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Post by pheenix42 on Aug 8, 2012 13:28:31 GMT -5
Watched a vid of some fellow on Youtube with a Bali 250 Roketa doing 70 on the highway, and I was just wondering: For an engine of that size, isn't 70 kinda pushing the limit? I know a 400 class scoot can cruise that speed and not strain the engine, but a 250?
As always, any info is most welcome!
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Post by wile on Aug 8, 2012 13:50:02 GMT -5
Yes the 250s can do 70mph but they are at their limit, and that is at WOT. While a bigger cc motor can cruise at those speeds and still have something left.
Wile
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Post by mattack on Aug 8, 2012 14:03:05 GMT -5
You can do it, but dont expect your engine to last long running WOT all the time.
If your going to do a lot of 70mph freeway driving get a Burgman.
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 8, 2012 14:23:39 GMT -5
I've owned many 250cc motorcycles and scooters... on a completely level surface, your speedo might indicate 70mph but you will be doing closer to 60mph. Both of My Helixes are very accurate.. I can do 70 max on a level surface. True speed is probably 68 or so. As soon as I hit a big hill i will slow down to 60 indicated.
The only 250 bike I've ridden that can cruise relatively comfortably at 70 -75 is my Ninja. It will cruise at a 75 and even 80mph but the engine is spinning like crazy and although you can get it to hit 95-100mph.. There is not much workable real world power after 75 or 80.
If you want a small motorcycle for highway use, The Ninja and perhaps the CBR250r( to a lesser extent) are your only real options. A 250cc scooter will be ok for short trips( I use mine every day for about 10 miles of highway) but you there is no getting around the fact that small scooters are not meant for highways. The benefits of a larger scooter are many.. when it comes to that type travel.
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Post by kixome on Aug 8, 2012 14:29:05 GMT -5
You can do it, but dont expect your engine to last long running WOT all the time. If your going to do a lot of 70mph freeway driving get a Burgman. If you are going to do a lot of freeway driving get a motorcycle. Belt for the burgman is like $600 |
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Post by wile on Aug 8, 2012 14:29:21 GMT -5
Right on Mrnoitall, that is the real world. sh!t even my 750 Honda Shadow has really no power after 70mph and if you want to pass someone you have to build up your speed to pass.
Wile
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 8, 2012 14:34:35 GMT -5
You can do it, but dont expect your engine to last long running WOT all the time. It's not WOT you have to worry about, it's RPMs. It's doubtful that riding with a WOT will put the engine in it's red zone. |
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Post by kixome on Aug 8, 2012 16:25:50 GMT -5
Right on Mrnoitall, that is the real world. sh!t even my 750 Honda Shadow has really no power after 70mph and if you want to pass someone you have to build up your speed to pass. Wile Are you for real wile? sounds like something is wrong with your shadow. I currently have an 1100 but have ran several 750s and they never seemed lacking in power at any speed. The 2 i have owned would run 110 no problem and at 70 still had plenty left to pass. |
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Post by wile on Aug 8, 2012 18:28:04 GMT -5
Yes I am for real it is a 1999 Honda Shadow ACE(American Classic Edition)
Chain Drive they now are Shaft Drive and the fast one is the VTX1800.
Wile
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Post by spandi on Aug 8, 2012 20:25:44 GMT -5
Are you guys kidding? When I had a Honda Elite 125 back in 1984 (pre EFI) it was nothing to hit 60-65 and even 70 wasn't all that unusual (just ask the semi drivers who looked out the window slack jawed being passed by a "moped") And you're telling me you can't do that with an engine TWICE that size?
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Post by tug54 on Aug 8, 2012 20:42:53 GMT -5
I can run my Honda Reflex all day long here in Florida in the heat at 70mph. I use a GPS and have had it at 82mph. But....It is a Honda
Mike
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Post by derbi on Aug 8, 2012 21:26:47 GMT -5
Right on Mrnoitall, that is the real world. sh!t even my 750 Honda Shadow has really no power after 70mph and if you want to pass someone you have to build up your speed to pass. Wile You have a shadow 750 as well cool i do as well. and i agree i never even take mine on the interstate as it just doesn't have the power necessary to keep up the speeds most drive at without pushing it hard. i just put around on main and secondary roads with it. |
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 8, 2012 21:49:35 GMT -5
When I had a Honda Elite 125 back in 1984 (pre EFI) it was nothing to hit 60-65 and even 70 wasn't all that unusual Come one !! Nonsense! I owned an Honda Elite 125 and an Elite 150 and belonged to Elite forums... There is not a legitimate Elite owner who would claim that an elite 125 scoot does 60mph.... 65-70 is fricking laughable. A 150 will barely do 65. You're lucky if the 125 will reach 52 mph. In addition these are the very TOP speeds we are talking about. They are not maintainable cruising speeds. |
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Post by wile on Aug 8, 2012 21:50:48 GMT -5
Thank you Derbi, All this people toteing their 50s 125s 150s doing those speeds are in LA-LA land dreaming. I don't understand why they always come on a tell a tale nobody believes. But the real problem they cause is the NOOBS then come on and ask why their ride is 10-15mph slower. Maybe a hurricane or tornado came through that day and was pushing them or something. Did not catch that Semi Drivers name but I think he said BUBBA  Wile |
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Post by bigphillip79 on Aug 9, 2012 0:09:37 GMT -5
70 is more than doable on a 250. I run my 92 Helix at freeway speed on the freeway. I've run several day trips of 300 to 400 miles at 75mph all day. My first year I had it I put 12,000 miles on it and it never had any trouble. Most of the time I was in the fast lane and doing the passing. Fastest I've had it to was 81mph while drafting a car on the freeway.
Now my dad-in0law has and babies it around town. I have the PC800 and the Burgman 650, both of those will do way faster than 70 all day.
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Post by spandi on Aug 9, 2012 0:24:46 GMT -5
When I had a Honda Elite 125 back in 1984 (pre EFI) it was nothing to hit 60-65 and even 70 wasn't all that unusual Come one !! Nonsense! I owned an Honda Elite 125 and an Elite 150 and belonged to Elite forums... There is not a legitimate Elite owner who would claim that an elite 125 scoot does 60mph.... 65-70 is fricking laughable. A 150 will barely do 65. You're lucky if the 125 will reach 52 mph. In addition these are the very TOP speeds we are talking about. They are not maintainable cruising speeds. Nonsense Nothing!!!! Most of my 12,000 miles (yes, 12 grand) were Highway/beltway/Interstate . Friends following me in a car would be looking for me in traffic behind them only to CATCH UP to me a mile or two down the road. BTW, the fastest I ever passed "Bubba" was an amazing 73 mph. (when the lady at the Honda shop said the top speed for the Elite was 55mph... Well, I just smiled.) |
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Post by pheenix42 on Aug 9, 2012 0:53:43 GMT -5
See, this is the reason I like this forum site...I get real-world info and opinions from people who know from personal experience. Imagine, however, a scoot with a Ninja engine in it....  |
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Post by kixome on Aug 9, 2012 1:19:13 GMT -5
See, this is the reason I like this forum site...I get real-world info and opinions from people who know from personal experience. Imagine, however, a scoot with a Ninja engine in it.... That has been done with honda ruckus and gsxr 600 on youtube all day. |
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Post by kixome on Aug 9, 2012 1:20:36 GMT -5
Oh and if a 750 has problems running the interstate then it needs work I have had 2 of the older chain drive 750's and never a problem passing at 70+. Must fix your bike wile.
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Post by spandi on Aug 9, 2012 6:23:03 GMT -5
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Post by WarrenS on Aug 9, 2012 9:09:27 GMT -5
I also had an '84 Elite 125. Top speed was 55. I also had an '87 Helix that had a top speed of 74. It would run at 70 all day as it was water cooled as was the Elite. I felt the water cooling allowed them to run at near top speed. I also had a '90 Pacific Coast and it was able to cruise easily at highway speeds.
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 9, 2012 9:25:21 GMT -5
70 is more than doable on a 250. More than doable? I agree,cruising at 70 mph on a Honda helix is MORE than is actually doable. The Honda helix is not capable of cruising at 75mph. I own TWO Helix scooters.. The top speed on a level surface is well established for 25 years. The top speed of a Honda helix is without any doubt 70mph GPS verified give or take 1-2 MPH. You can not cruise at anywhere near 75 mph unless your trip is down hill. You cannot even cruise at 70 for long unless you live in the flat lands. For those of you who are wondering who is correct, visit the Helix forums here, www.slonaker.net/helixforum/ or the yahoo helix group and see what 99% of Honda Helix owners say about top speed and top cruising speed. You can also read this professional review from 1993 which cloaked top speed at 70mph. www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/first-impression-honda-helix-15060.html |
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Post by prodigit on Aug 9, 2012 11:04:17 GMT -5
I just ran my BMS 260 EFI bike on the highway. Seems behind trailers it goes ~83MPH, for a moment (like a few minutes) it can maintain 80MPH, but on longer stretches it slows down to 79 or 78MPH. Flat surface no wind!
The bike can keep up with traffic, and even easily surpass most cars. After 65MPH it gets a little slow in surpassing, but still does a wonderful job, as the wind the car in front of you cuts, helps you in surpassing that car more easily!
After 75MPH, there's really no acceleration, and it takes upto a few minutes to get to 80MPH.
That being said, if you are going to keep yourself at 65 nicely, a 150cc could even do.
If you plan on 65 with a passenger, 200cc will be your minimum.
If you want to travel at above 80MPH, or above 75MPH with passenger, you seriously should consider a 300CC.
I would not go up to a burgman, at 400CC it may be very maneuverable on the highway, reaching speeds of over 85MPH with 2 people, if your main concern is to do longer stretches on the highway, or need transport a second passenger, as well as gas prices, believe me, get a 250, or 300cc minimum!
I wasn't able to fork out the money for a burgman, however for 1600 you get a 250cc china bike; for 2600 you get a 260 Fuel injected, or 300cc bike with carburetor.
For 3600 you can find some second hand 400cc burgmans, with between 15k and 36k miles on them.
I thought my 260 would be perfect, but am not 100% content driving it on the highway by myself.
I think a 300 would have made more sense.
So I came up with the following in my mind:
Get a 150cc, for the city and local transport, and a Burgman 400 for highway, and trips larger than 50 miles (2 way).
Besides, my 260cc, rated at ~70MPG avg by many users on the forum, did a lousy 45-50MPG on the highway (doing between 65 and 82MPH). Granted, I was a bit hard on the throttle; but these 45-50MPG numbers you can also find them on a burgman with 400cc.
For a lot of city driving, I would suggest a smaller bike, as it makes more sense to get a 125-150cc bike in town (burgmans don't have good MPG in cities).
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Post by mrnoitall on Aug 9, 2012 11:37:28 GMT -5
I just ran my BMS 260 EFI bike on the highway. Seems behind trailers it goes ~83MPH, for a moment (like a few minutes) it can maintain 80MPH, but on longer stretches it slows down to 79 or 78MPH. Flat surface no wind! Grab a GPS, you are not doing anywhere near 80mph. Yes, I understand what the speedometer says but it's way off. My ninja 250 can barely maintain 80 mph and it produces 25 hp. My Honda helix and elite 250 could just barley maintain 65.. and neither one will keep those speeds on hills. Forget maintaining speeds of 65mph on a 150. I've owned 150 scooters ( Honda elite). With the wind at your back on a level surface, you may get lucky and hit 65mph but if anyone buys a 150 thinking they are going to be cruising at 65 mpg, they will be in for a surprise. I think it comes down to three things. People are mislead by inaccurate speedometers. People confuse absolute top speed with maintainable speed and people who have never owned scooters just parrot what others have said. We have decades of history to establish what a 250cc two wheeled vehical can do... They only 250 that I am aware of that can cruise at anythign over 65 -70 mph in a ninja 250 and perhaps the CBR250r. My 2009 TU250 was done at 70mph.. I once saw 83 mph on my Morphous but that was on a slight down hill and the actual indicates top cruising speed was about 75 mph. GPS verification was 67 mph. Expect a true top cruising speed on almost every 250cc vehicle to be 65 mph and 70 on the flats with zero left to pass. You'll be happy with the performance if you know what to expect. |
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Post by derbi on Aug 9, 2012 11:39:57 GMT -5
See, this is the reason I like this forum site...I get real-world info and opinions from people who know from personal experience. Imagine, however, a scoot with a Ninja engine in it.... Why imagine. |
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Post by wile on Aug 9, 2012 13:12:46 GMT -5
Oh and if a 750 has problems running the interstate then it needs work I have had 2 of the older chain drive 750's and never a problem passing at 70+. Must fix your bike wile. Kids I tell you, here they come on just getting out of their diapers and they are experts and had every bike imagineable. If I would have said It was a Harley Sportster you would have said I had 2 of those.  You guys can't even read let alone be truthfull. I said no power after 70mph, yea it will run over 100 but to get there is a slow deal. Then another expert comes on and says BUT YOU HAVE TWIN CYLINDERS(DUH)  . Tells you right there that dude doesn't know much about motors.  But this is very good information for all who are reading this, very telling actually shows who doesn't know diddley squat.  Have Fun and Ride Safe and may the sahara winds blow at your back. Wile |
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Post by spandi on Aug 9, 2012 14:12:41 GMT -5
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Post by wile on Aug 9, 2012 14:43:42 GMT -5
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Post by bigphillip79 on Aug 9, 2012 18:41:21 GMT -5
70 is more than doable on a 250. More than doable? I agree,cruising at 70 mph on a Honda helix is MORE than is actually doable. The Honda helix is not capable of cruising at 75mph. I own TWO Helix scooters.. The top speed on a level surface is well established for 25 years. The top speed of a Honda helix is without any doubt 70mph GPS verified give or take 1-2 MPH. You can not cruise at anywhere near 75 mph unless your trip is down hill. You cannot even cruise at 70 for long unless you live in the flat lands. For those of you who are wondering who is correct, visit the Helix forums here, www.slonaker.net/helixforum/ or the yahoo helix group and see what 99% of Honda Helix owners say about top speed and top cruising speed. You can also read this professional review from 1993 which cloaked top speed at 70mph. www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/first-impression-honda-helix-15060.html Yes and you can read my post there as well. You will find several riders with top speeds over 70. Most guys don't ride their helix that way that way full time. I do. I ride for transportation most of the time and most everything down here is along the freeway. Down here, we have no hills aside from overpasses. I run 26 gram sliders, weigh 330 and cruise at 74. Of course I hold that bastard wide open. That's my cruise control, wide open. All day. Unless you do some mods the engine won't run at 100%. The CVT won't let it. It slows down some up overpasses but makes it up and then some coming down. Hell I had a 83 Riva 180 that would do 68 and it saw freeway time too. Just a little squirly. |
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Post by spandi on Aug 9, 2012 20:49:59 GMT -5
When I was on my scoot "Back in the day" it would not get to higher speeds all at once, but after about 30-40 minutes on the road (and without touching the throttle) the speed would begin to climb, and I don't mean by one or two miles, but eight, ten, or more. 55-57-60-62 etc, to the point I'd be letting off the throttle just to maintain my original cruising speed. Once that happened and if you were on somewhat level road. (as a lot of the interstate was) you could really fly.
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. Tells you right there that dude doesn't know much about motors. 
