roller/slider weights......post your results here

[r0b]

I just got my Dr Pulley variator and 11g sliders installed. I haven't been able to fully test it yet, but instantly I can tell the revs go MUCH higher. I'm not positive I like it yet.

No tach on my scoot, so I can't tell how high it is revving, but it sounds like the little scoot is now a F1 racecar it winds up so high.

I'll get the body panels back on and hit the road tomorrow to check out top speed and accelleration. The real test will be the hill by my house, I would always lose about 6mph going up the hill stock.

[kilted1]

I replaced my 13 g with 11g and I weigh in at 230lbs, results in much quicker take off and smoother thru the RPM's, My max speed with all the mods(Air,Exhaust, Carb, weights is 108km/h)

[mustang64]

My Vino125 was sluggish up hills. Otherwise performance was satisfactory. On the advice of "Motorsports Scooters" I replaced the 14gram weights with 12gram. They told me it was, in there opinion, the magic number for the vino125. It yielded me about 4-5 mph increase up long inclines, a bit faster take off and probably about the same top speed. It by no means turned the scoot into a beast. It still is a fairly well manored machine with just a bit more pull uphill. I still believe this scooter has a lot more power than it shows. I get the feeling that it is modestly tuned to be civilized. It's quick enough to get a guy into trouble, and that is quick enough for me.

[r0b]

Well I'm still not sure I like the higher revs, it seems like it is just running wide open in order to accellerate.

That being said, I did have to keep backing off the throttle to keep off a bumper, and was actually able to maintain speed up the big hill without losing 3-4mph as I did with the stockers.

Mr Pulley Variator + 11g Sliders, rider is 198lbs, 6'0.

I haven't done a top speed test yet with holding it for a long time to find the max, but it still seemed to top out at around 50-55mph running wide open. The problem is it was on 35mph streets so I didn't want to stretch it any further.

[lazipcode]

Anyone have tips and tricks on using an impact wrench on the variator nut of the CVT? I just received my new Dr. Pulley Variator Kit and 10g slider weights and I'm planning on making the switch this weekend. Here's what I'm curious about.

-Does anyone remember what size socket they had to use for the variator nut if you've worked on this area?

-Can you safely use an impact wrench to put the nut back ON? My wrench is 150lb torque and I'm afraid of doing damage. Should I use a hand torque wrench and, if so, what lb of torque is recommended?

-Also, for anyone who has installed the Dr. Pulley variator kit, did you use the 3 thin washers included in the kit? How did you know how many to use and why?

I appreciate any input on the subject. I plan on taking pictures of the process and will update once it's complete.

Thanks,
Heith

[mx5tc]

Heith,

I've got 11gr rollers to put in too, but I haven't pulled the variator yet so I can't help you on the size of the variator nut. However, here's a couple of tips that may prove useful to you:

1. Make sure you use a 6 point impact socket with the impact gun
2. To avoid overtigtening the variator nut with your impact you have a couple of options:

a. Use a torque stick rated at the appropriate figure for tightening the nut. These are the colored sticks you often see used in tire shops with air impact wrenches. Each stick is designed to flex under the blows of the impact wrench and stop "tightening" at its respective torque rating (e.g., 60, 75, 100, 150 Ft lbs). IMO, these are great for a single variator nut in the middle of a circular "pulley"; they are less than optimal for installing wheels on a car with a five lug pattern because they can warp brake rotors (I prefer to do my wheels in step fashion with a standard torque wrench)

b. "Turn down" the power of your 150 Ft lb impact. My air impact has 4 settings, I can get kinda/sorta close (with 10-15 ft lbs) by using the settings; I can get right on the money if I select a "close setting" and then fine tune by adjusting the air pressure regulator. This does require a "test rig" though to verify the settings the first time (e.g., 85psi of pressure on the line regulator plus setting 3 = 100 Ft lbs)

c. If you have an electric/rechargable impact, the instruction manual should provide details on how to regulate the torque.

Mitch

[jake318]

My nut was 17mm harbor frieght sells aan impact sokcet set for 10$

[d]

Hey all,
I put 13G Dr Pulley slider weights in the other day. I like it much more now.
I tried the 11G slider's last week and did not like the way it over revved in the mid range and lost some top end. it was like 53mph @ 8800 rpm.

Stock it had 17G rollers and a Bando belt and was good for 57mph @8200rpm

Now... 13G sliders, Gates power link belt. good for 63mph @ 8000rpm.

[lazipcode]

I was hoping to post exciting results after swapping out my stock roller weights with the Dr. Pulley sliders. Unfortunately, my results are not encouraging. I'm 6'1" , 170lbs riding a Lance Intercept 150cc GY6. (I'm assuming from other posts my stock weights are 14g).

I've seen posts of success using as low as 10g sliders so that's where I started my mod including a new Dr. Pulley variator kit. Everything was installed without a hitch but on my test run I wasn't able to break 25 miles an hour and the rpm's were peaking. I figured I did something wrong.

Long story short, I have now tried the following combinations with dissapointing top end speeds of 30 mph and minimal low end torque: all 10g sliders with new variator, all 10g sliders with old variator, all 12g sliders with new variator, three 10g sliders mixed with three 12g sliders, all 10g rollers with new variator.

The following combinations got me slightly better low end torque and didn't reduce my top end speed but still aren't a huge improvement over all stock 14g rollers: three 10g sliders mixed with three 14g rollers, three 12g sliders mixed with three 14g rollers, three 10g rollers mixed with three 14g rollers (current configuration).

I'm running out of things to try with the CVT weights and figure I've done all I can do without further mods.

Anyone else have a dissapointing experience and figured out a solution to get better results?

[harrywr2]

I've seen some people state they had stock rollers of 17g's. Which the manufacturer would most likely have matched with a heavier contra spring.

An MC-13-150 manufactured in May 2008 is not the same as a MC-13-150 manufactured in June 2008. (May had alarms...June had C.A.R.B. certification..don't know what else changed)

The fact that without three of your 'assumed 14g' stock rollers in the variator you are going no where fast would lead me to think that they maybe 17g.

Assuming stock 17g
6 x 17 = 102g
3 x 10 + 3 x 17 = 81g
6 x 10 = 60g

Various posts
6 x 14 = 84g
6 x 10 = 60g

[iamverb]

Frankenscoot may not be the best example for others, but I'll report anyway: The engine / CVT is from a Bandit RC-150. The only mod is a knock-off K&N air filter replacing the airbox.

The original rollers are 6 x 17g (102g). With 195lbs. of me + gear, it was quite sluggish up to about 10mph, peppy up to about 40, steady up to 50, and would crawl up to 55 on a flat straight.

I went too low with 11g sliders (66g) and was peppy to about 35, then sluggish to 40, and that was it. Definitely a heavier contra than you'd see with 14s.

I split half 11g sliders and half 17g rollers (84g, same as all 14g), and now it's peppy up to about 35, steady to 40, and will work it's way up to 50, but above that's out of the question.

I'm guessing 15 or 16 would be the sweet spot for me, but I'll have to wait for more tinkering budget to find out.

[Kaos]

Scoot: 2008 Chuanl Longbo LB150T-12
Rider Weight: 165 LBS+ 6-8 LBS tools.
Rollers: stock..no idea what weight they are.

Replaced 842-20-30 stock belt with a gates powerlink 835-20-30. Slight decrease in power with the 835 belt. Removed 2 weights and the power is back and slightly better than it was with the 842 belt and all weights especially in the midrange. No loss in top end speed.

[cntryboy1289]

I have the Roketa Cayman 150 that would reach 55mph on the flats with no wind and would easily do 52. I ordered the Dr. Pulley variator on advise from the forum and tried to order the 10 gr weights but they were out so I gave the 9 gr weights a try. I don't have a tach, but the scooter was screaming at me and would only do about 35 miles an hour.

I swapped 3 of the older weights in and it would only do about 45. I didn't like it at all so I swapped out the sliders and just ran it with my older rollers and it would only do 50. I guess I am going to have to get my rollers weighed and try to order the same weight sliders but so far the stock set up yields better overall performance.

All of this was after I changed to an Iridium plug, changed the coil to a race model as well as replaced the CDI to a race version that adjusts the timing as well as has no limiter. I like those mods and I checked it with just them and really like it before I put on the new variator and sliders that I put in. My belt looks to be in good shape but I will try to measure it with some calipers to see what it actually looks like tomorrow.

[therustyaxe]

Just replaced rollers again today.

Before, my stock rollers were 18, I replaced three with 10's (10/18). That worked great! I could push almost to 70MPH on a flat.

Today I replaced all with 13g rollers. I also replaced all springs including the torque spring with 2K red springs.

I can now take any car off the line but at 50 MPH I am hitting 6K RPM's,
at 60 MPH, I am pushing almost 8K.

Is it safe to ride at 7900 rpms or will the motor blow?

I also cannot get above 60 MPH now.

[harrywr2]

Max torque on most 150's is about 6500RPM, max HP is about 8,000 RPM. Anything over 8K you are loosing power.

[JR]

Hey Harry. My wife's Bali 150 was built in July 2008 and has no alarm and is CARB just like you said. Do you know what stock weight rollers this model has in it presently? I would like to get my wife's 150 Bali to pull the hils better and not lose as much of her top in speed when we are riding in the hills. Help her keep up Ha! What would you recommend for a good weigh to help this problem? Figure the weight at a maximum of 165 lbs.JR

[harrywr2]

Nov 20, 2008 22:41:40 GMT -5 JR said:

Hey Harry. My wife's Bali 150 was built in July 2008 and has no alarm and is CARB just like you said. Do you know what stock weight rollers this model has in it presently? I would like to get my wife's 150 Bali to pull the hils better and not lose as much of her top in speed when we are riding in the hills. Help her keep up Ha! What would you recommend for a good weigh to help this problem? Figure the weight at a maximum of 165 lbs.JR

Jack,
I haven't messed with the weights on the Bali. It seemed to me the engineers got the weights pretty close to right for my riding situation.

At 190 lbs GPS verified I can do 38 MPH on an 11% grade and 40MPH on a 10% grade completely stock. Above 11% the bike definitely is lugging.(Above 11% they don't post the grade...just a sign that say trucks 'strictly prohibited'.) The bike does lug a bit on grades above 11% so if that was going to be a really common situation I would probably drop down 1/2 a gram to 1 gram on weights.


The engineers are going to use a rider weight pretty close to 170 as 'average'. I doubt they would use a 10 or 11% grade as 'normal' .

I did try an 835 belt, which added a couple of MPH to top end on flat and level but cost me a couple of MPH on the 11% grade. So I put the 842 back on.

[JR]

As always Thanks Harry

[Doug in San Diego]

Hello all

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I replaced my 17g rollers with 11g sliders.

Acceleration was better and a slight improvement on hills (44 mph tops on hills) - Top end was about the same

I chased the dragon, and tried a 1500 rpm contra spring. STUNK!
It was lousy all around.

I even tried the 17g rollers back witht the heavier spring. Still Yuck.

Long story - I am back to the 11g sliders, I put the old contra back on, and now my clutch makes a weird rattling sound as it slows down.


Just be careful with all this tweaking, I think 11g to 13g is the sweet spot and Im not sure if I will ever be able to hit 50Mph up a hill.

[scootpup]

Dr PULLEY kit 9-12. I am 165 lbs and need a little more speed fo hills.What # is best for me?

[scootpup]

If I change I would go for #12.Unless passing speed is more important then top speed,why change.

[harrywr2]

Dec 20, 2008 13:52:27 GMT -5 scootpup said:

If I change I would go for #12.Unless passing speed is more important then top speed,why change.

Weigh your weights first. Some bikes have the heavier contra spring and come stock with heavier weights. Others have a lighter contra spring and come stock with light weights.

[ireland2004]

First mod & result: Yesterday I replaced the stock roller weights on my 2006 Yamaha Vino Classic (50cc liquid cooled engine) with 4.5 gram Dr.Pulley sliding weights. Stock weight was 5 gram I believe, and the size is 15x12. I noticed a slight improvement in the low end, a more substantial mid-range, and a extra 3-4 mph on top end, with better hill climbing performance, and smoother action overall from the otherwise stock CVT.

In my opinion, and backed by my experience, the Dr. Pulley sliding weights are a needed modification to any scoot. I recommend using a slightly lighter weight version than your stock rollers.

My scoot:

Stock with 15x12 5 gram OEM rollers: peppy to 10-15 mph, decent midrange for a 50cc 4-stroke, pretty flat on top, but still reaching 37-38 mph in complete stock form.

With Dr. Pulley 15x12 4.5 gram sliding weights: Still peppy to 15, with noticeable improvement from 10 to 30 mph, much improved top-end power, with good pull at 30 mph and above, reaching 40-41 tops. The Dr. Pulley weights are the ONLY mod used to achieve the gain.

For those who ignorantly believe that there is no difference between roller weights and sliding weights, try them before speaking. I've seen posts by experienced dawgs that are in error, claiming that there isn't anything to gain with sliding weights. Again, you really need to try these weights, I'm a firm believer in them after trying them. Best $29.99 (from scootertronics) I've ever spent on scoots.

[ireland2004]

Another scenario I have:

My 2005 E-ton Beamer has a few mods, such as : CDI de-restricted, 35mm K&N style air filter, Leo Vince SX raw style expansion pipe, 100 main jet, needle raised 2 notches, high flow fuel system, and 4.3 gram Polini rollers.

Stock performance: Had the natural 2-stroke rev & pep, but was governed to 35 mph and felt a little sluggish from a dead stand-still, and due to restriction fell completely flat at 35.

Partly modded, before new rollers: I believe stock rollers were 5 gram, but could've been 5.5's Before changing to the Polini's, I had removed all restrictions, added the pipe, filter, high-flow fuel system, and re-jetted the carb (which is still a tiny bit lean). Performance was strong overall, if a little light on low-end. Mid-range had become fantastic, and top end was hugely improved, with strong pull beginning at about 20 mph, and not stopping until 40 was reached, and from there, it was a steady climb to 50 mph.

Modded, with 4.3 gram Polini rollers added: The low end problem basically vanished, due to rpm's being slightly increased, and the mid-range kicking in almost immediately. From there, rpm's are slightly increased, but not by a large amount. Engine still seems relaxed, and has a very slight over-rev that gives the same feeling of floating on top of the gear as with a manual transmission.

[Doug in San Diego]

Hello all

I would suggest the most important step in regards to roller weights.

Weigh your stock weights. I assumed , based on other dawgs, that mine were 14gs.

Actually my stock were 17-18g. When I went to 11g sliders, the takeoff was great. However, it was revvng very high (probably out of the power band)

After many other problems, I now put in a new KOSO variator and 14 g rollers . THis seems to be perfect. I was on my big hill and had to lay off the gas to stop tailgaiting a car.

Also - I read that sliders act like 2- rollers, so my 11g sliders were like 9 rollers (YIKES)

Finally, Keep an eye on your rear pulley, mine as gummed up and would not open all the way.

I think Jake318 is right - Get a new exhaust for $100, a UNI filter and add power.

[stradarx150te]

I have a 2006 strada rx150te with the Dr. pully variator with 11g sliders also the Dr. pully clutch. with a 1500 rpm spring a 30mm carb and a A9 cam. Im 155lbs and and it gets up to 74mph GPS. Next i want to do the 62mm big bore kit and then i should be at 80. I also made my own header

[kspower_Nick]

Make sure you get different springs to run with that CAM!!! We caught some major coil bind issues.
Bottom Line is if you get an aftermarket cam, you need the aftermarket springs.
FYI, the Big Valve heads DON't have the right springs in them either!!!

Just want to save you some engine damage, get it done!!!

[JR]

Guys everyone has done a lot of different things some with good results, some not, but I've read this thread from start to finish and will certainly add my experience also but I kind of got a summary of things as I see it, and what is a very good thing to do on all these change-outs and if anyone wants to add a thing or two then please jump in. This is how I see it;

(1) When you decide what you want to accomplish with your scooter evaluate your every day riding conditions as to how, where, and how much you ride and record your speeds and rpm.
(2)Don't assume what one guy does with the exact same scooter will work for you, as in a guy in Washington like Harry has totally different riding conditions as in altitude, average humidity, and terrain, than a guy in Arkansas like myself.
(3) Don't guess we all know that when the Chinese assemble these scooters sometimes on different days they put in different parts such as rollers of different weights and even the belts, an example being Harry has stated his scooter came with a 842 belt and my scooter which is a 150 Bali like Harry's came with a 835 belt, ya really don't know until you open it up and sometimes it is a pain to do this just to look but it's the sure fire way. If you don't have a scale take your weights to the local post office and get them weighed for free. Free is a good thing! They weigh in standard weight as in my rollers were 1/2 ounce = 14.13 grams.
(4) If your scooter does not have a tach like a lot of 150's don't then I would bear the cost to get one where again you are not guessing, each may have their favorite but after a lot of researching on the forum for me I bought the Tiny Tach which at $43 including shipping was a reasonable cost and easy to install. I then took the scooter out on different levels of road and recorded each rpm application and then got advice from a lot of good folks and then decided on a course of action to try to accomplish what I wanted. Other factors are tire pressure and sometimes the octane of gas. My wife likes her tires just a tad low becuse it rides better for her so that's how I tested the scooter and with the same gas we buy every day.
(5) Last but not least decide on how much you think you want to invest, if your pocket book is a bottomless pit and money is no issue then this won't be a consideration for you but if you are like me and just want small gains for small money then shop while you are experimenting. I have seen some that buy the Dr. Pulley variator and love it and others are disappointed. Myself personally I did not see the cost of this as necessary for my application and believed the stock variator would do fine for me, but everyone may not see it that way. I from what I gather think the sliders are better than the rollers, BUT if you are playing with it and trying to find as we say that sweet spot then you may just want to buy cheap rollers on like Ebay until you say man this is where I want to be then get the sliders at the weight you have chose. If sliders and even the Dr. Pulley variator will make it just a little better you can always buy them after playing with the cheaper stuff. After all when you put it on and it isn't what you are looking for that's tough because ya can't return it.

As I have mentioned She has the 150 Bali with the GY-6 engine and for her I wanted to be able to climb these hills we ride in without her bogging down so bad and losing all her speed going up. After installing the tach I went for several rides in the hills where we ride and made rpm recordings and then consulted a long time forum member and he recommended 13 gram rollers from the 14 gram ones I had. My goal was not more top speed but rather more torque or climbing power without working the engine to death. Just yesterday when it got sunny and warm my wife went over Perryville mountain and now she can haul it over that hill and the bonus is she also gained about 6 to 8 mph on top end also. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. My total cost for this was under $55. It made a very noticable difference and only added about 400 rpm to the engine which ain't bad.

Like on all things it just depends on what you want but there are some things guys you can do without spending that old arm and a leg to get there. What really sucks is spending a lot and not getting there at all. JR

[jake318]

JR You post always remind me of my father Both of you got as much pleasure seeing how cheap they could do a job as much as the project itself lolol( We used to kid him and say if he changed hood ornament he thought can ran better ). Unless physics changes and texas has A different time space continum . A 1 gram differance in roller weights CANNOT get you both bottom end AND top end especially 8mph and 400 RPM differance ? JR IM NOT CALLING YOU A BULLsh!tTER . Just a word to the wise that you must have had s plates sticking in your tranny and worked it loose . From the get go I was wondering why your stock performance was so lacking but thought it was the fact that the shortcase gy6s are less powerful ( so ive been told anyway never had one ) You and Drierdan had identical situations and he had BOTH the plates sticking and the 842 belt slipping.. The point of the post is if it starts happinging again look at the plates so your not searching endlessly like drierdan . Jake

[harrywr2]

Feb 1, 2009 11:40:53 GMT -5 @jake318 said:

JR You post always remind me of my father Both of you got as much pleasure seeing how cheap they could do a job as much as the project itself lolol( We used to kid him and say if he changed hood ornament he thought can ran better ). Unless physics changes and texas has A different time space continum . A 1 gram differance in roller weights CANNOT get you both bottom end AND top end especially 8mph and 400 RPM differance ? JR IM NOT CALLING YOU A BULLsh!tTER . Just a word to the wise that you must have had s plates sticking in your tranny and worked it loose . From the get go I was wondering why your stock performance was so lacking but thought it was the fact that the shortcase gy6s are less powerful ( so ive been told anyway never had one ) You and Drierdan had identical situations and he had BOTH the plates sticking and the 842 belt slipping.. The point of the post is if it starts happinging again look at the plates so your not searching endlessly like drierdan . Jake

I reduced the weight of my rollers in my 50cc by 1 gram and picked up 6 MPH on top end...a 20% increase. A very simple equation...if your weights are preventing you from accelerating into the maximum power curve of the engine then lighter weights can and do give you better low end and top end performance.

A minor tweak on weights can change the physics from "no power left to continue accelerating into the power curve" to "just enough to continue accelerating into the power curve".

It's not BS and it has everything to due with the laws of physics. Engine power is a curve, not a straight line.

Of course going with too light of a roller weight puts one on the other side of the performance curve in which case one is sacrificing top end for better low end acceleration.