Need another 10 mph

[kabala]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased my 150cc scooter from www.extreme-scooters.com/streaker150ccScooter.htm, and I was told it could do 70 mph.

Needless to say that may true if I find a 100 ft. cliff and drive her down. For the most part I'm topping out at 60 mph going down a slight incline. Going up that same incline I top out at 45 mph.
I would like to be able to maintain at least 55 mph going up the incline. I drive on a short section (about 1 mile) of road where the speed limit is 50 mph, and everyone is cruising at 60 mph, and need I say, I normally hold up traffic during that mile.

I have the Streaker/Falcon 150cc with your typical GY6 engine.

Where should I start? I'm pretty familiar with tuning street cars, but have never really tinkered with bikes or scooters to say the least.

What modifications would I need to do in order to crank out another 10 mph.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

[ooopseyesharted]

You are in the right place.
These guys have done tons to their scooters.
Look around in here and you will get the info you need.

[medman1952]

visit the section on the larger scooters you will find all kinds of things that have been done to help out in the speed department

[Admin]

First, I will repeat it again......None of these 150cc scoots will do 70 mph. I recommend not purchasing scoots from dealers who make such claims. A little truth in advertising goes a long way. The easiest way to gain 5-10 mph top end is to install a performance exhaust, uni-filter and upjet the carb with a 120 main jet. Check out some of the MRP dealers on the main scootdawg page or give PSF a call for the parts you need.

[kabala]

Thanks Dawg,

Can you give me a link or phone # for PSF.

Also would you recommend changing the Variator with heavier rollers as well.

What about the intake manifold?

[bob]

Try going here. www.oregonvintage.com .

Bob

[90GTVert]

You MIGHT attain 70, but as someone who's been there, I can tell you it's a bit un-nerving on a 150. You don't really have to change the manifold till the OEM rubber one fails (and it will) unless you go the 30mm carb route. Getting the top performance is not going to be cheap, so consider it carefully before you dump $600 on performance goodies. I'd ride it till it's well broken in before you start adding things for speed. Just my $.02 worth. Stan

kabala said:

Thanks Dawg,

Can you give me a link or phone # for PSF.

Also would you recommend changing the Variator with heavier rollers as well.

What about the intake manifold?

[lewtwo]

I looked at the link and on that page it states "Speeds up to 70 mph". It also states "Max Speed: 70 MPH".

While I would consider it a deception, techically the first statement is the truth. It is lot like a piece of junk mail with something along the lines of "you have just won a prize worth up to one million dollars". The chances of collecting the million dollars are somewhere between slim and none. More like you will get calendar filled with advertising.

You could always contact:
Georgia Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs
2 Martin Luther King Jr., Drive SE, Suite 356
Atlanta, Georgia 30334-4600
phn: 404-651-8600

Likely to no avail, but one never knows when some beuracrat will get a wild hair and decide the public needs to be protected.

[kabala]

ndnparts said:

You MIGHT attain 70, but as someone who's been there, I can tell you it's a bit un-nerving on a 150. You don't really have to change the manifold till the OEM rubber one fails (and it will) unless you go the 30mm carb route. Getting the top performance is not going to be cheap, so consider it carefully before you dump $600 on performance goodies. I'd ride it till it's well broken in before you start adding things for speed. Just my $.02 worth. Stan

Thanks Stan,

Actually I really don't care to be cruising around at 70MPH on this thing. I just want to have enough power to go up a slight (maybe 2%) incline at 55 mph, in order to keep up with the flow of traffic on a single lane 50 mph road.

I know exactly what your talking about when you refer "to don't fix it if its not broken". I spent over $7K on performance upgrades on my last sports car, just to end up seller her for $8K. .

But I'm not looking to race or pimp out my scooter.

[90GTVert]

When broken in, start by replacing the air box with a foam filter and going to larger jets. This will get you a little speed, but more in the power area. From there, a performance exhaust should get you 4-5 mph and another power gain (but you're also getting expensive). Next is a carb & manifold replacement. Again, small speed gain but big peformance improvement and also not cheap. Next up is playing with the variator weights to see where you want your power. Most will say to do this first, but each of the other changes will have an affect on where the power curve is on the engine, so you can do weight changes several times before you hit the spot you want. This part is very subjective and revolves around preference, altitude, rider weight, etc.. These items should get you where you want, but you do need to evaluate whether the cost is worth the gain. You also need to be mechanically able to do these improvements or have someone that is, and is willing to help you. If it is, and you do, go for it. Stan

Thanks Stan,

Actually I really don't care to be cruising around at 70MPH on this thing. I just want to have enough power to go up a slight (maybe 2%) incline at 55 mph, in order to keep up with the flow of traffic on a single lane 50 mph road.

I know exactly what your talking about when you refer "to don't fix it if its not broken". I spent over $7K on performance upgrades on my last sports car, just to end up seller her for $8K. .

But I'm not looking to race or pimp out my scooter.

[allengrota]

kabala said:

ndnparts said:

You MIGHT attain 70, but as someone who's been there, I can tell you it's a bit un-nerving on a 150. You don't really have to change the manifold till the OEM rubber one fails (and it will) unless you go the 30mm carb route. Getting the top performance is not going to be cheap, so consider it carefully before you dump $600 on performance goodies. I'd ride it till it's well broken in before you start adding things for speed. Just my $.02 worth. Stan

Thanks Stan,

Actually I really don't care to be cruising around at 70MPH on this thing. I just want to have enough power to go up a slight (maybe 2%) incline at 55 mph, in order to keep up with the flow of traffic on a single lane 50 mph road.

I know exactly what your talking about when you refer "to don't fix it if its not broken". I spent over $7K on performance upgrades on my last sports car, just to end up seller her for $8K. .

But I'm not looking to race or pimp out my scooter.

If all you need is a little more pep to get up the hill, I'll bet you could lighten up just a tad on the variator weights, and do the basics...Plug, air pressure, maybe open up the exhaust and upjet. I would just start with the tire air pressure, the plug and the weights, and see if that does it.

[allengrota]

Oh yeah...change to synthetic oil as soon as it is broken in. It makes a big difference in performance too..

[90GTVert]

Oh yeah, one of the very first things to do before buying upgrade parts is to add a tachometer. This will give you something to work with to assess what the change is doing for (or against) you. I suggest keeping the engine running in the 7500-8000 rpm range when wide open on level ground. This will give you good power and not over rev the engine which will just shorten its life span. The variator weights are an easy way to change this. Heavier will lower the rpm's and lighter will raise them.

Do an eBay search for either Tiny Tach or SenDEC. They should run about $40 and they will tell you more than the seat of the pants will about what is really going on. Check the rpm's at a couple speed points when stock and this will give you a base to work from. Good luck. Stan

PS: As Allen said, use good oil. Also change it often.

[dfishocc]

I bought the SenDec on eBay Express. Here is current listing:
search.express.ebay.com/_Outdoor-Power-Equipment__sendec_W0QQ_nkwZsendecQQ_fxdZ1

Shipping was very prompt. I've got the spark plug cable wrapped, and will actually install it later today.

[drf8]

The SenDEC specs say it will go up to 7000 RPM. Is that as high as you want to be able to read?

[scooterollie]

The proper version of the "Tiny Tach" will go to 10+K RPM. Here is a link to another manufacturer of small engine tachs:

www.enmco.com/home.shtml

[kabala]

Thanks guys,


I already have a tach, and basically at WOT on a flat surface I can get her up to 7500 RPM. But on an incline, it tops out around 6K.

Allengrota,

Please don't leave me hanging. What plug, tire pressure, weights would you recommend?

allengrota said:

kabala said:

Thanks Stan,

Actually I really don't care to be cruising around at 70MPH on this thing. I just want to have enough power to go up a slight (maybe 2%) incline at 55 mph, in order to keep up with the flow of traffic on a single lane 50 mph road.

I know exactly what your talking about when you refer "to don't fix it if its not broken". I spent over $7K on performance upgrades on my last sports car, just to end up seller her for $8K. .

But I'm not looking to race or pimp out my scooter.

If all you need is a little more pep to get up the hill, I'll bet you could lighten up just a tad on the variator weights, and do the basics...Plug, air pressure, maybe open up the exhaust and upjet. I would just start with the tire air pressure, the plug and the weights, and see if that does it.

[surfbum96818]

I would also talk to LIMERACER the guy has done it ALL to his own scoot and will tell you it is not anyone upgrade that will make you say wow but the culmination of them all ( however he did say his new A9 camshft ( I am pretty sure it was an A9 ) made a huge difference

[medman1952]

I'm asking for an opinion of the group here.

I've been thinking that there are a dozen nickle and dime ways to get a little more power, and another way that most everybody will agree gets power, displacement and cam. My thought is this and it comes from having toyed with several cars over my lifetime. From car experience I have always noticed the biggest change in power from cubic inches, cam, and carb. Headers, mufflers, ignition improvements have never netted the bang for the buck incomparison.

Has anyone here ever just up jetted the carb and put a big bore kit in with a bigger cam? Seems to me that for the price of a exhaust system you get a big bore kit with a hotter cam, jets are cheap, and an air filter is cheap. would this be a most bank for the buck approach?

[woodlark]

Personally, I would think that for the money you are going to put into an upgrade like that and what you are going to get out of it, you would be much better off to just sell the 150cc and buy a 250cc. You will have a scooter that is (theoretically at least) more reliable since the engine is less stressed.

[medman1952]

Several reasons to upgrade the motor instead of buying a new 250

1 - its fun to play with your toys
2 - satisfaction of the accomplishment
3 - what woiuld you do with the old scooter?
4 - jury is still out on the 250s cooling system, I don't know the engine has less stress in hot climates

[kabala]

I plan to keep this as simple/cheap as possible.

I'll probably start with just a simple MPR air filter, then maybe a bigger jet in the carb, then some lighter weights in the variator.

And if I still can't get the pep I need for going up a slight incline without bogging down to 45mph, then I'll upgrade to a larger exhaust.

In regards to the 150cc vs the 250cc, bigger isn't always better or faster. I had a little four banger sport cars (1990 Toyota Celica All Trac) which I converted from 9 lbs of boost to 22 lbs, and from 175 WHP, to around 280 WHP. But it wasn't cheap, but it sure was fun.

The 250cc is probably a good $2,000 dollars more than the 150cc. So for the price of a 250cc, I can buy 2 150cc, and still have money left over. Likewise the insurance is more money since they consider it more a motorcycle than a scooter, and its not going to get as good gas mileage.

Likeswise, you'll also have to get a motorcycle license in order to drive it on the street. Whereas the 150cc it's not required.

[90GTVert]

Hmm. You might need to recheck your facts a bit. I have a TT150 and a TT250. The retail price difference is $700.

The insurance is virtually the same with the total being $98 per year for both.

Almost every state requires a license for motor vehicles over 50cc, not 150cc.

Gas mileage difference is about 60mpg vs 70mpg (insignificant in dollars). Stan

kabala said:

I plan to keep this as simple/cheap as possible.

I'll probably start with just a simple MPR air filter, then maybe a bigger jet in the carb, then some lighter weights in the variator.

And if I still can't get the pep I need for going up a slight incline without bogging down to 45mph, then I'll upgrade to a larger exhaust.

In regards to the 150cc vs the 250cc, bigger isn't always better or faster. I had a little four banger sport cars (1990 Toyota Celica All Trac) which I converted from 9 lbs of boost to 22 lbs, and from 175 WHP, to around 280 WHP. But it wasn't cheap, but it sure was fun.

The 250cc is probably a good $2,000 dollars more than the 150cc. So for the price of a 250cc, I can buy 2 150cc, and still have money left over. Likewise the insurance is more money since they consider it more a motorcycle than a scooter, and its not going to get as good gas mileage.

Likeswise, you'll also have to get a motorcycle license in order to drive it on the street. Whereas the 150cc it's not required.

[woodlark]

When I mentioned the cost of the upgrade, I was referring to the big bore kit and cam; that has to be pretty expensive.

[Twigster]

I gotta go with Stan on this one.

Sure, you could keep playing with your 150cc scoot & investing more & more $$$. But, your payback will be in the form of very small performance gains. Don't get me wrong though >>> if that's what you're expecting & you're OK with that, then go for it. I too enjoy modifying & upgrading all my vehicles. Just don't be expecting to get your $$$ worth out of it & just have fun with the experience.

If you're just looking for more speed in the form of acceleration & top end, get a 250cc. I myself am just going to sell my 150cc scoot within a year & go buy a used Kawasaki Ninja 250 for $3000 or less. No, it's not a scooter, but it will do 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds & tops out at around 110mph & it gets 75mpg. Show me a street legal chinese scoot that will do that for that kind of money!

Good luck with all the mods & keep us posted if you move forward with the changes.

[ddillon]

Kabala,

Can you share you experience with Extreme-Scooters with us. I was going to get a Tank 250 from the guy Dave Bergman over there but decided against that and went with a Kymco. I have heard many bad things about this guy and his operation. I was just curious to know how things went such as shipping time, customer service, etc.

[scooterollie]

kabala;
You can get an '07 Roketa Bali 250 (just like the Tank Touring) from BNScooters.com for $2199 to your door, and now comes with a 24 month warranty. I have had good experience with them.
My 250 '06 Bali will easily hold the speed you require, and then some. You never believe what they saw about top speed on most of these websites. Heck, I'm not certain you should believe much of anything some of these sites say about their products!

[mgreenfield]

I vote with the others.

If you have lots of time/money, and LOVE!! to fiddle, keep the GY6 and fiddle to your heart's content. ALSO, be ready for disappointment as results are marginal, and you substantially shorten the life of that already-hot-running little air-cooled mill.

If you really want to go faster, and save money in the long run, get a 250cc.

[kabala]

ddillion,

Yeah my experience with Extreme-Scooters.com has been one that has left a bad taste in my mouth. Basically what I paid for is not what I got...not even close. I paid for a red 150cc streaker with a trunk, and I received a yellow 150cc falcon without a trunk. I emailed Dave, and he tells me that the Streaker and the Falcon are the same thing, just different name...blah blah blah, and that the trunks were on back order. That was three months agao, and I have emailed him several time in regards to the trunk they owe me, with no response.

My opinion about them would be to simply stay the hell away from them.

As far as my 150cc, like I said before, I'm not looking to race this thing or even do 70 (like it was advertised as), I just want to have enough power to cruise up a 2% incline (East TN...foothills of the Smokies....lots of rolling hills here), at 50 - 55 MPH.

If I can do that for less than $500 bucks, then I'll go that route. If it means dropping in more than that, then I'll probably just sell my 150cc, and buy the 250cc.

Question...is the 250cc highway legal?

ddillon said:

Kabala,

Can you share you experience with Extreme-Scooters with us. I was going to get a Tank 250 from the guy Dave Bergman over there but decided against that and went with a Kymco. I have heard many bad things about this guy and his operation. I was just curious to know how things went such as shipping time, customer service, etc.

[Twigster]

Well, the 250cc scoots are highway legal in CA. Actually, anything greater than 150cc is legal unless posted otherwise. (and most CA highways have the 150cc signs posted at the on-ramps)

Though, I'm not sure if it's the same TN.

I think if you can cruise @ 65-70 without impeeding traffic you should be fine. But, I hear that handling a 250cc scooter might be a little dicey at those speeds when big-rigs pass by.