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Post by macktheknife on Aug 9, 2012 23:54:21 GMT -5
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Post by prodigit on Aug 10, 2012 0:36:38 GMT -5
I just ran my BMS 260 EFI bike on the highway. Seems behind trailers it goes ~83MPH, for a moment (like a few minutes) it can maintain 80MPH, but on longer stretches it slows down to 79 or 78MPH. Flat surface no wind! Grab a GPS, you are not doing anywhere near 80mph. Yes, I understand what the speedometer says but it's way off. My ninja 250 can barely maintain 80 mph and it produces 25 hp. My Honda helix and elite 250 could just barley maintain 65.. and neither one will keep those speeds on hills. Forget maintaining speeds of 65mph on a 150. I've owned 150 scooters ( Honda elite). With the wind at your back on a level surface, you may get lucky and hit 65mph but if anyone buys a 150 thinking they are going to be cruising at 65 mpg, they will be in for a surprise. I think it comes down to three things. People are mislead by inaccurate speedometers. People confuse absolute top speed with maintainable speed and people who have never owned scooters just parrot what others have said. We have decades of history to establish what a 250cc two wheeled vehical can do... They only 250 that I am aware of that can cruise at anythign over 65 -70 mph in a ninja 250 and perhaps the CBR250r. My 2009 TU250 was done at 70mph.. I once saw 83 mph on my Morphous but that was on a slight down hill and the actual indicates top cruising speed was about 75 mph. GPS verification was 67 mph. Expect a true top cruising speed on almost every 250cc vehicle to be 65 mph and 70 on the flats with zero left to pass. You'll be happy with the performance if you know what to expect. 1- I did test the speedometer, and it's right on the mark! tested with a side street speed gun! 2- You must have had a messed up honda then! Ofcourse, all speed measurements are done on flat land. Many 50cc's can already go 45MPH, 150cc's go close to 65MPH; don't care what you say! They perhaps can't maintain the speed, but will drive it for a few minutes! And if they do, it does not mean they should be rated lower. Most of the time after a few minutes, they drop in speed a few mph, but not many. Concerning my 260, I took it out on the road again, I did 83MPH tops cruising behind a truck (truck cut wind for me). I also did 80MPH tops without truck (truck drove 85+, and I had to let it go inevitably). Bike maintained speed for a few minutes, then lowered to 79 MPH. I feared the speed slowdown could cause damage, and ended the speed test right there, and continued to drive for 75MPH for a good 35 more minutes (ranging between 70 and 78MPH(I tried to stay below 79MPH)). I did not yet modify my exhaust; but if I would, I perhaps could get upto 85MPH on my bike. The BMS clone I have is a 260cc Linhai clone (257cc on paper); and fuel injected. I can imagine that carb motors have lower performance, especially those that are 250cc Honda clones (244cc on paper) |
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Post by tinstar on Aug 10, 2012 0:37:48 GMT -5
My SYM RV250 can hit 70 and then some (GPS, not speedo) and maintain that speed no problem until the hills! Yes, going up hill definately slows it down, but it will build back up quickly going down. Thing is, I don't like riding the scooter at those speeds. I'm more of a 45 to 55 mph kind of guy and the RV250 is perfect for those speeds.
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Post by wile on Aug 10, 2012 0:58:02 GMT -5
WOW! Just Amazing, well I think your bikes have problems I mean the other dude with a stock 125cc was hitting 73mph on the interstate.
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Post by prodigit on Aug 10, 2012 5:15:46 GMT -5
Eventhough my bike goes 80MPH, I prefer speeds below 60MPH.
For one, the wind noise gets too loud, even with a helmet on.
I'm sure you could modify the exhaust and air intake on the carb bikes, to go a few mph's faster; and optimize the carb for high speed driving; also you could increase the pilot and main jet sizes, and get a good spark plug.
There's only that much you can do to a bike to make it go faster, before you need to get larger cc's.
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Post by spandi on Aug 10, 2012 8:43:37 GMT -5
Eventhough my bike goes 80MPH, I prefer speeds below 60MPH. For one, the wind noise gets too loud, even with a helmet on. I'm sure you could modify the exhaust and air intake on the carb bikes, to go a few mph's faster; and optimize the carb for high speed driving; also you could increase the pilot and main jet sizes, and get a good spark plug. There's only that much you can do to a bike to make it go faster, before you need to get larger cc's. Why would you want, or need to go faster than that? Why do people in this country feel as if it's their constitutional right to go 15-20 miles over the speed limit? (as if that sign were a mere suggestion) The price of gas is rising again, I wonder if they'll have such a lead-foot when gas is $8 bucks a gallon? |
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 10, 2012 9:57:04 GMT -5
Why do you support the idea that a bunch of political hacks should determine that you should drive 25mph on a road that can easily and safely be maneuvered at twice that speed?
Speed limits are nothing but revenue traps.
I once believed all the laws and regulations were designed with our best interests in mind. That was a long time ago. What an unsophisticated naive fool I was.
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 10, 2012 10:00:11 GMT -5
WOW! Just Amazing, well I think your bikes have problems I mean the other dude with a stock 125cc was hitting 73mph on the interstate. That's nothing I can cruise at 90mph on my Honda spree 50. GPS verified ;D. |
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Post by spandi on Aug 10, 2012 12:14:04 GMT -5
I am giving up on account of I cannot fight no more against such GENIUS.
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Post by wile on Aug 10, 2012 12:43:26 GMT -5
I am also giving up, Due to the high cost of hearing aid batteries I can no longer afford to hear the B.S.
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Post by ericrockstar on Aug 10, 2012 13:38:26 GMT -5
I could hit 67mph downhill on my POS 150 with cheap 15 gram rollers. Problem was up hill would knock me back down to 40 and take awhile to build speed back up. Acceleration went to poop. 2up takeoff became very difficult. And that was while I was already having cheap Chinese transmission problems.
Realistic cruising is about 50mph.
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Post by prodigit on Aug 11, 2012 0:39:13 GMT -5
A 50cc 2stroke engine can outperform some 100 cc 4 stroke engines; they're just less efficient.
I wish they made scooters with twin 100cc cylinders, they would be the best of both worlds!
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Post by derbi on Aug 11, 2012 14:58:00 GMT -5
A 50cc 2stroke engine can outperform some 100 cc 4 stroke engines; they're just less efficient. I wish they made scooters with twin 100cc cylinders, they would be the best of both worlds! How about a Twin 125 cc 2t scooter www.italjet.co.uk/formula125.asp |
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Post by karpata on Aug 12, 2012 0:11:13 GMT -5
Well, my 09 Kymco Grand Vista tops out at 73 WOT. I cruise the freeways at around 68, I thought it was supposed to go faster but from what I've read, I guess not.
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Post by prodigit on Aug 12, 2012 7:52:03 GMT -5
Point of this thread is, 70mph on a 250cc? yes, is possible.
70mph on a 150cc is pushing it.
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Post by jeffery5568 on Aug 12, 2012 9:05:47 GMT -5
I had a 2004 Honda shadow 750 and it would only do like 80-85 and there was nothing wrong with it that's just all it had.
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Post by WarrenS on Aug 12, 2012 10:08:25 GMT -5
Back in the '50s I had a friend whose brother had a beautiful full dress Harley. He went to the dealer asking why it would not do 100mph. The dealer told him it was because of all the saddle bags, trunk, windshield and stuff on it. So he took all the stuff off of it, chopped the fenders just so he could do 100.
So if your scooter or cycle wont go as fast as you think it should it may be accessories or weight holding you back.
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Post by prodigit on Aug 12, 2012 10:19:36 GMT -5
Not really.
Most scooters are limited due to their exhaust, fuel jets in the carburator, and inefficient design (causing too much drag).
If your scoot is aerodynamic, like the burgman, and most Yamaha Linhai 260/300 clones out there, you should be able to do 75MPH.
With the older motorcycles, the issues are:
- Inefficient engine
- Not well thought out gears
sometimes a gear could be added, and they could go upto 140MPH; most of the time their final gear is too light for the engine, meaning, it has plenty of juice left over to get into a gear higher.
But in case of Harleys, and other large motorcycles, they don't want the customer to figure out what the max speed is of the bike; or at least, don't want to give the customer the impression they're taxing the bike to the max. They give them a last gear that allows them to accelerate fast, but don't give them the final gear, where the engine is running at a constant 100% load; so they have the impression that until their final gear, the bike accelerates quick.
It's basic marketing; if a bike accelerates fine 'till 75MPH, and another performs equal, except the other accelerates very slow to 120MPH, the reviewer will most likely mention it. Tests will be done for the one bike to 60 or 75MPH, and on the other to 100MPH. Eventhough both bikes perform just the same (save for top speed), the slower bike will come ahead in the 0-60MPH run, and the faster bike will most likely be somewhere on the bottom on the 0-100mph run.
On the 150/250cc scooters, the motor is completely 100% ballasted at final gear (which reduces lifetime);
I'm glad that the chinese bikes allow the rider to take out those last bits of speed of the bike, whenever they want it; and not artificially limit the bike; basically giving the end-user the control to trade engine lifetime for speed.
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 12, 2012 19:11:42 GMT -5
According to Piaggio, my 200cc can hit 75 mph. According to a fellow Dawg, he hit 80 on his. According to my dealer, my 200cc is faster than the Vespa 250 (300cc? don't remember now, just that its engine was bigger) 'cause of 16" vs 10 or 12" wheels.
So yes, a 250cc can hit 70 mph. Can it sustain? Depends on the tire size and probably also how its mechanics are put together. Oh, and also on the rider size. ;D
>'Kat
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Post by warriorboxerdog on Aug 19, 2012 8:02:16 GMT -5
I own a E-ton Matrix 150cc with a few mods ( carb jetted, uni filter and a complete cvt upgrade) This is a very light 150cc scooter. Stock top speed was around 60mph now with mods have had it to 70mph. I helix is a big heavy scooter even though it is a 250cc. My scooter is lighter and stock has 11hp (dyno confirmed) Top speed has a lot to do with the riders weight, the weight of the scooters and mods. The E-ton matrix is a air cooled 150cc with a oil cooler has a dry weight of 227lbs. If anyone thinks this is not true I invite you to come see for your self. Also my friend has a kymco agility 125 that will do 60mph radar confirmed. I also had a 2 stroke super 8 moddod to the max for racing that would do 60mph and would beat any stock 150cc out there. I work on scooters for a living and know alot but not everything. The dry weight of a 2007 honda helix is 349.4 pounds and that is a lot of weight to move my friend!
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Post by tug54 on Aug 19, 2012 9:15:57 GMT -5
LOL....Sounds like the guy riding a 150 scoot with the young blonde, nice long legs. He got to drinking and talking about how fast his 150 was and how good he was with the ladies. Well the blonde was laughing her ass off so I asked if she wanted to get out of this place and off we road on my little 250cc Honda... After a long weekend I found out from her his 150 was more like 55mph and he was just big talke and Mr. Little Do
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Post by jwalz1 on Aug 19, 2012 13:12:03 GMT -5
I am also giving up, Due to the high cost of hearing aid batteries I can no longer afford to hear the B.S. It is probably less about BS and more about the trust of highly inaccurate speedometers. |
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Post by novaraptor on Aug 20, 2012 3:39:54 GMT -5
70 on a 250? Sure, at least on my Roketa mc 79 250. During breakin I had the speedo reading just over 80 on the interstate. Figure it wasn't really 80 but I was maintaining with 90% of the traffic. I still had some throttle left and wasn't into the red on the tach. did about an 8 mile run. Slowed some on the hills, but overall I was happy with it. I don't usually take the interstate but it's good to know that I can. I did find that 13" wheels and a scooter in that weight class kind of "float" at those speeds. It's much more comfortable in the 50-60 mph range.
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Post by saleenman62233 on Aug 21, 2012 14:35:01 GMT -5
my 2011 jonway yy250t will cruise 70 mph all day long no matter what the surface is. top speed is 83mph gps on a flat surface. my speedometer is only 2 mph off. guess i got lucky and got a good one.
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Post by saleenman62233 on Aug 21, 2012 14:36:55 GMT -5
and it is 2000 rpm below red line when i max it out
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Post by mechaniczman on Aug 21, 2012 15:55:01 GMT -5
everybody says engines dont last long at wide open throttle I rode my 50cc at wide open throttle 100% of the time, sold it at 25,000 miles and that was a year ago the guy told me it still ran great.
I drive my car at WOT too..253,000 miles still strong
Give it hell and maintain it well and it will last forever
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Post by redhouse7 on Aug 22, 2012 9:22:36 GMT -5
In theory you can drive that fast. It is within the engine's normal operating window, and it should not have any problems, but the quality of the Chinese scooters may push the prudent owner to not go to the edge of the operational limits for too long. But again, in theory there should be a comfortable buffer built into the machine by the manufacturer. These scooter are so under stressed for the most part that they should be able to take some abuse. I'd be inclined to say if you need to jump on the freeway and go to work, knock yourself out, but I wouldn't go across the state on one. Besides at that speed they begin to have an uneasy feeling like they might lift off at any momnet.
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Post by spandi on Aug 22, 2012 9:35:28 GMT -5
In theory you can drive that fast. It is within the engine's normal operating window, and it should not have any problems, but the quality of the Chinese scooters may push the prudent owner to not go to the edge of the operational limits for too long. But again, in theory there should be a comfortable buffer built into the machine by the manufacturer. These scooter are so under stressed for the most part that they should be able to take some abuse. I'd be inclined to say if you need to jump on the freeway and go to work, knock yourself out, but I wouldn't go across the state on one. Besides at that speed they begin to have an uneasy feeling like they might lift off at any momnet. The thing I'm wondering is if the engines are copies of Japanese models, which were of an under-stressed design (so that they were capable of running at or near top speed for extended periods) would it make that much difference? |
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Post by ericrockstar on Aug 22, 2012 10:20:03 GMT -5
They rate cars horsepower at ridiculous high rpm. My accord has like 140hp at 5,000 rpm. I never rev it past 3,000. Maybe that's why they last forever?
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Post by 260orbust on Aug 22, 2012 17:24:34 GMT -5
Exactly! Best speed I ever got was indicated 80 (70 GPS) and that was for a few moments. Even on my Hayabusa the speedo is off by 5 mph until you hit 100 then it's off by 10. Don't forget the wind too. Your cruising speed will be about 55 (if your lucky)
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