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Post by jgust on Jun 24, 2008 11:51:38 GMT -5
My lance 250 has a terrible vibration when i first start to accelerate from a stop, As soon as the cvt engages. It will smoothen out almost immediately and cruises nicely after that.
Is this normal part of the belt wearing in or is there something I should be checking. I have 400 miles on it so far and have changed all fluids including gear case oil. Engine oil three times.
I have checked for loose screws and bolts and have found nothing. Any thoughts Dawgs?
Thanks, John
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Post by Jacine on Jun 24, 2008 12:16:07 GMT -5
Check for loose clutch and variator nut.
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Post by scooterollie on Jun 24, 2008 12:22:30 GMT -5
A vibration or shudder at take off, as you describe, is most often related to the rear clutch, not the CVT - as long as the CVT nut is tight, as Jacine describes. Could be a problem with the shoes inside the clutch.
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Post by fatrabbit on Jun 24, 2008 14:46:24 GMT -5
When did you start notice it. Do you feel it when it's cold or warm or after you ride it for a period of time? Mine does it when I rode it for a while, and I guess it would be heat related. So far I had remove the CVT air filter, lower idle speed, and clean clutch assembly with brake cleaner. Feels better now, but only time will tell. I ask my dealer, he said a performance clutch will help, but I dun no, maybe later if it start acting up again.
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Post by jgust on Jun 24, 2008 19:27:54 GMT -5
Thanks Jacine and scooterollie I will check both those in the morning.
fatrabbit It does seem to be more noticeable after the I have been riding for a while, so I will check the filter and clean the clutch also as you described.
Thanks again I will post my progress to let everyone know how it turns out.
John
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Post by jgust on Jun 25, 2008 14:00:26 GMT -5
Well I pulled the cvt cover off this morning, the inside was covered in black soot. I cleaned it all up with brake cleaner and than cycled the clutch on and off by revving it up and sprayed more cleaner in the clutch assembly. The 2 filters that i found inside the cover were saturated with black soot so I cleaned them also. Took it for an extended test drive and vibration is gone now.
When the bike was delivered I noticed that the drain bolt for the gear case was leaking, not tightened properly. (My drain bolt is underneath the cvt cover) at that time I replaced the gear oil and wiped out the housing as best I could as it had gotten splattered all over everything. The contamination oil was probably inside the clutch assembly and other areas I could not get at with just a rag. The brake parts cleaner did a nice job of cleaning everything off. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that will be a permanent fix.
Thanks for your help and guidance. John
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Post by jgust on Jul 1, 2008 17:21:40 GMT -5
Well unfortunately it wasn't a permenant fix, started again after another 100 miles, same problem. I cleaned it out again and runs great again. Does anyone have any thoughts on why this is happening. I know its not comming from the gear case, I double and triple checked that for leaks. My engine is the honda 244cc clone. Thanks in advance, John
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Post by wsy1962 on Jul 1, 2008 20:41:44 GMT -5
John,
Dont know if this will help but it appears that from reading and on my own scoot that the problems usually lies with the clutch shoes as they can get glazed over, grooves can also cause the noises.
Mine was also noisy on take off and apparently was a common issue. The fix was to lock the wheels with the parking brake (silverwing) or hand brake and rev the engine to 3k-3.5K just for a second. This procedure supposedly smoothens out some of the imperfections on the clutch shoes.
I did this procedure and the vibration is gone, take offs are really smooth.
I hope this helps you out.
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Post by jgust on Jul 1, 2008 21:37:16 GMT -5
Would clutch shoes being glazed over cause all the black soot im finding under my cvt cover? Would glazed over brakes generate excessive brake dust that would cause the clutch to slip? It is working as it should again for the moment after cleaning everything again, I will try your advice and keep you all posted if the problem returns again.
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Post by marvinlee on Jul 9, 2012 23:06:46 GMT -5
I just bought a 2008 lance 250 cc as well. I have the same vibration as well upon take off then smooths out as well. What is the CVT stand for ? Could you guys guide me in location And procedure of what to tightn, clean, etc. thanks Marv
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Post by marvinlee on Jul 9, 2012 23:12:32 GMT -5
After reading further down I will investigate the areas you guys are referring too, I'm mechanically enclined , it's just new. Need to touch and feel every part
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Post by slowlane on Jul 10, 2012 8:06:23 GMT -5
I stared another thread like this one for Linhai 300. You might want to reference.
"Linhai 300 grabbing at take off (again)"
So far it appears that changing to lighter roller weights is the cure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 14:34:30 GMT -5
Im noticing the same issue on my 2 week old Jonway 250 i went out today and at lower speeds in traffic the vibrations are incredible after the scooter gets going the vibrations go away, i will remove the covers and check for dirt and see if anything changes, im thinking if the problem is the cvt clutch im just gonna replace it with a high performance clutch. it seems pretty straight forward.
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Post by mrnoitall on Jul 17, 2012 14:53:35 GMT -5
Well unfortunately it wasn't a permenant fix, started again after another 100 miles, same problem. I cleaned it out again and runs great again. Does anyone have any thoughts on why this is happening. I know its not comming from the gear case, I double and triple checked that for leaks. My engine is the honda 244cc clone. Thanks in advance, John It is most certainly your clutch shoes and or your clutch bell. It's very simple to troubleshoot. You have to check three things, The condition of the clutch pads, the condition of the inner part of the clutch bell, and the roundness of the clutch bell. Your problem is one or more or a combination of all of these. My guess is that the clutch pads/shoes have worn out and damaged the inner part of the clutch bell. If the shoes look good, it is possible that they were replaced before you bought the bike and that the old worn out pads/shoes did the damage. The inner part of the bell should be smooth. If it has gauges or scratches you've found your problem. The third possibility is that the bell is out of round. This is the least likely but it has happened to others. I would go right to the bell and check the inner part. I bet it's scuffed and scratched up due to worn clutch pads. I paid $29 shipped for new Chinese clutch pads (actually the whole assembly) on ebay and $35 for the clutch bell.. for my Honda Helix. I've had many scooters and worked on them all. Heavy vibration upon initial acceleration is due to the clutch 95% of the time. The only other thing that causes bad vibration, that I can think of, is worn out engine mounts/inserts and that would cause heavy vibration at all speeds all the time. |
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Post by wile on Jul 17, 2012 15:00:13 GMT -5
It is most likely the springs on the clutch pads are to strong and require more rpms for them to be thrown out to really grab the clutch bell good. That is usually the symptoms of glazed pads and or the springs are to strong and need higher rpms. Weaker springs will allow the pads to be thrown out at lower rpms and hold. Normally a scoot should start to move at around 2000-2500 rpms, especially the 250s since they like to idle around 2000 rpms. So if your trying to creep along below those rpms it will most likley start to shudder due to the clutch not haveing enough centrifigual force to really grab the bell.
Wile
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Post by mrnoitall on Jul 17, 2012 15:00:55 GMT -5
A vibration or shudder at take off, as you describe, is most often related to the rear clutch, not the CVT -. The CVT as wee understand it, describes the transmission all the way to the final gearing so while there may be a technical distinction between the CVT and the clutch, Generally they are grouped together. |
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Post by mrnoitall on Jul 17, 2012 15:08:58 GMT -5
It is most likely the springs on the clutch pads are to strong and require more rpms for them to be thrown out to really grab the clutch bell good If the scooter wanted to move forward when at idle or you needed to apply the brake to keep it from moving forward, The diagnosis would be worn clutch springs. The spring tension would not have any effect on vibration, it would just cause the shoes to engage earlier or later. The vibration he is describing is a result of the pads and inner bell not cooperating due to worn shoes or worn bell. |
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Post by wile on Jul 17, 2012 15:51:24 GMT -5
Well nobody mentioned anything about the scooter wanting to move forward at idle. And if so it could just be that itis idleing to high. The 250s like to idle at 1800-2000 rpms and if it starts to move at those speeds then Yes I would agree the clutch springs are weak and being thrown out at to low of rpms .
Spring tension does effect and can cause shuddering or vibration as he is calling it if they are to strong that require higher rpms for them to engage. The shuddering and or vibration will occur at rpms that are lower than what it took to have them engage.
Wile
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Post by chromestarhustler on Jul 17, 2012 15:57:53 GMT -5
way to bring back this thread from the dead, just over 4 years old, great job newb.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 16:27:58 GMT -5
Quick update after making the post, before, and reading some of the suggestions, i went and took off the cvt and belt cover, it has some clutch dust there not enough to make a difference, i clean it and put it back to together but i had no luck the scooter was still vibrating like crazy when taking off and below 10mph what i did i held the rear brake like mention in one of the post and rev the engine a little for about 30 seconds and i actually felt the vibrations stop. so as far as now no more vibration, i will keep you guys posted.
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Post by mrnoitall on Jul 17, 2012 23:20:49 GMT -5
i held the rear brake like mention in one of the post and rev the engine a little for about 30 seconds and i actually felt the vibrations stop. so as far as now no more vibration, i will keep you guys posted. This is a very temporary solution.By holding the brake and giving it throttle, you are more or less accomplishing the same thing that you would by taking it apart and cleaning it. Neither approach will work for long. Also keep in mind that when you hold the brake and give it gas, You are forcing the clutch pads to rotate against a stationary bell. If you have worn pads, this process will likely scratch the hell out your clutch bell. As I stated above, You have worn pads, a damaged bell or a combination of both. Inspect and feel the inner part of the bell. It should be smooth. Think of a disk brake. When the pads wear to much, they will cut into the rotor and leave scratches. If the inner part of the bell is anything but smooth, you are going to have vibration. |
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Post by marvinlee on Jul 17, 2012 23:35:24 GMT -5
A vibration or shudder at take off, as you describe, is most often related to the rear clutch, not the CVT - as long as the CVT nut is tight, as Jacine describes. Could be a problem with the shoes inside the clutch. . How tight is tight? I have the same prob. Should these be just snug, or really seated in.? |
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Post by marvinlee on Jul 17, 2012 23:40:48 GMT -5
John, Dont know if this will help but it appears that from reading and on my own scoot that the problems usually lies with the clutch shoes as they can get glazed over, grooves can also cause the noises. Mine was also noisy on take off and apparently was a common issue. The fix was to lock the wheels with the parking brake (silverwing) or hand brake and rev the engine to 3k-3.5K just for a second. This procedure supposedly smoothens out some of the imperfections on the clutch shoes. I did this procedure and the vibration is gone, take offs are really smooth. I hope this helps you out. . When you rev the motor, is it on its stand, kind of like power braking so to speak , then letting go of the break(0n the right) thanks let me know |
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Post by mrnoitall on Jul 18, 2012 11:17:43 GMT -5
A vibration or shudder at take off, as you describe, is most often related to the rear clutch, not the CVT - as long as the CVT nut is tight, as Jacine describes. Could be a problem with the shoes inside the clutch. . How tight is tight? I have the same prob. Should these be just snug, or really seated in.? The nut does not have anything to do with the shoes contacting the inner bell. The vibration is not due to a loose nut. If your nut was loose, it along with the entire clutch would fly off immediately and you would know it. The clutch parts are grooved to match the the groves in the final drive shaft. Even if the nut was loose, the clutch would not cause vibration. It's not the springs or loose nuts. After owning many scooters and working on them all, I am 100% certian that the problem described in this thread is due to the contact between the clutch shoes and inner bell. One or both of them are worn/damaged or just dirty/glazed. I should also mention that a small amount of vibration should not be a concern. Think of it as a feature of scooters. ;D I will now bow out of this discussion knowing that I've done my best to explain what is causing your vibration problems. |
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Post by slowlane on Jul 18, 2012 16:37:22 GMT -5
Is there such a thing as replacing the clutch, variator and belt with high quality new parts? If yes, would someone recommend where I could get a high quality full replacement clutch, variator and belt for a 2008 Linhai 300. Thanks, Slowlane
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2012 17:34:07 GMT -5
i held the rear brake like mention in one of the post and rev the engine a little for about 30 seconds and i actually felt the vibrations stop. so as far as now no more vibration, i will keep you guys posted. This is a very temporary solution.By holding the brake and giving it throttle, you are more or less accomplishing the same thing that you would by taking it apart and cleaning it. Neither approach will work for long. Also keep in mind that when you hold the brake and give it gas, You are forcing the clutch pads to rotate against a stationary bell. If you have worn pads, this process will likely scratch the hell out your clutch bell. As I stated above, You have worn pads, a damaged bell or a combination of both. Inspect and feel the inner part of the bell. It should be smooth. Think of a disk brake. When the pads wear to much, they will cut into the rotor and leave scratches. If the inner part of the bell is anything but smooth, you are going to have vibration. you are right about that, after going for a long ride and getting stuck on stop and go traffic, i experience the same issue, and after riding for while and stopping the vibration is less, so i guess a call to the dealer for me, so they can send me a new clutch :-( |
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Post by mrnoitall on Jul 20, 2012 10:12:53 GMT -5
Is there such a thing as replacing the clutch, variator and belt with high quality new parts? If yes, would someone recommend where I could get a high quality full replacement clutch, variator and belt for a 2008 Linhai 300. Thanks, Slowlane You can find replacment parts (same quality as the original) all over the place ( SCRAPPYDOG.com for one) but don't go hog wild buying a bunch of parts you don't need. It is extremely unlikely that you would need to replace entire clutch, the entire variator and the belt. I read your other thread and I know people are just trying to help but the vibration has nothing to do with the springs on the clutch or the belt or the variator. You are experiencing something that is very common on scooters. My HONDA HELIX will vibrate until about 12 mph... If you go to the Honda Helix boards you will see that this is very common. If you go to the Vespa boards you will find the same subject over and over again. You should expect a bit of vibration.. it is an inherent side effect of a scooter CVT . If you can totally eliminate it great but that's not always the case so you may have to settle for minimizing it. If you've decided to buy new parts, you can go here www.scrappydogscooters.com/LH170MN_Linhai_257___275.html and go about 3/4 the way down and for $75 you can buy the complete rear clutch pulley assembly which includes everything that could possibly be causing the vibration you are describing. I'm not suggesting that you need the whole assembly. You very likely only need the bell and or the clutch shoes but since the whole assembly is only $75.. it might not be a bad idea to buy it. |
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Post by slowlane on Jul 20, 2012 17:17:40 GMT -5
mrnoitall Thank you for putting it plainly. It's slowly beginning to sink in now especially when so many different riders are making the same complaint about just as many different scooters. Just about all scooters are going to vibrate and shake when accelerating so, I need to give it up, get a life, ride and have fun. Sure hate hitting a wall like this but not much else you can do. I did ride a 2004 Honda reflex and it did not vibrate at all but my 300 Linhai blew it away powerwise. The Honda was weak but smooth.
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Post by styxfan on Jul 26, 2012 9:21:43 GMT -5
I have a similar issue though my scoot only screetches (squeeks, squeels, pick one) at take off, from a stop. There isn't any noticable vibration or shutter (nothing out of the norm anyway). I can assume it's the clutch shoes as well (belt looks good). I've been doing a lot of searching, but haven't found anywhere to buy the clutch shoes. Has anyone, ever purchased, just the clutch shoes? If so, where?
I've done countless searches, but come up empty each time. Any suggestions?
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imp69
New Puppy Dawg
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Post by imp69 on Aug 4, 2012 14:53:19 GMT -5
My 2011 Roketa MC-54 250cc (YY250T) is Brand new and have the shudder and shakes at exaclly 10 mph and usally starts after bike warms up for 15 min. I dismiss the worn cluch or pads etc as bike only has 150 mile on it I called The Tech. at supierior moter sports where I bought from (Warng to all don't buy from these people as soon as they get your $ all changes froms courtius to screw you but thats a differn't prolem) anyway for all it is worth he told me that putting real antifreeze in instead of Window washer fluid it comes with (which I already done as with all the cheap fluids in scooter and his 2nd reason was the bike has to "were in" for about 400 miles for the shudder/Shake to go away. I think he is just waiting for 2 month warentty to expire. Just thought I would share this info.
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