Your favorite 2-cycle oil

[sugonaut]

Hi dawgs,

So I blew the engine on the chinascoot (Red Streak/Meitian) 30 minutes after I put in the new diaphragm. Long story short - I went out and bought 2 new bikes today (one for her and one for him). The wife ended up with a Yamaha Vino Classic, and I a Genuine Rough House.

The Genuine is a 2-stroke. The mechanic recommended Blue Marble oil, but wanted to poll the crowd to see what else folks are using.

Thanks in advance for any opinion.

[90GTVert]

I used to like Mobil 1 MX2T, but that was discontinued. Got a case of Amsoil Saber waiting for when I run out of MX2T. A lot of people seem to like Blue Marble.

[kaintuckdave]

My dealer sold me Valvoline and it's been just fine and dandy so far. He said any 2-stroke oil that's made in USA is okay because of the regulations for selling it in this country. With that in mind I've got a little bitty container of ECHO 2-stroke oil under my seat (that I use in my chain saw, weed eater, leaf blower etc.) in case my oil light comes on while I'm out riding.

[motomech]

May 31, 2008 22:29:42 GMT -5 kaintuckdave said:

My dealer sold me Valvoline and it's been just fine and dandy so far. He said any 2-stroke oil that's made in USA is okay because of the regulations for selling it in this country.

Your dealer is sorely mistaken.
Outboards don't have mufflers to get clogged and over time, outboard and chain saw oils will do just that to a motor scooter.
Due to their restrictive mufflers, carbon and ash does not get totally swept out of the system.
It pays over the long run to use clean burning oils.
I prefer Bel Ray's syntheics like SI-7, but any oil carried by a motorcycle store and specified for motorcycles would be OK.
When I had my scooter shop, I carried Bel Ray MC-3, a good lesser priced alternitive.
2-stroke oils that can be bought in 7 Eleven stores should be avoided.

2 stroke oils are not created equal and I wouldn't use Ehco oil even in a chain saw.
Here in Costa Rica, we have had the best results with Sthil oils.
I know, because I have been a golf course equipment manger for many years and gold courses run dozens of small two-stroke engines daily.

[sugonaut]

Interesting - thanks for your responses. I hadn't thought of synthetic oil either. The shop where I bought the scooters carries the Bel-Ray Si-7. I think I'll go that route for now. I'll have to order the Blue Marble online otherwise (or drive 35 miles to pick some up at a Marina). It's odd the mechanic recommended an oil that isn't stocked, though.

Thanks again, guys!

[kaintuckdave]

Hello motormech, thanks for the heads up. Are 2 strokes like 4 strokes in that you should use regular oil until the motor's broken in well and then switch to synthetic?

[voodoosix]

yamalube is pretty good stuff

[motomech]

Jun 2, 2008 12:35:40 GMT -5 kaintuckdave said:

Hello motormech, thanks for the heads up. Are 2 strokes like 4 strokes in that you should use regular oil until the motor's broken in well and then switch to synthetic?

No, it's different. SI-7 is actually a blend, but even a full syn. would be ok from the get go on a two-stroke.

What I like to see from my two-stroke bikes is just a whiff of smoke on start-up and maybe when the throttle is opened up.
SI-7(any other premium blend)and usually an adjustment to the mix ratio or autolube pump give me this.
I don't believe that these little 50cc's have an adjustable oil pump, so, it's easy to imagine that manufacturers calibrate them on the rich side, to be safe.
With out getting too technical, here's the scenario;

On 2 stroke scooters and M.C.'s(at least the Hondas that I know so well), there is sound deadening material(fiberglass basically)sandwiched on the walls of the chambers. Over time and especially with the less clean burning oils, this material starts to get saturated. That's when you start to see a thick, dark dribble coming out of the muffler outlet(called spouge by the dirt bike guys). The saturation effects performance in a couple of ways.

With high performance 2 strokes, the exh. port actually stays open a little longer than desirable for low speed running and the expansion chamber and silencer are designed to have a timed negative pressure pulse that pushes to un-burned escaping mixture back into the cylinder(called stuffing the cylinder). The silencer is specifically designed to absorb the pressure waves at the end on the exh. system and help the pipe to "reflect" these waves back. And when it becomes saturated, it loses it's ability to do this. The performance loss is very similar to a dirty air filter.
These scooters have smaller exh. ports(kind of like a milder cam in a 4 stroke) and the reverse pressure waves are not so important.
What happens with them, it that the insides of the muffler gets coated with thick oil and starts to collect the carbon, slowly but surely, closing up the passages and adding back pressure.
Then what happens, the exh. port starts to get clogged with carbon, closing off the hole though which the spent gases escape. The more restrictive the muffler, the more the tendency for the exh. port to get clogged.
A perfect example was the original Honda Spree(introduced in 1984). Honda offered a "Iowa" Spree, a restricted version to meet the moped laws in Iowa(and most of the other States, I assume). To accomplish this, Honda reduced the size of the header pipe coming down and into the muffler. I saw Iowa Sprees that had been fed a steady diet of 7 Eleven oils slowed down to 15 m.p.h. in less than a 1,000 miles.
I terms of 50cc 2 stroke scooter maintenance issues, fully half of my time was spent dealing with saturated mufflers/clogged exhaust ports.
When rooting though my collection of used mufflers, I could pretty much tell how much oil was in a muffler by how much it weighed. Fully soaked mufflers were pounds heavier.
I also made a "scraping" tool set to clean the exh. ports out from of a small file set. I would heat them and bend them into appropriate shapes.
80cc and larger 2 stroke scooters are much less effected with these issues, presumably because of the greater volume of gases being swept out.
Yes, it's a a bit of a pain to keep the scooter supplied with a premium oil and it does add to the cost of operating a bit, but it's small price to pay to ride the only 50cc scooters that are truly fun.

[motomech]

Jun 2, 2008 19:19:29 GMT -5 voodoosix said:

yamalube is pretty good stuff

Yes, it is.
There was a time when it was the absolute best available.

Actually, Kawasakisuzukihonda oil is very good as well.

[kanoaphoto]

I am using Blue Marble and it seems to be doing fine. I found this article on it and thought you might be interested. They test it in a snowmobile, but to me it still shows what it does for an engine.:
snowmobile.off-road.com/snowmobile/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=253172
It has gotten mixed reviews other places though. Hasn't hurt me yet, but I don't have that many miles w/ it. Some people say it gives you a power increase, but I don't really think I felt one. Basically: I am not afraid to use it, but not sure if I will go out of my way to keep using it.

[sugonaut]

Thanks for the article, kanoaphoto! Interesting read.

[ryan_ott]

I also like Amsoil Dominator and Bel-Ray SI-7. I've been using the SI-7 in many different engines for years and never had a probem. I also have used full synthetic oil on many new 2 stroke engines without issues.

[ArsenalRacing.com]

MOTOREX Scooter GP.

[kaintuckdave]

Jun 2, 2008 22:32:07 GMT -5 motomech said:

Jun 2, 2008 12:35:40 GMT -5 kaintuckdave said:

Hello motormech, thanks for the heads up. Are 2 strokes like 4 strokes in that you should use regular oil until the motor's broken in well and then switch to synthetic?

No, it's different. SI-7 is actually a blend, but even a full syn. would be ok from the get go on a two-stroke.

What I like to see from my two-stroke bikes is just a whiff of smoke on start-up and maybe when the throttle is opened up.
SI-7(any other premium blend)and usually an adjustment to the mix ratio or autolube pump give me this.
I don't believe that these little 50cc's have an adjustable oil pump, so, it's easy to imagine that manufacturers calibrate them on the rich side, to be safe.
With out getting too technical, here's the scenario;

On 2 stroke scooters and M.C.'s(at least the Hondas that I know so well), there is sound deadening material(fiberglass basically)sandwiched on the walls of the chambers. Over time and especially with the less clean burning oils, this material starts to get saturated. That's when you start to see a thick, dark dribble coming out of the muffler outlet(called spouge by the dirt bike guys). The saturation effects performance in a couple of ways.

With high performance 2 strokes, the exh. port actually stays open a little longer than desirable for low speed running and the expansion chamber and silencer are designed to have a timed negative pressure pulse that pushes to un-burned escaping mixture back into the cylinder(called stuffing the cylinder). The silencer is specifically designed to absorb the pressure waves at the end on the exh. system and help the pipe to "reflect" these waves back. And when it becomes saturated, it loses it's ability to do this. The performance loss is very similar to a dirty air filter.
These scooters have smaller exh. ports(kind of like a milder cam in a 4 stroke) and the reverse pressure waves are not so important.
What happens with them, it that the insides of the muffler gets coated with thick oil and starts to collect the carbon, slowly but surely, closing up the passages and adding back pressure.
Then what happens, the exh. port starts to get clogged with carbon, closing off the hole though which the spent gases escape. The more restrictive the muffler, the more the tendency for the exh. port to get clogged.
A perfect example was the original Honda Spree(introduced in 1984). Honda offered a "Iowa" Spree, a restricted version to meet the moped laws in Iowa(and most of the other States, I assume). To accomplish this, Honda reduced the size of the header pipe coming down and into the muffler. I saw Iowa Sprees that had been fed a steady diet of 7 Eleven oils slowed down to 15 m.p.h. in less than a 1,000 miles.
I terms of 50cc 2 stroke scooter maintenance issues, fully half of my time was spent dealing with saturated mufflers/clogged exhaust ports.
When rooting though my collection of used mufflers, I could pretty much tell how much oil was in a muffler by how much it weighed. Fully soaked mufflers were pounds heavier.
I also made a "scraping" tool set to clean the exh. ports out from of a small file set. I would heat them and bend them into appropriate shapes.
80cc and larger 2 stroke scooters are much less effected with these issues, presumably because of the greater volume of gases being swept out.
Yes, it's a a bit of a pain to keep the scooter supplied with a premium oil and it does add to the cost of operating a bit, but it's small price to pay to ride the only 50cc scooters that are truly fun.

Hey thanks for the excellent info motomech! Based on what you've said, I'm gonna hold off getting my non-restricted exhaust until I've run out this Valvoline 2 stroke oil. I've got 600 clicks on her now so should be through this oil at around 1000 or so. When I get my new pipe, I'll switch to the Bel-Ray oil.

Would you drain out what little is left of the Valvoline before changing brands, or just wait till the oil light comes on and pour the new stuff in on top?

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread sugonaut.

[lbo]

I have used Bel-Ray Si-7 since mile one on my scooter, no problems and it was recommeded by the dealer.

[Karl]

I like Motul 800 synthetic. I use it in my dirt bike and usually have a lot of premix left over that goes in my scoot.

For my wife's scoot I scored a deal on 10 quarts of Bardahl racing synthetic injector/premix oil. I think it was Rocky Mountain ATV.com had it for $3 per quart. I'd never used it before but it burns really clean and little to no smoke.

[jtl]

Is there any advantage or disadvantage to periodically using Sea Foam in a 2 stroke engine? I occasionally run a can through my car engine.

[kaintuckdave]

Hey jtl, I ran it through like my second and third tankfulls. My scoot was a new old stock 2006 model so the test gas at the factory probably set in there for all that time. It really helped things out. Remember on a 2 stroke it's double dose, I think 2 ounces per gallon of gas.

[sugonaut]

I use Sea Foam every 3rd/4th tank now. Use 1 - 2 ounces per gallon.

[jtl]

Any suggestions on what brand and weight of gear lube to use? I have some Mobil 1 75-90 will this be acceptable. It appears the dealer used 70-90 in the past but no reference to brand.

[Karl]

That's the best stuff right there. I've used it for years now. You can't go wrong with synthetic and it's only about $3 more than the non-synthetic and one bottle will last for many gear oil changes.

Karl

[derrik]

i grew up around nothing but 2-strokes and my garage is full of them.
i used to run golden spectro,didnt really have any oil related problems....but i wont run anything but maxima,amsoil or on occasion if i cant find any of the above klotz.

i cant stand yamalube,quite a few people i know claim it to be recycled oil but i have no proof.....and i dont really care i just wont run it.

the absolute best place to buy oil is a dirtbike shop.
i wouldnt buy oil from a scooter shop unless he carrys the oil i run.