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Post by Don on Aug 9, 2008 8:11:35 GMT -5
i think it would be very good to get together information on roller weights and sliders in one place. like have everyone who has changed them out post what size they had stock....what side they went to....and then tell us what changed in performance.......this could be a great tool for those looking to adjust there set up for better acceleration and or top speed.....
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Post by earlwb on Aug 9, 2008 9:12:34 GMT -5
Well it varies a lot per situation. Besides different engines may have different performance results.
A 275 pound guy might like lighter weight rollers as it give him better acceleration, whereas a skinny 160 pound guy might like heavier rollers as it gives him more top end speed. Ad infintum.
The actually difference between roller and slider weights is really none. They both do the same thing. So if you ran 12g rollers and 12g sliders, you will really not see any difference in performance. If you did, something was wrong someplace.
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Post by Don on Aug 9, 2008 10:59:03 GMT -5
i understand that....but this is what i'm thinking....everyone would give this information....
scoot
rider weight
stock weights size
size replaced with
then a little description of the result
that would be very benefical for everyone......say you are looking to work on your scoot and change out your weights. since you already know what you wiegh you could check the list for a person about the same weight with the same or similar style scoot and see what they did.....it would give you a place to start and in some cases would let you know the exact size you would need to get the result you want.....
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Post by Don on Aug 9, 2008 11:00:10 GMT -5
oh and plus one bone for that great quote in your sig....
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Post by kitcarguy on Aug 9, 2008 11:59:13 GMT -5
To be honest I cant remember what stock size my sunL had. I did change to 11g rollers. At the same time I did a lot of other upgrades. Here is what I can tell you about my situation . Me 215 lbs 11g rollers Acceleration is through the roof. Take off is much MUCH better then stock. Problem (as with most people im sure) is at about 55 (indicated) it feels as though the motor is about to pop...lol . Plenty of throttle left, and will easily get to 65+ (indicated) but just dont feel right. Almost a bit dangerous. sort of like a car taching out in 1 gear  Thats about it. |
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Post by indy50 on Aug 9, 2008 13:24:25 GMT -5
Roketa MC75150T Stock rollers 14g---Replaced w 10g sliders My weight 170 Results: Off the line acceleration MUCH quicker Smoother through staging, Top speed 61 (gps)@8400rpm ;D
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Post by kitcarguy on Aug 9, 2008 13:50:48 GMT -5
I wish I had gps. I am willing to bet with me on my sunL I could get damn close to 70mph, and even closer to blowing it up Roketa MC75150T Stock rollers 14g---Replaced w 10g sliders My weight 170 Results: Off the line acceleration MUCH quicker Smoother through staging, Top speed 61 (gps)@8400rpm ;D |
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Post by indy50 on Aug 9, 2008 14:51:34 GMT -5
I wish I had gps. I am willing to bet with me on my sunL I could get damn close to 70mph, and even closer to blowing it up Roketa MC75150T Stock rollers 14g---Replaced w 10g sliders My weight 170 Results: Off the line acceleration MUCH quicker Smoother through staging, Top speed 61 (gps)@8400rpm ;D She's just gettin broke in. 550mi today. The only mods are the weights.........So far ;D |
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Post by earlwb on Aug 9, 2008 15:16:13 GMT -5
My 150 had stock 13g rollers and I put in 12g rollers. Mainly I observed that 12g rollers were always out of stock at all the stores, so it must be a very popular weight type.
I weigh 220 with 20 pounds of tools and spare parts included too.
My 250 is using the stock rollers, and I haven't pulled it apart to see how much they weigh yet.
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 9, 2008 18:45:04 GMT -5
scoot: 2007 Lance GS-R 150
Me: 200 +/-, +10-30 lbs of school stuff and tools.
Stock: 14g, decent acceleration.
Changed to: 11g great acceleration.
10g with racing variator, even better, just about as good as it gets.
14g with racing variator, good, better than stock, but 11g with stock variator was a bit better.
in order of best acceleration, from slowest to fastest: 14g, stock variator --> 14g, racing variator-->11g,stock variator-->10g racing variator (best).
My top speed was uneffected by any of these mods, with the exception of +1mph when I added the racing variator.
Aero
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Post by Don on Aug 9, 2008 20:09:45 GMT -5
this is what i was looking for....keep it coming guys....great info here.....
heres a bone for kitcar.......i will give one to the rest of you as i can.....
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Post by bgray on Aug 9, 2008 21:28:38 GMT -5
08 Lance GSR 50
Rider 150lbs
kinda slow on takeoff
removed 2 rollers - good takeoff slight over rev no loss of top end
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Post by Don on Aug 10, 2008 9:27:42 GMT -5
08 Lance GSR 50 Rider 150lbs kinda slow on takeoff removed 2 rollers - good takeoff slight over rev no loss of top end you just removed two rollers??? interesting concept.... |
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 10, 2008 17:50:27 GMT -5
well, as long as they are in opposing positions, it would still be ballanced, and 14g x 4 is the same as having rollers a bit over 9 grams, so he is probably getting revs around what mine gets. This reinforces my idea that 10g is ideal for the GS-R, though it is NOT proven yet or anything, just that mine runs great with 10g, his runs great, but slightly over-revs (as he stated), so I will keep track of people/GS-R's and see if this trend continues.
Aero
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Post by Don on Aug 10, 2008 22:58:17 GMT -5
from what i have seen 10 to 11g is the sweet spot...
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Post by motomech on Aug 11, 2008 16:08:14 GMT -5
I believe that sliders will out-last rollers.
All the worn drive pully rollers I've looked at(plenty)had flats worn into them.
So I figure, why not start off flat in the first place.
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Post by Don on Aug 11, 2008 17:16:31 GMT -5
I believe that sliders will out-last rollers. All the worn drive pully rollers I've looked at(plenty)had flats worn into them. So I figure, why not start off flat in the first place. makes sence...........i think i'm gonna pick up a set of DR pully sliders, 11g, and replace my stock ones with them to see how it goes.... |
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Post by r0b on Aug 11, 2008 20:26:42 GMT -5
I thought the lower the weight the faster the accelleration but also the lower the top speed.
Am I reading it right that some people are dropping the weights for faster accelleration but NOT losing any top end?
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Post by bgray on Aug 11, 2008 21:24:17 GMT -5
I thought the lower the weight the faster the accelleration but also the lower the top speed. Am I reading it right that some people are dropping the weights for faster accelleration but NOT losing any top end? alot depends on the stock set up, norm you will lose top end but these seem to hold on to it. I first learned about removing rollers from my 2, 07 Polaris Hawkeye 300 4x4 atvs. removing 2 rollers made SOOO much better it is worth losing 2 to 4 mph on them. and everything I have seen this doesnt hurt the atv and after 1 year mine still run great. Again I am very happy with the Lance now that i have removed 2 (and it didn't cost a thing  ) |
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Post by Don on Aug 11, 2008 23:20:58 GMT -5
so long as the variator will still go all the way into top gear you wont lose top end....but if you go too light.....8g or less....the stock RPM limit may not be enough to get you into high gear....
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 12, 2008 2:27:07 GMT -5
I would even say less than that. I have seen people run 8g rollers with out any top end loss. For these scooters, the acceleration-vs-top-speed thing is pretty much a myth. I would say that if you swap out 13g for 11g and loose 5mph top end, something is wrong like a rev limiter, or exhaust restriction preventing full revs or something.
On a theoretical level, this is also correct, in that there IS a threashold weight were the roller weights do not create enough force to fully close the variator while remaining in the engines safe zone, but for a 150cc scooter pulling 7-8,000 rpm, that would have to be REALLY light, I would guess somewhere in the 5g-6g area, though much lighter then 10g will give you worse acceleration, as you will be over you engines powerband.
Also, heavier weights WILL theoretically increase your top speed to a small extent. As I already said, there is still a LOT of force being created by 10g weight spinning at 7,000rpm, but if you run something like 12g or 14g, you will loose acceleration, but you will make SURE you have all of your top end. Heavier rollers will NOT increase the top speed by them selves, but they will make certain that you reach the upward threashold of your top speed, though lighter ones should get you there as well.
And in all practical reasoning, if heavier increased top speed, we would all be running 20g weights ;D
Aero
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Post by wcotyjr on Aug 12, 2008 10:59:13 GMT -5
2007 Baja SC150
I am 235lbs
I am running 3 8.5g and 3 14g Dr Pulley slider weights, in the Dr Pulley variator. I have the weights 8.5, then 14, then 8.5 and so on. This was done at the recommendation of the guys at MRP and I am pretty happy with it. Good take and good top end - but it will never be exactly perfect I don't think. I was running 10g sliders all the way around and they weren't bad either, but the mixture seems to work out and feels a little better than the all 10's. I also tried 3 10g sliders with 3 13g rollers and I didn't like the take off and hill pulling they offered. According to the guys at MRP, you want a mix of sliders/rollers that gets you close to 50 for racing and under 70 for a good balance of take off and top end. At $24 a set for the sliders, which I did notice a huge difference over the rollers in feel and smoothness, I will stick with what I have for now. Actually, I have 3 extra 8.5g, 14g, and 6 extra 10g sliders now!
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Post by Robvious on Aug 12, 2008 13:30:28 GMT -5
i mix weights as well. im 215 lbs, i have a stock variator and clutch.
my stock weight was 17g (102g). I went to 12g sliders (72g), recently I switched to a mix of 3 -12g's, and 3 - 17g's (87g).
stock weights is slooooooow to 50mph. top speed is 55mph. strong pull the whole way through.
12g's all the way around is QUICK to 40, then slow pull to 50, w/ top speed of 50.
mixed (87g's) is quick to 45, pulling harder than the 12g's, with a top speed of 52mph.
55mph if i do a full race-ninja tuck.
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Post by Don on Aug 13, 2008 23:45:36 GMT -5
great info here......keep it coming....
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 14, 2008 2:02:32 GMT -5
I'm gonna do some carb tuning and play with rollers a bit tomorrow. I'll post some results of the rollers. I'm gonna try the 4x14 thing that bgray has, that should put me effectively at 6x9.33g rollers, maybe I'll finally see my takeoff rpm break the 6,000 mark, I can't seem to get over 6,000rpm till the scooter is 50mph+, then it just takes off!
Aero
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Post by jetjock79 on Aug 14, 2008 9:43:59 GMT -5
I have the same thing happen to me Aero......Just put in a UNI filter, along with upjetting the carb, and then setting the mixture correctly. Still have the stock rollers, and eventhough I have much better performance (scoot doesn't seem as if it's choking for fuel all the way to the top),....I don't get above 6,000rpms until I hit just under 50.....then it just starts to increase rpms and takeoff from there! Let us know what you come up with because there is not much more I can do with the scoot that would make me happy. Just the upgrades I have on her alone make me pretty happy with her! Faster acceleration to 50 would be nice though......as is I can still pass some cars on the road.
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Post by Don on Aug 14, 2008 11:29:28 GMT -5
what rpm is the 150 in the meat of the power....
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Post by jetjock79 on Aug 14, 2008 12:57:23 GMT -5
around 4,500-6,000 is a good place, but it just won't rev beyond that until 50mph....then it will start going from there...haven't had her go much higher just because hs efeels good around 50, and I'm not 21 on a crotch rocket anymore. I guess I should really try to take her up and see what she can do, but she rides nice now....wouldn't mind getting better acceleration though.
Hey Don, shows you got the carbon fiber muffler on your scoot. Did you run with filter and jetting before putting it on, and then ride it after? How muh of a difference....if it's completey noticable...I'll splurge and go for one like yours....if not.....I'll just drill some holes.
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Post by jetjock79 on Aug 14, 2008 13:00:09 GMT -5
By the way Don....good job starting this thread,...been looking for something to better explain this whole issue for a while now........Here's a bone brother!!
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Post by Aerostudent on Aug 14, 2008 15:32:55 GMT -5
The peak horsepower for the GY6 150cc motor is normally stated between 6,500 and 8,000 RPM, for mine, it seems right about at 7,200, but allas, I can't seem to get there untill about 55mph, then the wind resistance is too much to see the true power, though when I get there, it does keep pulling nicely to 61 or 62 before it seems wound out.
Aero
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