Sym Citycom 300i Review + Maintenance

[skritikos]

I have the same thermometer on my scoot; in pretty warm spring Athens weather it runs on the second long mark or just a fraction above. The radiator capacity on this bike seems huge, it should be great for our hot summer (40C + in many cases).

Greg, that's a nice bike you got there, greetings from Greece!

[Kiwiscoot]

Apr 18, 2010 2:18:03 GMT -5 nzscootrider said:

Here's a pic of the temperature gauge. Where is the ideal operating temp? Currently the needle hits the second mark up from bottom.
Cheers, Greg.

I guess by second mark you mean the second long mark. My gauge looks just like yours. Mine runs just like Kritikos' one when at temperature.
;D Haven't seen those low km's on a Citycom for ages!! have fun. Nice sunny chilly 6 degC Canterbury morning here for scooting.

Yes Kritikos - I think this scoot is over-engineered in the radiator/cooling department. It should have no problems with your Athen's traffic neither the 40C summers. Enjoy your summer riding.

[Kiwiscoot]

Apr 18, 2010 4:25:09 GMT -5 flyangler said:

Nzscooter,your ideal operating temp will be specific to your scooter as these gauges will not read uniformly from one bike to another, however what you are describing is right where mine is running. I just picked mine up on fri. afternoon and only have 40 mi. on it so far, I was hoping to get the initial 200 mi. on in the first week but the weather here in New England is cold and rainy with a chance of snow. Oh well , it will give me an opportunity to pull my seat and shave about three inches off the seat height. Dan.

Congratulations and keep us in the know how you shaved your seat please. Hope your weather gives you some riding opportunities as I would chafe at the bit with a new scooter I could not ride.

[nzscootrider]

Thanks for the compliments about the Citycom's appearance. It seems that we all have the same gauge and that it runs at about the second bigger mark, which is not even half way. I wonder if I should cover the radiator a bit more. I'm a gauge freak and always check my gauges so no chance of overheating. With all these Citycom riders from different countries, wouldn't it be amazing to meet sometime. Imagine a scooter rally through NZ, or Greece and its islands, or the USA and Australia. I actually own a couple of Honda 110 cc scooters in Phuket, Thailand (how I own them is a long story) and for a few years have enjoyed holidays there. I plan to to do a decent tour there with one of my Hondas later this year. I don't think SYM has a Thai agent, but if it did I could add to the fleet!

[nzscootrider]

Here are some pics of the new scooter at Mount Maunganui beach, in Tauranga, New Zealand. It's going well. Some strong winds while riding have made me a bit nervous sometimes, but I'm getting used to it again. It had been 25 years since I rode a motorbike seriously. Just a matter of getting back in the saddle.

Attachments:

[nzscootrider]

Here's another pic. Can anyone tell me how to upload more than one pic at a time?

Attachments:

[Kiwiscoot]

open an account at www.photobucket.com. Then you can upload more than one photo and you just insert the image code from photobucket directly into your post. Looks good.
Your top-box rack looks totally different to mine. I have the Givi rack. Which brand is yours.

[nzscootrider]

I got the dealer to order me the top box rack with the bike, so it came through the main SYM agent, which I think is Triumph. So not sure of the brand. have yet to decide on the top box for it.

[nzscootrider]

Just got hold of a topbox. Cnell brand from trademe which cost about $32 plus courier. Looks quite ok considering it was a cheapie. Citycom continues to perform well and seems very economical.

[skritikos]

the oil leak problem was one "loose" bolt that additionally needed a bit of sealing agent to stop leaking. It is located on the upper left part of the crankcase. This is now OK.

It seems that I am out of luck with my Citycom though as I now have "EFI check" light on after running the scoot for some minutes on every ride Lambda sensor? I dont know, the mechanic is not worried though as it appears after a while and not at the point the ECU runs check procedures during the startup.

[Kiwiscoot]

Glad to hear you oil leak is solved. Strange tho (wonder if they did the Pre-delivery Inspection properly) as mine has no leaks and the engine is as dry as the day it left the factory.
The EFI light on is not good. In Chapter 4-41 is the procedure to read out the code. Sounds like the mechanic desturbed some wiring. Why was the mechanic not worried??! I would not trust a mechanic like that. What if the scoot runs to lean and burns valves?? I would read out the fault code if I was you. Sometimes good to be informed when dealing with mechanics as there are good and bad ones, lots of times in my experience the friendliest ones are the worst as they don't care. I'd rather take a grumpy good mechanic than a friendly bad one. Mine has run with no faults or leaks, showing that these scoots can do it.
I do have a small issue with mine at the moment. One of the stays for the inner back mudguard broke. Looks like metal fatigue. I went thro a pot-hole with my wife on the back a week ago, maybe that weakened it, causing it to break over the next days.
Hope you get the EFI issue solved and happy scooting to you

[skritikos]

I am already fed up with the local SYM mechanics. It seems impossible to find someone that really knows the bike and is not bored to work! This is bad because I bought the scoot to decrease my KTM expenses and not to face problems every week or so. This is bad for me and SYM's reputation.

The Service manual uses really funny English language because of a bad translation I guess! I will probably try to short-circuit this test plug to see what happens before visiting another mechanic.
Paul, are those test and diagnosis plugs somewhere under the handlebars? Have you ever seen those plugs?

My mechanic says that they are somewhere on the back right side of the scoot, but the Service manual says somewhere around the headset!

[Kiwiscoot]

Sorry to hear about your experience with the mechanics and the scoot. I think they were to bored to do a thorough PDI before you got it.
Now and this is going by memory ( to lazy to go out to the garage as it's dark & cold 6 degC outside) there is a little panel in the left side of the front glove-box. I seem to remember that the plugs is behind there near the fuses.
If you have problems with the "Tailish" ( Taiwan English) then I may be able to help. English is my second language too, so with my Germanic/Scottish heritage & your Greek we should crack the "Taiwanese code" , tho your English is perfect.
As I'm an electronic engineer I do understand their description of the fault-codes, etc.

[skritikos]

OK, I did the short-circuit thing on the test coupler. The error I get is "13" (1 long, 3 short blinks), Air Intake Temperature sensor, check sensor and cable according to the manual.

This sensor is in the airbox, I think I have to have a look there before visiting the mechanic. There is even a way to clear the errors from the ECU without the SYM Diagnostic tool ;D ;D

Have you ever seen this sensor Paul? Do I have to remove the side panel too, or just the airbox cover?

For once more, thanks for your help! The language used in the manual is very funny, i almost don't get the point in many paragraphs

[skritikos]

How nice! I just found the sensor on the second page of this thread (2nd photo from top). It is just near the tube that transfers clean air from the airbox to the engine! A small gray thingy with a cable!

I already know what happened.... they removed the luggage box and when replaced it they clamped the sensor cable somehow.... If the cable is still in one piece I can fix it myself. If not

[Kiwiscoot]

those sound like useless mechanics. Man I would give them an earfull!

[skritikos]

May 4, 2010 5:23:31 GMT -5 Kiwiscoot said:

those sound like useless mechanics. Man I would give them an earfull!

It's even worse than that.... the guy streched the cable of the Air Temp sensor but it seems OK. I unplugged and rerouted to protect it from the luggage box.

The real problem is on a thin green cable on the front side of the battery. This cable is connected on battery's negative and it got clamped between the frame and the luggage box. So bad that the green cover ripped and it was on direct contact with the metal frame. I insulated this cable, put some zip-ties to hold the cables better and carefully installed the luggage box. After cleaning the error from the ECU (shorting the test plug ) it seems OK from the 40km I just did.

I am a happy SYMer again

It's funny that on my extra pushed KTM I have zero problems for 30000km (2 years) and on my utility bike I visited mechanics more than 10 times during the first 2 months But I don't have the energy to argue with stupid mechanics anymore.....

[Gary]

Skritokos - hope you have many happy miles now.
Gary - SYM RV-250

[Kiwiscoot]

What useless mechanics, I think they are wrecking your good scoot. I would say just do the maintenance yourself, because they are doing more harm than good.
That green wire is luckily an earth wire, but it would not be good shorting to the chassis like that. Could mean the high current drawn by the starter could find that thin wire as a shorter path to the battery and fry it.
These are good scoots and with a propper PDI they just go and go. In 18000kms I've only had an indicator unit go (less than 1000kms), horn needed adjustment(<1000kms), wire to speedo sensor brake (>10 000kms as wire harness was to tight) and now a stay of the back inner mudguard broke (@18000kms and I went thru a pothole with my wife on the back), so I'm more than happy with the scoot. Looks like new still and used every day in all weather, but I'll give the muffler a coat of paint as it looks like the paint is very thin on top.

[hammy]

Hey Kiwi, thanks for inviting me here.

My Citycom was working fine up until the very last day of my 4800 mile ride. After 8.5 days of hard riding, I finally ran into traffic, and she lost power. Basically overheated. That was at the first week of March.

Since then, my bike has been back and forth from the dealer and every single sensor has been replaced. She's still under warranty as I only bought her last July. She's now at 15400 miles, but it's been extremely aggravating because we cannot seem to get this overheating issue resolved. She works great when I ride her in cool weather (i.e. below 60 degrees F) or if I'm going fast. If I'm in stop n go traffic, eventually I lose power.

My friend and I did the following test. We put my bike up on the centerstand and just let her idle. After a while, the thermostat basically stabilized around 2.5. Then after a few minutes, the fan would come on for about 10 seconds, but then the thermostat would suddenly jump up to about 4.5 for about 5 seconds, then usually it would drop back down to 2.6, and the fan would cut off 5 seconds later.

My bike would do this reliably for quite a few cycles. Then a few times, instead of the needle coming back down to 2.6, it would jump up to just right below redline. If I even rev the throttle at this point, the bike stalls out and she won't run for a while until the engine cools down to 2.6.

At one point, the thermostat actually redlined, the fan cut out and it took almost 7 minutes before the bike was able to cool down.

I dunno what else to do here...

[Kiwiscoot]

Three things come to mind.
1.) stuck thermostat. Get them to take it out and see if problem persist. If that fixes it, get them to put a new one in. Look on page two of this review to see a photo of where the thermostat is. Make sure they bleed the system of air properly.
2.) did they give the cooling system a good flush out and then a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze/water.
3.) faulty radiator cap. If it can't keep the pressure the scoot will boil. Perhaps the EFI cuts power to the motor when it sees high engine temperatures.
Do you have the service manual?? I share it here
www.4shared.com/account/dir/15412986/3c778837/sharing.html
There are only two sensors in the cooling system. One for the EFI and one for the temperature gauge. None of them can cause the overheat.
Only two things control the engine temperature: the thermostat controlls the water flow and the thermo switch controls the fan switch on and engine temperature. In the manual is a well described way of testing the thermo switch. Chapter 17 Page 21.
Could be the fan not always going. Sticking, a burnt fan motor winding or bad connection?? Pull the fuse for the fan and re-insert it. That should fix a bad connection there.
I would check the cap, thermo switch and thermostat first before starting to dig deeper.
Hope this helps.

[Gary]

Hey Hammy - welcome to the forum. I have a SYM RV-250 and love the scoot.

Have you checked to see if coolant is actually flowing? Maybe the water pump went south? Or as Kiwi said, maybe the thermostat is stuck.

Good luck!
Gary

[ootscoot]

Great to hear all the good words on the Citycom! - and the great problem solving. Seems like the biggest problem has been lack of skilled mechanics. For me it was lack of parts.
After crashing the front end last January, I waited 3+ months for a new fender, and under-spoiler. Finally sold the bike to a friend with the promise to fix it when the parts come in.
I ordered a new Citycom - wanted the new version with the extended footroom and stronger, fold-back mirrors - Carter Bros sent me the older version, so I just put it in the showroom - when it sells, I'll try again...meanwhile, I am gaining strenghth in my broken wrist - riding the HD 200 Evo everyday...I will be back on a citycom soon! I had 4000 mi. on it and the new owner has added a few more k mi. - no issues, just smiles.

[Kiwiscoot]

Hammy another basic thing especially with your scoots mileage: Is the " fins" of your radiator clean? When you look at the radiator from the front of the scoot, is it clean? Could be that it is clogged with muck and not letting the air thru. That is one thing I wash out good with a hose everytime I wash the scoot.
Let us know what you find. We want to get you to smile your miles again!!
kiwiscoot

[hammy]

The fins ARE dirty -- the only time Tasha gets washed is when it rains, hahaha... I have to check to see if how the air is bled is the same as how my dealer's service manual said to do it.

[hammy]

I am trying to understand the bleed procedure on the bottom of 12-4. At the bottom of 12-4, it says to open radiator cap and start engine when cool and press water hose softly by hand and somehow induce bleeding of air, and then throttle repeatedly until the "coolant surface becomes stable." What does that actually mean, in English?

[hammy]

By the way, I had ZERO problems with my Tasha until the end of my big trip. She was supposed to be accompanying me all throughout at least 25 different states this year on my Iron Butt Association National Parks Tour. I really hope I can get this issue fixed because it has really ruined my confidence... I'm really glad to have you folks on here as I really am a nitwit when it comes to mechanics, electrics, etc. All I know how to do is get on and RIDE, and I have not been able to do that for the last 2 months

[Kiwiscoot]

May 11, 2010 23:24:47 GMT -5 hammy said:

I am trying to understand the bleed procedure on the bottom of 12-4. At the bottom of 12-4, it says to open radiator cap and start engine when cool and press water hose softly by hand and somehow induce bleeding of air, and then throttle repeatedly until the "coolant surface becomes stable." What does that actually mean, in English?

Hammy first things first -
1.) have you washed out the radiator fins?. No use us delving deeper if that is still full of road-dirt. Use a hose and squirt the water in there with as much pressure as possible to dislodge the dirt, don't use a brush as the fins are quite fragile and bend easily. Run the scoot and see if it still does the same thing.
2.) Does the radiator have enough water in. Open the glove box and on the inside right hand side you'll notice the white window for checking it. On mine I can't see anything thru it, so I take the little hatch on top above it off and undo the radiator cap to look down inside. To check undo the screw on the right hand side of the scoot front under the handle bars, you'll notice the little hatch there.

Now if it still does overheat , then we need to delve deeper. Do this with the scoot cold (warning only with the scoot cold as you can burn yourself with hot coolant from the engine ):

Look at the bottom of page 12-5. Now to see that you need to take the seat and seat-bucket out. Take the 6 10mm bolts out holding the bucket in, lift the bucket out, just be aware that there is a switch on the left middle bottom of the bucket. Under the bucket is a wire that comes from that switch, undo the connector (press the little finger on the side of the connector in and then pull two part apart). Now when you look down you'll see what is in the picture on page 12-5. This is the little pipe you will undo to bleed the air out and you can see the little hose clamp at the point of the arrow.

You may need to undo the battery bracket and move it a bit to see the little pipe. It has a little clamp that you can press with a pair of pliers and move along the little pipe. Now to get rid of air we will undo that little pipe (as it is the highest point in the engine cooling system for air to collect in) until coolant run out. Don't take it off just yet as I'll explain the method. First open the radiator hatch and take the radiator cap off. Warning scoot has to be cold!!
Method:
The idea is to run the scoot but not get the engine hot.
1.) Now start the scoot and let run for 20seconds, rev it once or twice not to high tho.
2.) Switch off, remove that little pipe and let the air out until coolant runs out.
3.) Refit little pipe, check coolant level in radiator.
4.) Repeat that a few times until only coolant comes out. 3 times should be OK.
Now fit the little clamp back on its place on the little pipe. Fit everything you took off back where they should go.
Now run it and see. Hopefully your away laughing as we would say in New Zealand (meaning your happy again)

[hammy]

I think that's what my dealer did. I'll try it again myself though tonight after work. What I know is that he swapped out the sensors and thermostats and checked the water pump. SYM had previously told him to change my head gasket or to check if I had a cracked head, which he checked and found no problems there either. He also checked my spark plug and swapped it out but also did not think it was the problem. My other friend is convinced it's purely electrical or a computer problem.

Anyways, tonight I will wash out the radiator fins. Also, as far as coolant, what do I put in it? Will regular 50-50 car antifreeze work or do I have to get a special motorcycle coolant? Could there ever be a problem if I have too much coolant? I also can't really see the level through the side so I would just fill it until I can see it from the opening in the top.

[Kiwiscoot]

Just to clarify, from what I gather you call the temperature gauge a "thermostat". The thermostat is actually a device that regulates the water-flow in the engine. Look on page 12-12(service manual) bottom to see what it looks like.
50-50 car antifreeze is perfect. Just make sure it states that it is for alloy engines, tho all good brands like Mobil, Shell, etc. will be compatable with your scoot. I used a long life one when I drained out the factory stuff. I could not find ready mixed, so I mixed my own 50-50 using consentrated antifreeze and deminealised water (aka as used to top up car batteries). Straight water as a coolant give you the best cooling, but that causes corrosion. Use 50-50 that's the best mix.

One thing too, what is the state of your battery? Could be just that your battery is faulty/flat and when the extra cooling fan current drain comes on in traffic the battery can't cope, the voltage drops and the computer goes into a "limping home" mode. Take your scoot to a automotive battery shop/auto-electrician and get him to check the battery. Easy if you remove the cover in the seat bucket before you take it as they have a tester they clamp onto the battery and do the test on the spot.

I do take note of your friend's comment about an electrical/computer problems, however we need to start with the basics first. Then get on to that.
1.) air thru the radiator OK
a) radiator clean
b) cooling fan operational
2.) coolant in radiator
a) all air out of system
b) enough coolant in system
c) circulation -
i) water pump working, here we trust the mechanic checked it out right & we assume it's OK as you can ride the scoot on the open road with no problems.
ii) thermostat opening - Now this we don't know, but for now we assume it's operating as it should. Very easy to take out and check but we'll get to that later if needs be.
iii) restricted flow due to dirt/corrosion in cooling system - we assume for the moment that it's OK in that department too. We'll get to that later if you need to check the thermostat.

While we're checking this do take note of the wires of the two sensors right at the little pipe and make sure they are not squashed or gently pull on the plugs to make sure they are plugged in properly.

Let us know what you find.
Kiwiscoot