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Post by vinorider on Mar 8, 2008 22:15:39 GMT -5
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Post by earlwb on Mar 9, 2008 11:10:13 GMT -5
Wow, what the heck was wrong with the truck driver? He didn't even bother to slow down a little to wait for the scooter rider to make that left lane change.
Definitely gross, if you are squeamish or eating, do not watch.
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Post by kilted1 on Mar 10, 2008 18:18:10 GMT -5
That is completely insane,.......
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Post by xmirage2kx on Mar 20, 2008 8:59:51 GMT -5
DANG! he didn't have a chance.
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Post by yarddogbbq on Mar 24, 2008 12:36:55 GMT -5
remember bikes can often stop quicker than what is behind you, we got to be smart like a fox with the crazy drivers out there.........that was quick. like i mean damn!
when someone change lanes to the right and almost hits you remember that mirror on the right that states "objects in mirror are closer than they appear" or something simular to that statement.
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Post by howardr on Apr 7, 2008 21:08:11 GMT -5
Definitely demonstrates the importance of watching in the rear view mirror. I don't think the poor guy ever saw it coming. Tragic  |
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Post by scootingranny on Apr 8, 2008 17:56:58 GMT -5
I've watched this a couple of times--not because I like gore but because I want to learn in order to know the risks/situations of scooter riding and also to maybe learn from the experiences of others. This one was really tragic and just gives me the shivers. I think that possibly scoot riders in other countries (China, Viet Nam, India, etc) are used to vehicles driving right on their tails and don't think much of it, but this truck was WAY too close. And if you look at the truck, the window on the cab is really high up. I wonder if the driver, looking forward and at traffic higher than the scoot, ever even saw it. The scoot driver couldn't safely change lanes to his left because even a head check would not have been adequate to see what was in the next lane, his vehicle may not have had the power to speed up any more, he may not have realized how much danger he was in, maybe moving from the right side of the lane to the left was his way of trying to get out of the "danger zone"....and on and on and on. It's just sad.
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Post by abscooters on Apr 10, 2008 13:10:46 GMT -5
That is just disturbing |
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Post by isawhim on Apr 10, 2008 14:04:59 GMT -5
Sorry, that was a stupid scooter move. I feel sorry for that trucker. He probably got charged with involuntary murder, if they didn't see that tape.
What happened was this...
1. The trucker possibly saw the scooter driver on the scooter-lane (Right hand side.)
2. The trucker, approaching a forward only lane, near a curve, looks back ahead, since the scooterist is on the side.
3. The scooter driver, for some stupid reason, decides to pull out in front of the truck, to reach an inside lane, crossing a solid white line (No pass zone). Obviously, not even a head motion, to indicate a mirror check. Or a legitimate head-turn to see who is in the lane to the left. (A head turn would have seen the truck on the left hand side.)
4. The scooterist pulls in front of the truck, under the hood-view, and then starts to slow down to head into the turn, from the opposite, no-pass, forward only, lane. (Truckers can not see the area that the scooterist pulled into. At most, the trucker would have seen a peripheral view of the top of the helmet, passing from right to left at the bottom of his dash-board. While he was looking ahead at the turn area coming up. Even though he was in the forward only lane, it is a complex intersection. Obviously, that is why the camera is there.)
5. As a result of poor timing, and unsafe driving on the scooterists part, the slowing scooter was bumped by the steady moving truck. Momentum flung the turning scooter out of the way, as the driver separated, and did not clear the tires of the truck.
The reason I say that I feel sorry for the trucker, is because of the universal law. "It is the fault of the rear driver, for hitting a vehicle from the rear. This is a sign of following too close." However, because of this tape, I hope, the rear driver should have been resolved of this ruling.
Not that the scooterist or the driver will feel any better. But the trucker should not have to live with a murder or even man-slaughter, for something that was not his fault.
No, there is no possible way that he could have slowed down in time to save that scooterists life. The law states that there must be a safe distance to pull-out in front of someone on a lane change. That distance of less than one car-length was NOT safe.
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Post by "Big Guy" on Apr 10, 2008 14:25:08 GMT -5
Watch it again, you're completely wrong, the scooter is in front of the truck the entire time, there is no solid white line until he starts to move left, where the line changes to a broken white line and the driver of the truck was following too close... period.
You watched a different video than I did. Where I come from, if you hit someone in the rear for ANY reason, you are at fault. To say that you feel sorry for the truck driver is just ridiculous...
-Rich
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Post by scootingranny on Apr 10, 2008 19:48:23 GMT -5
I am sorry if my posting was misinterpreted or if I didn't express myself adequately. I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THE TRUCK DRIVER. I'm only saying that the scooter was so low in front of the truck that MAYBE the driver didn't even see him. I reread my posting and still don't see where it indicates I felt sorry for the truck driver.
The truck driver was at fault, no question at all. I apologize to all if my posting wasn't clear on that. I'm just trying to learn and I guess maybe this isn't the forum or place for learning or at least not for my apparently sophomoric postings.
Guess I learned one thing at this forum, huh?
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Post by "Big Guy" on Apr 12, 2008 4:50:46 GMT -5
Sorry, that was a stupid scooter move. I feel sorry for that trucker. He probably got charged with involuntary murder, if they didn't see that tape. If he didn't see him, he had to be blind. No need to apologize, just my opinion! It wasn't you I was talking to.  |
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Post by Asher on Apr 13, 2008 17:29:25 GMT -5
Actually guys if you take a look at the very first few seconds, the scooter is basically on the line/shoulder of the road. The truck got to the left side of the lane to pass him and was probably coming up slightly faster... Then the scooter pulled out to the center and slowed down to make a left turn... The truck driver then tried to drift right to aviod him and couldn't... I drive a big truck for a living, that are is a one of the worst blind spots I have on my truck... The truck didn't stop to fast because of the air brake system, even thought they are a very powerful system, they have a decent amount of delay time when panic braking...
the truck shouldn't have passed in that area, but the rider never knew the truck was there... there is fault for both parties, but I would have to learn towards an illegal lane change on the scoot was the starting cause of the accident...
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Post by isawhim on Apr 13, 2008 22:06:33 GMT -5
 The area where the scooterist was traveling, was in the solid white line portion. That whole lane is "Forward only". The turn lane starts way off the screen. (Solid white line = No passing = No lane-switching. It is solid, as a virtual wall. You are not supposed to cross that line, once you are in that lane. You are also not allowed to switch lanes at an intersection, street-light. "Y" forks, are an intersection.) The scooterist was hit where the dotted line starts. (That is NOT a passing line, that is a line painted as a guide for the cars that are turning, in the turn lane, as it crosses an intersection. The intersection is a "Y", traffic splits, and only the two left lanes can turn. The right lane MUST go forward. The center lane can go forward or turn. The scooterist was not in the forward-only lane. He stupidly tried to jump lanes, to get into the center lane, to turm, when it was illegal, and unsafe to do so. It was stupid, because there was plenty of time to get into that lane, before he approached the intersection.) (The markings on the ground are forward-only arrows and turn-only arrows. They are both in the furthest corner of the video, 10 cars away from the turn-guide lines. You can ONLY turn from those two lanes, which you MUST be in, before you get to the solid white no-passing line. It is not legal to drive past the solid line, then turn from that forward-only lane in the intersection. He would have been hit by the cars in the other lane, making that turn.) Cab-over-engine trucks have a horrible view. There is a diffrence between being hit from behind, and jumping out in front of a vehicle and stopping, while trying to make an illegal turn. The scooterist, if he looked, would have seen the truck, should have stopped, then attempted to cross. He should never have been on the right hand side, in the forward-only lane, which started over 10 car-lengths back. Even bicycles HAVE to get into that lane, or HAVE to wait for safe passage from a shoulder.  The blue marks the FOUR arrows on the lane that indicate forward only. (I made the large white ones on the end, to show the lane marks.) The yelow solid line indicates the road paths, for the two original lanes. (I did not indicate the third turn-only lane, as it was not pertinant to the situation.) The red line shows the scooterists path. Notice the darker line which indicates the middle of the road. The scooterist comes from the side, cuts across diagonally, near the third arrow, and has just touched the dotted line, past the stopping line. (The intersection.) As he was on the side, the truck moved over, the scooter pulled in front of the truck, to the middle, instead of staying on the side. The truck would have been clear of the scooterist if he stayed on the side, however, the scooterist darts diagonally across the road, heading towards the turn lane, and slowing down at the same time. (How was that a safe and legal move?) At the last second, the trucker tried to pull back into his lane, and could not get out of the way from the scooter that was slowing down, in front of him. (He would have keep beeing driven into the turn lane by the slowing scooterist, hitting more cars.) The green cross indicates the point at which the scooter was actually hit. 3 feet into the intersection, while the scooterist blissfully putted along, and slowed down while cutting diagonally across the road, in front of a truck. Naturally, the bike momentum kept it going to the left, the direction it was headed. Which stopped it from getting run-over too. The scooterist, since he was at a slight angle, and was knocked back and sideways. The green arrow indicates the direction the victem was dragged. (The victem never even made it into the other lane. The bike was hit and seporated from driver, just before the line was reached.) You can keep telling yourself it is the truckers fault, and mock me because I feel otherwise. I have learned from that video, and others should too. (Ok, they could have left out the actual gore.) What do you learn from that? Don't attempt to make a left hand turn from a right hand lane, when that right hand lane says you must go forward. Get into your turn-lane (Center or Left), where it is indicated to do so. If you can not make it to your lane, where it is safely posted, (Indicated by "signs" and/or lack of the "No-Passing Line" or a "Passing line".), then stop, and wait until it is safe to cross at the location you are at. Also, Do not pull out in front of a truck and slow down. They may not see you, and even if they can, they can NOT slow down as fast as you can. That is like an elephant chasing a fly. If the fly stops while only inches away from the front of the elephant... The last thing that will go through the flys mind, is his ass, as the stopped fly gets hit by the elephant that tried to stop. |
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Post by "Big Guy" on Apr 13, 2008 22:42:43 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't see it that way, I see the scooter in the middle of the lane, the truck running up his rear and actually crossing the solid white line, and what looks to be the scooter trying to move out of the way to the left. I don't see the scooter anywhere near the side of the road...
-Rich
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Post by "Big Guy" on Apr 13, 2008 23:41:20 GMT -5
p.s., In my neck of the woods, it matters not where you are in the lane, you own the entire lane, front and back, and any truck driver that thinks he can get that close to a vehicle in front of him and not have a wreck is doomed from the start and is a menace to the road.
I also realize that 99% of all truck accidents (or is it 98%?) are caused by other vehicles, but not in this case.
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Post by ireland2004 on Apr 14, 2008 19:38:02 GMT -5
Big Guy's right, check the vid, I'm on my tenth time watching, not for any inappropriate reasons, but simply to see the entire picture,and at all angles/views. DO NOT try to complicate things! There isn't a seperate bike/ scooter lane, look close. The scooterist was riding oddly, swerving from the right side to the left, but in no way does that mean that the driver behind can speed up and possibly try to pass on the right hand side. This appears to be what was going on, the driver of the truck sped up and was attempting a pass to the right, or was not paying attention to the slower scoot. If I am riding in the right third of my lane, and I decide to switch to the left third, I may do so at my choosing and for any reason, although it may seem as if I'm changing lanes, which again, could be exactly what happened here. Scooterist moved, appearing almost as if changing lanes, and driver behind mistakenly sped up, assuming scoot was out of the way.
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Post by ireland2004 on Apr 14, 2008 19:43:38 GMT -5
I do, however feel sorry for the truck driver, not because it wasn't his fault, because after reviewing the video many times(total maybe 12-15 views) it clearly was. I feel sorry for the guy because no matter what, he lives having to know/ remember what happened. I couldn't imagine seeing the sight in person.
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Post by isawhim on Apr 16, 2008 23:39:27 GMT -5
"Scooter lane" is the right hand side of the road, aka curb-line. 50cc scooters have to ride there, so that cars may safely pass them.
I did not take the first few seconds of the video, only the portion where the scooter travels, in three seconds, from the far right, cuts in front, and gets clipped. (That was not drifting from right to left, he was going into that turn.)
The image, showing the path, does not show him drifting. (The speed there was less then 35 MPH, and the cars in the two turn lanes, were passing the truck. Which shows that the truck was slowing down, not speeding up.)
The scooter goes from being three car lengths ahead, on the right, to impact on the left, while the truck was still slowing down. The scooter was slowing down faster.
Please don't keep watching the video... If you didn't see it the first time, you will never see it. What you saw the first time, is what you will always see. Unless you actually dissect it frame by frame, and put down markers.
The question is... did you learn anything... from the sound of it... No...
You are telling me that you learned that you are god, own the road, and that trucker simply decided to run over a crazy driving scooter that day.
Resolution... don't drive crazy, and truckers won't squish you.
I hope some poor kid on a bike never decides to cross the road in front of you, on your scooter. I'd hate to have to watch that video, trying to defend you.
(Note: If the scooter was not a 50cc, it would have been in the turn-lane or in the no-turn-lane, not on the side, trying to make a left-hand-turn from the no-turning lane.)
(Note: I am also not saying that you are wrong for having a perception. I just have a different perception, because I have analysed the video, frame by frame, and recreated the path in 2D and 3D, not just by hitting replay.)
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Post by Icehawk on Apr 17, 2008 13:07:46 GMT -5
I only watched the inline vid (do NOT want to see death) and I have to agree with isawhim - the scooterist looks to be at fault. It looks to me like they drifted across the lane and possibly slowed going into the upcoming turn - the truck driver may have been able to see them but the distance the scooter gave him upon crossing over was WAY too small if the scooter was planning on doing anything but accelerate in a straight line IMO. Even if that was the plan I would never try overtaking from the right side of the lane like that cutting across - I'm sorry but moves like what I see are how you end up in a body bag.
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Post by slowscootin07 on Apr 17, 2008 15:26:40 GMT -5
It really doesn't matter whose fault it was really because the end result was the same, the scooterist died. Did you also notice before this happened the car in the middle TURN lane continued straight instead of turning? Also did you notice the truck in the same turn lane as the car, cut over to the right(screenright) turn lane. A little further back, the truck that hit the rider crossed the solid line and looks like it was attempting to correct itself, but too late. Maybe the truck was trying to shift lanes like the rest of those idiots, saw the scooter, adjusted it's heading, but was too late. That intersection looks like a disaster waiting to happen and probably why it's being taped. The scooterist was wrong in posturing that he/she was going to do a lane change illegally like the others and the truck driver was wrong too by passing on the right in a single lane. Unless of course there are lane sharing laws that apply here.
I saw all of this in seeing the video just once. The more I watch it, the more I see that they're all driving irresponsibly except for the scooterist and that could also be questionable. By the way, that truck was bearing down on him real fast if you look close enough. Was it because of the scooter slowing down quickly, or just plain right negligence on the trucker's part? I say it's 50/50 on this one.
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Post by ireland2004 on Apr 17, 2008 16:56:37 GMT -5
End result from less-than-needed attention from all involved- dead scooterist. Remember that.
Plus-look at all the people that left the scene... All the cars in the right-hand side of the screen slow down, but still keep moving, and some speed back up. So much for witnesses, or help if it had been needed.
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Post by thornvilleloboy on May 4, 2008 5:51:08 GMT -5
To make people more aware 18 wheelers when loaded can weigh up to 80 thousand pounds ! It takes a long time to come to a stop ! And there are a lot of blind spots around trucks too! Best bet get away from them as fast as you can , they can't react as fast as cars ! Sometimes drivers of trucks get tired from long hours behind the wheel and become numb to what is going on around them ! Has any one been on a long trip and can't remember 10 miles or so on the freeway , it happens !  |
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Post by ty on May 25, 2008 14:02:10 GMT -5
Definitely one of the more disturbing things I've seen in a while. And yes, no matter how much this video is analyzed, the end result is the same.
Not that there was much that could be done for the scooterist, I too was surprised at how the traffic just kept rolling along.
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Post by gy6rocket on May 25, 2008 14:52:52 GMT -5
Looks like an off-ramp from a freeway onto a surface street, starts as one lane but widens and forks off to different directions. You can also see the on-ramp to the right. This would explain the speed of the traffic, and why the traffic was weaving, selecting which direction they wanted to go. I do believe the scooterist is mostly at fault here, and he paid the ultimate riding price. He was riding the right hand shoulder at the start, which means the bike was probably small displacement and slower, having no business on the freeway to begin with. All the traffic seems to be operating at a higher speed than the scoot was going. The truck driver saw the scoot because he started to move over left to make some elbow room for the biker. When the truck started to move left to open up some room for the scoot, the scoot driver decided to suddenly, without looking, lean into a left hand lane change from the shoulder. The truck driver probably saw this coming before it even happened, and tried to counter steer right but was unable to avoid clipping the bike. The truck driver knew he hit the bike as soon as it happened and panicked, slamming on the air brakes as evident by the rear tires of the trailer locking up and dragging the rider.
Fatal accidents are a part of riding with traffic. This cyclist pulled all the wrong moves with little awareness of what was going on behind him. Most likely an un-endorsed, inexperienced rider. I feel bad for everyone involved, even the witnesses as this accident was morbid.
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Post by pmperry on Jun 7, 2008 21:13:54 GMT -5
Sorry, that was a stupid scooter move. I feel sorry for that trucker. He probably got charged with involuntary murder, if they didn't see that tape. What happened was this... 1. The trucker possibly saw the scooter driver on the scooter-lane (Right hand side.) 2. The trucker, approaching a forward only lane, near a curve, looks back ahead, since the scooterist is on the side. 3. The scooter driver, for some stupid reason, decides to pull out in front of the truck, to reach an inside lane, crossing a solid white line (No pass zone). Obviously, not even a head motion, to indicate a mirror check. Or a legitimate head-turn to see who is in the lane to the left. (A head turn would have seen the truck on the left hand side.) 4. The scooterist pulls in front of the truck, under the hood-view, and then starts to slow down to head into the turn, from the opposite, no-pass, forward only, lane. (Truckers can not see the area that the scooterist pulled into. At most, the trucker would have seen a peripheral view of the top of the helmet, passing from right to left at the bottom of his dash-board. While he was looking ahead at the turn area coming up. Even though he was in the forward only lane, it is a complex intersection. Obviously, that is why the camera is there.) 5. As a result of poor timing, and unsafe driving on the scooterists part, the slowing scooter was bumped by the steady moving truck. Momentum flung the turning scooter out of the way, as the driver separated, and did not clear the tires of the truck. The reason I say that I feel sorry for the trucker, is because of the universal law. "It is the fault of the rear driver, for hitting a vehicle from the rear. This is a sign of following too close." However, because of this tape, I hope, the rear driver should have been resolved of this ruling. Not that the scooterist or the driver will feel any better. But the trucker should not have to live with a murder or even man-slaughter, for something that was not his fault. No, there is no possible way that he could have slowed down in time to save that scooterists life. The law states that there must be a safe distance to pull-out in front of someone on a lane change. That distance of less than one car-length was NOT safe. I agree, the scooterist was in front of the truck the whole time but I also wanted to add that the law isn't as cut and dried like that... If you enter the lane and get hit in the rear end, as a result of your lane change, you will get a ticket in most states and that incident will automatically become your fault. |
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Post by maverick on Jun 10, 2008 18:01:00 GMT -5
That video made me sick to my stomach and weak in the knees. It also has me wondering if I should get a scoot or not...
I'm hoping that by sticking to secondary less traveled roads (drive my 150cc scoot like it was a 50cc), I can avoid such a situation all together. Hopefully I don't become complacent riding over time, and I will always have a little fear to keep me alert...
I feel sorry for the the rider, truck driver, and their family's...
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Post by benrama on Jun 11, 2008 1:44:14 GMT -5
This video flashes through my mind every time I see any kind of truck in my mirrors. It makes me think Visibility with a capital V..
Scooter Vs. Anything is a losing proposition for the rider. A friend of mine died on a motorcycle last week on US19 when a car pulled in front of him (across 3 lanes of highway). She "didn't see him."
We have to ride like we're invisible beause at least half the time, we are.
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Post by premtech on Jun 14, 2008 0:55:08 GMT -5
One thing is really clear - - truck verses scooter - - truck wins!
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Post by gottascoot on Jun 28, 2008 22:11:23 GMT -5
this was stone cold,we all need to enjoy life every day and tell our families how much we love them. I know of a race car driver that has set track records and raced in the US and over-seas he got hit by a delivery truck while at the Sebring race track in Fla. while on a bicycle in between shops. They dont hold court in a graveyard,when its my time to go I dont want to suffer. Jesus, take me Quick----ENJOY EVERY DAY !!!
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