passing a 150 or 125cc for a 50cc?

[mosfro]

hi everyone, I'm new to the forum, but not that new to scoots

had a qingqi 2 stroke 50cc for a couple of years (yeah years ~ not too many km though)

that was when i lived in the midwest, i am now a city dweller (DC), and thinking about getting a vino 125, or maybe a 150cc (lance or roketa) clone; i can wrench enough to get by.

The main reason for me getting the scoot this time is to be able to ride my wife with me downtown (combined weight ~ 300lb), and still be able to park wherever I please, and not need to worry about insurance or registration...

My question for you folks out there, is do you think I could pass a vino 125 as a vino classic, by either getting badges or stickers that say "50cc" or "49cc" on them? this way i could ride it without it being considered a real motorcycle?

for the record, i will have a motorcycle endorsement, so as far as safety goes, I can ride with her behind me, and we did it on the old 2-stroke all the time.

I also understand that some states have a nice catch-22: 50cc and under dont require reg/license/ins, but you can't ride 2-up.
so ignoring that caveat, what do you guys think?

[mustang64]

The only outwardly noticeable difference between the classic and the 125 is the front disc brake, so it's unlikely the average officer of the law will be able to tell. Having said that, I would rather be legal and not worry about getting caught in a lie. It could end up costing you more in the long run, even if it is unlikely. As far as insurance is concerned, on motorbike I wouldn't want to ride without it. It not only covers the cost of repairs, it covers medical expense in the event of injury.

[scooterollie]

The Vino 125 is a great scoot. I don't think you can go wrong with that one for your stated purpose. However, be legal about it. It is just plain wrong not to have the permit and insurance! No only do you put yourself and your passenger in legal jeopardy but also anyone else involved in an accident of your cause. Having been hit head-on by a drunk driver w/suspended permit, no insurance, driving a borrowed car w/o insurance that had tags from another vehicle - I know what is involved!

[hillbilly]

Whether you decide to register the scoot deals more with your personal inclinations and desire for peace of mind. I personally would be embarassed to be ticketed while riding an unregistered machine with a passenger. If you don't get caught you can save a couple bucks I guess, but if you are ticketed and fined it will end up being more expensive than registration.

The thing that should really not seem like just an option is liability insurance. The insurance company doesn't care what stickers the scoot may or may not have on it, they just need to know that it is a vino 125 and what the vin# is. Whether you want comprehensive insurance coverage on a vehicle you own is up to you but liability insurance is an absolute necessity.

[Aprilia]

I would have to agree with the others. Stick to being legal. OR Get a 50cc scoot that you can legally park on the sidewalk. There are a few out there that can handle a 300+ load and still go the speed limit with ease.
Cough... shameless **plug for Aprilias**

[mosfro]

i feel the need to apologize for some that I have alarmed
I would for sure get insurance, as I recall, tags aren't required for insurance, and unlike some, i ALWAYS wear a helmet

but thanks to all for the suggestions, the vino 125 looks like it would do well, i mean my commute is basically 8 miles round trip, and it would cost me less to make monthly payments on a vino +gas, then it would to use PUBLIC transportation!

It's not that I am a rebel, trying to save a few bucks, its really an issue of parking since all parking is on the street (2 hour limit meters) or underground, which would really take all the convenience away from riding the scooter...

I did try out a brand new zuma, which has a 2-up seat (was not aware of it), but we would exceed the max load, albeit for a few miles only, and I've read on this forum of people >300# riding around on Mets for thousands of miles!

I just dont think an (unmodifed) zuma would cut it....even though all the streets around here are 25mph.

so to clarify, my issue is not to save a few bucks my parking in bike racks or on lightpole....its actually physically being able to FIND parking, and I would be fully insured

so the Aprilias are kinda expensive, but any other suggestions? Am I right to say the Zuma woud be iffy?

[slowscootin07]

well if you get insurance and they have the vin on file, then they'll know it's NOT a 50cc. Also if you do get into an accident and you are riding without the classification needed for the 150 in disguise, then they could CANCEL you on the spot and not pay the claim due to false representation. Sorry to say this, but it really aggrivates me when I read about people trying to cheat the system. If you accidently hit someone's child that runs out in front of you and your insurance won't cover it because of your "lie" then how do the bills get paid. If it were my child and this happened, you can bet your sweet arse you'd never ride a scooter again Sorry but I've been on the lying end of something similar and it just plain right makes my butt pucker thinking about someone asking about how to cheat. PS my old Honda Aero 50 used to take 2 up all the time at 30-35 mph

[hillbilly]

mosfro, for two the zuma is definitely iffy. You may be missing a bet by not having the lady ride her own scoot. Seriously, two scoots is way more fun and versatile than one. Even my big motorcycles are more comfortable and roomy when not carrying a passenger. She would probably love the freedom it would provide the two of you to each have your own wheels available. That way you could consider getting a pair of 50cc scoots. There are a lot of choices in 50cc scoots so if you look around I think you will find that a pair of decent 50's will not cost all that much more than one vino 125.

I think as long as you have your mc endorsement and your insurance is paid up then usually the insurance company is on the hook for liability whether the vehicle is registered or not. That is the way it is around here anyway.

[Aprilia]

Agreed, the new Zumas are definitely iffy. If you got a pre '07 Zuma you would have a much better time.
Hillbilly brought up a fantastic point. I myself just got another scoot the same as mine for my Lady. We have more fun now than ever before!
Of course I went a more expensive route with another SR50R Factory, but that's just because of personal preference and wanting a stock scoot to go 55+. You could for sure get two nice 50cc scoots for the same price as one Vino 125 or a 150.

[mosfro]

whats the difference between a new 2008 zuma, and say, a 2005 zuma ? The 08 is still a 2-stroke right?
Also, any Kymco 50cc scooter than can go 25mph with 2 riders?

["Big Guy"]

Slightly different compression, 7.2:1 on the 05 and 7.0:1 on the 08, larger disc on the front brakes, but other than that, they are about the same. Oh, and yes, it is a 2-stroke.

I think any Kymco scoot can go 25 2-up. I rode the Agility and it had plenty of power.


-Rich

[Aprilia]

May 20, 2008 13:42:45 GMT -5 mosfro said:

whats the difference between a new 2008 zuma, and say, a 2005 zuma ? The 08 is still a 2-stroke right?
Also, any Kymco 50cc scooter than can go 25mph with 2 riders?

Also the major difference they started in '07 was the emissions restrictions.

As far as Kymco brands go. Yes they are all awesome. Especially the KYMCO People. De-restricted at my altitude of 7,200' they go 50+ with two people loaded up.

[willmw]

+1
for getting her a scoot. My wife only rode on the back of mine a few times before she wanted one of her own.

[Jacine]

They don't get you on the cc, they get you on the speed. If you go above 30 on a 50 then it is modified and needs to be licensed. If you intend to drive your 150 under 30 mph all the time, (and you won't) then they will not bother you.

[kaintuckdave]

The SYM 50cc's are rated to carry 576 lbs. Don't know what speed you'll be getting up hills but 25 mph on flats will be no worries. Put on an unrestricted exhaust and you'll be cool no matter what.

[rattlemeter]

May 20, 2008 19:38:40 GMT -5 mosfro said:

They don't get you on the cc, they get you on the speed. If you go above 30 on a 50 then it is modified and needs to be licensed. If you intend to drive your 150 under 30 mph all the time, (and you won't) then they will not bother you.

Jacine, if he drives anywhere, I hope it'll be on the residential/local streets where he should be able to easily keep the speed under 50 MPH (China MPH ~ 30 MPH )

[ZootScootRiot]

Would have to agree with rattlemeter! I grew up in DC, and drove my Honda 600F2 all around but it was a scary thing, and that was about 14 years ago. Now whenever I go back to visit, I'm amazed at the amount of traffic. Don't miss the traffic at all!!!!

[gy6rocket]

You could pass it off as a 50cc easily, there really is no way to tell its larger unless you tear the engine down and measure the the piston stroke and bore.

What will get you is what Jacine stated: When you have moped tags yet your doing 65mph. Thats a dead giveaway your over 50cc

[mosfro]

I spoke to a parking enforcement officer downtown where I work, and he said that usually when they see scoots parked on the sidewalk, they just ignore them, however, if they see plates on it (as required for >50cc), they will ticket it ~ $100.
So, my wife does not want her own scoot, or so she says, so for now I am looking at 50cc scoots that will do 25mph with 300-315lbs, on fairly level ground, with small hills here and there. I don't need to (or want to) go 50mph, because I will be riding residential streets, except for 6 blocks in downtown.
I'm not too worried about the traffic, because there are a lot of 50cc riders in the city, and hundreds of hardcore bicyclists that ride with car traffic too.

I would like to stay as legal as possible, it's just a parking matter, and after speaking with an officer, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

There is a dealer selling a Kymco People s50 4t for 1999....and i've seen an agility 50 for about 1400....
You guys think a people is worth 500 extra? and the 16" wheels...good or bad?

[cathouse]

I have ben passing my Roketa 150 off as a 50 for about two years . I put 50 cc decals on it. however I live in a rural area in western Ky where the cops really don't give a hoot what you drive as long as you behave youerselves.

[earlwb]

I remember reading about several riders who passed their scooters off as 50cc even though they were 125's or 150's. Some scooters make it easier, such as removing the sticker "1" on the side where it says "150" and other clever tricks.
So I guess it is up to your imagination and creativity.
But if you somehow manage to get caught, it could get expensive via all the fines.

[lancecharming]

cathouse-
Next you should try putting "50cc" stickers on a big old Harley and see if those cops buy it... ;D

[gy6rocket]

YOu can actually buy a 50cc two stroke and do a big bore up to 80cc. The Vin will say 50cc but an 80cc two stroke is fast...

[YellowScooter]

A vino 125 can be easily passed as a 50 IMO. For one, they're not that fast even though it has a bigger motor, it only goes about 45mph tops. Where it shines over the 50 would be inclines and 2up riding. The average new 50cc scoot goes about 40mph riding solo.
All really depends on your area. Some cities just don't care long as your not in their way, or acting stupid. Others have a mini-dynometer on order from Germany, for next years 'budget and are planning scooter HP checkpoints.
The way I see it, Every single scooter in this county if not the state is operating illegal as original sin. I checked several dealers from Morganton all the way to Charlotte and made many inquiries about diffrent scoots, looking for a new one, and not a single one was restricted to 30mph. Everyone of them were good for at least 38-40mph.

[indy50]

I agree with GY6rocket, got me a little 82 that cruises 50-55 all day long no prob. Plus its alot of fun tunin'. Paperwork says 49cc:)

[Bake is Back]

Mosfro, Think about what you are doing. You can always go slower on a scoot, but can not always go faster. If you get a 50cc, you might have that ever tempting urge for more speed. The vino 125 is awsome in the city. Just think before you buy, exchanging can be very costly later. And for all of us who got our license and insurance, do it right and don't screw us. We pay for the uninsured idiots pushing the limits.

[rerun2]

YellowScooter,

So the various NC constabulary are acquiring mini dyno-meters to test for HP on scooters!? WOW, that is good to know, living in NC is already a pain, guess it is just a sign of the times... Interestingly, the law on 50cc scooters states that they can not exceed 30 mph UNDER THEIR OWN POWER, on a level surface... here in Charlotte, and I KNOW you guys up in the mtns. exceed that 30 mph all the time when going down hill, regardless of the engine displacement! So, it the cops are going to the rather HUGE expense of getting dyno-meters, it would follow that they are getting whipped in the courts... the rider only has to demand of the officer that wrote him up, "please tell us if the scooter was DEMONSTRATED to exceed the legal 30 mph, when on a level surface" no cop I know of would have any way of doing a test of that nature during a traffic stop... so the argument is that the bike was going over the 30 mph, due to gravity/wind/phase of the moon... whatever, any rational judge would have to dismiss the case! The state in no way has proved its ALLEGATION that the scooter is out of legal parameters, there is NO LAW that says a 50cc scoot cannot go 50 mph, or any other speed, it just says that they cannot do that under their own power on level ground... try as we might, I don't think we can control the effects of gravity here in the US... ;d

[Asher]

Here's a different idea... go get a 150 scooter, pull off the "1" in front. Get the thing liscensed / insured properly as a 150, then just make a mount for the plate that allows you to pop off the plate when you park it and throw it inside the trunk with your helmets...

Maybe a set up like this...
Mount a 49.5cc metal plate to the back of the bike with some longer plate bolts, take your real plate and place some decent magnets on the back... Before you take off, slip the plate over the studs/49.5cc plate and the magnet should hold it in place... When you park, pop the seat, pop off your plate, put it inside your helmet and place both under the seat.. This way after a night out, you won't forget to reinstall the plate before the drive home.

this way your legal driving down the road, you can park like you want to, and everyone is happy...

Just a thought, good luck

[YellowScooter]

That would make recovery harder if it were stolen. Plus it could void the insurance too.
Wouldn't it?

[isawhim]

May 20, 2008 10:48:19 GMT -5 mosfro said:

...and not need to worry about insurance or registration...

I also understand that some states have a nice catch-22: 50cc and under don't require reg/license/ins, but you can't ride 2-up.
so ignoring that caveat, what do you guys think?

It is illegal in all 50 states, to transport another individual, without minimum insurance. (Thus the law about 50cc scooters.)

For you, it is fine if you die, or kill someone. You will be 100% guilty and libel, if you do not have insurance, even if the accident is not your fault. (That is the catch 22. You will be required to hold inch, for two years, without further accident, or you will have your license stripped immediately, in the event of any accident. All debits will be out of your pocket.)

If you bring a passenger into an uninsured vehicle, and the passenger dies... you will go to prison. Involuntary man-slaughter, no chance of release. (You are placing your passenger in danger, by failing to provide them with minimal coverage, and most states require 2-up safety classes, in order to insure a passenger on a motorcycle. You MUST have PASSANGER coverage, in addition to your own coverage. That has been in effect, ever since people started riding with kids on bikes, and kids getting killed, due to lack of coverage, and parent's inability to pay for the minimum required medical treatments, for injury. Cars already have this coverage, as they are designed for transport. Not all bikes are legal for 2-up riding. That is why you have to make a statement about how many people live in your household, to the insurance company. Each person is someone who "MAY" drive the vehicle, or be a "Passenger", and require coverage.)

Same law with PIP and LIABILITY. Only YOU are covered to drive THAT vehicle. If someone else drives your vehicle, and crashes, you can actually get sued by the person who crashed your car, for not telling them that you didn't have coverage. (That is why car-dealers require full coverage, because THEY own YOUR car, until it is paid off.)

You could not contest the person who sues you, unless you reported your car stolen by that person, prior to the accident. (Which means that you lent your vehicle to them, in the eyes of the law.)

If you do get a bigger scooter, go for the 150cc+ scooters, for two-up. Get the coverage for you and your PASSANGER. Take the two-up safety class, which your insurance may demand, before they allow you to ride two-up, and be covered.

Remember, it is YOU, ALONE, on YOUR VEHICLE, that does not NEED coverage to DRIVE. You WILL need coverage if you get into an accident. (EG, it is not illegal to drive, only illegal to crash without insurance.)