|
Post by Bear on Apr 11, 2008 23:31:39 GMT -5
Posted under general discussion is the story of my crash on my new Helix. Here I wanted to seek advice and wisdom on riding boots and whether my injuries might have been different. First a very brief recap. I was broad-sided by a cage from my right. The cage only barely hit me, and I was traveling close to 25 so down I went on to my left side. I was NOT wearing my jacket or gloves. I had just gassed up and was enjoying the nice weather so I stowed them in the trunk I got road rash on my left arm, cuts and scraps on my hands and right arm. My left thigh, knee, leg and ankle were all VERY week and sore. But my only serious injury was a fractured foot. Specifically one small clean brake in my second digit of my big toe and another small clean brake on the back of my foot wear the tendon for my big toe attaches. I was wearing 10" high side zipper quality made boots, similar to army boots. I chose them because they are extremely comfortable to walk in, waterproof, quick in and out (because of the zipper), and I figured they'd protect my ankle since they are 10" high. They were not however steel toe. I tried the same style boot with steel toe only a few weeks before and I returned them as the sides of the steel tow dug into the sides of my toes (not comfortable). With all of that background, what about riding boots or steel toe boots. Would I still have fractured my toe with steel toe boots?? Do riding boots have any armor or added protective quality that might have protected my foot better? I like the advice I've been give to dress for the slide (or something like that). So I'm just trying to figure out what I should do next. Thanks, Bear
|
|
|
Post by "Big Guy" on Apr 12, 2008 5:02:53 GMT -5
Hmm... who knows? With restrictive boots you could have broken your ankle or leg. It's always best to have leather riding boots though. Regular shoes, sneakers and non-leather boots will shave off in a slide. The key is thick leather, or Kevlar or armored clothing, some are better than others, not necessarily by price either.
|
|
|
Post by scooterlizard on Apr 13, 2008 18:08:46 GMT -5
Bear,
I have wide feet, I do wear all leather work boots(at least 8" high) with steel toes. Sears sells some nice boots for wide feet. I was wearing a pair with steel toes when the moron took my front off. I was hit from the right side as well and was wearing all the gear except gloves. The steel toes kept the shift lever from tearing my toes off. It's really going to be rider's preference as to what you want to wear to protect your feet. From my experience, something that is heavy in leather is your best bet on keeping all the little piggies where they belong.
|
|
|
Post by tortoise on Apr 14, 2008 10:38:42 GMT -5
No specific information, but a related Australian article . . attribution to 2 Stroke Buzz for the link.
|
|
|
Post by slowscootin07 on Apr 14, 2008 11:06:43 GMT -5
Steel toe boots aren't always as effective as they should be but offer greater protection than non steel toes. Drop a 10 pound weight on them and you're protected, drop a 100 pound weight and they probably won't buckle too much but may still smash your toes. drop a 300 pound scooter on them and they could cause more damage that not. I had a roommate a long time ago that hurt himself at work when an overhead pulley broke loose and the cargo dropped. It hit just right and the steel toe insert chopped 4 of his toes off. The doctor said that in this case they caused more damage than if he didn't have them on. I'm not sure if I buy that, but I did see the report stating such on his workmen's comp stuff.
|
|
|
Post by griff10 on Apr 15, 2008 4:51:34 GMT -5
Dirt bike boots "might" have helped, it's overkill though and they are a PITA to put on/take off so you likely wouldn't wear them if you had them.
What boots/shoes really need to do is cushion the very vulnerable ankle bone from the pavement. Scrape enough bone away and you'll never walk again, at least not unassisted.
Boots are also good at protecting the skin from the hot parts of the bike, road rash is bad, adding bad burns to that won't be better.
Bill H.
|
|
|
Post by vatoolman on Apr 16, 2008 9:26:25 GMT -5
These are what I ride my scoot or my bike wearing a little pricey but saved my leg from any damage when I laid my bike over on it. Tour BootsJohn
|
|
|
Post by Bear on Apr 16, 2008 13:28:40 GMT -5
vatoolman, those boots are NOT too pricey in my mind. I've spent more than that for my work boots (I'm an electrician). My father taught me at a young age that it pays to buy quality boots and tools.
I like the way those boots look too.
As far as the protection my boots did give, well my ankle and foot are clean of road rash. I believe that I did twist my ankle, but I don't think any boot could have prevented that.
I suppose the only thing I'm really curious about with steel toe (or composite toe) boots is does it hurt to kick something really really hard??
What I'm getting at is if I kick a brick wall (or the pavement when I go down) with my non steel toe boots it will hurt some. But with steel toe, does your toe slam the inside of of the steel and hurt you more than without.
A steel toe protects your foot from a crushing weight on your toe, without question. But I keep thinking that my foot or toe would jam up against the inside of the steel toe worse than without.
If anyone has an opinion on that I'd appreciate it. I'm planning get myself new boots when my doc allows me to remove this goofy inflatable boot that I have to wear over my broken foot.
Thanks,
Bear
|
|
|
Post by rattlemeter on Apr 16, 2008 14:22:56 GMT -5
Bear, I mentioned something about steel toes in your crash thread, so this just follows up on that. NO! The steel toed shoes should never hurt your feet, even when kicking the smug out of a Harley rider. If they hurt your toes, you bought the wrong size and/or style. I'm very happy with my Caterpillar brand boots. They and a pair of Doc Martins that I wore out are the most comfortable safety shoes I've had. The toe compartment does not impinge upon even my really wide feet. Definitely buy your boots in-person and not on the web to ensure the fit is right. www.catfootwear.com/Shop/Gallery.aspx?NavID=M-WRKFor 2-wheeling, I'd probably go for something like the "Logger 9 inch steel toe" as they're a little taller than what I have already. www.catfootwear.com/Shop/Detail.aspx?NavID=M-WRK&PID=6536(I don't have any financial interest in Cat, just sharing my experience).
|
|
|
Post by Bear on Apr 16, 2008 15:38:03 GMT -5
Thanks Rattlemeter I did see your comment under my original crash post. I guess I was soliciting other opinions. But reading your comment 'categorically state' the effectiveness of steel toe has bolstered my opinion of steel toe boots.
And you are sooooo right about trying them in person.
The boots I'm wearing are Converse tactical zipper boots. I spotted them online but could not find them anywhere to try. I figured being converse they'd be comfy from the start. So I went to Sears.
Sears has them online, but not in store. It seems that if you go in store you can order things like boots and they'll be shipped to your door for free. If your not happy with the feel you can then return them to the store for a full refund. I did that twice before I found the right combo of style and size.
It seemed a little abusive to the system. But Sears would rather I do that than to lose me to some online seller altogether.
I'm going to have to look at Sears steel toe selection Next.
Bear
|
|
|
Post by scooterlizard on Apr 16, 2008 17:08:53 GMT -5
Bear,
I operate heavy equipment, I wear the Sears brand boots with the steel toes. They have saved my toes many times. One pair lasted me 5 years. I wear a half size bigger than I what normally wear. It is better to try them on in person then you will know for sure you have the right boot to wear.
|
|
|
Post by vatoolman on Apr 16, 2008 19:09:27 GMT -5
Bear I know what you mean about the tools I manage a tool store and know quality. Before I replaced my Cat steel toe boots with those I shopped around and tried them on at a dealership. Check out your local motorcycle shops when you can if they have a parts department they'll usually have accessories and all kinds of boots steel toe or not. The ultimate decision should come down to comfort and as many safety features as possible with out compromising that comfort.
john
|
|
|
Post by Dennis D on Apr 23, 2008 21:49:48 GMT -5
Bear, From my experience, something that is heavy in leather is your best bet on keeping all the little piggies where they belong. This has to apply to boots as well as clothing... I saw results of a test that compared heavy duty denim, abrasion resistant fabric used in motorcycle safety gear(but not the armor), and leather. Denim - 4 feet to wear through Safety gear fabric - 16 feet Leather - 80 feet Someones probably come up with a slightly better fabric since then, but leather can't be beat. My mind's not made up about steel toes... there are horror stories out there that go both ways.
|
|
|
Post by rattlemeter on Apr 23, 2008 21:55:54 GMT -5
Dennis, I agree about the horror stories, but in my experience (limited, thankfully), most things catastrophic enough to crush the toe compartment such that it "shears your toes off" would have made mush out of them without the steel toes. Metatarsal (basically the top of the foot) protection takes the safety a bit further, but the doomsayers would have you know that then something that would have only sheared one toe will now crush your entire foot. Maybe true, but there is a practical limit to foot protection.
IMO, basic safety shoes/boots are a good idea that greatly decreases your foot injury risk in common accidents.
|
|
|
Post by vonspyder on Apr 23, 2008 22:23:14 GMT -5
I always wear my thick leather jacket with safety vest (as lets face it scooters are even less noticable by cage's than bikes) and either my leather army dress shoes (NOTHING can break that leather, lord knows ive tried) or my steel toe georgia boots. i can take a scrape, but im not breaking for anyone.
|
|
|
Post by motomech on Apr 24, 2008 0:41:55 GMT -5
Well, I guess a guy could wear Lil' Abner boots on a scooter and not have the problems a motorcycle rider has with steel toes, lugged tread and blocked heels. Another scooter advantage ;D
I have a nice pair of AlpineStars that I hardly ever wear. They are halfway to dirt rider boots and a pain to walk in. I suppose that real foot protection still means hard, stiff boots. And, when you live in a tropical beach town where it's always 90 deg. plus, putting on the right gear all the time really becomes hard to do. Still, I pride myself on wearing more than the locals do, but this thread reminds me that I have to do something better than sneakers.
Actually, I'm anal about long pants and gloves. My legs are scary white for a resident and I won't go around the block without the gloves(admittedly, I cut the finger-tips out). I use a fabric enduro jacket about 90% of the time, or when I can soak it in water(I carry water bottles for this). I have a mesh jacket, but it's too hot for that as well. So, I am kind of the opposite of what Bear was wearing and I think his choice of foot wear was reasonable and one would think he would have been worse off without them.
I suspose that those of you that live north of the Mason-Dixon line are having a hard time "feeling my pain" after this last winter.
|
|
|
Post by griff10 on Apr 24, 2008 0:51:31 GMT -5
Bear, From my experience, something that is heavy in leather is your best bet on keeping all the little piggies where they belong. This has to apply to boots as well as clothing... I saw results of a test that compared heavy duty denim, abrasion resistant fabric used in motorcycle safety gear(but not the armor), and leather. Denim - 4 feet to wear through Safety gear fabric - 16 feet Leather - 80 feet Someones probably come up with a slightly better fabric since then, but leather can't be beat. My mind's not made up about steel toes... there are horror stories out there that go both ways. Assuming your talking leather garmets designed for riding, the leather is rather heavy, once the outside temps are over about 80 degrees it's so hot most people will never think about wearing it. Yes it provides wonderful wear resistance in a crash, but you gotta have it on for it to work One thing not seen often is that most fabric riding wear now days has built in armor and that increases it's Resistance to wearing down while sliding on pavement considerably. I've got a Joe Rocket mesh jacket, in black, that's actually cooler to wear (due to it keeping the direct sun off your skin) than just wearing a T shirt and provides a heck of alot more protection than a T shirt too. The advantage of leather is that it'll survive more than once crash, fabric riding wear is a one shot deal, you go down it'll help save you skin, but it'll be destroyed doing it. How much that matters is up to you. Bill H.
|
|
|
Post by benrama on Jun 15, 2008 18:02:00 GMT -5
I wore steel toe boots and shoes for ten years and used the steel toes many times. As someone mentioned, try on the shoes first; all toe caps are not the same, and some can squish your toes during regular wear.
Properly fitted steel toes will not hurt at all from a regular kick to a wall or a hammer blow. Improperly fitted ones will make your toes hurt.
From your story, it sounds like steel toes would have helped your second toe, but the back of your foot wouldn't have been helped (unless the breaking impact came from the toe area and shot through the foot).
I think any impact great enough to negate the steel toe is going to hurt just as much without the steel toe. Kind of like an impact hard enough to make a helmet useless, it's not gonna be any better without the gear.
Also, if you like the HighTac style, they make real HighTacs with steel toes and zipper sides. Alot of servicemen and women buy boots other than GI, and there's a pretty large market out there.
|
|
|
Post by russjac2000 on Jun 15, 2008 18:28:53 GMT -5
|
|