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Post by prodigit on Jul 22, 2012 13:23:00 GMT -5
Hi,,
I have the BMS TBX 260 bike arriving this week, and wondered if there are some performance tips someone would like to share, on how to make the bike work better, without spending a fortune in it.
I've seen exhaust modifications, but don't know if they're worth the performance gain on this bike?
I don't really have a budget, but mainly want more HP, and if possible less fuel consumption, and at the same time a better balanced engine, meaning running not too hot, nor too cold.
One thing is I can change blinkers to LED bulbs. They are very affordable. Exhaust pipe, perhaps, if it does not require a lot of modification (meaning if the pipe fits the bike); and if it's not too expensive.
Any other tips?
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Post by derbi on Jul 22, 2012 13:28:29 GMT -5
I would get it and ride it until broken in well before planning any performance upgrades.
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Post by prodigit on Jul 22, 2012 13:30:36 GMT -5
ok, wise advise; thank you!
However the leds I'm probably already going to do.
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Post by derbi on Jul 22, 2012 13:33:20 GMT -5
ok, wise advise; thank you! However the leds I'm probably already going to do. Yes indeed thats a great plan on the lighting, and you could also fine tune the cvt for the performance you want to achieve. |
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Post by prodigit on Jul 22, 2012 14:51:23 GMT -5
I mainly want good gas mileage. I don't really rev the engine hard; and most of the time would probably drive carefully anyway.
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Post by prodigit on Jul 22, 2012 15:29:08 GMT -5
You think they'd do a motorcycle/scooter oilchange in a regular (car) garage?
Thx!
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Post by derbi on Jul 22, 2012 17:45:55 GMT -5
You think they'd do a motorcycle/scooter oilchange in a regular (car) garage? Thx! Most garages are loath to work on scooters and will not, an oil change is not hard and something every scooter owner should know how to do. It one of the things you should do when you give them their PDI as well. x1scooters.com/pdi.html |
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Post by nulldevice on Jul 22, 2012 20:00:32 GMT -5
Don't be one of those careful drivers that drive slower than the surrounding traffic. It's a lot safer for you that way. Best mileage is achieved by keeping it stock, not running it hard and keeping the fluids and filters changed as needed. If you aren't intending to use the motor to its full power stock why are you asking about modifying it before you even get it? Your goals of more power and better fuel mileage are mutually exclusive. You get one or the other, not both, especially if you use that extra power. I mainly want good gas mileage. I don't really rev the engine hard; and most of the time would probably drive carefully anyway. |
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Post by prodigit on Jul 22, 2012 21:34:43 GMT -5
I'm actually more interested in modifications to extend the range, fuel efficiency, and age of the bike, by doing performance mods, not to use more performance, but to be able to reduce effort, to be on an equal performance level as it was before, but more efficiently.
If I would change the muffler, it would never be because of sound issues. It would be because of optimized performance issues (if they are there).
I rather have a bike that has plenty of unused power spare, then one that I have to tax more to get the same achieved.
So performance tuning should not be limited to those who want to drive or accelerate fast!
It also includes those who want to feel the gratification of doing small jobs on their bike, to make it better; just so they can share it with friends who would appreciate a performance tweak more than they seem to do; or to those who can benefit from more power so they can lower their throttle a tad, thus saving gas and parts wear.
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Post by OverReved on Jul 22, 2012 21:43:19 GMT -5
Generally you'll be getting peak performance and mileage out of the box. Once you intend to increase performance that mileage is going down and vice-versa.
You most probably aren't going to get a leg up on the people who put these things together to sell them for profit day in and day out.
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Post by prodigit on Jul 23, 2012 10:03:15 GMT -5
So changing a muffler would automatically mean reduced performance?
If I find the shocks to be too hard, equipping the bike with grey market shocks will make it even worse?
There's got to be some things that can be done to improve on the bike?
Changing to LED's is one!
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Post by OverReved on Jul 23, 2012 11:39:19 GMT -5
Changing the muffler generally means no gain in performance and a light wallet.
If the bike seems too hard check your tire pressures or modify the seat cushion as a start. Tires act as shocks more so than the shocks do for small vertical travel. Don't believe me- don't have too Ride something with solid tires and see for yourself.
If you are interested in power why didn't you get a bigger bike? 260cc, fuel injected, water cooled, 70MPG 85MPH bike is what you already have.
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Post by nulldevice on Jul 23, 2012 12:30:05 GMT -5
What kind of mileage are you expecting from your scooter in stock form after break in?
My 250 gets anywhere from 60 MPG with a lot of full speed and full throttle acceleration to 100 MPG if I keep it mostly under60 MPH and accelerate at only 1/4 - 1/2 throttle or so. Those are maximum and minimum mileages I get, but normally I get 70 to 90 MPG.
That is with 300 pounds of me on the seat and a windshield that is about eight inches taller and six inches wider at the top than the stock windshield, and carbureted, not fuel injected.
LED lights may give you more visibility, but do nothing for engine performance. The scooters have shunt voltage regulators and the alternator is generating at full capacity at all times. The regulator regulates voltage by varying the load it puts on the system. The system load plus the regulator load always equals 100 percent of the alternator output. If you lighten the electric load too much you will fry your regulator.
If your solid state design and build skills are good enough you can build your own shunt regulator like I did with more capacity, but you still have a full load on the alternator. With more skills I think you can make a regulator that removes windings from the load at the zero crossing point, but that is a little beyond me at this point.
I have found on my scooter the harsh rough ride comes mostly from the front wheel, not the back.
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Post by prodigit on Jul 23, 2012 18:13:31 GMT -5
getting 90mpg is awesome!
Which kind of bike do you have?
According to the specs of my bike I'll get 60MPG out of it; which seems kind of low for a bike. I haven't tested it out yet. I'm still under 180 LBS so my weight might play a benefit in it, although increasing driver wheight is mostly slowing down accelleration, not really top speed.
If the tires are good inflated, a skinny person might travel a few miles per hour faster than a less skinny person, mostly due to increased wind resistance due to increased volume/size, not increased weight.
I also wonder why one can't reduce the power usage to LEDS?
I don't think I understand the alternator thing...
As far as I know, less battery consumption (due to LEDS; say going from 120W total light bulbs to 12W LEDS), usually means less taxing the alternator, which results in less fuel consumption.
That'd be my logic.
The alternator will be taxed more or less depending on it's load. It's load is variable depending on the state of the battery too!
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Post by nulldevice on Jul 23, 2012 21:34:04 GMT -5
My scoot is a 2008 SunL YY-250-2 and the mileage is nothing special for that class scooter. Most of my riding buddies get about the same range.
Your logic about electric load is good for automotive alternators, but they are a different beast from scooter permanent magnet alternators.
Understanding the permanent magnet alternator:
Alternators produce electricity by moving a magnets past coils of wires.
The faster the magnets go by the more electricity it produces.
The magnet and wiring stay the same, the only variable is the speed the magnets go past the wires.
The faster the motor turns the faster the alternator turns and the more electricity it makes. This is a permanent fixed system and you have no control of the alternator output beyond varying the motor speed. I repeat, we have no control over the alternator output beyond varying the motor speed.
The alternator puts out its full power all the time so we regulate the LOAD, not the output, to control the voltage. If the voltage is too high the regulator will use more current. If the voltage is too low the regulator will use less current.
So, the regulation goes something like this:
Alternator puts out 200 watts, system uses 175 watts, regulator uses 25 watts, total wattage used is 200 watts
Alternator puts out 200 watts, system uses 125 watts, regulator uses 75 watts, total wattage used is 200 watts
Alternator puts out 200 watts, system uses 50 watts, regulator uses 150 watts, total wattage used is 200 watts
Alternator puts out . . . . system uses ... , regulator uses ... , total wattage used is full output
The takeaway from all this is the system load plus the regulator load ALWAYS equals 100 percent of whatever the alternator can produce. The alternator is ALWAYS under full load. If you lighten the electrical load too much you will burn out your regulator.
I hope this helps
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Post by prodigit on Jul 24, 2012 17:32:32 GMT -5
Yes, however running the alternator under heavy load will make the magnetic friction between the magnets and the coils greater than under no load.
The alternator will act more like a generator under load, pulling the motor, and more like a flywheel under no load.
Which causes under a lot of load there's a higher gas usage; for the engine to keep performing the same as without the load.
You can't expect the engine to be taxed always the same, regardless of the alternator load!
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Post by OverReved on Jul 24, 2012 17:40:51 GMT -5
Yes, however running the alternator under heavy load will make the magnetic friction between the magnets and the coils greater than under no load. The alternator will act more like a generator under load, pulling the motor, and more like a flywheel under no load. Which causes under a lot of load there's a higher gas usage; for the engine to keep performing the same as without the load. You can't expect the engine to be taxed always the same, regardless of the alternator load! Problem is your bike has a stator not an alternator. The load is always going to be 100% and have no variations at a given RPM unless your charging system breaks. The facts stand as-you need a load on your bike and removing too much incandescent lighting will cause the regulator to overhead and die prematurely. Different theory from an alternator. |
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Post by katastroff on Jul 24, 2012 18:00:47 GMT -5
Tuning on a budget:  |
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Post by prodigit on Jul 24, 2012 19:44:37 GMT -5
Yes, however running the alternator under heavy load will make the magnetic friction between the magnets and the coils greater than under no load. The alternator will act more like a generator under load, pulling the motor, and more like a flywheel under no load. Which causes under a lot of load there's a higher gas usage; for the engine to keep performing the same as without the load. You can't expect the engine to be taxed always the same, regardless of the alternator load! Problem is your bike has a stator not an alternator. The load is always going to be 100% and have no variations at a given RPM unless your charging system breaks. The facts stand as-you need a load on your bike and removing too much incandescent lighting will cause the regulator to overhead and die prematurely. Different theory from an alternator. Not to be a jerk, but according to wikipedia and other sites, A 'stator' is the static part of a generator; alternators have them too. But if the 'dynamo' is under constant load, where does the remaining energy go to? It has to go somewhere? It could be stored in a condenser, or battery; sent perhaps to a radio. So instead of running the full 100W of lightbulbs, it could run 10W on light, and the remaining to a built in radio, or perhaps GPS charger? It would be nice if I could built in a portable car GPS system in my dashboard, or at least click it on the steering wheel while needed. Use the plug for cellphone charging while driving (perhaps install the plug in the glovebox compartment). It could also serve to power an MP3 player, which could be connected to a small (say 2x25W) amplifier; however I don't see myself installing speakers on my bike... Just an idea! So if the remaining energy is not redirected, the only way to 'release' that energy is to the battery, and/or to the spark plugs. Better sparks mean a better iginition, at the cost of the sparkplugs going bad faster. |
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Post by nulldevice on Jul 25, 2012 12:48:13 GMT -5
Yes, however running the alternator under heavy load will make the magnetic friction between the magnets and the coils greater than under no load. The alternator will act more like a generator under load, pulling the motor, and more like a flywheel under no load. Which causes under a lot of load there's a higher gas usage; for the engine to keep performing the same as without the load. You can't expect the engine to be taxed always the same, regardless of the alternator load! Please, try to wrap your mind around this. Car alternators and charging systems DO NOT WORK THE SAME WAY as scooter alternators and charging systems. Cars vary the output to regulate voltage. Scooters vary the load to regulate voltage. In stock form the alternator and load on the scooter are closely matched.This is pretty much how the majority of small scooters and motorcycles have regulated voltage since the early to mid twentieth century. Upset the balance and you get troubles in the form of poor battery charging or blown fuses, fried lights burned out regulators, toasted wiring, baked ignition components . . . Do an accounting as you add and subtract electric loads to your scooter and try to have the new total load close to the with the original total loads, or make yourself a regulator that has a lot more capacity than the stock one. Your expectations do not affect the physical world. Because of the design of the scooter alternator the total useful loads plus the variable regulator load will always add up to 100 percent of the alternator output. |
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Post by OverReved on Jul 25, 2012 13:32:18 GMT -5
Not to be a jerk, but according to wikipedia and other sites, A 'stator' is the static part of a generator; alternators have them too. Your bike has a generator, an AC generator capable of putting out hundreds of Volts AC current just like a plug in the wall of your home.. It has a Stator A stationary coil of wires. We call it the stator on your bike because that is what it is. But if the 'dynamo' is under constant load, where does the remaining energy go to? It has to go somewhere? And that is the point I'd like you to understand. once the CDI capacitor has finished charging, and the battery is fully charged, and the lights on the bike have received all the power they need to consume you are left over with more electrical energy. This energy is going to be dissipated in the form of heat by wires and your Voltage regulator. Too much heat due to this is going to fry something on the bike. Likely the Regulator. You are still needing to compensate in some way or risk damage somewhere, and the .5Amp draw of a GPS unit or a radio that isn't under appreciable load ( which can be turned off by the way) may not be sufficient. Make sense now? |
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Post by prodigit on Jul 25, 2012 15:31:12 GMT -5
There's another forum where I posted the same question.
I think the use of LED strips might be nice. They consume 2,5W each.
Normally there's some headroom with bulbs, say you have 2x35W headlights installed, and they are not in the store, you could install 2x25W without major issues.
So if I install 10 or 12 strips of 2.5W each, I'd be running 25-30W just on led strips (for under the bike, the mudguard, storage bin, etc...)
I could always replace the brakes and blinkers with LEDS, won't make much difference.
The rear (tail) lights too. That'd free up a good 30-40W for led lights,and make my bike light like a christmas tree!
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Post by OverReved on Jul 25, 2012 16:33:33 GMT -5
If you want to be one of "those guys" have at it. I think the point has been made.   |
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Post by prodigit on Jul 25, 2012 16:52:41 GMT -5
I bet you they're all LEDS!  |
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Post by nulldevice on Jul 26, 2012 10:15:38 GMT -5
25 to 30 watts of LEDs is a lot of light. I have two 10 watt LEDs mounted on my scooter behind focusing lenses and I can drive with only them after dark.
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