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Post by WarrenS on Nov 13, 2006 16:25:24 GMT -5
In more than 50 years of riding I have learned that you ride like they are out to get you because they ARE Avoid accidents by using your bikes maneuverabilty, acceleration, and braking. Being small has advantages. Don't be a sitting duck. Close calls are a warning that you are doing something wrong. Learn from them. Ride safe
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Post by Admin on Nov 13, 2006 17:49:49 GMT -5
Excellent post. Another thing I've learned is that brightly colored scooters keep you out of more trouble. Visibility is important. There is a guy with a scooter around my neighborhood I've seen on the road several times and he has an orange flag on a pole. Kinda dorky but I'll bet it works. Protective gear: I'm the kind of guy that loves to ride in shorts, t-shirt and sandals and feel the wind blow through my hair. During the winter, it's easy to wear the gear. Wearing leather or riding jackets with body armour and a helmet will save the day when you go down. CBXMan is sending me one of their custom riding jackets for eval. The same kind that saved Dennis's ass when he went down. You can read the story on his website. Don't think it won't happen to you. I happen to be a very good driver by nature. Passengers that ride with me comment on it all the time. I know it's easy to get confident about your ability. There is always a dog that's going to run into the street or the car that's going to run a red light. This guy was lucky. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGvKV4yp3Uo
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 13, 2006 18:05:57 GMT -5
One thing my dad taught when I was learning to drive is beeping the horn is not the first thing to do when in trouble. There is almost no situation when honking helps. Even emergency vehicles with blaring sirens check intersections before going through. Honking a horn is often just a sign of frustration. The response could wind up being road rage.
I know not everyone will agree with me on this. That is why I made it a separate post.
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Post by Dennis D on Nov 13, 2006 21:45:27 GMT -5
I firmly believe that by watching for the right things, we can train ourselves to see MOST accidents beforehand, and avoid them before they happen. One thing to watch for on any vehicle that is in a position to be a threat, particularly in an oncoming lane, or slightly ahead and in an adjacent lane, is the front wheels. If someone is sitting in an oncoming left turn lane, watch the front left wheel. That front wheel beginning to turn is much easier to spot than watching for the whole vehicle to move. Never watch someones face to try and read if they see you. They can be looking right at you or right through you, and you can't tell the difference. When in doubt approaching people who may turn in front of you, slow down. Slowing down by 10 mph can often cut 40% off the required stopping distance.
When next to other vehicles, don't assume the driver sees you EVEN if you can see their face in their rear view mirror. Keep an eye on their front tire. If they begin to change into your lane, the first sign will be their front tire beginning to turn. And don't let anyone pace you for any length of time. They might forget you're there, and if they have dark enough tinted windows, you have no idea whatsoever who's driving, what their intentions are, or if they're reading, asleep, putting on make-up, or just plain sadistic. Don't let vehicles like that pace you at all! Slow down, speed up, turn or whatever you have to do to get away from them.
Warstein made a good point about horns... you can never count on a horn to save you from a bad situation, because then you're making your safety dependent on the other driver's response, reaction time, and judgement. If you have the time to hit your horn, you have the time to hit your brake, change lanes, begin to accelerate, or whatever action you can take to avoid the danger. I do use my horn sometimes, but only to voice my displeasure(except for drivers who fell asleep at a stoplight), and that's not the brightest response, because with some people it might just bring another danger back to you. Remember that the other vehicles are almost always bigger than you, and although we might feel that our scooters are capable of getting the jump on traffic, unless you're on one of the big maxi-scooters, it's only because they let us.
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Post by surfborg on Nov 13, 2006 22:16:32 GMT -5
Dennisdh: Amen to that. I've been driving various sized vehicles for many years and I've been using those very tactics you mentioned. I one had a man drive right into the 26 ft bright white straight truck I was driving. He told the cop that he didn't see me. That truck was a heck of a lot bigger then my little green scooter. BTW I clicked on that link of yours. That mutant banjo thingy sounded cool.
Dawg: Your right. That dude was very lucky. I couldn't understand a word he said, he did sound very upset thou. Ouch!
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Post by ooopseyesharted on Nov 14, 2006 10:52:19 GMT -5
This is a post that needs to be read by all the newbies. Lets just remember that helmets, as hot and annoying as they are, are the difference between just an accident and an accident with severe injuries or death. Wear your gear! Watch your ass! thats my motto...LOL
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2006 9:23:51 GMT -5
I have a slightly different take on the use of the horn. While you can't depend on it, I think it's good to use every tool at your disposal. I ride with my thumb on the horn and toot it often. Especially at the "inchers". Inchers are the folks who are sitting at stop signs or in parking lots but who keep inching forward as they wait for traffic to clear. I hate inchers because they are the most difficult to read. Always just assume the worst and be ready for evasive manuvering but I toot the horn too. If nothing else just to let them know that their inching is irritating the hell out of me. Besides, I like to toot my own horn. ;D
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Post by ooopseyesharted on Nov 15, 2006 9:44:09 GMT -5
I agree with Lee. I have an upgraded horn on my 50cc 4 stroker and on my lexus. You need a loud horn down here with all the deaf snowbirds running around.
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Post by Dennis D on Nov 15, 2006 10:03:46 GMT -5
It's OK to keep a thumb poised over the horn as long as you can keep your fingers poised over the brake lever at the same time. People could be listening to loud music, have earbuds for a phone or mp3 player in, or the snowbirds just could be deaf! Having to unwrap your fingers from the grip and reach for the brake lever adds about half a second to braking time. That's too long if you need to respond because they don't. If I realize I am headed into an uncertain situation I ease off the gas and am poised to use the front brake at the same time. Never put your trust in an action that passes the responsibility for your safety to the person in the other vehicle! How many times have all of us heard emergency vehicle sirens and been uncertain of where the sound is coming from until we see the flashing lights... even when the vehicle's close. If your loud horn penetrates the fog the other driver may be in, and there's someone behind them..... they just might bolt, not realizing who's doing the honking! Then you'll need that brake for sure!
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Post by jackthefuzz on Nov 15, 2006 10:48:20 GMT -5
I have a slightly different take on the use of the horn. While you can't depend on it, I think it's good to use every tool at your disposal. I ride with my thumb on the horn and toot it often. Especially at the "inchers". Inchers are the folks who are sitting at stop signs or in parking lots but who keep inching forward as they wait for traffic to clear. I hate inchers because they are the most difficult to read. Always just assume the worst and be ready for evasive manuvering but I toot the horn too. If nothing else just to let them know that their inching is irritating the hell out of me. Besides, I like to toot my own horn. ;D the inching forward or starting to roll as you approach is the worst. I always look down the road for oncoming vehicles with their left turn signals on, or oncoming vehicles in the left turn lane and all vehicles sitting at intersections I consider all as a threat. Situational awareness is critical at all times. whats on my left, right and to the rear. Whats on the shoulder. While its not always possible to have a safe bail out zone mapped out, one should always have an idea of where they can go to avoid an accident, even if it means writing off the scooter. Its so important to not fixate on whats immediately in front of you. Things you can do in Florida ( other states laws my differ) . I run modulated high beams during the day and a small strobe light that I mounted in the headlight bucket at night. I put in the brightest LEDs I could get in the tail lights. Being seen is 99% of the battle. everyone should be running modulated headlights. Its cheap and very effective. Just remember to check your local laws, some states dont allow it and dont modulate at night. most units have a light sensor that shuts off the modulation at night
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Post by strangerdejavu on Nov 15, 2006 12:07:32 GMT -5
Another one that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is to watch your rear view mirrors closely, ESPECIALLY at stop lights. We have a great advantage there in that we can slip between cars very quickly if we need to. I was sitting at a stoplight about a month ago, and at the intersection perpendicular to where I was sitting, a moving car smacked right into the back of a stopped one- looked like the driver didn't even notice the red light and the stopped cars. It really gave me a jolt because I often drive on the road the accident happened on, and just to imagine if it had been me he smacked into instead of the lincoln SUV, it could really have been a mess.
So at a stoplight, we have nothing else to do but wait, so keep an eye on who's coming up behind you (and how fast they're doing it).
BTW - the car that did the smacking was a wreck. The lincoln looked fine.
And Dawg... that video... holy smokes. I bet if he'd been on a conventional motorcycle, he'd have broken at least one leg! Thus supports my theory that scooters are at least SLIGHTLY safer than MC's!
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 15, 2006 13:28:36 GMT -5
It's OK to keep a thumb poised over the horn as long as you can keep your fingers poised over the brake lever at the same time. People could be listening to loud music, have earbuds for a phone or mp3 player in, or the snowbirds just could be deaf! Having to unwrap your fingers from the grip and reach for the brake lever adds about half a second to braking time. That's too long if you need to respond because they don't. If I realize I am headed into an uncertain situation I ease off the gas and am poised to use the front brake at the same time. Never put your trust in an action that passes the responsibility for your safety to the person in the other vehicle! How many times have all of us heard emergency vehicle sirens and been uncertain of where the sound is coming from until we see the flashing lights... even when the vehicle's close. If your loud horn penetrates the fog the other driver may be in, and there's someone behind them..... they just might bolt, not realizing who's doing the honking! Then you'll need that brake for sure! I am in agreement with you 100%. I see people riding in the curb lane with a UPS truck parked and it seems they don't realize it until they are right up to it. By watching down the road you can anticipate what is going to happen. When I am unsure I lay back to let the situation develop. When somebody does a bone head maneuver I just smile and shrug my shoulders because I usually expected it.
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Post by Admin on Nov 17, 2006 14:09:57 GMT -5
On target again, warstein. I think that part of the thrill of riding two wheels is the total concentration involved. When I'm riding, I'm not thinking about the pile of bills on the table or the leaky faucet I need to fix. If any of you are thinking of other things when you ride, you are doing it wrong. Riding on two wheels requires 100% concentration..... imho
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Post by surfborg on Nov 17, 2006 14:37:30 GMT -5
On target again, warstein. I think that part of the thrill of riding two wheels is the total concentration involved. When I'm riding, I'm not thinking about the pile of bills on the table or the leaky faucet I need to fix. If any of you are thinking of other things when you ride, you are doing it wrong. Riding on two wheels requires 100% concentration..... imho That is so true. There are times in my car that I zone off a bit. Not much. Your there driving your seeing what's going on but your mind wanders. That doesn't happen on the scooter. It's like your mind sharpens up. Perhaps it's the danger. I don't know but I like having my mind awake like that.
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Post by WarrenS on Nov 18, 2006 13:27:04 GMT -5
IMHO The ability to focus and analyze the traffic information tends to carry over and you become a better car driver. It is true that being in a cocoon isolates you from the essence of your surroundings. But I don't think that you lose all sense of what you learn on a scooter when you drive a car.
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Post by Aaron on Nov 25, 2006 11:21:10 GMT -5
Totally not scooter related but if I had my way every new driver would be required to ride in a tractor trailer truck for a couple hours before getting their license. Just like motorists can't see scooters.. they have no idea of the capabilities and requirements of large vehicles. Right of way or not 80,000 lbs of rolling death deserves respect.. trucks are not nimble and don't stop on a dime. I am far more comfortable on the scoot than when I am driving a Big Truck over the road... on the scoot I am looking out for me...in the truck I am capable of wiping out everything around me and have to drive for everyone else...don't get me started on the SUV mini-van soccer mom crowd. It scares the hell out of me to see a mini-van full of inocent kids being piloted by a distracted mom with a cell phone in her ear pull out in front of me and then stop to make a turn...puts a lot of faith in my abilities to stop. Stay safe and THINK when your on the road people.
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Post by cajunfrog on Dec 16, 2006 10:23:36 GMT -5
ACD, I had a CDL for a while and know the problems you have in a big rig. They are some of the best and safest drivers in the world....look at their safety record versus all the miles they rack up. But if I had my way it would be that every new driver be required to drive a scooter or motorcycle of 150 to 300cc for about a month before getting a license. They would either be the most defensive drivers in the world or be in the hospital or cemetery. They would certainly be aware of the plight of two wheeled vehicles in modern traffic. I had a motorcycle years before I owned a car. I have had only one accident that was my fault in over 40 years of driving. I attribute that to the defensive driving techniques I developed in order to survive on two wheels. The traffic was not near as bad as today and a lot of car drivers were afraid of getting a motorcyclist peeved due to the outlaw bikers at that time. Still had a lot of close calls.
Now I have a '81 Honda 750 F model with Rooster fairing which I purchased new. It only has 5k miles on the clock and has not been on the road since '86. Thats how scared I got back then when my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I almost bought the farm due to a car running a red light. Got into dirt bikes....at least the trees wait for you to run into them. Just started fooling around with the scoots lately but staying off the main thoroughfares. Yes, they give us scoots and motorcycles very little notice or respect nowadays. Not because they are out to get us but because they are simply in a hurry (aren't we all) and don't care. We are little things and can't hurt them much....but we ARE HARDER TO SEE. Anything like bright colors or pulsing headlights that make us more visible is a plus. Only a fool rides without a helmet and the more crash gear you have on the better your chance in an accident. I could have avoided knee surgery several years ago if I had only taken the time to put on my shin and knee guards while out dirt riding.
We had a safety guy giving a presentation about auto safety recently. He said that motorcycles were a big "hazard" to watch out for because the kids on them were reckless and accelerated hard so you could not judge speed and they had better brakes than cars and would stop short in front of you. I asked him if he had ever owned or ridden a scoot or bike. He said no. I told him to get informed and get real! Kermit the CajunFrog
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Post by AZscooter on Feb 13, 2007 9:21:11 GMT -5
At intersections I like to use my my high beam. In areas of high cross traffic I drive with my low beam on. There is a trigger switch on the left handgrip that allows me to blink the high beam on and off. I find that this helps alert cross traffic at intersections that I am there. This is only another tool and I do not expect it to take the place of my being alert.
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Post by Dennis D on Feb 13, 2007 11:13:57 GMT -5
At intersections I like to use my my high beam. In areas of high cross traffic I drive with my low beam on. There is a trigger switch on the left handgrip that allows me to blink the high beam on and off. I find that this helps alert cross traffic at intersections that I am there. This is only another tool and I do not expect it to take the place of my being alert. That's a good tip, something I often do when going into an uncertain situation, but also one of those things that seems second nature to the point that I wouldn't have thought of even including it in safety tips. Sure to be more effective than a horn if done several times, so the brights won't be flipped just when they might be looking the other way, I've only known one legally blind driver with a drivers license, but there are a lot of deaf people that drive in my neighborhood.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 13, 2007 11:28:58 GMT -5
I am not sure it legal everywhere but I have headlamp and taillamp modulators on my beemer. It annoys the crap outta other drivers..but they see me! Would like to add one to the scoots when I have time.
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Post by warchild63 on Apr 26, 2007 15:06:05 GMT -5
Warstein; you are absolutely correct about the horn blowing. The time someone spent on the horn could be better used to do some defensive maneuvering; most times the driver bobbin & weavin is not concerned about your horn noise. Lock in, focus on an escape route and use it.
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Post by WarrenS on May 6, 2007 13:59:08 GMT -5
I thought I would add this: It is a good thing to learn from your mistakes. It is an even better thing to learn from other people's mistakes ;D
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Post by RWEREW on May 10, 2007 0:42:00 GMT -5
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Post by demon on May 10, 2007 20:21:21 GMT -5
RWEREW Can we have that in English please?? or am i the only one who cant read it?
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snorkeler
Big Dawg
Dazed and confused
Posts: 24
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Post by snorkeler on Jun 22, 2007 20:07:42 GMT -5
I just am COMPELLED to chime in here; of the 5 rules of safe driving this is the most important; make sure they see youI have several things I do I didn't see mentioned ..and I wonder if it's from years of commercial driving in a del truck...but it works on a scooter too; make eye contact - see if they see you! use your horn lights arm ... use your head literally-move your head (be aware that you need to not convey the wrong msg..) ie; don't nod like "yes OK"when you don't want it to be interpreted as "yes go ahead" (if you are trying to actually communicate with the other driver you need to be sure your on the same page) make sure you can see the drivers eyes in their own rear view mirror and look to see if they are even using them.. always look for back up lights or lights that go out (parked, starting to move) esp in/near parking lots- and if you "pull through" a spot KNOW that some one else will be pulling in from the other side and not expect you there be aware that no one is going to notice you backing I always try to let the other driver have his way, in other words learn to yield, and if that means pulling over and letting some putz go by...do it ...wave..honk..use your lights and nod your head, a couple miles up the road when you pass him at the pump! I also have a tip..I bought plain expensive helmet and put my own strips on it in a prismatic mylar..it catches the sun and makes it easier to notice. (also no one will steal it as I look like a dork ...but they haven't run over me yet! ...haha shiny side up!
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Post by Dennis D on Jun 23, 2007 8:50:40 GMT -5
Great tips! I like the mylar on the helmet suggestion(maybe coupld find some places on the scooter for some too). Reflective tape for at night and mylar for sunny days.... I guess cloudy days would need to be covered by wearing a bright colored safety vest!
Good suggestion about making sure to not mis-communicate with other drivers. I have been(when I remember) flashing my lights at drivers who are inching forward, stopped almost out in traffic, appear to be on a cellphone, or that I am concerned about for any or no particular reason at all, who may pull out in front of me.
In the ERC I was just in, someone said they didn't think it was a good idea because someone might interpret me flashing my lights up and down as a signal to go ahead. I am always slowing as I do it, abecause I dodn't take for granted that anything I do will 100% make people see me, but so far the "inchers" and "rollers" have alwys stopped when they see me flashing my lights. I'll just have to keep the possiblility of someone misinterpreting why I am doing it, in mind as a possible response. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't... people have a wide range of startle responses.
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Post by WarrenS on Jun 23, 2007 14:00:12 GMT -5
I find it hard to communicate with drivers who are tuned out. I take my safety into my own hands. I had an accident when I first started riding. A woman turned into a shopping center and hit me broadsided. I tried to avoid getting hit but my 1950 125cc Harley lacked any noticable acceleration or brakes. I even turned into the shopping center but she still got me. I learned the value of acceleration, braking, and maneuverability. Unfortunately I lacked the first two. Fortunately I wasn't hurt.
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Post by aristide1 on Aug 23, 2007 9:45:19 GMT -5
Warstein, I read an article in Motor Trend years ago. It had a way to measure the way you drive. It stated in no uncertain terms that if you find you average 2 panick stops a month you are driving incorrectly. You need to make adjustments, like not riding up too close or paying more attention to lights.
I summarized the article as - A little paranoia behind the wheel is a good thing.
Another thing I noticed long ago on my own; A little courtesy won't kill you, but the lack of it might.
Some really cool safety stuff right here: [ftp]http://www.reflectivedecals.com/moto.htm[/ftp]
Message to other drivers - My vehicle is not your personal pylon to bob and weave around.
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Post by aristide1 on Aug 23, 2007 12:12:55 GMT -5
I thought I would add this: It is a good thing to learn from your mistakes. It is an even better thing to learn from other people's mistakes ;D Not many people are that smart, consider yourself lucky.
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Post by lancecharming on Mar 6, 2008 21:05:39 GMT -5
After 4 days riding the new scooter I`m irked that today I caught myself driving a couple blocks after turning with my turn signal still flashing. TWICE. (I`ve only ridden a total of 11 miles so far, so I guess there`s still hope for me...) When I learned how to fly, I had a guy who was a fighter pilot in World War II tell me to always fly "with your head on a swivel". The pilot who sees the other pilot first usually shoots down the other pilot. Since our scooters were first designed by a helicopter designer working for an aircraft company using aircraft components (the only other vehicle I ever operated that had magnetos also had wings), we should operate them like aircraft. If every ride becomes a "mission" where we`re constantly scouring the airspace for the "enemy", nobody is going to get too close to us. When you`re flying you`re always looking for a place to land in case the engine quits. We should be always looking for a place to duck into when a cage is bearing down on us. Too bad they really aren`t actively looking for us- we could ride black scooters wearing black with no lights and go "stealth". Thanks everybody for all the great safety advice. You`ve probably already saved my life.
-Lance
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