|
|
Post by scootard on May 3, 2012 18:30:46 GMT -5
Hey Null:
Is the thing with the wire and rubber boot part of the "enrichment circuit"? It looks like some sort of electrically actuated doohickey.
|
|
|
|
Post by wile on May 3, 2012 18:45:49 GMT -5
That is cool, It is what I thought IT DOES NOT HAVE A PUMP, so that B.S from the Mechanic about giving the throttle a couple of twists is just that B.S. It has an Automatic Choke and gas ONLY gets sucked out of the Carb Bowl with suction. Wile You need to use caution with Wile's advice. Don't go hector your mechanic because of what he said. Each time you twist the throttle, the accelerator pump gives a small squirt of gas from the float bowl into the intake and primes the motor. It has nothing to do with setting the choke or cold idle speed. Its main use is to prevent a hesitation or stumble of the motor when you quickly open the throttle at low to moderate motor speed. Next, there is no choke in the scooter CV carbs I have seen. A choke is a plate that rotates and nearly shuts off the air going into the carburetor. Instead they have a fuel circuit that lets extra fuel flow when the motor is first started. It has an electrically operated valve that gradually shuts the extra fuel flow off as the motor warms up. The idle mixture and idle speed is set after the motor is fully warmed up, not cold. Sorry Nulldevice but before you put down what I said you ought to learn about Carbs and especially the one that is on that scoot. You can twist the throttle all day long and all it is doing is opening the Throttle plate(if you even know what that is). Do you even know what a PUMP looks like on a carb? That carb has no pump and is dependant on the ENRICHER for cold starts to feed it extra fuel and ONLY as the motor is cranking over creating suction to suck in fuel and air. NO SUCKY SUCKY NO FUELY FUELY. The Enrichers PLUNGER BY DEFAULT when cold is RETRACTED which in that position the fuel is allowed to be sucked in behind the ENRICHER and be sucked into the intake as you crank the motor over. Once the motor starts voltage is fed to the ENRICHER and as it starts to warm up the PLUNGER starts to EXTEND out and in about 3-4 minutes it shuts off the Fuel from coming in and no more extra fuel gets fed to the motor. There are a lot of wannabees on forums that believe they know how things work. So be carefull of some of the advice given they will have you replaceing sh!t because they do not know how to diagnose a problem and or fix it. It is very hard to find a mechanic that knows his stuff, most places cannot diagnose a problem to save their souls. All they do is start replaceing parts and your eyeballs pop out when you go and pick it up and see the bill. Then they start with the lieing that it was this and that for something that was a simple fix that you could have done yourself. If your not mechanical watch out its no different than when some poor soul takes a car in for a problem. Because you do not know they can tell you anything and you have to suck it up and pay or you will not get your car out of the shop. Wile |
|
|
|
Post by scootard on May 3, 2012 19:28:34 GMT -5
Hey Null:
Is the thing with the wire and the rubber boot in the picture some sort of thermo-electrically actuated valve for the enricher circuit?
That would explain why a quick squirt with the throttle before cranking allows for it to "cold set". Then as the engine warms up it can retract, and return to a warm idle.
|
|
|
|
Post by scootard on May 3, 2012 19:34:42 GMT -5
I just don't know anymore, but it did start better after 3 twists of the throttle before cranking with ignition on. Previously required 30 sec of cranking in 4-6 tries before firing even a little.
I just know the Maj starts even ice cold after about 5 sec. cranking,,,idles high then slows after about 30 sec of high idle.
|
|
|
|
Post by wile on May 3, 2012 19:49:34 GMT -5
O-K-E Dokey,
Ride safe
Wile
|
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 3, 2012 21:05:46 GMT -5
Well, I would ....Wile. If I could! It is raining here again!
sigh.....We are three weeks into it...
|
|
|
|
Post by hanilanzi on May 3, 2012 21:08:26 GMT -5
+1 Wile! great explanation! and love the comment about "wannabees" on forums, some peeps think that changing oil and filter on a car every 7500 miles makes them mechanics, but they'd be surprised when you start explaining how opening windows works  |
|
|
|
Post by wile on May 3, 2012 22:47:13 GMT -5
Thank you Hanilanzi, I am just here to help and no more, if they don't want my help, Hey just tell me WILE KEEP OFF THIS THREAD or whatever and I will oblige no skin off my ass ;D  . Don't know why he said what he did but it was not called for and from what he said he does not know carbs. When I see a reponse that is not true I will usually respond and tell how or what is the real deal BUT I do not put the guy down with the incorrect info or bad info. Wile |
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 4, 2012 1:20:44 GMT -5
Well, I know that things can get "heated" on these forums at times. I also know that things can (and should) stay "civil" and respectful while airing a difference of opinion, facts, or techniques. I'm grateful for all of the information that has been given. My husband is the "gear head"; not me... So, it's all like another language to me. However, I'm trying to learn as much as I can so that if I still have the bike when the warranty is up, I might be familiar with what can go wrong and how to fix stuff.....:-). So, thank you ......EVERYBODY for your input.......:-).
Looks like rain through the weekend.....:-(.. Maybe I'm supposed to learn to ride in the rain; which I ain't too keen on.....:-(.
|
|
|
|
Post by h3nry on May 4, 2012 3:31:38 GMT -5
Slow down extra early and brake easier. Try to not turn when breaking in the rain. Drive in a large empty parking lot, should get you used to it pretty well when wet
Oh and if you slip a little, don't be scared of it, just make sure you firmly get you're foot on the ground to keep you level.
|
|
|
|
Post by EPAhater on May 4, 2012 7:22:25 GMT -5
Wile is correct on the accelerator pump and unless the carb has this it doesn't have one and all the 250's with a linhai I've see don't. The picture is a carb with a accelerator pump. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by WarrenS on May 4, 2012 9:12:21 GMT -5
The black thing in your first photo Is the enrichener. It allows extra fuel in when cold The electrical connection heats up some wax which extends a needle to cut off the extra gas when it is warned up. If the needle was stuck in the extended position or if the port was clogged it would not get the extra gas to aid in starting.
I will not get into the pumping the throttle discussion. If it works for you so be it.
|
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 4, 2012 10:06:07 GMT -5
Well, today is another wet day here. Not raining, but it must have through the night because the ground is wet.  I think I will do the parking lot thing for practice. Good idea, "H3nry". I watched a movie last night were this girl was in a high speed chase on a motorcycle and when the car she was chasing crashed, she somehow "swirved" and it looked like she literally layed the bike down and was standing over it!  I thought......"how in the world did she do that??!"  That's for big people....haha. I'm still "little".  In regard to the cold start. It happened just like my husband said. We could never get the thing to turn on the first try. It always took several tries; at least 4-5 before it would start. Then somebody told us to "roll on the throttle" 2-3 times and THEN try to start it. We tried it that way the next day, and it started right away. Now, we haven't tried it since because of the weather. But today might be a good day to try it that way first and see it that starts it immediately or not. If it does, I couldn't tell you why. But I sure wouldn't be mad about it! ha |
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 5, 2012 1:39:05 GMT -5
Well, went out today for my maiden voyage in the rain. But before I started it, Scootard rolled the throttle 3 times, I hit the switch and it fired right up. So, for whatever reason, that is how it starts. I'm just glad we got it going with out any problems.....
I'm convinced that I don't like riding in the rain. But at least I know what it is like now.....:-(
|
|
|
|
Post by nulldevice on May 5, 2012 11:43:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by wile on May 5, 2012 13:39:57 GMT -5
Sorry nice try but that is not a 250 carb. I can show you all different types of carbs with Enrichers and Pumps, with just Enrichers no Pumps, with No Enrichers just pumps BUT none are for the 250 scoots. I also know when people for some reason will not acknowledge the truth and make up some sh!t just because. To those I have a saying: YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE THEM DRINK. And for those I say good luck and bid them a safe ride, They can pull someone else's chain but not mine. ;D Here is the EXACT carb that is on the chicks scoot and NO PUMP. Just F.Y.I I have been working on scoots, bikes, cars for a living for decades and know carbs, cvts, trannies, motors like the back of my hand. Not the best in Electricals but scoot electrecials are not rocket science. Wile    |
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 5, 2012 22:07:19 GMT -5
You know, Wile...... I think you are right. We looked at it. Scootard looked at this pic you posted and said " yep. That's it"!
by the way, whatever kink was in the thing that kept it from starting cold, seems to have fixed itself. :-). It is running great. When we went out today I didn't roll the throttle at all because I thought by husband did when he took it off the center stand for me. So, I just pushed the button. Then he asked me if I rolled the throttle and I said: "no! I htought you did"..ha. It was evening when we went out tonight and cool outside as well. It started right up though....:-).
Sooooo, what do you think was causing that hesitation??
|
|
|
|
Post by wile on May 5, 2012 22:30:09 GMT -5
Probably a little gunk that maybe got sucked in and maybe accumulated and could of covered 1 or 2 of the 4 TINY outllet fuel holes by the Butterfly. Seeing the carb and motor covered with all that white from the construction going on probably just cleared up and or cranking the throttle open and closed maybe scraped the crud off the holes.
But Am glad your problem is solved.
Be carefull out there
Wile
|
|
|
|
Post by scootard on May 6, 2012 0:05:01 GMT -5
Wile: You are very probably right about gunk. The scooter is a 2009 model but new. Scooter Chick now has 179km. on it and seems to be starting and running fine. It's good dto know experts available if we have more problems. Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by dumbass on May 6, 2012 20:43:49 GMT -5
I've had this same conversation with someone on another scooter site about a CF Moto V5/V3. They (including a distributor) for CF Moto insists the correct why to start the engine is with the throttle cracked 1/8th to 1/4 open. Even the user manual says this. After several back and forth comments I think it was agreed rolling or cracking the throttle actually does nothing to inprove the starting on the engine hot or cold.
In my opinion it's just an old hold over from the carb days of cars when they actually did have carb bumps the squirt a shot into the engine. Something that a lot of people still do today on their fuel injected cars.
Bob
|
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 7, 2012 10:38:07 GMT -5
Well, hopefully it will continue to start without any problems. I am over the 200k mark as of yesterday. SO, when I finally reach the 500k which is when I have to have the first service, I will let the mechanic know. Strangely enough the mechanic and his son are the owner of the store as well and the distributor of Saga scoots in our area.
|
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 7, 2012 13:22:22 GMT -5
Now, if it was in fact "gunk" that got sucked into the thingee....is there some kind of gas treatment or something that I should be using to keep this from happening again? What causes that to happen in the first place??
|
|
|
|
Post by wile on May 7, 2012 13:35:19 GMT -5
Seafoam, 1oz per gallon of gas, will keep things clean. Over 3 years never had to clean my carb, just adjust the Fuel Ratio Mixture for temp changes.
Wile
|
|
|
|
Post by hanilanzi on May 7, 2012 15:13:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by marvintm on May 7, 2012 18:53:17 GMT -5
i have the same problem with my saga 50cc i found that if i try and the let it sit for about a min the 2nd or 3rd time it starts . i been having problem only when its 5cel or colder outside
|
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 8, 2012 11:42:21 GMT -5
ok, except I don't think we have the "seafoam" stuff here in Canada. We do have something called "Stabil" which we usually put in a little just before we stored our bikes for the winter. It is supposed to keep the gas from getting gunky or something. Would that be the same thing or is that just for long term storage? |
|
|
|
Post by ScooterChick on May 20, 2012 0:48:11 GMT -5
ok, So here is the latest.
Hubby and I took the bike out today. Started up just fine, but sounded a bit slow to me on the idle. Nevertheless, we went, topped if off with gas and went for a ride setting the trip meter before leaving. 21 k's later, the bike just quits on me. We got it started, but it sounded really low in idle again. We went about 5 or yards and boom.....just quit on me again while riding through a very crowed parking lot with lots of cars and people. Chris was ahead of me both times since I didn't know my way through the park.
We finally had to have it towed. The dealer refused to give us a refund and return our trade-in. He said they needed to send it back to the distributor who we got on the phone and complained to and we said that the bike has never run properly. He told the mechanic to bring it back to him and they would do the work on it. He says he has gone as far as he can go with what they trained him to do.
He rode it around a few times and it went just fine; even though we had just had it towed in. THEN, I said..." you need to ride it at about 20-30-k's and then let it idle for a minute. He did. It stalled. He tried to start it and it wouldn't until the 4th try. then he says "well, it seems to be fine now"....What a joke! And by the way, he refused to pay the tow on it as well. Good thing the towing company said they owed my husband a favor, so they waived the cost. (privately). I asked for a loaner bike; they refused. I told him they need to give me another bike or they need to give me my money back. They said they could not refund the money.
Then went on to tell me that they didn't make any money on the sale. AND that they didn't get paid from their higher ups for the service and time that they put into working on it. Now, from where I'm sitting....the bike is under warranty. This is not a "favor", but basic customer service; or it should be anyway.
I asked my husband if he signed something that waived a refund. He had not. I said again, clearly something is wrong. The mechanic(s) agreed, but said there was nothing else they could do. Now, remember...we gave him the bike this past Tuesday and it wasn't ready umtil yesterday. He told us it was fine. He drove it for 10 k's. I told him the problem is when you are starting or slowing down. It just abruptly shuts off.
Now, we had to leave it with them again. It's a holiday weekend here in Canada. So, it's sitting until next Wednesday to go to another city where the distributor is to be tested by THEIR mechanic. Who knows when it will come back. They have my money and my bike. I did take a video of us trying to start it, where we were, us trying to start it several more times before the tow truck guy started putting it up on the rack.
I'm digusted. I'm soooo done.
|
|
|
|
Post by fairweasel2323 on May 20, 2012 2:56:15 GMT -5
Well that is a shame and I do hope the mechanic knows where the carb is for your sake because I think he is giving you guys a story. First you cannot adjust the choke and Its a 5 minute job to adjust the carb if he knows anything about carbs. But hope it all works out for you, good luck. Wile AMEN! |
|
|
|
Post by fairweasel2323 on May 20, 2012 2:59:58 GMT -5
I just don't know anymore, but it did start better after 3 twists of the throttle before cranking with ignition on. Previously required 30 sec of cranking in 4-6 tries before firing even a little. I just know the Maj starts even ice cold after about 5 sec. cranking,,,idles high then slows after about 30 sec of high idle. Only way twisting throttle works is if ur twisting it as the motor is cranking no cranking no fuel being pump Hint Va cum Petcock!!! |
|
|
|
Post by fairweasel2323 on May 20, 2012 3:00:34 GMT -5
+1 Wile! great explanation! and love the comment about "wannabees" on forums, some peeps think that changing oil and filter on a car every 7500 miles makes them mechanics, but they'd be surprised when you start explaining how opening windows works AMEN! |
|
. 
I think I will do the parking lot thing for practice. 
I thought......"how in the world did she do that??!" 
