checked a lot of scooters but seems this is so in at least some of the offerings. Still seems backwards to me. I would want more braking capacity on the front!
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Post by luciano136 on Jul 13, 2007 14:08:42 GMT -5
Just looked at a new Strada SS300 yesterday and the rear had a larger rotor than the front. Have not checked a lot of scooters but seems this is so in at least some of the offerings. Still seems backwards to me. I would want more braking capacity on the front! That does seem weird. As far as I know, about 70% of the braking power needs to come from the front. On my flyscooter, the front rotor is WAY bigger than the rear. |
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Post by flyscooters on Jul 13, 2007 19:26:05 GMT -5
Hey guys, I am back. yes the front rotor is smaller than the back. This something that I will have to discuss with the factory. Also, I did take off the ABS, and of course, you guys are right, it did not improve the braking in the front significantly. The front brakes is really bad. We definitely will have to do something about the front braking. I am going to a scooter rally tonight and will get some feedbacks about the scooter there. So far it has over 160 miles and no problems beside the ones I have mentioned. Has not even stalled once. It does have a Keihin Carburetor. It seems that Rocket, Tank, and many other companies are bring in similar looking scooters. I think people are beginning to get confident with this scooter. Although I don't quite know where they source their scooters. Anyone got any ideas?
Leon
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 13, 2007 19:53:06 GMT -5
Leaon;
Problem is, seems like some, like Roketa, don't source the same models from the the same assembler two times in a row! That may be an exaggeration but some really do change suppliers frequently.
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Post by oldscooterguy on Jul 13, 2007 23:45:09 GMT -5
Being a Fly dealer I have full confidence that Leon will demand modifications and higher quality parts than other look alikes. We have had nothing but positive experiences with both Fly and their products. They are the only scooter we carry that comes with a Quality checklist on every scooter.
And we are a full fledged dealer of several lines for 7 years. Last month, (June) we were the #1 Genuine dealer in the US.
And keep the Silver, Ohio State Football is just around the corner!
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Post by Aaron on Jul 13, 2007 23:52:47 GMT -5
It seems that Rocket, Tank, and many other companies are bring in similar looking scooters. I think people are beginning to get confident with this scooter. Although I don't quite know where they source their scooters. Anyone got any ideas? Leon Leon the Roketa model is reported by member/owners to be manufactured by JM-Star. Aaron |
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Post by flyscooters on Jul 14, 2007 11:39:01 GMT -5
Thanks guys. So I guess the silver stays. It could be our call sign. Something that will tell people immediately that it is a fly. The issue that Scooterrollie mentioned is a widespread problem. Even with our current factory, who we source all our models from, I have seen them switch suppliers with components such as starter relay, stator, etc. They reported that once problems are found (usually reported by importers like us) with a particular part, they try to switch to another supplier with better quality. If this is true, which I can not verify at this time, then I am all for it. From a manufacturer stand point, it is definitely an advantage to have working relationships with more than one supplier. That' way if one suppliers has a heccup, you can switch supplier and not dely production of a particular unit. I am sure you all agree the problem comes when factory switch supplier to save money and put in cheaper parts unbeknownst to importers. That's why is so important to work with a good factory.
the 250cc now has over 200 miles. Lat night, at the local scooter rally, most people test rode this vehicle. The response was most positive. Some did express the wish to have bigger tires. One gentleman who rides a vintage told me he would buy this as a day to day scooter and ride his vintage on the weekends or during scooter rallies. He said, if this reliable and price under $3000, it would be a great everyday commute scooter. What a great idea.
Today I am going down to Venice beach. Will take pictures of santa monica pier. maybe some pretty girls in Bikinis,etc. Last night two cuties in a mustang saw us parking and swear up and down that they want pictures on this scooter... not the vintage onces. Go figure. The pictures turned out really well. Always fun to have sexy girls dropping by out of the blue. I will post them as soon as the guy with the camera email me those photos. Aaron, you will have to host the pictures again, until I figure out how to do it. Come to Califoria. It is really best in the West!
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Post by Aaron on Jul 14, 2007 13:38:23 GMT -5
Sounds like a good time Leon. Every time I go to the beach well meaning environmentalists try to push me back into the water.
Aaron
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Post by luciano136 on Jul 14, 2007 14:41:16 GMT -5
Haha! I don't think I'll be picking up any 'sexy girls' in my flyscooter but I have my other baby for that if need be ;D  On a separate note, one thing that would've been better on my current flyscooter, is that they should've exchanged the tire valves right away with the short stubby ones. My rear one broke in the first couple of weeks, giving me an instant flat tire. Luckily I broke down at a motorcycle store (which charged me through the nose btw). I want to replace the front one to prevent another flat tire... |
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Post by Andi on Jul 14, 2007 16:08:32 GMT -5
Haha! I don't think I'll be picking up any 'sexy girls' in my flyscooter but I have my other baby for that if need be ;D Shouldn't that be "sexy girl"? Don't think the beemer has any more seating then the scoot ;D. Andi |
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Post by luciano136 on Jul 14, 2007 16:55:50 GMT -5
Shouldn't that be "sexy girl"? Don't think the beemer has any more seating then the scoot ;D. Andi Ha, you got me there! Guess the pick-ups won't be all at once then ;D |
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Post by ispoons on Jul 14, 2007 23:17:53 GMT -5
i got a scooter 250cc 172mm honda clone i bought two from allsports got two one was damaged had it sent back.the other i kept and found it had a cracked fender.they then shipped another and it had a bad dent.went to start it would not start .called them they said charge battery and take off battery cable and if the engine shuts off it would be a stator.this happen middle of june.had them inspected and got insurance and still have not got the part.does any one know where you can get parts .i am not done with the company.any one have any suggestions.
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Post by Aaron on Jul 14, 2007 23:26:20 GMT -5
ispoons welcome to the forum. Try Stan at www.oregonvintage.com he may have parts. You might also call John at Valley Scooters www.scootersus.com he sells many models with this engine. Good luck. Next time start a new thread so more people will see your post. When you post in an existing thread like this one people are less likely to see it as they assume it is about the Fly 250... Aaron |
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Post by flyscooters on Jul 17, 2007 0:10:41 GMT -5
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