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Post by JR on Feb 11, 2013 19:40:25 GMT -5
IMO in the long run it would be the better thing to do. With people who want to help and help build a new site things would be better. Also with people being kept informed and the forum properly being transferred it would not come a shock to everyone and all would know up front what to expect. Lot's to think about and ponder. JR
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 11, 2013 19:51:10 GMT -5
I would like to change the subject of this thread. AS the management of Proboards suggested as an option. Would the membership here. Be interested in the rebirth of the forum in another Proboards site. I know, now you are scratching your head and going "Huh". It is just a question, would the membership here be happy moving to another Proboards forum. We all know there is the ScootDawg.net site. But there are those that were not happy with the way that transition was conducted and do not want to be on that forum. I don't think a new proboards forum would have the content of this forum moved to it.That would probably violate the TOS. We could link back to any information that is here. Someday something will happen and this forum will not survived. We have two moderators that come here, most of you only see me because Earl is more in the background. We need to have more help and it apparently is not going to be available here. Sure, ScootDawg on Proboards can hang in there for a while, it might be months or even years, but at some point without help, the load will be more than I or Earl or the both of use together can handle or will want to handle. We need to consider options. I think there are already proboards scooter forums a lot of members are in from here why create further division? I wish you well medman and I know you already have a site many here enjoy. I don't think my vote matters at all but what would you call it. If scootdawg goes on it should be the .net site despite what has happened. Why anyone would support proboards further after they have clearly abandoned this community is beyond me. I think we should move to the other site just to spite them... Anyone can start a new forum... I does seem redundant though. Like I said I know my opinion is often unpopular but there you have it...
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Post by edfr on Feb 11, 2013 19:52:22 GMT -5
I agree with Med and JR, start a new site and this site can be linked to until the other site builds it's database again. Question is how would some of the membership know to go to the new forum AND to NOT bother with this one SINCE there is no admin that can lock it for updates.
I personally do not like the other forum only because there are to many features missing.
Call it SCOOTDOGS or SCOOTERDAWGS whatever But using Proboards I do not think is a good idea the way they handled this. Either they modify their rules or forget them and may I add have a few ADMIN that can step in and not have to DEPEND on only one that can leave in a split second.
Now the other side of the coin PROBOARDS will evenutally blow this site away when they see no activity is happening and they will also know due to creating another forum IF PROBOARDS is used. This forum is taking a lot of DATABASE Space on their servers. Alleyoop
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Post by JR on Feb 11, 2013 20:05:10 GMT -5
I would like to change the subject of this thread. AS the management of Proboards suggested as an option. Would the membership here. Be interested in the rebirth of the forum in another Proboards site. I know, now you are scratching your head and going "Huh". It is just a question, would the membership here be happy moving to another Proboards forum. We all know there is the ScootDawg.net site. But there are those that were not happy with the way that transition was conducted and do not want to be on that forum. I don't think a new proboards forum would have the content of this forum moved to it.That would probably violate the TOS. We could link back to any information that is here. Someday something will happen and this forum will not survived. We have two moderators that come here, most of you only see me because Earl is more in the background. We need to have more help and it apparently is not going to be available here. Sure, ScootDawg on Proboards can hang in there for a while, it might be months or even years, but at some point without help, the load will be more than I or Earl or the both of use together can handle or will want to handle. We need to consider options. I think there are already proboards scooter forums a lot of members are in from here why create further division? I wish you well medman and I know you already have a site many here enjoy. I don't think my vote matters at all but what would you call it. If scootdawg goes on it should be the .net site despite what has happened. Why anyone would support proboards further after they have clearly abandoned this community is beyond me. I think we should move to the other site just to spite them... Anyone can start a new forum... I does seem redundant though. Like I said I know my opinion is often unpopular but there you have it... Why anyone would support proboards further after they have clearly abandoned this community is beyond me. Proboards didn't abandon this forum, Lee did and left people like Medman crippled to properly run this forum. You seem to want to put the blame on others when it's not the case. I think we should move to the other site just to spite them...
We is plural in the English language and you should speak for yourself and not others. just to spite themIt's that kind of thoughts that make you and your vote unpopular. JR
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Post by medman1952 on Feb 11, 2013 20:07:36 GMT -5
Well this is a big site for them to just carry. I have a test forum for my site that gets used very little but I also store some stuff there, it has gone over a year with no log ins and is still there.
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 11, 2013 20:11:02 GMT -5
Hi I'm in if theres a new site, no one has any control or any hope of any here what with proboards decision so why not start another new one Can never have enough scoot forums imho I shall go to where ever i can be of help to my friends and associates Take care and ride safely Yours Hank
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Post by dudley on Feb 11, 2013 20:12:21 GMT -5
We complained about this forum and when we were offered a new one we complained about that. And for no reason, because nether this forum nor the other belonged to us.soon we will have nothing and there are about five members responsible. Not my place to call them out, but we know who they are. To them I say thanks lot, for being asshats. Hope your banned from all forums because apparently you can't do anything but whine and hate. No one would have been hurt by the move, but we are all being hurt now.
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Post by edfr on Feb 11, 2013 20:16:14 GMT -5
I have to disagree some of the blame has to be PROBOARDS due to their rules. Proboards in my view have to make changes to their rules especially concerning ADMIN authority. If and ADMIN is not heard from or active or cannot get a hold of them for a certain period of time and he or she is needed to make a descision a VOTE from the members can be put up selecting the next admin from the current moderators that would accept to be chief or chiefs but not to leave it in limbo. For all we know the ADMIN could of died or got killed how would someone get that information. Supposed he drowned off some island nobody would know. Alleyoop
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Post by rapidjim on Feb 11, 2013 21:10:23 GMT -5
Okay let me see if I can make some sense of all that has happened and is happening.
Seems Proboards made a decision not to turn the ADMIN reins over to anyone. I read somewhere that they took control of the Admin function. Does that mean the present Mods here can go to Patrick and he can make new mods? This would help the work load I would think.
As far as the future of this site is concerned. We all know that this site has not been high on Lee's list or prioritys for a very long time however, we have still been able to grow and stay tight with each other. Now I have read that there was spam issues and I have to say I honestly didn't notice much. What I did see I just ignored. It would be a huge shame to just let it die, to many have put a lot of effort into this board, Medman, Earl and all the members.
Just my opinon and observations.
Jim
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Post by dudley on Feb 11, 2013 21:32:20 GMT -5
How can he steal what was given/sold to him? If he had this forum closed, as was his right, and moved to a forum with no content, that would have been better? All that history lost for nothing?A technicality?
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Post by leo on Feb 11, 2013 21:42:35 GMT -5
The moderating team is welcome to continue moderating this site, and if the members of this forum want "full control" they can create a new forum at www.proboards.com and direct the members to join the new forum." what exactly does this mean for scootdawg.com in the long run? the site is apparently generating revenue for proboards or they wouldn't have allowed the site to remain hosted. what about the dealer ads?
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Post by rapidjim on Feb 11, 2013 21:46:46 GMT -5
The moderating team is welcome to continue moderating this site, and if the members of this forum want "full control" they can create a new forum at www.proboards.com and direct the members to join the new forum." what exactly does this mean for scootdawg.com in the long run? the site is apparently generating revenue for proboards or they wouldn't have allowed the site to remain hosted. what about the dealer ads? If I remember correctly any mod can put the dealer ads back on. I think they were waiting to see what was going to happen to the site before they did. Jim
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Post by JR on Feb 11, 2013 22:08:27 GMT -5
I can answer all 3 questions: Jim by what Patrick stated the forum will stay "as is" quote: After reviewing our options, we have decided to leave the forum in an "as is" state. Meaning that those that have moderator powers still have them. The "admin" account will be left disabled due to Terms of Service violations. The moderating team is welcome to continue moderating this site, and if the members of this forum want "full control" they can create a new forum at www.proboards.com and direct the members to join the new forum.Simply put they do not intend to do any admin work themselves and will not appoint and new admin or moderators, it stays as it is or they will bless a new Proboards forum for everyone to move to. Dudley if you would take a minute and read the TOS with Proboards you can clearly (if you understand it) see no one including the admin has the right to sell this forum or give it to someone else without Proboards permission and going through the proper procedure as set by their terms, it's that simple, not a technicality but a fact. As far as the history the other forum erased all the threads of material off of the new forum because of the violation of the TOS and it's copyrighted material that belongs to the members of this forum and not the admin. That is clear in the TOS also and you can't sell or give away something that doesn't belong to you. He did as the admin have the right before he broke the TOS to close or even delete this forum but it's clear why he did not and it wasn't in the name of helping people with scooters but it was to make a buck, all a deception to make people believe other wise. Leo; Like I told Jim "as is" means just that, it will go on just like it is without any mod or leadership changes. The dealer ads can be put back if any moderator has the designated powers to do so. The admin decides on the powers granted mods and in some cases they can do normal operating functions sometimes they can not? A depends on how Lee set them up and now he has no say in that matter. The revenue generated is minimal and not a big thing. Proboards opened this forum back up because they received a complaint about it being closed and checked into why and when the TOS were violated they opened it back up because they wanted to. JR
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Post by leo on Feb 11, 2013 22:44:35 GMT -5
Proboards opened this forum back up because they received a complaint about it being closed and checked into why and when the TOS were violated they opened it back up because they wanted to. JR so lee never informed proboards either? judging from what i've heard so far: scootdawg and its content should be considered up for grabs, sold for the best price. the site remains at proboards with the buyer assuming admin privileges. the next question is "who gets the money?". easy answer, lee already got his, the money goes to proboards. edit: selling for the best price might not be in the best interests of scootdawg though. i personally feel that one of the regular mods, medman is the only regular mod, should take over the site. i also feel that since lee already sold the site that he also gave up ALL of his rights to any input on the matter.
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 11, 2013 22:47:27 GMT -5
I sure thought the creator of Star Trek died in 91. Did they reanimate him and convince him to turn to the dark side? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_RoddenberryIf they can do that then anything is possible there is a hope for the new scootdawg. Yay!
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Post by spandi on Feb 11, 2013 23:32:04 GMT -5
Anybody else feel like this?
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Post by medman1952 on Feb 12, 2013 1:32:03 GMT -5
A lot of comments are being tossed about.
!) I tried to get Proboards to make me an admin here so that I could recruit staff, they decided to leave the place as it is.
2) What happened between Lee and Mike has little to do with this place now because it is all water under the bridge and we can do nothing about it, so lets leave all that alone OK?
3) makes no difference who stirred what pot for what reason before, time to plot a new course or let this one go to its logical end.
4) I just want to know if people want a new forum put up, will you come if it is done.
Coulda Woulda Shoulda has passed
Will we or won't we is the question.
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 12, 2013 1:44:20 GMT -5
I would be interested to see what you have in mind
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Post by medman1952 on Feb 12, 2013 2:09:30 GMT -5
Scooter forums are not that complicated. They all have a similar set of areas for posting. I have no plans to try and strip posts from here to take anyplace. Coming up with a basic reference area is easy enough, the rest is created by those that follow and conversations that come up. The key is to have a base of members with the ability to help people and get along.
One thing is certain, the get along part would be utmost and those that could not would be asked to leave or shown the way out.
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Post by medman1952 on Feb 12, 2013 2:25:30 GMT -5
I'm going to send Earl a message and see what he feels like doing since we are the last two staff standing. I'll get back to you all on this.
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Post by dudley on Feb 12, 2013 6:20:02 GMT -5
Not mad just don't get it. The forum was sold, only the original posts were "stolen". No one was hurt by that. And if we had accepted the move we would not have to recreate scootdawg, just move over there. My apologies if I misunderstood JR, I was under the impression that the sale was done legally, only the admin and content transfer were done illegally. Only ones hurt by that should be pro boards. They can fend for themselves as far as I am concerned. They allowed this forum to flounder with no admin for a long time, I don't think they would have taken any action against the new forum if they had not gotten so many complaints from people who really had no business complaining to pro boards.too many legal fees with no big gain to be had.same reason they are just leaving it as is now.
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Post by Terri "Bunny" Lee on Feb 12, 2013 9:37:18 GMT -5
I am new here, bit if you move this site, what happens to the data stored within ? there is a ton of info, that i havent even begun to read. i would much rather read data than ask questions to people who MAY give me wrong answers.
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Post by loganhes on Feb 12, 2013 11:18:58 GMT -5
I will go to any forum that I find helpful,friendly and has my favorite fellow members. Therefore I will follow my fellow dawg members to the new site and give it a shot. I am a member of many scooter forums but I am mostly active in this one and in the Kymco one. Regarding fellow members, is there anyway we can ban Tortoise from any new forum that is created as he is a trouble maker and a total waste of skin? Sorry...I had to say it. I feel better now! --Jim
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 12, 2013 11:37:04 GMT -5
I will go to any forum that I find helpful,friendly and has my favorite fellow members. Therefore I will follow my fellow dawg members to the new site and give it a shot. I am a member of many scooter forums but I am mostly active in this one and in the Kymco one. Regarding fellow members, is there anyway we can ban Tortoise from any new forum that is created as he is a trouble maker and a total waste of skin? Sorry...I had to say it. I feel better now! --Jim Hi Jim I agree with all you have said except about banning Tortoise He may be aloof curt and sometimes inconsiderate in his postings and replies But he has a vast knowledge of scoots and does help out in his own special way And i do think of him as a friend and comrade, just my cranky and gruff one Take care and ride safely dear friend Yours Hank
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Post by rapidjim on Feb 12, 2013 11:38:45 GMT -5
Medman,
You already know how I feel about the subject.
I am a member or various forums, however this is the first scooter forum I had ever joined. Lots of good info and lots of good people. With all the info here it would be a shame just to let it disappear,
Jim
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Post by JR on Feb 12, 2013 12:38:36 GMT -5
Proboards opened this forum back up because they received a complaint about it being closed and checked into why and when the TOS were violated they opened it back up because they wanted to. JR so lee never informed proboards either? judging from what i've heard so far: scootdawg and its content should be considered up for grabs, sold for the best price. the site remains at proboards with the buyer assuming admin privileges. the next question is "who gets the money?". easy answer, lee already got his, the money goes to proboards. edit: selling for the best price might not be in the best interests of scootdawg though. i personally feel that one of the regular mods, medman is the only regular mod, should take over the site. i also feel that since lee already sold the site that he also gave up ALL of his rights to any input on the matter. First of let me see if I can explain how Proboards works. I have a forum that is a Proboards forum, no secret to that and anyone can go sign up and build a forum with Proboards Forum system. Proboards is a free Forum software hosting site: www.proboards.com/Now here is the TOS and I will only copy and paste things to it that apply here because it is a long document: www.proboards.com/tosAll this has been compared to renting a house so I'll explain it in a similar matter. When one signs up to build a forum just like if you rent a house you read the TOS sign it and then move into the house, Proboards is the landlord and you are the renter. You agree to follow the rules by the agreement and just like in your house that you just rented you are the boss or in this case the admin of the house. You call the shots in the house just like it was yours and again by the TOS of the agreement. Now in this case as the admin you pay no rent, remember Proboards is free, how they make revenue off of a forum is not important they make nothing off of the admin and it's members. As the admin you build the forum as you see fit again with their rules and people sign up and join in. Any member violates the rules it's the admin's job and any appointed help or mods to see to it the rules of the forum are enforced. Now as just like a renter as long as you follow the rules pay your rent (no payment to Proboards) then the landlord leaves you alone and life goes on, it's that simple. Basically you could call the moderators sub-renters but in this case the admin can't charge you to be a member since he pays nothing either, again this is a hosting service that is free. Here is the outlined duties in the TOS: FORUM CONTROL; MEMBER DISPUTES
ProBoards does not control the forums made available by means of the Website and Services. Forum administrators and moderators reserve the right, in their sole discretion, to delete or modify forum posts, revoke membership to the forum, block access to the forum, modify Your account profile, or modify any User Content (as defined in Section 15 below) on the forum. You should contact the forum administrator directly with any complaint, grievance or problem. ProBoards reserves the right, but disclaims any perceived, implied or actual duty, to monitor disputes between Website members. You agree to hold ProBoards harmless in connection with any dispute or claim You make against any other member.
Proboards does reserve the right to charge for things as outlined here but again to use the hosting site to build a forum as of now it's free of charge, again I have a forum and know: FEES
(a) RESERVED RIGHTS
You acknowledge and agree that ProBoards reserves the right to charge for access to the Website and use of the Services and to change its fees from time to time in ProBoards' sole discretion. ALL PURCHASES ARE FINAL. ALL FEES ARE NONREFUNDABLE. By opting for membership or paid services, You authorize ProBoards, or its payment processor, to charge subscription fees to the credit card, debit card, or other payment method you provide, in addition to applicable sales taxes and other applicable taxes. Use of PayPal to pay ProBoards constitutes Your binding agreement to all applicable terms in the PayPal Terms of Services and Legal Agreements. In the event of a discrepancy pertaining to fee collection, You have ten business days from the date of the completed charge to send notification to ProBoards about the discrepancy, after which all charges are no longer subject to change. ProBoards' decision not to exercise any specific right or require performance of any specific obligation under this Agreement, including without limitation the collection of monthly or annual fees from You, shall not affect ProBoards' subsequent ability to exercise such right or require such performance at any time thereafter. Nor shall ProBoards' waiver of Your breach constitute ProBoards' waiver of any subsequent breach.
(b) PAID GOODS AND SERVICES
ProBoards may charge a fee for in exchange for Your use of certain member services, including without limitation digital goods, badges, and the removal of advertisements (collectively, "Paid Goods and Services"). Paid Goods and Services also includes, without limitation, control over a forum's banner advertisements. Unless You pay for the right to display content on a specific forum's banner advertisements, or otherwise pay for a banner-free forum, ProBoards reserves the exclusive right to exercise full control over the content of any forum's banner advertisements and display advertising content at ProBoards' sole discretion.
All fees for Paid Goods and Services are payable in U.S. dollars. For those Paid Goods and Services with a recurring monthly fee, ProBoards shall charge a base rate in U.S. dollars per month, which will be due and collected in full at the beginning of each billing cycle that users opt for the services. In all cases, fees for Paid Goods and Services are due in full before the goods are delivered or the services are rendered.
Now as the renter of the house you own all the belongings of the house that you brought when you moved in and if you leave you take these things with you but you have no right to sell any of the landlord things or take them with you. In this case all the written material by the members here is copyrighted material and by the same TOS you signed when joining you understand it is now Proboards material and you have the right as the renter to take your material with you.....but you do not have the right to take others material nor does the admin have the right to do so or worse yet sell it. Again I can't stress enough the admin doesn't have the ownership of this forum material, he owns nothing, he is a renter that has no rent and is the admin of a forum that is hosted by Proboards. You cannot sell something that doesn't belong to you.......legally. As a renter if you break the TOS the landlord evicts you and if need be takes actions against you if you leave on bad terms. In this case Proboards stripped the admin rights from Lee because he broke the TOS. Lee now has no rights nor has he have the to transfer admin rights to another person, he will not ever be in charge here again unless he is allowed to by Proboards and they have made it clear that's not going to happen. You do not sell the duties of the admin, they have a way to go to their site and you transfer or give the admin duties to someone else that you have agreed to give them too and that they approve. Since he was the original admin and he did not transfer the admin rights to Mike and has now been stripped of his duties Mike will not be able to assume those duties either. Proboards will not try to sell anything here, by the TOS they can't, why they didn't assign a new admin is not known, I'm sure they have their reasons? It goes back to the rented house. The renter broke the TOS, the landlord has evicted him. When this happens the landlord advertises for a new renter but sometimes the landlord can choose to just shut the doors and let the house sit empty, his house, his choice. In this case the renter (admin) selected room mates (moderators) to help with the duties of keeping up the house in order and the landlord has said if they want they are welcome to stay but he won't appoint a new renter (admin) to run the household. Question is now how long with the room mates want to run it by themselves. JR
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Post by Terri "Bunny" Lee on Feb 12, 2013 17:36:51 GMT -5
I am new here, bit if you move this site, what happens to the data stored within ? there is a ton of info, that i havent even begun to read. i would much rather read data than ask questions to people who MAY give me wrong answers. im sorry that i quoted myself but no one has answered me. should i start printing every page of all the data ?
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Post by inuyasha on Feb 12, 2013 18:06:21 GMT -5
I am new here, bit if you move this site, what happens to the data stored within ? there is a ton of info, that i havent even begun to read. i would much rather read data than ask questions to people who MAY give me wrong answers. I'm sorry that i quoted myself but no one has answered me. should i start printing every page of all the data ? Hi Welcome aboard Pleased to meet you though i wish the circumstances where better At this point in time there no guarantees of anything The forum could be here for quite a long time or be gone in months or even days, theres no way of telling You will have to face the eventuality that one day this forum may not be here and take whatever appropriate actions you feel necessary Take care and ride safely Yours Hank
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Post by payneib on Feb 12, 2013 18:15:27 GMT -5
Hello,
As a new joiner I've been doing more reading than posting, but I can honestly say that the state of the forum is: requires moderators and admin.
Compared to other forums I use (for other interests) this place is full of sniping, possible multiple avatar users, spam and generally bad things.
If this forum continues, it needs maintenance, moderation and looking after.
It's a shame, as its full of information and some really good people, but I doubt I'll hang around for long if I have to keep wading through reams of dross to get to the good stuff.
Ian.
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Post by cloud on Feb 12, 2013 18:16:10 GMT -5
@medman, im with what ever is best, I would love to see this forum stay but from what ive been reading new admins are not going to happen.
seeing how the owner has tried/did sell out the forum, I think maybe this forum should be remade.
maybe down the line pro-boards will allow the transfer to the other.
I haven't been here that long but that doesn't mean I cant recognize the worth. anyway im thinking the same as medman
Peace
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