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Post by scootinjim on Oct 28, 2012 13:08:09 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I picked up an 08 jonway with the cf moto 244 clone in it on craigslist for 300 bucks because it doesnt run. The previous owner said it didnt really give him any trouble for the last couple of years and 8300 miles. To make a long story short the scooter is very hard to turn over, its like the starter is too weak. I have checked the battery and it is good, I know the motor will turn over by hand and without the plug in it seems to spin just fine. It does have what seems to be a wierd hard spot in it when you are turning it over by hand though. I pulled the valve cover and it looks good in there so I am out of ideas and thought I would turn to you guys for help. Should I start by buying a new starter?
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 28, 2012 14:33:28 GMT -5
After re-reading my previous post I figured that I should add that the weird hard spot doesnt seem to be the compression stroke every time and that the scoot has good spark. I am kinda at a loss here.
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Post by ridecheap on Oct 28, 2012 18:40:32 GMT -5
If its dead no power check the starter fuse should be 20 amp fuse. Then check the starter, regulator, and stator. I have a thread now I am talking about it.
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 28, 2012 19:10:21 GMT -5
No it has power thats the problem, it like the starter hits the compression stroke and just doesn't have enough power to bump it over. If I pull the plug it will turn over all day long.
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Post by jlee on Oct 30, 2012 19:53:10 GMT -5
Exhaust valve is too tight. No place for the compression to go until you pull the spark plug. Loosen up the exhaust valve a little and see what happens.
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 30, 2012 21:07:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply jlee, I tried that and it acts like it doesn't have any compression. It seems as though the valves are either too tight or to loose. I have stumbled across a complete engine on craigslist that the guy said ran when he pulled it. I am going to try and borrow a compression tester and see what compression I am getting out of it.
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Post by jlee on Oct 30, 2012 22:34:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply jlee, I tried that and it acts like it doesn't have any compression. It seems as though the valves are either too tight or to loose. I have stumbled across a complete engine on craigslist that the guy said ran when he pulled it. I am going to try and borrow a compression tester and see what compression I am getting out of it. Ok, I'm confused - first you said it had so much compression that the starter wouldn't turn it over. Now you say it has no compression? |
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Post by jsuggs on Oct 31, 2012 7:12:28 GMT -5
The tighter the valves are the more they open, the longer they stay open.
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 31, 2012 11:28:35 GMT -5
Im not exactly sure which way is tightening or loosening but if you pull it completely one direction its almost like it has too much compression and if you go the other way just two notches it is like it has no compression. The thing is driving me absolutely bonkers, I am used to setting valves with feeler guages.
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Post by skuttadawg on Oct 31, 2012 11:31:47 GMT -5
Any auto part store should have the bent feeler gauges for 3 dollars
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 31, 2012 17:02:21 GMT -5
Skuttadawg, I have lots of feeler guages I just dont see anyway to use them on the 244cc clone engine because the rocker arms are part of the valve cover.
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Post by leo on Oct 31, 2012 17:25:43 GMT -5
the CFmoto 244 does not require feeler gauges to set the valves.
i suspect the starter and the starter connections.
give the battery terminals a good cleaning, sandpaper all the crud off of the wire terminals.
check the connections at the solenoid, make sure they are clean and tight.
check the connection at the starter. make sure it is also clean ans tight.
lastly check the ground cable. make sure the connection at the starter is clean and tight.
have the battery load tested, you cannot "test" a battery with a voltmeter.
if the battery fails the load test then buy a new one.
if the above does not solve the problem then replace the starter.
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 31, 2012 17:36:01 GMT -5
Leo thanks, I had the battery load tested the other day at Autozone and it checked out good. I have checked all the connections and they are clean and tight. I am really starting to lean towards it being low on compression. I am really thinking about picking the engine on craigslist.
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Post by jlee on Oct 31, 2012 17:40:46 GMT -5
Im not exactly sure which way is tightening or loosening but if you pull it completely one direction its almost like it has too much compression and if you go the other way just two notches it is like it has no compression. The thing is driving me absolutely bonkers, I am used to setting valves with feeler guages. The point is, regardless of whether it started or not, was the starter able to turn over the engine under either condition? |
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Post by leo on Oct 31, 2012 18:45:33 GMT -5
I am really starting to lean towards it being low on compression. this will not cause the starter to drag. i had a similar situation awhile back. the starter spun normally until it hit the compression stroke, then it would drag through the stroke. after compression the starter would spin normally until it hit the next compression stroke and it would repeat the above symptoms. a new starter cured the problem. |
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 31, 2012 20:21:42 GMT -5
Jlee the starter will turn the motor over just fine when the valves are loose. Leo, I will order a new starter and give that a go before I get too deep into the engine.
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Post by jlee on Oct 31, 2012 20:32:17 GMT -5
Jlee the starter will turn the motor over just fine when the valves are loose. Leo, I will order a new starter and give that a go before I get too deep into the engine. I hope the starter cures your problem, but my gut feeling is that you're wasting money. Let us know what happens... |
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Post by scootinjim on Oct 31, 2012 20:36:06 GMT -5
I was just talking to the wife about that, the motor on craigslist has a starter and it is only 200 more than the starter itself.
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Post by jlee on Oct 31, 2012 22:02:01 GMT -5
I was just talking to the wife about that, the motor on craigslist has a starter and it is only 200 more than the starter itself. No offense meant, but if you can't get the valves adjusted correctly on this engine, what's gonna happen when it comes time to set 'em on the new one? |
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Post by scootinjim on Nov 1, 2012 8:03:53 GMT -5
No offense taken but if the scooter ran I dont think that adjusting the valves would be a problem. I have worked on engines and equipment my whole life just never ran into anything with this kind of setup. I really dont think the valves are what is keeping it from starting.
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Post by leo on Nov 1, 2012 8:18:04 GMT -5
if your valves aren't adjusted right then the engine will be hard to start but it will not cause the starter to drag.
an 1986 honda elite 250 manual will have the procedure for adjusting the valves.
do not use the running method suggested by some people, it will damage the adjusters.
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Post by EPAhater on Nov 1, 2012 9:07:47 GMT -5
Sent you a PM.
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Post by jlee on Nov 1, 2012 14:52:06 GMT -5
if your valves aren't adjusted right then the engine will be hard to start but it will not cause the starter to drag. I have personally witnessed tight valves cause the starter to lug due to the compression increase. Carbon build-up makes it even worse. That may or may not be the OP's problem, but I still say it hasn't been ruled out. |
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Post by scootinjim on Nov 2, 2012 17:49:23 GMT -5
I have a gut feeling that my scoot will be running tomorrow night, I will keep you guys updated.
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Post by jazzman on Nov 2, 2012 18:19:45 GMT -5
Just to get everyone straight, the valves ARE supposed to be closed and TIGHT NO LEAKS on the compression stroke. Now if the adjustment are to tight that will leave the valve or valves OPEN and that will result in low compression. But since the man says it stops on the compression stroke It is either of two things a weak starter or a weak battery.
The battery can be tested for LOAD but the starter cannot be tested with the home tools.
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Post by scootinjim on Nov 2, 2012 18:28:33 GMT -5
Im sure its not the battery although im still not certain that its not the starter but i will know tomorrow. I do have to say that these engines are simple to take out.
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Post by jazzman on Nov 2, 2012 18:33:44 GMT -5
One other thing I forgot to mention that can cause this is a bad ground. And how are you sure it is not the battery. Apparently you have not tested it, hook up a volt meter to the battery and watch the meter if it is weak or there is a bad cell the volt meter will drop when you hit the start button.
Another thing if you have access to a car jump your battery and give that a shot. That will tell you right away which is the culprit.
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Post by scootinjim on Nov 2, 2012 18:49:10 GMT -5
I did have the battery tested at autozone and checked it the volts on it. I also hooked my truck battery up to it lol.
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Post by jazzman on Nov 2, 2012 18:52:38 GMT -5
Yea, sure you did..LOL
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Post by scootinjim on Nov 2, 2012 18:59:30 GMT -5
I even have the little battery print out to prove it lol.
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