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Post by ltdhpp on May 12, 2012 9:27:10 GMT -5
Still no top speed check, but it does seem to slow down a little once I near 50... I don't care. Might try sliders next time I'm in there... It also seems to engine brake less now, which I like, it did it pretty hard before. I want to try to fine tune it for that sweet spot but you have to take apart my scooter THIS MUCH to get the CVT cover off. So it will be a long in-between process lol  |
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Post by bwader on May 21, 2012 10:17:22 GMT -5
So I just got a 1/2 inch electric corded impact wrench from Harbor Freight Tools for $57
FYI : the 18 volt cordless 1/4" impact wrench wasn't powerful enough to get my variator off.
I am puzzled that the stock rollers weigh 10.8 grams. My max RPM's for a top speed test is 6000 no more than 6250 closer to 6000 at 47.2 MPH GPS. I was expecting heavier rollers in there!
I put in a performance variator, it fits well, it couldn't be any larger to fit and be practical. I think it was a 114mm. I weighed it, it is lighter than the stock variator. I didn't write it down but its at least 20 grams lighter than before.
Another FYI is don't be a dummy like I was and try using a crescent wrench in between the variator fan blades and a car tire iron. About half the fan part broke with the nut still snug.
I wished I just put some more miles on the scooter that day. But my curiousity was just itching to know the roller weight. I only see a max of 6,500 RPM's with more throttle at lower speeds. I'm puzzled into thinking, I would need 10gram or 9 gram rollers for higher RPM's. But it would make better sense if they were heavier rollers.
Currently at 93 miles.
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Post by bwader on May 23, 2012 17:30:00 GMT -5
I spent some time and wrote down weights of variator parts along with their rollers. This kit www.ebay.com/itm/110868117415?_trksid=p5197.c0.m61913 gram roller weighed 12.8 grams Variator main weighed 250.8 grams Variator roller cover weighed 145.1 grams bearing cylinder part weighed 109.4 grams Total = 580.8 grams This one I have on now, 3,500 Rpm's to move but going up to 25mph the max is 5,000. Around 4000 rpm's cruising in between 10-20mph for the most part. Stock rollers 10.8 grams Variator main weighed 271 grams Roller cover weighed 139.5 grams bearing cylinder weighed 109.4 grams Total = 585.6 grams Racing Variator Set www.partsforscooters.com/GY6_4-stroke-Racing-Variator-Set?sc=11&category=74091Rollers weighed 12.1 grams Variator main weighed 238.8 grams roller cover weighed 128.7 grams bearing cylinder weighed 108.3 grams Total 547.5 grams The drive plate I didn't think to weigh but its stock. I had it on with the 10.8 gram rollers and RPM's were way too high 4,000 to move at a stop. I only tested with the cover off. RPM's just seemed too high to me to be reasonable. At 106 miles so 25mph is as fast as I go right now  |
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Post by bwader on May 27, 2012 19:07:58 GMT -5
Had stock variator with 11.8 gram rollers, it was noticeably slower acceleration but cruising 25 even 30mph RPM's stay around 4500 to 5,000 rpm's. So I ran at a little higher speeds due to the lower rpms.
Put on the Racing variator today the variator and 10.8 gram rollers with the bearing weighed 540 grams. Result = WAY TOO HIGH RPM's. I was going 25 mph and RPM's were 6,000 to 6500 RPM's!
So, I weighed my stock set up with the original rollers 10.8 grams. It was 589 grams total. So I kept the Racing variator, put on the heavier variator star cover with 12.8 gram rollers.
TOTAL = 560 grams
Result = better acceleration than original set up. Also was going at around 4,500 to 5000 rpm's going 35mph. For my break in I'm concerned with RPM's and not exactly speed.
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Post by greywolf187 on Jun 6, 2012 10:23:58 GMT -5
so after reading this from start to finsh, I'm still stuck on page one about how to set up the sliders and rollers mix/weight.
sliders = heavy should use about 14g
roller = light use 12g
or did i get this backwards.
I have a 2008 Lance Duke 150cc
I weight about 185
the stock rollers 13g weak take off/ top end seem better
new rollers 12g much better take off/ top end seemed to drop, BUT I did not test on the same street.
I would like to get the best mix on the sliders/rollers.
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Post by frige on Jun 14, 2012 18:18:46 GMT -5
I just weighed mine on a postal scale. 17 grams So I am going to try some 13 gram sliders and see what happens.
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Post by bwader on Jun 16, 2012 10:53:22 GMT -5
I hit a real 57mph on my chinometer it says more 63. With 16 gram rollers and Racing Variator.
I have been testing out different weight combos first just writing them out then trying it.
Yesterday I went from Racing Variator+stock variator star piece+ 3 X 12.1 gram and 3 X 12.6 gram rollers. Flat ground 52mph downslope 56mph.
With "Lightest setup" with 16 gram rollers weighed a
total of 570 grams.
At 6,200 RPM's at Full throttle I need 15 gram or 14.5 grams to get closer to 7,500.
16's weigh 96 grams so 15's weigh 90g and 14.5's would weigh 87 grams total
I have 9g's, 10.6's, 12.1's, 12.6's and 16's. So a close combo with what I have is 16'sX4 and 12.6's X 2 for 89.2 grams total
That is if Four 16's and Two 12.6's or 12.0 gram ones will work.
I haven't heard of anyone trying of anything other than 3 X 3 in there.
Even more confusing is Using Racing Variator+stock star and 16's and 9's for a total weight of 562 grams. With 16's it weighed 570grams for 55mph @ 6,250 Rpm's. With either of these combo's I haven't seen any higher Rpm's than 6,500. So I got options.
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Post by ltdhpp on Jun 18, 2012 21:25:33 GMT -5
I just installed 8g sliders and am very pleased. I am accelerating in the high 6k low 7k range (both uphill and flat) and cruising in the 4k range. Still a bit sluggish from 50mph on, but I rarely go that fast.
I want to say I got back to 62mph on the chino-meter on a mild downhill from these sliders, the only other thing different was that I was riding (the rest of the way) home with no air filter, just an intake tube. This was the result of a fiasco with a fancy intake/filter system I bought that my 150 didn't like at all, and is a whole other story. Before that I had a might-as-well-be-nothing foam pod filter. 62 was about the top speed when I got it, it dropped maybe to 57 after the 10g rollers that were part of the NCY kit I installed.
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Post by roketafan08 on Jun 30, 2012 12:45:00 GMT -5
08 Lance GSR 50 Rider 150lbs kinda slow on takeoff removed 2 rollers - good takeoff slight over rev no loss of top end you just removed two rollers??? interesting concept.... yes ive removed 2 rollers from the get go and got good results works well on the cheep |
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Post by bwader on Jul 9, 2012 14:49:56 GMT -5
I have all Hoca 16's now and heavier stock variator half. Weighed about 585 grams total.
Max rpms are 6,660 and a max of 55mph.
25mph is around 4,000s
35 is about 5,200
Its a little more sluggish takeoff but I'm going for lower overall rpms, Mileage and lower rpms = easier on the engine and keep able to go 50mph.
Going to try this for a week maybe to see what mileage I get from the lower rpms.
Also after next fuel up I'm taking the trunk off. I only use it to store my helmet, so its just extra weight and drag to me.
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Post by poorr4driver on Aug 17, 2012 20:50:44 GMT -5
So I just swapped in some 11g sliders on a "racing" variator (don't know the brand, came with the donor scoot) with a 1,500 rpm torque spring and 1,500 rpm clutch springs. Now it rev's WAY to high...over 9g's. So tomorrow I'm going to try putting the stock torque spring back in.
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Post by blacktopbob on Aug 19, 2012 12:22:57 GMT -5
I have a stock qmj157 It came with 12 gram rollers and I replaced them at 1,800 miles with 12 gram sliders.My rpm's dropped 10% (from 8,000 wide open throttle down to 7,000) and the top speed stayed the same(49mph).So I guess next time they need replaced I'll add 10% to the sliders(13 grams instead of 12gram)and gain some speed and still be below the red line.I am getting better gas mileage with the 12 gram sliders.80 mpg minimum.
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Post by mself52 on Sept 14, 2012 14:21:01 GMT -5
I just put on a 115mm racing variator and 14g sliders and on flat ground can't get to my power band only getting around 6k rpm and about 52mph seems like I'm missing power
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Post by ltdhpp on Oct 7, 2012 12:37:44 GMT -5
I decided to try out some 10g sliders (coming from 8g sliders) and it displeases me.
I decided to do this after seeing pics of someones sliders absolutely eaten up after only a couple thousands miles! I had bought cheap ones, but they look just fine, I put a couple thousand on them too.
Also I went on a 55mph country road recently, first time since the new POS pipe and main jet. My rpms were WAY up, approaching 9k...
So I went to 10's, and my rps are down too far. It wont rev much past 6500 accelerating now, definitely not uphill, and I lost some uphill power too. It seems to do about the same on flats/rolling flats, but definitely 'feels' slower since my rpms are down. Even on that same 55mph road I hardly saw 7k.
Next time I'm going to mix them for 9g equivalent. Hopefully this will put it in its happy place!!!
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Post by ltdhpp on Oct 20, 2012 18:39:45 GMT -5
I just put in 3x10g and 3x8g sliders and I am happy. Accelerating rpms are back up, not quite as much as with all 8g but it feels like it accelerates the same. WOT is just past the point where that $99 POS muffler really starts to sing  I haven't been back on the 55mph road yet but as long as top speed results also split the difference I'll call it good. |
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Post by redridenhood on Oct 26, 2012 22:56:35 GMT -5
Run 13 grams for highway use less for city. scooters cruise aroun 7000 up to top rpm around 8500 with a cdi that has no rev limit for those down hill slopes.
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Post by greywolf187 on Oct 26, 2012 23:59:06 GMT -5
I'm liking my mix of 12g Sliders and 15g Rollers. my take off is fast and clean and I can still do 45 MPH going up hill near my house. due to that street being one of the main roads in town I need to be able to run 45 MPH or better or be run down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2012 16:22:56 GMT -5
All right, here's the skinny... I took my old rollers out and weighed all 6 of them on a scale that said 3 ounces. In terms of grams that's roughly 85 grams total over six rollers means 85 / 6 = 14 gram rollers. Now, what I found out is that despite all the reading I have done, I still had it backwards in my upstairs. HEAVIER rollers result in HIGHER RPM's during acceleration! LIGHTER rollers push out SOONER thus the RPM's during acceleration are LOWER! Once the belt reaches the outermost face of the variator, NEITHER roller increases top speed unless your rollers were SO heavy that the belt never got pushed out and your engine revved out instead. That having been said, 14 gram sliders for me resulted in a 5,500 rpm acceleration which is slightly higher than with the rollers, I like it because near the top end when I hit a hill it doesn't knock me down as far before I get back in the power curve. Other notes: It is VERY important to install sliders correctly!!! www.buggypartsnw.com/bpnw-info-center-introduction/23-dr-pulley-slider-weight-installation |
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Post by wutzthedeal on Dec 25, 2012 23:42:26 GMT -5
6g Dr. Pulley sliders... if I remember right, gave me about 4mph top-end and my acceleration a slight boost but only after getting a/f just right. I'm 250 lbs. I maybe should have gone heavier since top end is more important to me (yet I was reducing weight with these sliders, but, of course, changing technology... sliders v. rollers... so it doesn't really jive with the heavier/faster theory. I dunno).
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Post by stiv625 on Dec 26, 2012 3:30:03 GMT -5
6g Dr. Pulley sliders... if I remember right, gave me about 4mph top-end and my acceleration a slight boost but only after getting a/f just right. I'm 250 lbs. I maybe should have gone heavier since top end is more important to me (yet I was reducing weight with these sliders, but, of course, changing technology... sliders v. rollers... so it doesn't really jive with the heavier/faster theory. I dunno). Heavier weights only improve top-end if your variatior isn't getting pushed as far as it can go which I think is fairly uncommon unless the weights are REALLY light. I'm 210lbs and saw a significant boost throughout the speed range with 4g rollers over 5g sliders let alone the 8g rollers that came stock. With other aftermarket CVT tuning the properties of changing weights can change but I wouldn't agree on the general consensus that lighter weights precludes you from higher top speeds. Just check to be sure your belt is still traveling all the way up the variator. |
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