|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 11, 2007 12:24:24 GMT -5
Hello - Hope this will be informative and helpful to all and myself. I sold my 150, a great bike, purchased a 250 Jmstar from ebay and dealer, received 4/2. The dealer is fairly good, very busy and is just an importer of many items not a bike and support guy. I have not received my Bill of sale yet, should today, hopefully. (Neonbikes). Saw this bike under the name of team-guy and extreme-rider as well. Bike would not start, sprayed quick start would turn over a bit, took the seat and gas tank out found 2 kinked hoses. Then it started but after 3-5 minutes would cut off. Found that the gas hose had a little nick, was losing vacuum so gas would not flow correctly. Fixed it and able to run now. Lots of vibration until I get to about 10mph. Have not run more than 15 minutes or so. and will add more info I find something else. I am going to fix the seat, it pushes me forward too much, going to carve some of it out. Gas gage does not move. Also had to put it together with no directions at all. This cost 1400 plus 359 shipping. So it was affordable for me. I think though for another 100 or so I would purchase from someone who can give tech support and be dedicated to bikes. I will have to see what else I run into, but it does run nicely and I have power to go out on highways. Regards all - any feedback is welcomed. Thanks -
|
|
|
Post by 12string on Apr 11, 2007 12:45:50 GMT -5
Post spme pix for us. We want to see your new scoot. Welcome and good luck on getting it to run well.
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 11, 2007 14:30:08 GMT -5
Here is a pic from ebay - will get one from home - the red is much brighter in person. Havn't name her yet - will have to see. [/img] Can't figure out how to upload pic....
|
|
|
Post by 12string on Apr 11, 2007 14:47:27 GMT -5
you must first download the picture to a sight such as photobucket.com and then insert the img # in between the two img's. This is the scoot I want.
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 11, 2007 22:20:04 GMT -5
That's a great scoot, it has a really good warranty. Windshield looks like it will do a good job as well. I insterted the url? uploaded my pic to site, but then lost my way. Here is one more try.
|
|
|
Post by WarrenS on Apr 12, 2007 9:42:06 GMT -5
Don't use the url. Copy and paste in the message the img.
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 15, 2007 1:04:48 GMT -5
Yesterday, Saturday was the only nice day for a while, I wanted to take the new 250 out for a nice 2-3 hour run, it took only 5 minutes before it shutdown on me again. The gas, again, it just cuts out on me. It can run and run for about 20 minutes but when I take it out, it cuts out, once it cuts out, it won' t start till I pull it apart.
I did a test, took the gas line off of the carb, tried to start it, pumped the trottle, pulled open, no gas was getting to the carb. There is never a gas smell either once it stalls and I try to get it going again.
After reading this boards info in the 50 engines, mine is the 2nd one, the linhai yamaha cylinder horizontal to the ground.
Anyone have any suggestions, I need a picture of this engine to see how the hoses go to the filer, vacum, gas tank something just is cutting it off. Also one thing that does not work is the gas gage it is dead.
Thanks - really disapointed in this bike. Wanted to ride so badly today.
|
|
|
Post by jackthefuzz on Apr 15, 2007 1:37:36 GMT -5
remove the automatic fuel petcock its inline between the tank and the carb and has a vacuum line rinning to it. simply bypass it and PLUG the vaccum line
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 15, 2007 11:46:55 GMT -5
My orietation is looking from the back of the bike down. I have a presurized fuel tank, the line going from the upper right of the fuel tank goes to possible filter ( inch round by 1 inch deep cylinder, charcoal filter? or is it a switch) because it is California approved system is this where the petcock is or is it the 2 inch by 4 inch cylinder on the left bottom underneath the fuel tank that has several vacuum and fuel line attachements.
I can try to draw what I see and somehow get the drawing up on the site. Not today since we are having heavy rain. I need to draw out the flow of all of this. Do you know of a drawing? Thanks very much --
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 16, 2007 11:18:27 GMT -5
Hope this pic can be seen - I will be working on the bike as soon as the rain stops and get back to you. Once this problems has been resolved, then I will be able to ride it. I have some adjustments 1. the mirrors are too low, will have to put a shim in at the base of the mirrors to tilt up. 2. Purchased a good staple gun and going to shape the seet to that it does not slope downward. 3. Ride - Will let you know. Total cost so far 1400 + 299 shipping : $12.00 staple gun, tags tax and title 167.00 Quick start spray 3.00.
|
|
|
Post by 12string on Apr 16, 2007 12:36:07 GMT -5
Does your scoot have 13" rear wheel as well as the front? I can't tell from the pix and who did you purchase it from? Sorry you may have already told us but I tend to forget a lot, you know "mad cow disease"
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 16, 2007 14:39:58 GMT -5
Hello - Yes 13" on both - states both abs as well front and back, I purchased off of ebay, Alex - he is friendly but busy and there is no support after sale. He is an export/importer and not a bike person. The details of the bike seem to be acurate. But I have alot more to test out. On ebay you can query on 250cc gas scooter nd you will get the pic above. The name is: Email: neonbikes@hotmail.com Phone: 650 588 8588 x 201 Business Hours: 11am - 5pm PST user is moto_depot on ebay. One selling now 1200 is the bid bet this will go off under 1400. - I called him direct and got it for 1400 after talking with him for a week or so. Also it has an electric start it works, the bike just gets no gas to the carb. Once we figure it out, will let you know more.
|
|
|
Post by 12string on Apr 16, 2007 15:40:58 GMT -5
Check you fuel filter. Sometimes they get installed backward at the factory. With the filter off the scoot you should be able to blow thru it with very little pressure. There should also be an arrow on the filter in the direction of flow. And make sure that fuel petcock is opening, at the bottom of the tank. Good luck, thats a great looking scoot. Keep us up to date with your progress.
|
|
|
Post by jose on Apr 16, 2007 16:06:58 GMT -5
Hey Norrtech.. Nice bike.. ditto here, but in the 150 cc.. Had to replace the mirrors cause they did not stay where I bent them to. Picked up a pair of mirrors at a near by scooter shop. I do agree with you about the slope on the seat... dumb question.. but when you de-staple the seat. and you go to re-staple.. is there some kind of stable gun that bends the staples before it punctures a hole on the outside.. or does one just us short staples.. I been wanting to get rid of the hump for some time now..
Jose'
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 16, 2007 18:43:19 GMT -5
Jose' -
I am using a Sears electric stapler Easy Fire - Heavy duty narrow crown 1/4 inch. goes through, but does not peirce the foam on the other side. Just finished the seat a few minutes ago - It is fantastic, much better, stabler and comfortable. The seat pleather had to be streatch on the side to look ok, but I am very satisfied. I puffed up some of the areas with colapsable foam so it filled in ok, but colapses when I sit. Cut back 4 inches and cut curved down into the bowl of the seat, cut down the sides a bit, not in front. Stapes come out easy with screw driver and plyers, stapling is not bad, not as bad as reapolstering dining room chair.
I am going to see if the mirrors are ok since I adjusted the seat, if not may also buy a pear - what kind of pair did you buy?
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 17, 2007 19:25:07 GMT -5
Problem solved - but did not fully ride and test - too late now, will do it tomorrow. There is a 4" high X 1.5" diameter air vacuum canister?? which is on the left side (looking from behind, on the bottom of this canister is a large hose and a skinny hose (now) the skinny hose goes to the bottom right side (from behind) of the carb. That line was attached to the carb but not to the air/vacuum canister or whatever that canister is, no clamps at all as well. So There were 2 kinked lines 1 unattached line and one pierced line.
Will know tomorrow if this is it, but it did start up great, did not have as much vibration either? Does any one know if I turn the gas tank upside down should gas leak a bit from the cap? Is that ok? I did turn the gas tank upside down while doing things, gas did leak from the cap a bit.
I would definitely get a bike off of someone who has support next time.
By the way Jose', the seat is much better when you but a little batting material on top of the seat after you cut away some, smooths it out and fills it in, but gives no lift when seated on it.
|
|
|
Post by banditms on Apr 18, 2007 0:57:33 GMT -5
Knorrtech, 'I would definitely get a bike off of someone who has support next time.' Just remember you said that and recommend it to everyone who comes on the forum to ask about buying online... ( - ; Your Black canister is a an Evaporative emissions (filter) canister. It collects the fuel vapors from the gas tank, carburetor and sends them back to the air-box for intake into the engine. Your gas tank should be sealed, the purpose being that fuel vapors don't get out but go to the EVAP canister, but may leak a little if you turn it upside down. It has no impact either way... Your Evap lines are connected correctly. Most likely your 2 kinked lines and 1 pierced line were your problem. The small line from the carburetor vent to the Evap canister wont matter for performance. About the only things left is the fuel valve, something interrupting the fuel line, or the float in the carburetor. First thing to check, trace the fuel line from the gas tank to the carburetor. Pull the fuel line from the carburetor, point it at the ground, and crank the starter motor. If everything in the fuel system works, some gas will squirt out of the line... not a ton, but not a little either. If you have fuel there, then the next check is your carburetor. If not, go back to the first item in the fuel line (ie. filter) and pull the fuel line on the gas tank side and repeat the test... It sounds like a fuel starvation problem... but check your plug also. Your damaged and kinked lines may have been all of the problem as well... so let us know your status when you can. Thanks, Jim J... Bandit MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com/250cc-scooters.com
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 18, 2007 9:13:39 GMT -5
Jim J -
Thanks for the information and comments - Yes, I do recommend purchase from a good dealer whom supports the purchase. This is worth all of the money I thought I would save and then some. This is also the reason why I am documenting and telling of my experiences as well on this board. In addition, the best forum I have experienced in my 17 years of being online.
I took the filter out - that was good fuel getting into the filter and filter inline correctly. I also did throttle the gas with key on, gas line over a can and did see that absolutely no gas is getting pumped to the carb, I will follow the rest of the recommendations and post the results after I test tomorrow.
Thanks again -
|
|
|
Post by banditms on Apr 18, 2007 12:31:03 GMT -5
Knorrtech,
Sounds like your vacuum fuel pump is junk from the word go... perhaps. If you have fuel at the filter, but none at the carburetor, then something is interrupting the flow. Your fuel pump should be the next thing in line from the fuel tank just after the filter. Your pump could have failed, or your vacuum hose that goes to it to make it work could be kinked or pierced as well. I'd say the vacuum line is the culprit cuz the fuel pump failing right out of the box doesn't make any sense...
Some scooter owners take the easy rode and just by an electric fuel pump. So there are alternatives as well...
Let us know...
Jim J... Bandit MotorSports
|
|
|
Post by jose on Apr 18, 2007 16:39:31 GMT -5
Hey Knoortech. Getting better at troubleshooting.. Believe me.. I went through many "little" problems like yourself.. In the long run.. I learned much from this sight and from tinkering... This helps next time (if it happens" you get stranded on the road and do a quick check to find the problem.. I picked up some mirrors that originally went on some other scoot. Q-Link type.. local shop so save the wait.. here is a photo bucket of the bike while in winter check out stage..
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 19, 2007 0:19:21 GMT -5
Mirrors look sharp - Bike is very nice, great color. I road my bike around the section quite a few times this evening -10-15 minutes both times, this is the first time I was able to do that. Yes I have learned a bit and it was frustrating and fun at the same time. I am not finished but here is what I did -
Changed the fuel line to and from the filter, place the dangling line from the bottom of the carb to the underside of the evaporation air filter canister then placed 2 clamps that were missing on the hoses. There may have been something else but I did so much, these are the only things that were done since yesterday.
I am hoping when I test it for a longer period of time, that it truly is fixed. BTW - The seat is great now. Thanks again to all for the help. Not done yet - have to get the fuel gage to work and also make sure it really does run. Friday and Saturday are going to be good sunny days - can't wait. Thanks ---
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 21, 2007 10:39:43 GMT -5
Friday was so beautiful, I scooted out of work 20 minutes earlier, since the bike had been working the last 2 times for about 15 minutes at a shot - I wanted to take it out, got my helmet put my boots on uncovered the bike rolled it down, turned the key and pushed the botton - it was dead as a doornail, it is charging now - will see?? amaizinnnnnng --- I had to charge it many time quickley in the begining with all that happended, may have corrorded the battery, I am charging it slowely now at a rate of 2 amps. May have to replace the battery. - Still have to address the gas gage - it does not move, will do that tomorrow. --
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 21, 2007 14:59:35 GMT -5
It happened again today - the gas is not getting to the carb - found this out - When I turn the filter upright - all is ok, it flows. There must be enought gas to go for 10 minutes and then the filter shuts it down if the filter is tilted? Is this the shut off? Was it simulating being laid on its side? Does the filter have to be slanted at a certain angle. Perhaps when I put it all together something chokes off? Seems like the gas filter though.
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 21, 2007 19:40:16 GMT -5
Been working on this since April 2. After changing fuel line and un kinking lines, this is where I am --- First I turned the key on, started the motor, after 10 seconds, it shuts off. I have to wait about a minute then it will start again for 10 secs, will not start unless waiting a while. Checked the fuel filter, gas is there and it is in correctly. Checked if the fuel was getting to carb, fuel was not flowing when I detached the line from the carb,I removed line from the fuel tank and blew into the line going into the tap from tank it did begin flowing out the line that goes to carb.I know the tap is controlled by the vacuum line at the tap. Why works at times and at other times suppling only enough gas to idle, as gas is applied engine dies and you must wait a minute before attempting to start again. On two occasions I was able to go for two miles and then on next day it would not start again. Purchased it online and was delivered April 2- no help from the dealer, it is new JMSTAR - YP250 Lanhai motor. Thanks for any help on this -
|
|
|
Post by jose on Apr 22, 2007 16:38:37 GMT -5
Okay.. I am not claiming to know the answer.. but lets try this.. 1. Check inside the spark plug "cap.. look inside.. you'll see what looks like a flat spot for a screw driver to fit.. Put a small one in... caution.. don't bend the little wire in there.. the one that actually grabs the tip of the spark plug.. Make sure it is snug.. (righty-tighty.. Lefty lucy..)
2. When and if you get your engine started.. slowly shake the spark plug wire.. or just grab it and move it up and down about one inch travel and see if it affects the idle or kills the engine.. Just a hunch..
If cap head was loose, this may fix the engine dieing thing.. If spark plug wire is not sending the spark somewhere elsewhere.. by accident due to bent or chaffed wire.. then these little checks may not help..
May also check to the connection on the spark plug.. when you re-connect the spark plug wire onto the tip of the spark plug.. make sure you hear it click several times.. if it does not, the little wire inside the spark plug cap' may need to be needle nose bent a bit so it will bite the threads of the spark plug tip.
Hope it helps..
Jose'
|
|
|
Post by glowguy on Apr 22, 2007 16:44:47 GMT -5
Hey knorrtech. Sorry to hear about your troubles. I don't know anything about it, but I have seen on various forums that people were having trouble with the vacumn pump. Some have switched to an electric pump of 2-4 psi. Others have figured out one of the vacumn lines to plug. I just got a 250 tourer type so I have the 244CFMoto engine. I have been scouring all of the forums I can find to see what problems I may have. I hope that helps you in your journey.
|
|
|
Post by jose on Apr 22, 2007 16:55:42 GMT -5
One thing that occured with me.. I don't recall the steps of events.. but I have my fuel filter hanging vertical, this prevents.. (I think) any bubbles from forming and taking the space up..
I notice my spark plug wire had Chaffed.. along a section where it was rubbing or vibrating against a sharp edge of the frame.. There was suppose to be a second skin of plastic protecting the spark plug wire.. but it has slide down further closer to the spark plug.. I used electric tape to patch the hole, and slide the sleeve back up and secured it with tape and cured my problem.. (Same poopy comp.. via net.. Jamstar Corp. assembled..) I, like you, was trouble shooting gas when it turned out to be electric.
Method of gas flow.. 1. You crank the engine via the battery, and the engine turns.. 2. the cranking cases the piston to cycle and creates a vacuum in the intake manifold. 3. The vacuum line attached to the intake, uses that vacuum to open the (vacuum operated) gas flow regulator.. (Don't want fuel to flow when not runnig. 4. Fuel flows mostly via gravity down the tank line, pass the the fuel filter, pass the regulator and into the carb via the side. 5. Fuel flows into the bottom of the carb, into the bowl and fills it up 1/2 to 3/4 and from there the gas is 'Vacuumed up into the carbs' mouth to be mixed with the fast flowing air to the piston to be burned. Your engine runs for about 10 sec. then dies.. one other thought, would be too rich and that is why you have to wait a minute or so for the excess fuel to evaporate..?
Hope it works out..
Jose'
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 22, 2007 17:20:33 GMT -5
All of you that responded previously - Thanks - thanks very much for leading me to fix it.
Good advise - This is what I did today - Had a ride of 12 miles - so much fun!!
Still have to do more, but I took the line from the gas directly to the carb - did work, so I have to check all that you all mentioned, the automatic petcock vacuum (tap), the lines, and the vacuum in of the carb etc . So narrowing, and printing these messages out as I go along, but finally rode it.
Just a note - The OGM INC (moto_depo on ebay) in CA that I purchased did email me today, he will support me with replacing all parts and also got me in touch with a support tech from Michigan barron motors. It is good to see that they are supporting me as well. So I think that is fair. This is a trade off of purchasing a bike inexpensively or purchasing from knowlegable bike shop that has more timely support. It's good that we share the information and then make a decision where to purchase and weather you can take time to troubleshoot, or spend a little more and get more timely support and product reliability - It just takes some time to look at all of the information before purchase and decide what you will do. But without the forum - well, it would be very difficult. Thanks again - Will let you all know more when I get through the testing and experimenting.
PS vibration makes my eyes kind of blury until it evens out at 35-40 Have to see if I can adjust the brakes handles, mirrors, cure the gas gage etc ( this is minor). I feel so good to ride today ----- Like the Dawg says ... It's all about the ride...
|
|
|
Post by knorrtech on Apr 23, 2007 20:40:58 GMT -5
The dealter OGM Inc said he would call today about the part, We had to call him twice, we 15 min 2 times on the phone - no call back from Alex - well - that's the way it goes.
We check the vacuum from the carb - good there, took the tap or auto petcock off and ordered my own parts from ScootUsa.com. We found that the gas sensor float was gummed up and stuck, that's why gas was not registering. Have to find a part for this and an O ring.
Also found that two of the air lines come off with a slight tug, they are not correct size to redoing the lines.
This should do it, but it will take a while now to get the parts myself - no help from dealer.
|
|
|
Post by mickster on Apr 23, 2007 21:07:30 GMT -5
Your problem is most likely a bad vacuum fuel pump. Either replace it with a known good brand (from honda, parts unlimited, or snow mobile parts supplier) or better yet, replace it with a electric pump. Also I think I have the same scooter as you (Viva roadster) It has a honda helix clone motor (not the motor you described).
If you change that pump out, I bet it will fix all your starting/running problems.
Mickey
|
|