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Post by Dennis D on Aug 30, 2007 11:23:06 GMT -5
At 16,000+ miles, I think I need a new variator on my Helix, or at least new plates. My variator plates are really worn badly with bad grooves in them. Just Honda variator plates and new seals, would cost $10 more than the price of a complete variator made by PSF for Honda Clones.
From all available pictures, the PSF variator looks exactly like the variator on my Helix and I'm of the understanding that the CF-Moto 244cc engines aren't "reverse engineered" but that they licensed and bought the plans for the Honda 244cc engine. Also the belt that is sold for the CF-Moto engine is the same 828mm - 22.5mm belt as the Helix takes, and I've found several vendors selling that belt in combination with the PSF 180-3 variator I may get, so I'm thinking of getting it as a whole replacement variator, since then I'd have the extra drive face shaft, ramp, bolts, rollers, etc.
Whichever way I go on the variator itself, I want to order some DR Pulley Sliding rollers and a Kevlar belt, but I need to understand why there are both 24 x 18 and 23 x 18 DR Pulley sliding rollers listed for the 244cc engine on two separate vendor sites including Oregon Vintage.
I have found that parts sites list the Helix as having 24 x 18 rollers and the Reflex with 23 x 18 rollers, and there are obvious differences in the variators of the Reflex and the Helix.
The Kymco 250cc engines also use rollers with the dimensions of 23 x 18. Several vendors carrying Dr Pulley sliders list the 24 x 18s as being for Honda clones and the same 23 x 18s as Stan has listed as for hondas, as Kymco rollers, with no mention of possible use in Hondas or Honda Clones. There are many more size choices in the 23 x 18 sliding roller sets, which is the only reason I'm even thinking about them at all.
I assume the rollers(23 x 18 and 24 x 18) aren't entirely interchangeable, and that that vendors are recommending both for the same Honda clone variators because they give more options in available weights, and are close enough in size to work... although it seems that the smaller rollers in a variator intended for 24 x 18s would be a sloppy fit, and could lead to premature failures. Does anyone know enough about this to either corroborate or correct that idea?
An aside to this is that two other vendors are advertising this same (180-3)variator as being for the CF Moto V3 and V5 and selling the same 828 x 22.5 belt that works on the Helix with it. The V3 and V5 models have larger wheels which should require a longer CVT case, so how can that be right? It seems like the V3 and V5's should require a longer belt.
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Post by WarrenS on Aug 30, 2007 19:28:14 GMT -5
The v3 and v5 obviously have different gearing due to the larger wheels. They need a larger driven gear which positions the wheel further back.
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Post by monty57 on Aug 30, 2007 20:51:17 GMT -5
Stan seams to be up on the issues. Why try a PM?
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Post by Jacine on Aug 30, 2007 21:07:39 GMT -5
My V3 has a 1000mm mitsuboshi (not mistubishi) belt. I thought that the Dr Pulley sliders had to be used in a Dr Pulley variator? There is a mallossi 2000 variator that is made for helix and helix clones along with kevlar belts.
Dennis
Which sites have the V3 and V5 variators?
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 30, 2007 21:12:13 GMT -5
No, the sliding weights will work fine in the stock variators. Stan My V3 has a 1000mm mitsuboshi (not mistubishi) belt. I thought that the Dr Pulley sliders had to be used in a Dr Pulley variator? There is a mallossi 2000 variator that is made for helix and helix clones along with kevlar belts. Dennis Which sites have the V3 and V5 variators? |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 30, 2007 21:22:17 GMT -5
He did before he posted this thread, and below is the reply I sent. The only reason I carry both the 23 and 24 mm sizes is that people have requested the 24 mm diameter because that is what they had in their scooter. The fact is, the Chinese scooters with the CFMoto engine are using the same variator, but for some unknown reason, certain manufacturers (or CFMoto) use either size weight. This may simply be a supply issue, but for whatever reason, the fact remains that either one will work fine. Stan Hi Dennis, the CFMoto engine comes with the 23x18 rollers, but as you point out, some scooters use the 24 mm diameter. Actually, there is no real reason to choose one over the other since 1 mm in diameter is insignificant and the width is the same. I have purchased some Honda parts for comparison and found that they were absolutely identical. The rubber intake manifold I bought actually had the exact casting markings as the Chinese part! So, you are right that Honda is inflating the price a bit when they stick in an OEM parts bag. I am currently out of the PFS variator, but more are in transit and due to arrive next week. I have not compared the variator to the OEM Honda part, but if it is different, you can certanly return it, but my guess is they are identical. Stan Stan seams to be up on the issues. Why try a PM? |
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Post by Dennis D on Aug 30, 2007 21:51:30 GMT -5
Stan seams to be up on the issues. Why try a PM? That's what I did first.... but I guess he's not sure either. If I don't get an answer, I'll assume that I'd better stick with the 24 x 18 roller size.... even though I wish I had all the options in the different sizes of rollers that the 23 x 18s would give me. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in the PSF variator if it fits a standard helix. There seem to be quite a few vendors selling parts who don't know about the applications they can be used for. I called partsforscooters because they were advertising the PSF variator, clutch and kevlar 828mm belt as for V3 and V5, but no mention of CF Moto Fashion, even though I know the belt at least is the right one for the Helix clones, and they had no clue as to why it was that there was no mention of Helix clones for any of those parts applications. I'm not sure it's the vendor's faults. I have the feeling that the distributors selling the parts are only giving the barest of clues as to what they're for. I will probably just order the Honda oem variator parts, rather than the PSF variator, and the 24 x 18 sliders and kevlar belt from Stan, because I'm sure none of those would be a wrong choice, but there are a bunch of people on Helix and MaxiScooter forums who would like to know if there are other less expensive alternatives to Honda parts than HelixParts.com.... which sells mainland chinese made parts for Hondas for too much $$ considering the poor quality. I think that MRP and possibly PSF gets a lot of their aftermarket parts from Taiwan sources and the prices are generally better, and expect that quality is probably better too. I ordered a couple things from helixparts.com and am not impressed. I just figured I'd ask, and see what anwers surface. I have a week or more before I plan to order. My variator's working fine, but that belt I got from the helixparts.com site is stretching like mad, and if it doesn't stop I'll have to replace it soon... and know that the next time I get into the CVT I need to replace those drive plates too. I hope someone out there knows some for sure answers to all these questions, but otherwise I'll play it safe when I order. |
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Post by Dennis D on Aug 30, 2007 22:09:36 GMT -5
Just saw the message here.... thanx Stan. For some reason it never showed up in my mailbox..... I have no clue why I have trouble getting mail from some isp's. I remeber now that the last time we exchanged emails, I never got yours either, I have no junk mailbox or filters.... it's something going on with verizon and certain other ip's. At least I get notification of all my orders for my business(I log in to check em, but have never come up short on those). Thanks for the explanation. I wondered if it wasn't something like that..... and really suspected that the V3 and V5 had to use a longer belt. The places(Not oregonvintage) that list all the 244cc drive parts as V3 and V5 should change that so as to not cause people unnecessary delay in getting the right parts.
Jacine, one of those places listing the PSF variator as for the V3 and V5 is partsforscooters.com. The variators may be the same in the Helix clones and V midels, but the implication is there(at least by omission) that the 828 drive belt would work on the same models they're advertising the variator to work on, and the 1000mm belt the V3,V5 requires isn't listed or apparently available from them. There was another place using the same exact advertising/application claims, but my main computer just fried an hour ago, and all my bookmarks are on it, so I don't have access to that right now.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 31, 2007 0:17:17 GMT -5
Dennis, one reason that I carry a limited selection of parts is that I actually test them to be sure they work. Many of the vendors simply go by what MRP or PFS lists on their site, and it's often wrong and incomplete. MRP and PFS both ask me regularly about fitment of various parts. I don't mind, but I also don't plan on doing their homework for them and every other parts dealer, and in many cases, they get the information wrong (or don't listen) anyway. MRP is pretty bad about details on parts and worse when it comes to getting any useful information. I have a strict rule with MRP, which is "NO PARTS SUBSTITUTIONS" or you will get it shipped back to you! Most of them just want to sell things and let the dealer deal with the problems. Sometimes it's frustrating, especially with all of the various scooter brands that no one has a clue about what the differences are. The only reason I buy Chinese scooters is to see what works on them so I can pass the information along to the end user. Most importers don't have the guts to let me review thier scooters because I won't give them the right to edit what I write about them and if it's junk, I'll say so. Scares them to death that their scooter will be written about in real world terms and not as they like to hype them. A good example of these smash and grab scooter hawkers is the recent post from Vroom Motorsports. I send them a message saying I wanted information on the scooters and if they had sufficient information, I may be interested in being a stocking dealer, but for parts only. No reply, which is what I expected from them. They just want to stack up scooter sales and leave the buyers stuck when they buy from a crappy dealer (which they are soliciting for), just like Tank, Baron, Wussi, Sunl, Sunflower and Roketa have all done. Stan Just saw the message here.... thanx Stan. For some reason it never showed up in my mailbox..... I have no clue why I have trouble getting mail from some isp's. I remeber now that the last time we exchanged emails, I never got yours either, I have no junk mailbox or filters.... it's something going on with verizon and certain other ip's. At least I get notification of all my orders for my business(I log in to check em, but have never come up short on those). Thanks for the explanation. I wondered if it wasn't something like that..... and really suspected that the V3 and V5 had to use a longer belt. The places(Not oregonvintage) that list all the 244cc drive parts as V3 and V5 should change that so as to not cause people unnecessary delay in getting the right parts. Jacine, one of those places listing the PSF variator as for the V3 and V5 is partsforscooters.com. The variators may be the same in the Helix clones and V midels, but the implication is there(at least by omission) that the 828 drive belt would work on the same models they're advertising the variator to work on, and the 1000mm belt the V3,V5 requires isn't listed or apparently available from them. There was another place using the same exact advertising/application claims, but my main computer just fried an hour ago, and all my bookmarks are on it, so I don't have access to that right now. |
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Post by monty57 on Aug 31, 2007 6:37:19 GMT -5
As always, Stan, you tell it like it is. I don't mind sending people your way anytime I can. I have never had anyone come back with a complaint. As I have said in many posts, these things can be a great value for money and a lot of fun but there is so much mis-information out there and the "good, bad and the ugly" delaers is takes some of the fun out. We need more people like you to help keep the fun in and the wheels rolling!
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 31, 2007 8:26:38 GMT -5
Thanks Monty! Keep in mind that this is just a hobby for me, so I have the luxury of doing what I choose and not what is financially viable. I have a very good (often taxing) job, so I can only dedicate part of my time to scooters. Parts sales supply the funding to purchase scooters for reviews and articles, because I don't accept "freebie" test units since I think that taints the results. I do try to get a substantial discount on the scooter purchases so that I don't lose too much when they are sold. I usually keep them about a year and then they need to move on. I'll be replacing the RoadRunner Racer 250 sometime this fall and looking for the next candidate (or victim) when I find a cooperative importer with a model I think information is needed on. Stan As always, Stan, you tell it like it is. I don't mind sending people your way anytime I can. I have never had anyone come back with a complaint. As I have said in many posts, these things can be a great value for money and a lot of fun but there is so much mis-information out there and the "good, bad and the ugly" delaers is takes some of the fun out. We need more people like you to help keep the fun in and the wheels rolling! |
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Post by bobpt on Sept 2, 2007 20:29:50 GMT -5
Stan, I notice that when I order parts from you, it takes about 3 whole days to get to me. Would you consider quiting your day job so you can devote full time to the parts program? I figure that if you are there full time, I will have my parts within 24 hours (darn postal system for being so slow) LOL.
As a hobby, I repair or build computers for family, friends, co-workers, whoever. 99.9% of my parts are ordered online from a company that has great prices, low shipping costs, and they always send me exactly what I ordered and I almost always get the items within three days. Great service at a good price just can't be beat. Please don't be discouraged by the recent negativism that came your way. I look forward to having you continue to enlighten us with your wealth of knowledge and insight as we deal with our scooters.
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Post by Dennis D on Sept 3, 2007 19:49:02 GMT -5
Parts sales supply the funding to purchase scooters for reviews and articles, because I don't accept "freebie" test units since I think that taints the results. I do try to get a substantial discount on the scooter purchases so that I don't lose too much when they are sold. Stan That's good to know. I tend to distrust the veracity of reviews by all car, motorcycle, boating, or scooter magazines..... and just about anyone else who accepts advertising from the makers of the vehicles reviewed or their competitors. To keep getting test subjects sent to them, the reviewers have to try and find nice things to say about them unless they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It's good to have consumer advoacates buying scooters, just as some of the consumer reports magazines buy and test other things.... but not scooters, as far as I know! I have had an offer for a scooter that would be sent to me for review, but attached to that was a request for me to place ads on my site for that brand, and I don't want to go there for the same reason that you gave. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2007 21:12:54 GMT -5
I have no problem paying the importer/distributor their cost for the scooter because I don't need to see them lose if the product is junk, but generally, the review will benefit the people that sell them more than anyone, and I refuse to sell scooters. What I get from it is the ability to check them over and tear them apart to see what works well and what doesn't, and do some troubleshooting. I have also turned down "freebie" scooters because there are always strings attached that I won't agree to. If it's a good scooter, I'll say so. If it's not..... well, that's the risk they take and at least they don't lose money on the deal so they have no room to complain. I don't advertise and I don't accept advertisers or links to companies I don't know and trust. Yep, I have a lot of rules.  Stan Parts sales supply the funding to purchase scooters for reviews and articles, because I don't accept "freebie" test units since I think that taints the results. I do try to get a substantial discount on the scooter purchases so that I don't lose too much when they are sold. Stan That's good to know. I tend to distrust the veracity of reviews by all car, motorcycle, boating, or scooter magazines..... and just about anyone else who accepts advertising from the makers of the vehicles reviewed or their competitors. To keep getting test subjects sent to them, the reviewers have to try and find nice things to say about them unless they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It's good to have consumer advoacates buying scooters, just as some of the consumer reports magazines buy and test other things.... but not scooters, as far as I know! I have had an offer for a scooter that would be sent to me for review, but attached to that was a request for me to place ads on my site for that brand, and I don't want to go there for the same reason that you gave. |
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Stan