Is there a safer ride?

[Leader]

Are any motorcycles or scooters safer than others?

We all know that the typical "rice rocket" is what young lemmings ride to their attempted or actual demise. The story there is too much power and too little experience. That is not what this question is about.

I've become interested in the BMW F650GS. It's a dual sport, so it is set up for street riding, but can handle dirt roads. (the Dakar ver is reportedly better in the dirt than on the street). This model's suspension has anti-dive geometry, and is available with ABS breaking. Many riders report near misses with animals (usually deer) in which they feel another bike would have landed them in the woods instead of stopped without sliding inches from the target.

Do things like ABS and high tech suspensions save lives?

[Charlie]

I ride a Beamer as my road bike. I am sure the ABS works well and will save you road rash or worse. The high tech suspension will give you a great ride and transfer weight effectively. But an accident is still going to throw you from the bike or at the least mess up your brand new boots and cause you to sing soprano for a while. Road attire is essential to your well being. A helmet is a must though I admit that I don't always wear one when riding close to home.

[Dennis D]

I think they can help... but just like safety gear you wear, they're not going to help if you're trusting your life to them. The only thing you can trust your life to is the computer between your ears. That's the most important piece of safety gear you'll ever have, IF you put the right programming in! And that means anticipate the improbable, know your machine and what you can/can't do with it. Train your responses so a panic response doesn't kill you. practice practice practice! I believe it's a grave error to feel so protected by our equipment that we forget the most important piece of safety equipment is a well trained brain.

[Leader]

Charlie, Are the roads more soft and fluffy near home?

I've been riding for a few years, but I'm taking the basic motorcycle course in Boston in March. Anyone want to join Dillon and me?

[Dennis D]

leaderdmd said:

I've been riding for a few years, but I'm taking the basic motorcycle course in Boston in March.

That's great, I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it. Courses here weren't set up yet when I used to ride in a past life... Now I'm riding scooters. More fun and it eliminates thinking about things like shift points, and the proper gear to be in for possible problem situations spotted up ahead, possibility of missing a critical shift when situations suddenly arise, etc.

I have no desire to go back to riding a shifty, and they provide the motorcycles for the BRC here(no scooters available), but they said I can bring my scoot and take the ERC they offer here, so I'm going to take that this spring. Before I sign up, I'll check with them again and see if I get a different answer on bringing my own bike for the BRC, but the last person I talked to told me that there was enough focus on the proper time, speed, place, and technique for shifting that they didn't believe a scooter would fit into the class well.

[Leader]

Part of the reason my friends and I are taking the course is that we want to learn to ride on a motorcycle with gears and a foot selecter. The local course includes a selection of three different types of 250 bikes, the Rebel, the night hawk, and a UM sport bike.

[Charlie]

leaderdmd said:

Charlie, Are the roads more soft and fluffy near home?

I've been riding for a few years, but I'm taking the basic motorcycle course in Boston in March. Anyone want to join Dillon and me?

They are right now! They have snow on them. I don't have a clue why I do that! I get nagged by my wife, I get nagged by the next door neighbor and I still do it. We don't have a helmet law for adults here. My wife argues that I don't fit into the adult section so I should wear the helmet at all times.

I have been riding since 14 and almost never ride without a helmet and protective clothing but not that I am 57 I am "rebelling against the man" again I guess!

[Aaron]

Charlie I've been there and I get it... my wife insisted when we we were younger and now that I have kids I wear it all the time. I'm not going think ill of you but as an aquaintance please reconsider. Stick it to the man by laughing at him at the gas pump and travelling down that "perfect" stretch of twisty scenic back road while he's stuck in the cage.

Aaron

[Dennis D]

I don't always wear a seatbelt. I do when on the highway, when theres a temporary tax collection crackdown, or when I see cops that look like they've got nothin better to do than play tax collector. I call it a "freedom tax". But in the eighties, I flew over one car(that turned in front of me) without a helmet on and luckily somersaulted down the pavement on landing. Ended up with a broken nose, a cut on my forehead from my windshield, a couple sore vertebrae in my back that hurt for several years, and got cussed out somethin fierce by a female doctor who checked me over in the emergency room. Her helmet was on a peg in the next room, she probably had one there just for effect! Don't figure I've got nine lives(or if I did I used em up doing other stupid stuff in my youth), so I've worn a helmet ever since.

[earlwb]

Well, i think one of the newer high tech scooters with the "real" ABS braking systems probably comes closest to be a safer bike. Yeah they have the "real" ABS brakes on some high end sport bikes too, but I was thinking scooter at the moment.

Another new contender is the Piaggio MP3 three wheeled bike/scooter/trike. with the extra front wheel you get more traction when braking, so that might help. But I don't know for sure, it is all theory at the moment.

Some Chinese company made or makes a four wheeled motorcycle like thing (quadracycle?) that looks like the Chrysler V10 car engined powered super bike, with a 150cc engine in it. So with four tires on the road the braking should be pretty good, but it doesn't have "real" ABS brakes though. So it looks promising.

Interestingly enough maybe going simple is the way to go, a 49cc scooter might be the safest, as it isn't very fast, so there is less chance to kill yourself at the slower speeds. Usually the faster you go the more serious the injuries are when you crash.

Wearing all the motorcyling attire is probably the best one can do to keep down the serious injuries or death. But on those hot summer days, it is pretty hard to want to wear all that stuff. When I was at our local motorcycle apparel store, I noticed they had some special pants and jackets (with the extra armor inserts too) that were heavily perforated with little air holes all over. I plan on checking them out more closely this weekend. get now before summer gets here.

I have tested helmets out on a few occassions, I can attest to the fact that they do work. I am still here today. A person really really needs to wear at least a helmet all the time. Wearing decent bike apparel is really good too. I am persoonally highly allergic to road pavement. I get a rash almost just thinking about it. Yes I still have lots of scars from previous allergic reactions to pavement.

[lancecharming]

Charlie- I read that most accidents happen within 25 miles of home. So I moved...
Seriously, I think operating a 50cc scooter in slow city traffic (with a helmet) is the safest scooting you`ll do. If you keep your eyes open for "them" you`ll probably never get killed.
-Lance

[earlwb]

Well technically, BMW used to sell a 125cc scooter that had a roll cage built in. They were trying to get it approved throughout the EU, so that riders didn't need to wear a helmet on these bikes. But they weren't successful, so they eventually discontinued the scooter.
So it is arguably the safest scooter out there at the moment.
But I figured it probably died a slow death due to the pricetag. BMW of course charged an arm and a leg for it.

[griff10]

Any dual sport won't be the ideal for street riding, it's always a compromise between being able, sometimes barely, to ride in the dirt while being legal on the road. Generally dual sports sit too high and have way more travel to the suspension to be overall excellent on the road. Try an emergency stop on dry pavement on one and you'll quickly agree, the dive of the fork can be a bit scary.

Overall I'd say the sport tourers are close to being the safest ride on the road, they are much larger than pure sport bikes which makes them more visible and still retain enough of the sport bike's overall excellent handling to give you a larger margin of safety than bikes that may not handle as well. Also aren't anywhere near as heavy as a full boat tourer or most cruisers.

[gusset]

I've heard that the fuel injected models of those BMW 650 dual sports get exceptional mileage. I've even heard numbers into the high 50s or low 60s.

If I were to want to move to a motorcycle, one of those would be on my starting short list.

[WarrenS]

I think scooters are safer than motorcycles because the automatic allows you to concentrate on where you are going then what gear you are in and using the clutch. The riding position is more upright and you have bodywork around you. This is what I don't like about bicycles and sport bikes. The riding position is poor.

[leo]

leaderdmd said:

Do things like ABS and high tech suspensions save lives?

i would say that ABS, especially on the front, would most certainly save lives. a front wheel lockup can pin you under a car almost instantly.

["Big Guy"]

I would agree IF scooters came with ABS, but they don't. There is no computer on a scooter, just a crappy pressure valve, which by the way, has been known to lock up... There is a local dealer here that disconnects them all during the PDI. He has had two scoot valve lock ups in 1-year in business, one almost causing the scoot to get hit in the rear.

I'm going to disconnect mine as soon as I get the time and the notion...


-Rich

[scooterollie]

Yes, some of the high end scoots - Burgman Executive, for example - have full electronic ABS brakes.

[motomech]

Scooters are safer because in almost every instance, one would be going slower on a scooter than a motorcycle.
Speed is the exponential factor in injuries and death in two-wheeler accidents.

Apparel manufacturers are developing riding gear with air bags. Right now they are being used/tested on the track. This development shows the greatest promise in taking rider safety to a new level.

Leader, once the BMW bug has bitten you, one of the first symptoms is myopic vision .

But I would urge you to research that model a little more. Good places to do that are;

www.advriders.com and

www.horizansunlimited.com.

Once, the BMW R100GS (and PD model), like I ride, were the "Round the World" rides of choice, but fell out of favor as being too heavy and not reliable enough(I can vouch for that).
The next bike to take up the torch were the F650GS(and variants), but they too are being shied away from as being less than reliable.
These days, it's come full circle, and many adventure riders are returning to the 20 plus year old designs of Japanese big enduros.

I realize that is a very general statement and comes no where close to encompassing the subject, but many argue(myself included) that a DR650SE or a KLR650 is a better bike than the GS650F and is thousands less expensive to buy, to boot.

But if you must have a BMW, I guess nothing else will suffice.

Just my 2 cents

[thornvilleloboy]

Best answer know your limits and know your ride ! The more hi-tech tuff on it the more you will push the envelope ! You get sloppy , thinking the hi-tech tuff will protect you ! Remember the ride can't go very far , without a rider ! It is the riders skill that makes the ride ! The bone yard is full of crashed hi-tech tuff !

[griff10]

"Scooters are safer because in almost every instance, one would be going slower on a scooter than a motorcycle.
Speed is the exponential factor in injuries and death in two-wheeler accidents."

Yep, there are alot of injuries and death from untrained riders on very high powered motorcycles, but that doesn't mean that a lower powered bike with worse brakes and handling is safer, hardly.

If you have the skills and ability to ride a sport bike like an adult, yes it can be done, it's by far the safest bike on the road, 600-800 cc bikes in general area easier to ride thus slightly more safe than their larger cousins, less chance of getting too much throttle by mistake.

Bill H.

[garyr]

We also just bought our Lance 150 GSR 2 weeks ago. I am taking it easy on it. It is the first scooter I've ridden and drives quite differently than the H-D. It feels very sensitive to road ruts, bumps, wind, and makes me pay much closer attention to these things. It is still a motorcycle. I greatly appreciate the 260 lb weight of the Lance when moving it around.
I have ridden large motorcycles since 1965 and have been down only once (no bad damage). I credit it to having the good time-developed sense to realize I am on a motorcycle and have the c--p scared out of me a few times when I have allowed my attention to wonder.
( I just have to mention how much I am enjoying this web site. Great!)

GaryR