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Post by soyjim on Oct 21, 2007 10:09:51 GMT -5
This is my first post. I am a lousy typest so I don't make too many posts. My is bike is Black Bandit, a 2006 Bandit 250lx (helix clone with the CfMoto engine) This scoot is known to have a problem in the ground for the fuel guage. There is a Bandit directed fix that involves grounding some wires near the fuel door opening. I did not do that. I had to change the instrument panel to get one with miles on it, this made the fuel guage work. It is going to be a while before I get my bike together again because I am thinking about all the things I should do while Black bandit is striped of much of her covering. I may also want to put in a radio and an electrical outlet. Does any body have any suggestions of what I shoud do while I have the panelling off? I also have to adjust the foot brake starter circuit. So I am speculating that what I have done is going to solve the problem of my temp guage reading high. I think this may also apply to the guys with the Qlink pegus bike that are against a wall.
It looks to me like the helix electrical diagram in the shop manual shows that the Helix gas guage and the temperature guage use the same ground wire that goes from the instrument panel to the 15 pin multi connector. The wiring harness to the instrument panel has 9 wires connected to the 15 pin connector, so some of the slots are empty. Two of the pins on the wiring harnesses to the instrument panel are in different slots. One of these is green, which I am told by people at Bandit Motor Sports, the Chineese regularly use as there ground color. Chineese wiring colors can be a problem though. the other wire in a different position my best guess is that it goes to the light switch from the 15pin connector. If the bike works I am not to worried about that cause I believe I read somewhere that European and American bikes work slightly different in there lighting switch control. For what it is worth the other wire out of position in the 15 pin connector was black in the old wiring harness and black and brown in the new harness. The other wires match pin for pin with only color change a blue wire on the old to a green and white wire on the new harness.
The temperature reporting gauge uses an electrical resistance signal from the sensor for reporting the temperature. The helix service manual on page 6-6 says that a improperly grounded circuit will report high temperatures. There is also an explanation of how to do a continuity check on the circuit to see if that problem exists. Anyone that has a regular high temperature reading that is baffaling them could have this continuity check done and with this posting solve their "overheating problem." If my wiring harness had the problem others might. I know as a first posting this may seem like an entry from left field, but I have put a lot of thought into this worrisome overheating problem. I think this is going to solve it. The people at Bandit motor sports couldn't say for sure that this will solve overheating guage reporting. Would like to here what others think while I still have easy access to internal components.
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Post by soyjim on Oct 21, 2007 10:36:49 GMT -5
Made slight mistake in first posting. Should have referenced page 20-8 instead of page 6-6 in Helix service manual. sorry not enough coffee yet.
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Post by savage223 on Oct 22, 2007 15:03:07 GMT -5
Soy- Welcome if you're new!
Thanks for the post in my section for the Pegasus; I'll be watching to see what advice is given or what you decide to do. I'm not certain that our systems are very much alike- but it's only an instinct I really don't know for sure.
Before you install your radio- make certain you're dealing with DC voltages as opposed to AC voltages. If your system charges using AC you'll have to put a rectifier on the bike to allow the radio to work. (Unless there is a way to isolate the battery source voltages.)
I might be off my rocker here- but I thought that the charging / power systems used in these bikes are AC... but maybe I misinterpreted something. Just wanted to warn in case- so you don't blow out your new Pioneer without knowing for sure.
I'll be checking back! Good luck!
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Post by soyjim on Oct 25, 2007 7:09:45 GMT -5
Savage I got lucky to find my problem. Bandit, my dealer had already identified that my scooter had a known grounding problem. The fix they came up with only corrected one of the circuits and was hard to do. A gas gage could wait until I had to take parts off. My previous bike didn't have a gas gage. As a I understand it Your dealer has pretty well pointed you in the direction of a faulty gage. The volumes of coolant you are putting in are very high as compared to the probable size of your coolant capacity. My bike has about 1.4 liters of coolant and an additional .4 liter amount of coolant should be in the reserve. Your bike is probably less. I have already posted elsewhere how I coped with the worry when the bike showed hot. The reserve fluctuated from about 1/5full to full. That would be about . 6 liters fluctuation. In your case it appears that the radiator has adequate cooling capacity cause It cools so quickly after shut down.
I had to change out the instrument panel to get one that registered in miles. Low and behold that fixed my fuel gauge also. I was courious so I noticed that the green wire in the wiring harness was in a different pin slot. In researching the bad gauge problem I noticed that a bad ground would cause a faulty temp gage reading. A poster going by nalx has some posts about this circuit and resistance sensitivity causing a bad gauge reading. The way my manual describes testing the circuit involves contnuity testing at the temp sensor. I don't understand well enough to explain it and if I did it I Would have to think a great deal about the results I got to interpret it correctly. what I can explain and do is find the main wiring pin connection. It is really going to hurt to go this route cause all the wires are so neatly tied and bundled. I had to take them apart to unplug the Instrument panel. So if You go this route putting it back together is a pain. If this is your problem someone will have to take apart the wiring. At the pin connector where the ground wire (probably green -but Chineese wiring) goes to the instrument panel. check that circuit to see if it goes to the ground. In your case I would see if your repair shop would either do the check or explain to you how to do a ground continuity check on the temperature gage sensor circuit. They should have the information on how to do it. sorry to here about your situation. In regaurd to this problem I am the idea guy not the repair guy. If you solve your problem I would be interested to hear how you do go about diagnosing it. peace be with you.
Hope you can understand this message. In rereading it the flow and grammer seems off but I think it is understandable. I am to tired to fix it now and don't know how to save to fix it later. I can't believe how long these posts get.
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Post by soyjim on Oct 25, 2007 14:13:28 GMT -5
preliminary testing looks good. last spring when I got the bike in about 40degree weather temp gage idled at maybe 4 but mostly 5 or 6 bars out of 9 bars. this summer it idled at 7 or 8bars which is in the getting to the warning zone. today ( around 50 degrees) after the grounding fix it idled at 2 bars for quite a while maybe 7 to 10 minutes. and even with gunning the engine I couldn't get it above 3 bars in 15 minutes.
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Post by "Big Guy" on Oct 27, 2007 20:14:31 GMT -5
I don't know if this will haelp anyone or not, but I import products from China, mostly LED electronics, and the wiring code is: Red-Hot, Blue-Neutral, Green or Green w/Yellow stripe:Ground.
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Post by soyjim on Oct 28, 2007 13:23:48 GMT -5
while I've got the covers off it might be beneficial to know what the different colored wires represent. I have a related electrical problem with the new instrument panel that is preventing me from making any additional wiring changes until I know whats going on. I have pretty well decided not to put in the radio, or electric port, because I don't want to add any other electrical variables before I know I have a scooter that is running right.
The new instrument panel was not as bright as the old instrument panel had been. I really didn't think about this cause the engine started right up and setting out in the sun without a shade over the instrument panel, they both were pretty difficult to read. The next day when trying to start it in the garage I noticed how dim the instrument panel was. In my disappointment I don't know if I pressed hard enough on the brake to engage the starter.(may makes this impossible to know) I know I hooked up the battery charger and the instrumental panel was alright. I assumed that the battery was low or being discharged by the new instrument panel. Now I am in diagnosis stage and the instrument panel is as bright as it should be. The bike starts as it should. the battery holds a charge. The only thing I can think of is that the cause of the dim instrumental panel was a poor connection on that circuit. In fooling with the wires I may have corrected the problem. The only thing that will help verify this is time. I certainly don't want to introduce any new varibles if the problem comes back later when I have the bike reassembled. (FYI) The color of the wires in the instrumental panel that were the same were blue, yellow and white, light blue, orange, brown and another green.
I have adjusted the sensitivity to brake pressure in the starter circuit by turning the plastic nut that controls this sensitivity 1 and 1/2 turns in a counter clock wise direction. Now it requires less pressure on brake to get the engine to turn over. It is still more than adequate to prevent the rear wheel from spinning. May decide to turn the nut 1/2 turn more, I don't think that will make much difference in pressure sensitivity and it will give me a 'little' tighter cable. there is still notaceble slack in the control cable. While I have got every thing off it would be a good time to adjust the parking brake so that the rear wheel is immobilized when the parking brake is engaged. currently the parking brake does not hold. instructions for adjusting the parking brake are not clear to me yet. Hope someone finds my experiences helpful. really hope someone with an overheating guage confirms the ground is a problem in there bike.
I don't want a pickle, just want to ride on my motorcycle.
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