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Post by ar34 on Jul 5, 2012 21:51:49 GMT -5
I have a 2009 50cc 4 stroke and picked it up used, I have had an issue with it stalling after a block of driving. Just boggs out, I am guessing it is running rich. So Looked into the issues I was having today. Float fell off the gas gage, changed out the spark plug, (dark and wet). Had it running and wiggled some wires in the back next to the tank and it stalled. Started it back up and wiggled them again and it will not start now. I have no spark. found one wire when I got the plastic off disconected, put on a new connector and still no spark, cut off the conectors and reconected on the coil. I have no resistance between the top of the coil and the end of the Plug wire.
Any suggestions for me? I went through testing and posted on the CDI testing question if it helps any
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Post by wile on Jul 5, 2012 23:40:08 GMT -5
Well you know you have a bad connection somewhere since you wiggled the wires and it stalled. Check for a GROUND wire from the FRAME TO THE MOTOR it could be just a bad ground from the frame to the motor. The motor needs to be grounded to the frame otherwise the Plug will not fire. Check the wires going to the COIL make sure they are on nice and tight on the terminals. Check the wires on the CDI make sure they are all in good shape and plugged in.
If you can take pictures of the wire you found disconnected and where you connected it to. And pictures of the CDI and COIL etc.. That would help. So check the wires you wiggled and try and trace them to where each end goes that will help find the bad connection.
Wile
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Post by ar34 on Jul 6, 2012 8:35:05 GMT -5
Will do, leaving on vacation for the weekend so I hope to get them up before I leave today.
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Post by ar34 on Jul 6, 2012 14:32:04 GMT -5
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Post by ar34 on Jul 6, 2012 14:33:56 GMT -5
 think I got it this time |
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Post by ar34 on Jul 6, 2012 14:36:23 GMT -5
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Post by ar34 on Jul 11, 2012 10:52:28 GMT -5
bump to top
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Post by relaxinrob on Jul 11, 2012 20:33:03 GMT -5
That red wire you show in the picture above.....there should be a black one along with it.......try reversing them and put the red to the black and the black to the red. I have seen this work many times.
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Post by ar34 on Jul 11, 2012 22:59:09 GMT -5
Cool, I will try that. I ordered a new coil and CDI today, thinking I will just try to throw some money at it!! The wire I repaired was still in the plastic conector but not touching. when I tried to push them together I broke the wire... duh.. so I am sure this is where it needed to go but will try switching them. I have some power to the coil but I am getting nothing on the other side of it for resistance or voltage when turning over. Thinking either I am not getting enough power to it or it is bad and not sending any from the coil to the plug.  I hate electrical problems.. |
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Post by wile on Jul 11, 2012 23:11:20 GMT -5
Here are the correct connections: Wile  |
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Post by ar34 on Jul 13, 2012 23:27:08 GMT -5
Tried switching wires no luck. put in new coil and CDI in and still no spark.
Would this have anything to do with the gas gauge? Before we removed the side covers to check the wireing we were working on the float in the gas tank. I still have no spark. I have good ground.
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Post by millsc on Jul 13, 2012 23:31:17 GMT -5
what size carb and what jets are you running
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Post by ar34 on Jul 14, 2012 0:05:08 GMT -5
what size carb and what jets are you running Bought it used, think its stock, ran just OK cold and real good warm. We were trying to fix the gas guage (float fell off) and it stalled while removing the guage. Restarted after fixing float and when the wires were wiggled it stalled again. Pulled off covers and wire in picture was in plastic cover but not connected so I replaced the connector and have no spark to frame or motor. I am getting nothing through the coil in resistance. |
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Post by ar34 on Jul 14, 2012 0:08:59 GMT -5
Here is the testing I posted on CDI testing thread. Apr 14, 2009, 11:52pm, Skoot wrote: I had a similar problem. Check the wires going to the coil. If the spade connectors are loose, chances are the CDI is fried. Check the resistance between the two coil terminals. It should be around 3 ohms. Now check from the spark plug wire to one of the coil terminals... 7~9k ohms. With the coil disconnected, connect a voltmeter to the two coil wires. There should be a pulse of at least 11 volts from these wires when the engine is cranking. If not, and the stator checks are good, then replace the CDI. Checking the Stator... unplug the five wires coming from the stator... the one three-way plug and the two separate plugs. The yellow/blue wire should put out around 0.40 volts to ground when cranking. If not, replace the stator. The Black with red stripe (CDI charge wire) can be anywhere from 50~100 volts to ground when cranking, but will still charge the CDI enough to spark all the way down to 10 volts. Any lower then the stator is bad. Measure the stator's resistance. Unplug it and measure between the black with the red stripe and the green wire in the 3-way plug. The resistance should be 450 ~550 ohms. If not, then replace the stator. Lastly, the black wire with the white stripe, plugged into the CDI, should NOT be grounded when the key is on and the kill switch on the handlebars is in the middle position. If it is, then either the kill switch is bad or the ignition switch is bad. OK, I suck at trouble shooting electrical... resistance between the two terminals is .3, guessing that is 3 resistance between the terminals and the wire is nothing?? while turning over I got real high readings 50-60 and down to like 6 after turning over a little while .06 volts on the yellow/black (not blue??) .20-.40 on the black/red reading 40-98 on the resistance between red/black and green So I am guessing that the Stator is bad, but not sure... and where is it? I am guessing the black square box is the CDI and not the stator. this is a 2009 50cc Huawin NX3 correct anything wrong, im new to scootin. and its for my son. My problems is NO spark with new plug. Wiggled some wires and it stalled and will not start. Read more: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=22158#ixzz20ZQlEh53 |
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Post by ar34 on Jul 14, 2012 0:13:09 GMT -5
seems like a kill switch is working?? I have it on the center stand and have been starting on the side stand before working on it. kill switch on the handle bars does not let me turn it over when off.
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Post by wile on Jul 14, 2012 0:33:33 GMT -5
Have you checked the GROUND WIRES, GREEN are your grounds. You should find them grounded to the frame and one important one is FRAME TO THE MOTOR. Most have a Ground wire going from one of the VALVE COVER BOLTS to the Frame. Check for spark on the frame and on the motor. If it sparks on the FRAME but not the motor then ADD a wire to one of the Valve cover bolts and find a good ground on the frame. I mentioned that before but you never said you tested for spark on the frame and if it sparked there. Make sure you have the right wire from the CDI to the COIL on the right Terminal on the Coil one is ground.
Wile
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Post by ar34 on Jul 14, 2012 1:16:36 GMT -5
damn coumputer, typed out nice long reply and bam.... no conection
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Post by ar34 on Jul 14, 2012 1:21:46 GMT -5
In short. Thanks for your suggestions..
Good ground resistance from green wire to motor, green on frame to frame and frame to motor.
No spark to frame or motor.
some voltage from red on meter touching green and black into unplugged black wires on coil
first start 50-60 v, second turn over is 10-6v and third is down to 5-6v. not sure what this means.
meter reads no resistance between wires on coil to plug, any part or plug boot.
Green wire to green terminal and black to black on coil.
Strange part is scooter was running untill I wiggled the wires harness.
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Post by ar34 on Jul 14, 2012 1:30:05 GMT -5
Also have resistance through all conections. If a wire is broken in the isnulation I am not sure? but all conections have been wiggled and checked from one end to the other and all have resistance.
Also can not kick start and bypass the kill wire to the CDI
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Post by relaxinrob on Jul 14, 2012 11:16:52 GMT -5
Do you have a kill switch on the side stand? some do!
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Post by ar34 on Jul 24, 2012 1:24:10 GMT -5
Well, ordered a new stator, when I turn it over I get 15V for a second and then nothing when testing the wires from the stator. Stopped at a dealership to get some help or give them some business and got the BS that if they worked on these Chineese scooters they would be out of business. Guess they do not want my business giving me crap for going local and offering them work...Sure hope this new stator works... lol
Checked my grounds again. they are good. No kill on the kickstand. Thanks Wile, for your input. you help a lot of people on this forum.
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Post by ar34 on Jul 31, 2012 0:11:39 GMT -5
bump to top. new stator did not give me spark. Need some directed help PLEASE
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Post by ar34 on Jul 31, 2012 0:37:22 GMT -5
Looks like I am going to need directed assistance. Post it and I will try it. I have a meter but have no good knowledge on how to use it correctly. Any and all assistance is welcome.
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Post by kixome on Jul 31, 2012 1:15:18 GMT -5
Take all grounds off the coil and then try. This is called isolating the coil. If this does not work then look elsewhere. Look for any ground continuity to the coil then disconnect it and try. Very old trick. Very old style probs.
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Post by boosterb16 on Aug 1, 2012 15:13:27 GMT -5
I had a no spark issue on my scoot. It was the cdi, I had the blue one and I went back to stock and sticking with it.
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Post by ar34 on Aug 3, 2012 10:46:18 GMT -5
Kixome, I think you are on to something. Just got to looking at it again today, used my meter on tone, I have ground (tone) from both sides of the coil to the frame. I was thinking I did not have gound when I checked it but instead I have ground to both sides. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this means I have a short someplace. I am thinking I should have ground to the green side (thats what it is) again correct me if wrong. Thinking I am going to have to unwrap all the wires going toward the key.
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Post by ar34 on Aug 3, 2012 21:20:15 GMT -5
OK, guess I have no idea how to trouble shoot this thing. I hate electrical trouble shooting.
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Post by OverReved on Aug 3, 2012 22:36:51 GMT -5
Cool, I will try that. I ordered a new coil and CDI today, thinking I will just try to throw some money at it!! That doesn't work out so well does it? Electrical trouble shooting is easy, you just need to not skip steps, or assume a reading is "good enough" as you and others have done. I looked at your post on the other thread. You posted a reading of 3 from terminal to terminal on your coil- this is a good reading ( 3 Ohms) You posted no reading from terminal to spark-plug boot. You should double check this from terminal to boot using both terminals. The reading should be the same for each terminal to boot test. The range you are looking for is 30-50 Ohms or 7-11 thousand Ohms. You need to have your meter set to a proper scale for each potential reading if it is not an auto ranging type. Further diagnosis would involve looking for a spark jumping out of the side of the spark plug wire- but you'd probably have noticed this if it was happening. Checking the plug and the coil are easy steps but generally result in no problems found. If I were you I'd concentrate on checking the stator and coil-pick up. The stator is located under a generally gold colored flywheel under the fan for your Bike on the side of the engine and its wires will come out of the side or top of the engine near this location. The stator has probably 6-8poles.There will be 5 wires coming out- three in a coupler and 2 pig tails. The three wires are for charging the battery, supplying voltage to the headlamps,and a ground. The 2 wires in pigtails are the important ones for your spark issue. Your wires in pigtails coming from the stator harness supply two AC voltages that do different things. The first pigtail wire for coil pick-up is probably blue, blue with a white stripe, red, red with a white stripe and when you are cranking the engine over ( remove spark plug--makes this easy) with a strong battery or kick starting should read more than .5Volts AC to a ground. Without this voltage your spark plug will not fire. The second pigtail wire is probably red, red with stripe, black, black with stripe. This wire is responsible for charging a capacitor in side the CDI. When you crank the engine over ( again with no plug to make it easy) you want a reading of 20-85 Volts AC to a ground. The higher the better. If you can't get these readings then you have an issue with your stator. If the readings you get are --as above--then you can move on to testing the CDI wiring. |
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Post by ar34 on Aug 4, 2012 22:29:39 GMT -5
First of all I want to thank you for your time!!Cool, I will try that. I ordered a new coil and CDI today, thinking I will just try to throw some money at it!! That doesn't work out so well does it? Electrical trouble shooting is easy, you just need to not skip steps, or assume a reading is "good enough" as you and others have done. I looked at your post on the other thread. You posted a reading of 3 from terminal to terminal on your coil- this is a good reading ( 3 Ohms) New coil is reading .6 Ohms You posted no reading from terminal to spark-plug boot. You should double check this from terminal to boot using both terminals. The reading should be the same for each terminal to boot test. The range you are looking for is 30-50 Ohms or 7-11 thousand Ohms. You need to have your meter set to a proper scale for each potential reading if it is not an auto ranging type. I am getting 12.32 from the pole to the end of the spark plug. my meter probe is not long enough to get all the way in the boot.Further diagnosis would involve looking for a spark jumping out of the side of the spark plug wire- but you'd probably have noticed this if it was happening. Correct I have not seenChecking the plug and the coil are easy steps but generally result in no problems found. If I were you I'd concentrate on checking the stator and coil-pick up. The stator is located under a generally gold colored flywheel under the fan for your Bike on the side of the engine and its wires will come out of the side or top of the engine near this location. The stator has probably 6-8poles.There will be 5 wires coming out- three in a coupler and 2 pig tails. The three wires are for charging the battery, supplying voltage to the headlamps,and a ground. The 2 wires in pigtails are the important ones for your spark issue. Your wires in pigtails coming from the stator harness supply two AC voltages that do different things. The first pigtail wire for coil pick-up is probably blue, blue with a white stripe, red, red with a white stripe and when you are cranking the engine over ( remove spark plug--makes this easy) with a strong battery or kick starting should read more than .5Volts AC to a ground. Without this voltage your spark plug will not fire. ]Meter set on V_-_ (squiggly line) 200 I am getting 3-2 reading with ground to batt and frame, nothing to engin. My first readings were 5V when I hit the starter and down to 2 in a split second.The second pigtail wire is probably red, red with stripe, black, black with stripe. This wire is responsible for charging a capacitor in side the CDI. When you crank the engine over ( again with no plug to make it easy) you want a reading of 20-85 Volts AC to a ground. The higher the better. 61-62 to frame, batt, and engin.If you can't get these readings then you have an issue with your stator. If the readings you get are --as above--then you can move on to testing the CDI wiring.
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Post by ar34 on Aug 4, 2012 22:38:35 GMT -5
Thanks a bunch again Overreved, Took me a few trys to get the correct setting on my meter to get the readings through the coil, but your direction was perfect. This did come out higher than you stated. My voltage out of the blue wire is not 5, after a few trys, and does not stay at 5 either.
How am I doing??lol
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I hate electrical problems..
