Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 9, 2008 19:00:27 GMT -5
I noted a couple of other threads regarding ATV Discounters (henceforth ATVD). In deference to the folks who started those threads, I thought I'd keep my comments in a new thread for those of you who care to read. The reason I've decided to start this thread is to give a real-time/complete account of what happens when one orders from ATVD. I will do my best to stick only to the facts and give a full time-line from purchase to post-delivery. Here's the salient info so far: I was considering buying a Lance Vintage when I came across a similarly (if not exact) styled scooter--the SUNL 150T-6E. Lance Vintages got a price hike, and now routinely sell for around $1600, so when I found the SUNL model at the ATVD website priced for $998, I was very interested. I should state right upfront that I failed to do any online research on ATVD prior to calling and ordering. What I noted from their website was they had a number of Brick & Mortar stores in the Dallas area. I'm located in TX, and I assumed that buying from an established B&M store would be safer than gambling on an internet-only drop-shipper. So I called them on Wednesday, the 4th of June, and spoke with Doug. I had the presence of mind to ask a few questions. In sum, here's what I asked and Doug verbally told me: Q: How will I get the scooter's paperwork? A: It is shipped about a week after the scooter. Q: Is there any assembly required? A: The scooter's front wheel must be attached and the handlebars must be secured--that is all. (Doug also gave me a website with instructions on how to attach the wheel) Q: How long will it take my bike to ship? A: Can take one to two weeks; delivery should be fast as I am located in TX. His answers satisfied me, and I placed an order for the bike pictured HERE at 11:15 a.m CST. ATVD's stadard delivery is to a local freight terminal. I decided to pay $100 extra for home delivery as I didn't want to have to wrangle a buddy and truck. Within less than 12 hours I had received emails from "shipping" and another directly from Doug. The shipping email provided a link to a webpage where I could check the status of my order as well as print an invoice. Doug's email listed all contact information and phone numbers. It wasn't until after I placed the order that I discovered these threads as well as becoming aware of their eBay ratings. I was, to say the least, a bit concerned. ATVD has 7516 feedbacks since joining eBay in 2003; 1066 of those in the last 12 months. As of last week, their eBay rating was at 94.4 overall, but their trend over the last 30 days as I write this is 73 positive, 2 neutral, and 20 negative. I dug through their eBay feedback and found a guy (also located in TX) who had purchased an SC-22 from them as well. After emailing the guy to ask his opinion, he described his purchase as overall positive (he left positive eBay feedback). However, when he sent me a picture of his scooter, I noted that it was an SC-15 not an SC-22 as pictured on the listing he bid on. The bike's are somewhat similarly styled (both are branded SUNL), but there is a definite difference, not so much in price, but in styling. After doing all my homework AFTER the purchase, I figured it would be prudent to phone my credit card company and inquire as to how I should handle any problems if they delivered the wrong bike, or if there was damage upon delivery. Specifically, I wanted to know how to build a solid case should I have to challenge the charges. My credit card company gave me some valuable advice, that other consumers would do well to heed, regardless of how unpalatable it might seem. Basically it boils down to this: you must abide by ATVD's written process for dealing with damages and/or wrong item delivery. If you do not (e.g. you refuse shipment) then your challenge is not likely to be approved in full. Mind you, ATVD had done nothing wrong when I made this call--I merely wanted to find out how to CORRECTLY/LEGALLY deal with a situation should it arise. Oh, this might be of interest--my credit card company told me that although they had a record of the transaction, the vendor had not yet charged my card. I offer this detail only because it seems to be in line with some laws I've read about that prohibit vendors from charging a card until after an order has shipped. Based on seeing another consumer shipped the wrong scooter, I called back to ATVD on Friday, 6 June. I first got a woman, but she quickly put Doug on the phone when she couldn't answer my question. I tried to be polite and businesslike when asking for assurance that the bike I saw on the website would definately be the bike sent. Doug assured me it would be. I've spent some time in the interim doing more research on ATVD and am anxious to see how my experience turns out. My purpose in posting my info is to try and provide a complete, unemotional account of how my transaction unfolds. Should any of you like copies of the emails I've received, please request via PM. My first update came this evening (9 June), at approximately 6 p.m. CST when I logged on to the site they provided and noted that my shipment was now listed as "SHIPMENT PREPARED" (it had previously been annotated as "READY TO SHIP"). I am not 100% certain of what that annotation means, but I am GUESSING it means that they have notified the shipping company that they have prepared a package to be picked up at a warehouse for delivery. Based on my experience with other online retailers, that is generally the first step that gets annotated. That is about 5 and a half calendar days after placing the order or 3 and a half business days. ATVD's website states: As I write this (less than an hour after my shipment status changing), I haven't received an email. I expect I will probably get one in about 3 days. I will post updates. |
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Post by meloyelo on Jun 9, 2008 20:30:40 GMT -5
tobor: according to Doug at ATVD, "shipment prepared" just means that the paperwork is ready. When I first saw my "shipment prepared" update, I got all excited and assumed it was waiting at the door ready for pickup. If you click on the order number you should get an Estes tracking number. On the Estes site it will say something about it being electronically sent but freight not yet tendered to Estes.
I also received a scoot a bit different than what I expected. I had ordered a VOG (SC-25) and received a Sunl (SC-27). Same "manufacturer" with slightly different front end, but in no way disappointed (I got the color I wanted). Don't fret, Doug seems like he's on the ball. Once you see movement on the Estes website, try calling him again to get the ball rolling on the MSO. The one that comes under the scooter seat from SUNL is no good to the DMV because it's not signed and is listed as a moped, not a motorcycle. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 9, 2008 21:23:36 GMT -5
Interesting that they sent you a different model than you ordered. That has me a little bit concerned since I've read one other report of this. Did you discuss it with them? Did they offer an explanation?
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Post by meloyelo on Jun 9, 2008 21:42:17 GMT -5
I haven't asked because I'm happy with what I got. It was sort of my choice. When I called to ask about my order, Doug said that the two color choices (grey & green) where not in stock, and did not know when they'd come in (something about manifests not being correct from China). So, I took what he had in yellow. I believe that the wrong scooter can sneak through once in a while. One thing that they do that I think is wrong is to not open the packages. Meaning what comes in the door goes out the same way. So if the BOL or manifest is wrong, so will your order. When I received mine, the box was sealed with Chinese writing on it, ATVD never opened it. Again, I'm not disappointed with what I received as it was basically the same scoot, specs and all, with a slightly different nose. Mine also came with a small amplifier tucked behind the headlights, two small speakers in the dash, FM radio and an MP3 plug with volume controls. While not very loud to hear while driving, it's nice none the less (not sure if all/most Sunl's come with this feature.
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Post by mortar235 on Jun 9, 2008 23:32:41 GMT -5
Well i ordered my scooter from atvdiscounter on may 3rd and received it the 30th of may. I just received my MSO on the 9th of June... Now 5 weeks may not sound bad at all... but it was 5 weeks full of being hung up on, lied too, and just plain dodged completely. The company has terrible business ethics, but just keep riding them until they do the right thing.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 12, 2008 18:04:46 GMT -5
Since 8 calendar days had passed since I placed my order, I decided to do an experiment today to gauge what type of customer service ATVD would provide. At 12:45 p.m. CST, I sent a brief, polite email to ATVD's shipping department inquiring on the status of my order. I received a reply at 5:15 p.m. the same day.
Below is the email chain.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 16, 2008 21:15:35 GMT -5
I received an unexpected call from the delivery truck today (16 June) at 2:35 p.m. The driver told me he had my scooter on his truck and wanted to deliver it. I left work and met him at around 3:45. The box (see below) arrived in good condition. I chronicled my unwrapping with pics. I was extremely careful while removing all the tape and packing material in order to avoid losing any critical parts. NOTE: There is NO manual for assembly, and as you can see, not only was the front wheel unattached, so were body panels, handlebars, some wires, and the battery. I will detail more about the assembly later--needless to say, I am not yet through. The only damage to the scooter was a small hole in the seat (see picture). However, they sent me a luggage box (painted to match) which I've seen sold for $50 minimum. I was going to shell out the cash for that anyway, so I can live with a tiny hole. The scooter I received is somewhat different from the one pictured on their website. When I have time, I will post comparison pictures. Basically, the only difference is the footboard and an accent piece. The footboard was supposed to be metal diamond-cut, and the accent piece was small (plastic) chrome. Still, same scooter design. No SUNL markings anywhere, however. I have not finished putting it together. I need to buy Loctite and hoses. I did, however, throw some gas in and crank it. It fired up pretty quickly and I took it for an extremely short jaunt in front of my house. Ran/idled fine. More assembly still required (mostly PDI/plastics). Significant things to note: 1) Ordered 4 June, delivered 16 June 2) Never was provided tracking number; had no idea item was in transit 3) Required more assembly than I expected, but not a show stopper 4) Definately a two-man assembly job.           |
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Post by tvh on Jun 16, 2008 21:31:42 GMT -5
Wow! You do have alot of parts to put together. I don't see a backrest on yours. I am still a little miffed that the diamond late footrests weren't there. When I saw the cool wheels it calmed me down tho. Are yours 13"?
I'll bet there is a shiny chrome sunl sticky somewhere in all that packaging waiting for you to paste it on. Did you find a plastic chrome chicken head? It is supposed to be attatched to the front fender. I took mine off, it looked cheap.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 16, 2008 21:53:12 GMT -5
I think my backrest is built on to the luggage trunk. By the way, that piece costs $47.99 and SUNL sells them here: LINKI agree, the diamond footrests would have been nice. I failed to mention that what mine came with was a custom piece of gray carpet for a footrests. I'll need to velcro it on or something I suppose. I had a heck of a time with the handlebars. The left grip/brake were attached, but the right throttle/brake were not. I struggled with the throttle piece for at least an hour before I took it apart and got it fitted on the bars correctly. One thing I am extremely concerned about is the front axle. I am unclear whether the axle secures (on the brake side) with a bolt cap (?) or a lock nut. It's odd, because I have one of each and they both fit (impossible to use both). I have no idea what the "extra" one will go on. For now, I'm using the lock nut. I'm definitely going to use Loctite though! |
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Post by "Big Guy" on Jun 16, 2008 22:43:49 GMT -5
It secures on the brake side with the lock nut. The other nut is just a shipping nut that was on the axle for crating.
-Rich
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Post by hardd1 on Jun 17, 2008 4:07:59 GMT -5
holy smokes............looks like a chop-shop stripped the scooter with so many pieces to assemble
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 17, 2008 6:48:15 GMT -5
It really isn't too bad, although I can see why somebody might be intimidated. I look at is a challenge. Somebody really should write an assembly instruction though.
BigGuy: Thanks for the info on that lock nut! I was really sweating that!
My current plan is to buy some blue Loctite tonight as well as the new fuel line. I think I will tackle the vacuum line in a week or so.
If all goes well I'd like to get close to getting the body panels on. That really isn't a priority tonight though. I really want to get those screws & bolts secure.
I really need that MCO in my hands and a good week on the road with the scooter before I'm able to fairly categorize my experience with ATVD. At this point I'm optimistic.
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 18, 2008 8:18:29 GMT -5
Having (unexpectedly) received the scooter on the 16th of June, I decided to heed the advice of some on this forum and email ATVD asking for the MSO on the morning of the 17th (7:51 a.m. to be exact). Mr Dahle:
Thank you for your assistance with my order (#XXXXX). The bike arrived yesterday and so far I love it. I am chronicling my purchase and prep of the bike on a popular scooter website and there has been a great deal of interest.
I’ve read that I need to get with you in order to have the MSO sent out. Here is the pertinent info:
Scooter: SUNL(?) 150T-28 (that’s what the owners manual says)
VIN #: L5XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Color: Blue
My information is:
My Name
My Street Address
San Antonio, TX 78XXX
Thank you very much for your assistance!
My Name I sent the email to both the saleman (Doug Dahle) as well as the email address of the MSO-request department. I received a "READ" confirmation from Doug and Jessica by 9:01 a.m. on the 17th. As I write this, I haven't received an email back from either. To be on the safeside, I just filled out the online MSO/Bill of Sale request form (8 a.m., 18 June). I immediately received this auto-generate reply email: Thank you for submitting your MSO request. While this is an automated response, please be assured that every email is reviewed by our company. All requests are processed immediately. You should receive your MSO and Bill of Sale within two weeks of this email.
Our customer service goal is simple: We pride ourselves as being the easiest, most attentive online ATV retailer to do business with. We are committed to providing our customers total satisfaction. Every time. Guaranteed. If you have any further questions or need any other assistance, please do not hesitate to let us know.
Sincerely,
ATV Discounter Internet Sales
817.717.7001(Direct)
On a separate note, I worked about 4 hours on the scoot yesterday evening doing PDI. Before starting, I took alot of digital pictures of all the guts/wiring/connectors of the bike. I figured this might come in handy if I plan future projects. I managed to swap out the fuel-lines, change the oil, swap the fuse and apply loctite. The stock fuel lines are complete garbage--they are using the exact same hoses as the vacuum lines (cheap, thin plastic). Getting the fender on was difficult without instructions. I wrestled with it for about 30 minutes and finally got it. I have it 95% assembled, but stopped due to darkness. I did crank it and take it for about a half-mile ride, which was very smooth and nice. My goal for tonight is to finish attaching the body panels and maybe the cargo trunk. Then I'm going to begin the break-in. |
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 18, 2008 20:50:22 GMT -5
Still no word from ATVD on the MSO. Then again, I was never told the bike was shipping either. Maybe I'll walk down to the mailbox.... Here's the bike assembled. "No assembly required" MY A$$! There's still some tweaks that I need to do, but (hopefully) nothing major. I took it out for a spin in my neighborhood (about 4 miles) and opened it up a few times checking the speedo against my Garmin Forerunner GPS. Speedo was pretty much spot-on.  |
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Post by leshassell on Jun 19, 2008 22:49:27 GMT -5
Congrats on the scooter, tobor! Sweet lookin' ride. I'm glad I ordered mine with "some assembly required." All I had to do was pretty much mirrors and battery. Well, I finally got a return email from Nathan Barling. Rather than making an effort to sort this situation out and provide some customer service he chose to chide me for getting online and complaining about their service. I don't know if he read it here or not but it is a possibility that maybe some voices are at least being heard. I finally got a certificate of origin today (been waiting for over seven weeks) unfortunately, its for a different scooter. Wrong manufacturer and model. So, once again I'm calling and emailing... and once again, it seems to be falling on deaf ears.
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Post by Greg on Jun 20, 2008 4:53:03 GMT -5
looks very nice
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Post by tvh on Jun 20, 2008 12:15:11 GMT -5
My brother inlaw is a police officer and he did my safety inspection for me, filled out the sheet from sec state. According to him I should be able to take that and the mco that was shipped with my scoot along with the internet bill of sale and get my plates/title etc. He said the safety inspection would take the place of a signed stamped mco that we all seem to be waitnig for. I will try this and let you know. Then hopefully we can all wipe our a$$es with our mcos when they finally do come in the mail.
Aside from that I am very happy with my vintage from ATVD. They have been communicating with me. Have you noticed there are no vintages on their site right now?
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 20, 2008 12:48:54 GMT -5
I received an unexpected & cryptic email from ATVD's MSO department today at 11:28 a.m. on 20 June. For some reason, the date/time stamp from them shows it was sent 19 June at 6:14 p.m. I assume it's a response from my email to them earlier this week... -----Original Message-----
From: Titling Department [mailto:titles@atvdiscounter.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:14 PM
To: XXX@gmail.com
Subject: Re: MSO Request
Your request is being processed.
-------------------------------------------------- |
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jun 24, 2008 13:23:15 GMT -5
I received my bill of sale and MCO yesterday, the 23rd of June. That is 7 calendar days after receiving the scooter, and two and a half weeks from placing my order. I need to do some research on getting the title and registration in TX. I think I have to have an inspection prior to registration(?).
I do like the scooter, but there is no doubt that it has some cheap components. ATVD did deliver and, at least in my case, did so in a timely manner. I know not everyone is so lucky.
Now that the purchase phase is complete (I'll keep the support stuff separate), I'd like to offer my observations about how I see this industry in general (not necessarily about ATVD). First off, from what I've read here and elsewhere, the demand for scooters is much higher than the current supply. The majority of people selling scooters online seem to drop-shipping them and are probably dependent on what their suppliers are able to feed them. With limited supply, these online retailers are probably scrambling to find ways to fill orders any way they can. This often results in scooters being delivered that are different from what was originally ordered. I don't believe that the majority of these retailers has the inclination (or scruples) to tell consumers that their purchase is on backorder. The retailer probably needs to front cash to order the drop-shipped scooter. Once that order is submitted to a supplier, it is probably extremely difficult to turn it off or re-vector it. Instead, they just seem to slow-roll (sometimes lying to) consumers hoping that the supplier will come through quickly. The same thing probably occurs with the paperwork. That stuff probably travels separate from the scooter to the retailer, and if it gets mixed up the lag time to get it to the consumer becomes horrible.
I had a fairly decent experience so far, and I know I'm going to take some heat for my next comment. I think alot of consumers have unrealistic expectations when ordering scooters from e-merchants. I've read a number of threads, both here and elsewhere, where folks get heated when they don't receive their order within two weeks. It seems to me that if you want a buy & ride experience you should be prepared to pay a greater premium and/or do business with a brick & mortar retailer. Of course, paying more to purchase from an online retailer who actually does PDI and doesn't drop-ship isn't that attractive to someone trying to get a scooter on the cheap. When a consumer orders from a drop-shipper with cut-rate prices, they should factor in the cost (in time, service, and convenience) with the benefit (the low price). What's the old addage...."don't hate the player, hate the game."
All of that said, nothing I've written should excuse the retailers from lying and stonewalling. Some retailers have behaved in completely reprehensible ways and failed to meet even the lowest standards of business ethics. For example, attacking their customers on eBay feedback.
I'd catagorize my buying expererience as positive, but I also know I'm lucky. It might not have gone so well. It seems to me that the issue with purchasing cheap scooters online has less to do with the retailer and more to do with the systemic problems of distribution and an unfavorable (to the consumer) suppy & demand situation.
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Post by madmanjustice on Jun 24, 2008 15:03:36 GMT -5
I received my bill of sale and MCO yesterday, the 23rd of June. That is 7 calendar days after receiving the scooter, and two and a half weeks from placing my order. I need to do some research on getting the title and registration in TX. I think I have to have an inspection prior to registration(?). Don't think so, but you do need insurance before getting the inspection and tags.. see the following thread. scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=9818 |
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Post by daqueen on Jun 30, 2008 16:19:01 GMT -5
You should count your lucky stars (and maybe go buy a lottery ticket!), cuz I ordered mine (that looks just like yours but is a Motobravo MC-80 in pink) on May 3rd, and still haven't received so much as a tracking number!
I know that they just aren't in stock (they sold mine to someone else), but I wish they wouldn't lie about it. Just tell me the truth...give me honest expectations...and I'd quit emailing & calling them!
Is that REALLY too much to ask???
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Post by phaze on Jun 30, 2008 18:44:07 GMT -5
daqueen get what ever color they got and either paint it pink or accent with pink.
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Post by daqueen on Jul 1, 2008 9:48:04 GMT -5
Well, I emailed 3 different people there, yesterday, and no one has responded. If anyone would respond, I would tell them to send me SOMETHING!
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Tobor
Big Dawg
The 8th Man
Posts: 23
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Post by Tobor on Jul 1, 2008 19:25:09 GMT -5
One final update on this scooter. I had the bike inspected (a requirement in TX) and titled/tagged. The safety inspection went off without a hitch. The titling part went fine, however the clerk seemed somewhat confused on what type of tag to give me. A supervisor had to come out and ask me how fast the scooter would go--I told him between 50 and 60 mph. 1500cc scooter's aren't highway rated anywhere (as far as I know), so I assume they gave me the right tag!
I've been fairly busy recently, but I did take a minute to crank the scooter this evening. IT had been about 5 days, but it cranked flawlessly. I will take it out for a ride tomorrow.
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