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Post by WildMan on Jun 8, 2010 20:51:57 GMT -5
A Dawg's The Reason Your ICE BEAR TRIKE JUMPS OR SHUTTERS is because of faulty case or from stress & strain dew to torque & weight.. More info toward the bottom of the page of this link.. scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=threewheelers&action=display&thread=29108&page=17What a depressing day.. Just got Bear reassembled, so the parts don't get lost... Everything in the transmission gear box & it's components are in good shape, all of that jumping I was getting last fall & part of the winter went away, then came back about 3 times over this last couple of weeks.. I believe there's 2 possibilities, 1) The left side engine case had a flaw in the casting of the final drive where the bearing was held in place, allowing the bearing & shaft to move, which allowed the teeth to jump, breaking out the casting, or 2) The final drive shaft was flexing dew to all the torque & weight (400 lb + 260 lb = 660 lb) & causing the gears to jump teeth & busting up the case.. I'll bet that's wolfhound's & his body's problem too!! Here the kicker thought, remember over the winter the email I said I got from Ice Bear that they basically said there was a known problem in the drive train, but nobody would say exactly what that problem was?? Well listen to this, I call Scooters Dynasty, & they said the 150cc trikes are no longer available w/ a reverse gear box because of all the problems.. NOW IS THAT SOME sh!t OR WHAT??   David Sr. |
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Post by rapidjim on Jun 9, 2010 7:43:14 GMT -5
It is true that IB has had numerous problems with the 09 150s and reverse gear. It is also true that the new 2010 models do not have reverse.
Now why IB decided to remove reverse instead of fixing the problem is beyond me. At least they admit there is a problem, unlike some others I could mention. All my Rep was told was that the bike is light enough not to need reverse, now that doesn't help folks with a handicap that would need it. They would have to go with a 300 to get reverse.
Now as far as the 300cc is concerned, the reverse is in the rear diff as I showed in the my PDI pictures of the Magnums we did. It has a very long throw on the control, 180 degree swing at the handlebar. It feels very solid and no jumping between reverse and forward.
I have seen nor worked on any 150s so I have to rely on what I have read on the forums and ask questions from IB.
I do have a 50cc in the shop now we ordered for a customer as I get it done I will post what I find.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by rapidjim on Jun 9, 2010 8:03:17 GMT -5
David Sr. I took the liberty of sending your pictures to my rep at IB Ca and asked if the motor case caused the problem if it would be covered under warranty. I will follow up with a phone call this afternoon. Hope you don't mind.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by Bluefront on Jun 9, 2010 8:05:08 GMT -5
FWIW.....I was at a local dealer early the other day. The owner was bringing some scoots/trikes outside. He was backing up one trike (don't know the brand). He backed close to his parked pick-up, tried to put it in forward to make a turn....had some trouble shifting, and when he finally got it in gear it shot backwards and smashed against his own truck. Man was he pissed......  |
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Post by WildMan on Jun 9, 2010 8:55:02 GMT -5
rapidjim
That would be great!! Though it probably won't get traction, because early this year I replaced the rear sprocket (because I was putting an $80.00 sealed O-ring chain on & didn't want to put a new chain on used sprockets), & discovered a problem in the differential.. So I took the differential apart & found 1 bad bearing all the spider gear shims were all chewed up.. I got Ice Bear to replace the differential under warranty, but at the same time there was a discussion about the transmission gear box problems & they said if they warranty the differential that they wouldn't warranty anything farther to do w/ any gear box issues.. Well, that's another sign they knew there were more up coming drive issues.. I sent the pics to Scooters Dynasty & they forwarded them to Ice Bear, but Vince at Scooter Dynasty fears Ice Bear will reject the claim.. The above issue will be how they get out from under my claim.. I can't hold this against Scooters Dynasty because Vince does his part w/ any of my Scooter issues, a little slow to respond, but that's most likely an Ice Bear issue as well..
David Sr.
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Post by mountainmoped on Jun 9, 2010 8:59:18 GMT -5
I have spent much time watching Wolf's Ruckus clone Icebear jump and shudder when he starts off--the entire swingarm twists slightly. His engine is totally unsupported on the PTO side where my H model has 3 stout brackets securing it to the swingarm. I believe the swingarm and frame are flexing due to the torque of the engine. I put synthetic 90 wt. oil in his gearbox last week and could find no metal at all in the old oil. I plan to fabricate a system of braces (rigid triangle for Wolf' Icebear.
I have run into the same shuddering problem with some of the heavily modified pedal type mopeds that we sell. Tightening motormount bolts and reinforcing solves the problems with the mopeds.
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Post by WildMan on Jun 9, 2010 9:14:13 GMT -5
mountainmoped
Ya, that's a vary high possibility, I to believe the problem stems from the high torque, though on the PST150-11 model engine mounts in 4 places..
Though if Ice Bear won't replace it, I'm trying to decide weather to buy left side case, seals, gears, & bearings or just spend the $475. for a whole new engine...
David Sr.
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Post by rapidjim on Jun 9, 2010 15:17:33 GMT -5
Here is what IB sent me:
Jim,
The problem with the gear box happen when we changed the reverse from the side of the unit to the handle bar. When the unit was put into reverse, the reverse cable did not pull all the way so the unit was not engaging into reverse and after time it started to damage the gear box. We changed the lever to have the two points on it to be farther apart to properly engage the units. I have not had many issues after the reverse lever was changed. Most of the people calling about the gear boxes are customers with the old reverse levers. If it is within the warranty period I do warranty it.
I am not sure which model this customer has. Like I said before the only times I have spoken to customers about this issue has been because of the reverse issue.
Thank you,
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by als01seville on Jun 9, 2010 15:21:58 GMT -5
Jim, Well that sounds promesing for the Wildman. You are TERRIFIC my man. Never have I seen or heard of a Dealer be so helpfull. You go far beyond helping people and the THING THATS STICKS OUT IS "THEY DID NOT BUY FROM YOU". That is "UNHEARD OF IN MY NECK OF THE WOODS". When my PST150H Trike gives it up I will definitely order a 300cc from you and go and pick it up(AFTER A PDI OF COURSE )  . I live in Suburb of Chicago (Westmont-60559). So I think its about a 4 hour Drive to where you are at in WI. Also if anyone is looking to buy one I will POINT THEM YOUR WAY. Me and my Brother-in Law always get stopped by people asking the usual, how fast does it go where did you get it, how much etc.. Alleyoop |
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Post by rapidjim on Jun 9, 2010 16:02:17 GMT -5
Alley al I can say is that is how I do business and I am always willing to help someone out if I can. Just my upbringing I guess. Thank you sir for your kind words. Let's just hope his machine is still under warranty.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by WildMan on Jun 9, 2010 16:13:20 GMT -5
rapidjim
Yes my trike still has 3 months left on the warranty... I'm still waiting to hear from Vince at Scooters Dynasty.. Why is it you have info from Ice Bear in near half the time as my dealer??
David Sr.
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Post by rapidjim on Jun 10, 2010 9:06:17 GMT -5
I can't answer why I get info faster than Scooter Dynasty. I do know that Vince is a great guy to work with. I just do what I do. I do have 2 really great reps at IB and they answer me as soon as they can whether I call or email. Sometimes I have to wait for an answer because my rep has to contact China and wait for a response.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by marciag on Jun 10, 2010 18:21:46 GMT -5
Jim is the "salt of the earth." What can I say? He made a phone call to me that really made my day. Looking forward to getting my scoot....driving over 600 miles just so Jim can do my PDI! It will be worth it. I'm glad I didn't by my trike from anybody else! And I could have purchased it MUCH closer to home! Marcia  |
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Post by mymomwantsatrike on Jun 13, 2010 10:36:16 GMT -5
hello great info all over this forum and a trike purchase for my mom is in the works these "little" things don't bother me that go wrong with the chinese scooters and trikes. inferior parts and little odds and ends can always be replaced with better parts. but this drivetrain thing bothers me and i can't seem to find a consensus opinion here the trike being purchased is for a 64 year old woman who expects downtime with her trike, and expects repair costs. she understands its a chinese scooter and just wants to ride, even if it cost money from time to time and some trips to the shop but this seems like a big problem, so i just wonder if its a common problem with all these trikes, and just how expensive it is to repair at a shop? and will it stay fixed? i myself can tinker, but i'm no "wrencher" like others here and have limited time to help my mom out when i went to the shop yesterday (High Style Motoring in Whittier) the guy told me he didn't like to sell trikes because they could be problematic and asked if i was a mechanic, or real mechanically inclined. he said there is more to them, and have to be looked after more diligently. he even tried to steer us to the two wheelers after saying a trike was the only option he said they did sell them and would sell us one, but expect additional cost. that is fine, it is expected. but i don't want to recommend something to my mother if the trans / differential is going to fail or the trike is going to jump and shudder from a lousy design flaw or whatever it is? it seems ice bear thinks the problem was only the reverse gear, but i see conflicting opinions here from people who know a lot more then i. i am about to make another thread |
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Post by tsaphah on Aug 21, 2010 17:47:54 GMT -5
Does IB use any other names? Was looking at a trike.
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Post by WildMan on Nov 26, 2010 18:45:08 GMT -5
A Guy's
The Big Bad BEAR will be coming back to life soon!!! Today I received the WARRANTY left side engine case w/ the final drive & the forward/ reverse gear box complete & fully intact!!! Why couldn't they have done that 6 months ago?? In a few days I'll have a new bearing that will fix the reason why the final drive came apart in the first place...
I'll keep you all posted...
David L.Wild Sr.
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Post by buiditright on Nov 27, 2010 7:35:45 GMT -5
I would like to say that Jim is a stand up guy and one heck of a business man. I asked him for help and he responded right away with help. He is still working on part of my problem.. I sent something to another company and I am still waiting on their responce that was over two (2) months ago..
Jim thank you so much for helping me. I had to have my leg amputated from above the knee down and not sure if I will be able to ride my scoots anymore but if I can't and have to go to a trike I will certainly go through you Jim..I will see how it goes when I get my pretend leg.
Bill
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Post by rapidjim on Nov 27, 2010 11:34:04 GMT -5
Wildman, great news ( I did get your email). Let me know how it goes.
Thanks Bulitright for the kind words. Good luck to you an your leg, I have a very close friend that lost his leg in Vietnam and was afraid he would never ride again, he has a prosthesis and still rides his Harley to this day with very little problems. Remember you can do what ever you want if you put your mind to it.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by WildMan on Nov 28, 2010 1:02:19 GMT -5
OK Dawgs Here's some pics of my Left side Engine Case Warranty replacement... I opened the Final Drive unit to investigate as to whether or not it had 2 Radial Ball Bearings on the Final Output Shaft, & as I suspected the replacement unit only had 1 Radial Ball Bearing on the Final Drive Output Shaft, Cover end of Shaft (which as I said before is the reason I believe the finals drive unit blew apart on the BEAR)... So after investigating & inspecting the Final Drive Unit & Forward/ Reverse Gear Box Unit, I installed a second Japanese Open C3 #6004 Deep Groove Radial Ball Bearing into the Final Drive Unit for the Final Output Shaft... So now the Final Drive Unit the same number of bearing & the same support for the shafts & gears as any GY6 two wheel Scooter engine. Below is the Final Drive Exposed... Note Circled is the Final Drive Output Shaft & the missing Radial Ball Bearing... Above is the Final Drive Exposed... Note Circled is the Final Output Shaft w/ a Radial Ball Bearing installed... Tomorrow I'll split engine case from the BEAR & reassemble to the new Left Side Engine Case Replacement... Hopefully I'll get the BEAR back to life in a couple of days... David Sr. |
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Post by WildMan on Nov 30, 2010 1:37:17 GMT -5
OK Dawg's The Big Bad Blue Bear is on the Prowl Once Again!!!!!!  Got the final drive fixed, the engine assembled w/ left engine case replacement, & mounted back in the trike... 1:00 am got it fired up, first time it's been fired up in 6 months... Seem to be running real good, & tires turn in forward & reverse, that's a +... Hope to give it a test run in the PM between the rain drops... David Sr. |
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Post by rapidjim on Nov 30, 2010 8:43:49 GMT -5
Good to hear. Let us know what how it goes.
Jim
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Post by WildMan on Dec 2, 2010 15:51:36 GMT -5
OK Dawg's Got to take the BEAR on it's first test run since getting it back together w/ the repaired drive train & sitting all torn apart for 6 months... 25 mile test ride went absolutely Great!!!!!! Drive train felt vary solid through out the whole trip... Did a lot of forward & reversing around the house, felt vary smooth & vary solid going from forward to reverse, & reverse to forward... Absolutely no shuddering, jumping, skipping from launch or acceleration from a dead stop, or powering up a steep hill at a corner... The added Radial Ball Bearing makes the whole drive train feel a lot more solid... David Sr. |
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Post by mymomwantsatrike on Dec 6, 2010 11:06:55 GMT -5
wow man its been a looong road. congrats on getting it up and going
i bet its better now then when it came from the factory
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Post by WildMan on Dec 20, 2010 1:46:02 GMT -5
A Dawg's
It 23 deg. & lots of snow, but today the roads were clear & dry... The BEAR had another great 50 mile run today... The upgraded Final Drive is working flawlessly, NICE, NICE!!!
Anyone that decides to upgrade the final drive unit w/ the added bearing will need to open the oil passage between the final drive unit & the forward/ reverse gear box to 1/2" diameter so the gear oil can flow back & forth between the to units... If this isn't done the gear oil gets sucked into the final unit from the forward/ reverse gear box causing the final unit to become over full & then spitting the gear oil out the vent... Enlarging the passage to 1/2" will fix this...
David Sr.
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Post by rapidjim on Dec 21, 2010 11:36:31 GMT -5
Great tip!
Jim
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Post by ibtrikin on Jul 31, 2011 11:45:17 GMT -5
A Dawg's It 23 deg. & lots of snow, but today the roads were clear & dry... The BEAR had another great 50 mile run today... The upgraded Final Drive is working flawlessly, NICE, NICE!!! Anyone that decides to upgrade the final drive unit w/ the added bearing will need to open the oil passage between the final drive unit & the forward/ reverse gear box to 1/2" diameter so the gear oil can flow back & forth between the to units... If this isn't done the gear oil gets sucked into the final unit from the forward/ reverse gear box causing the final unit to become over full & then spitting the gear oil out the vent... Enlarging the passage to 1/2" will fix this... David Sr. If I wanted to add the radial bearing to my final drive, but my trike doesn't have reverse, would I need to do anything besides put it in? Also, would this bearing be a good choice? www.amazon.com/6004-Nachi-Bearing-20x42x12-Japan/dp/B0045DWKK6 |
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Post by ibtrikin on Aug 4, 2011 11:23:20 GMT -5
I'm thinking I might need to replace all 3 bearings. The whining noise is getting annoying. Anyone know of a list for sizes I would need?
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Post by harleyann1 on Aug 5, 2011 8:44:59 GMT -5
Jim, I notice you have the 250cc Snow Leopard, which is the twin of the Road Warrior without all the glitter and the forks. Do you have access to any service manuals. I do soooooo wish I'd known about you 2 months ago..:// My trike came with a box, with a hole in the bottom and a tiny "Operators Manual" which is VERY hard to understand and many photos are incorrect for the item. My dealer is "supposedly" trying to get a manual for me but after a week I've heard vertually nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I would dearly love to complete the PDI myself so I can learn about this bike. I have had Harleys and now ride a Honda Shadow Ace Deluxe which I dearly love but age forces more stability, I'm afraid.
Thank you all for such a wonderful forum...!!
Harleyann1
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Post by rapidjim on Aug 6, 2011 8:03:31 GMT -5
Jim, I notice you have the 250cc Snow Leopard, which is the twin of the Road Warrior without all the glitter and the forks. Do you have access to any service manuals. I do soooooo wish I'd known about you 2 months ago..:// My trike came with a box, with a hole in the bottom and a tiny "Operators Manual" which is VERY hard to understand and many photos are incorrect for the item. My dealer is "supposedly" trying to get a manual for me but after a week I've heard vertually nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I would dearly love to complete the PDI myself so I can learn about this bike. I have had Harleys and now ride a Honda Shadow Ace Deluxe which I dearly love but age forces more stability, I'm afraid. Thank you all for such a wonderful forum...!! Harleyann1 Sorry to say no I don't have any service manuals for that trike. Here is a link to a very good scooter PDI. www.x1scooters.com/pdi.html I realize it is for a scooter but will give you some great pointers on what you are supposed to do. Anything else just ask. Jim |
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Post by ibtrikin on Aug 6, 2011 8:10:53 GMT -5
I'm finding a lot of differing information on the interwebs about what size bearings are in the final drive of these CVTs. Wildman has shown that a #6004 works for the shaft, but I want to change the other 2 bearings also. Some sites suggest a 6203 and 6202, while other sites suggest a 6003 and 6002. Is there a difference and are either of these correct? Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I'm totally confused. |
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. I live in Suburb of Chicago (Westmont-60559). So I think its about a 4 hour Drive to where you are at in WI. 
