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Post by rnrperry98 on Aug 3, 2007 1:25:35 GMT -5
I have been really considering getting a helix clone, but from reading here I am not sure they will have the power I need. I am a big guy pushing 300lbs. I want a scooter that can keep up with the freeway traffic here at 75mph. It would be even better if I could go 75 with a passenger on as well if possible.
Are there enough performance upgrades to get the 244cc CF Moto to perform like I need?
What other scooters would you recommend?
Thanks for any info you might have
Rob
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Post by termite on Aug 3, 2007 4:58:08 GMT -5
Based on your requirements, I would suggest something in the 400cc range. Yamaha Majesty or Suzuki Burgman.
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Post by bigal on Aug 3, 2007 7:10:17 GMT -5
;D Ok my vote for best highway monster how about the 800cc aprila? Just a evil thought.
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Post by monty57 on Aug 3, 2007 8:33:39 GMT -5
I don't think you can make enough improvements to that engine and drive to consistently cruise at those speeds. I have a RR 250 TLX and it will run in the low 70s but that is full throttle and I don't think any engine will give maximum life pushing them that hard. Enhancing the engine for more horse power also creates more stress on the set-up and in my humble opinion will shorten its life significantly. The last problem I found was that since the scooters are light weight and have smaller tires you are pushed around quite a bit by the wind and surrounding traffic.
All that being said I think the other guys here are right. I bought a Yamaha Majesty just for that very reason. I live in a small rural town about fifty miles west of St. Louis. I have to get on I-70 frequently to go almost anywhere. What I have found so far, is that the 400cc is plenty to keep up with traffic, pass and the all important merging and the extra weight helps reduce the buffeting by the wind and traffic. I have found the wind screen to be a little lacking in height and width but Yamaha as well a several aftermarket folks offer "Cruiser" type windshields to help in this area. The two up thing will also mean the need for more HP.
All in all, I think you should start thinking a minimum of 400cc and 400 lbs+ for your highway needs. The price point will be much higher but if you do some home work there are dealers that do discount (I got all my accessories thrown in, an additional discount off list and they waved the "shipping & set-up" fees that most dealers want to tack on). There are also some great used bargains out there. Don't make the same mistake I did and start too small. You will only wind up spending more money in the end to get what you want/need.
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Post by ashley on Aug 3, 2007 9:45:48 GMT -5
I weigh 215lbs, and I usually carry about 25lbs of luggage and accessories on my Kymco People 250, and I can still push 80-85 WOT on the interstate if I want. I'm guessing that if it was just you on my scooter, you could maintain 75mph all day, but if you want a passenger as well, I'd look into the next step up, such as what the other guys are mentioning with my additional recommendation of the Silverwing.
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Post by Gary on Aug 3, 2007 10:59:08 GMT -5
Ashley -
Is that 80 - 85 verified? The People is a really nice machine, but 80 -85 seems fast for a 250.
How is the ride at freeway speeds - reasonably stable?
Thanks!
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Post by hillbilly on Aug 3, 2007 11:19:22 GMT -5
rnrperry98 I'm guessing that so far the answers you have received have been a little disappointing as you tally up the price difference between the Helix clone you had originally contemplated and something that will meet your needs. The replies have been good ones though and monty57's reasoning is right on target. You do need more than a 250 and WOT should be for acceleration or hills, not cruising.
Sure you can modify the 250 to get the power you need. If you have enough money you can build a Helix that will beat my Suzuki 1100 motorcycle but it sure won't do it for long.
Scooters are the best for running around town but if you really want to be able to safely sustain highway speed you'll want a 400 or better not just for the power but for better stability and ride at higher speeds.
Last fall I painted a guys new Silverwing and had the pleasure of delivering it to him when done about 80 miles up I-44. Nicest scooter I've personally gotten to try yet and it was nice on the interstate but still did not have the stability, ride, handling, or power I am accustomed to on motorcycles.
So you should probably think over your desires carefully and decide what the ability to go as far as you want on any road you choose to ride means to you. Maybe you can figure out routes to the places you go that avoid high speeds. The price difference between a Helix clone and a Burgman or Majesty is a pretty wide gap, but there would be no point in buying a machine that doesn't do what you want it to, so you may want to jump that gap.
What would I do? Since used maxi-scoots are not that common and generally still expensive I personally would go out and get a used motorcycle that cost about as much as the Helix clone would have and then go where I want at the speed I want on any road I choose to ride.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by YellowScooter on Aug 3, 2007 11:38:19 GMT -5
I'm forced to agree with Hillbilly. I can't kick a shifter to save my life on account of R.A. and bad ankles. So that being said substituting a scooter for a motorcycle must involve compromise, Until I have the money for a Ridley Autoglide, the idea of interstate travel on 2 wheels has been unconditionaly ruled out. but Route 66 is still open  |
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Post by Andi on Aug 3, 2007 19:05:49 GMT -5
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Post by ashley on Aug 4, 2007 11:00:36 GMT -5
The 85 is when I was going down a very slight decline with WOT, but on level interstate, with my full load of 230lbs or so, I can easily get 80. It rides very smooth at this speed thanks to the 16'' tires and windshield. I haven't had a chance to test this with GPA however, so you can go from there. BUT I did have my wife follow me in her Honda Passport on the interstate and we matched each other at 70mph, so I'm guessing my speedo is near accurate, unless both of ours aren't  ... |
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Post by aristide1 on Aug 4, 2007 16:42:35 GMT -5
Based on your requirements, I would suggest something in the 400cc range. Yamaha Majesty or Suzuki Burgman. Add my vote here. |
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Post by scooterlizard on Aug 4, 2007 16:56:19 GMT -5
Based on your requirements, I would suggest something in the 400cc range. Yamaha Majesty or Suzuki Burgman. Add my vote here. Go big, you will be better for it. I own a Majesty and got it for the long hauls on highway and interstate. Add my vote here too. |
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Post by earlwb on Aug 5, 2007 8:57:08 GMT -5
A Burgman 400 or 650, Honda Silverwing 600, a Kymco Exciting 500, a Aprilla 500 would all be good candidates. One of the 250's would be marginal for this, but maybe it would work OK.
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Post by WarrenS on Aug 5, 2007 11:29:40 GMT -5
I have both a 400 and a 250. I find that the 250 handles freeway travel easily. I also think that the 400 is better especially if any distance is involved. I don't ride 2 up. In that case I would prefer the 400. I also heard that 2 up in the mountains on a 250 can be difficult but not impossible.
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Post by scottfla on Aug 5, 2007 12:14:34 GMT -5
Warstein, what's the comparative cruising speed on your two scooters? Will the Morph cruise (easily) at 70 or 75mph?
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Post by WarrenS on Aug 5, 2007 15:22:48 GMT -5
I haven't done much cruising on it but the times I have taken it on the freeway it seems to have a lot of poop on hills and stuff. The power isn't as immediate as the Burgman. It has double overhead cams, 4 valves and fuel injection. It has a gear driven counterbalancer so it is smooth running. The Burgman just has enough for anything I want to do with it. I have never been lacking for power.
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Post by scottfla on Aug 5, 2007 16:11:21 GMT -5
Does poop mean the same as pep?  |
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Post by aristide1 on Aug 5, 2007 16:25:01 GMT -5
Does poop mean the same as pep? If it did Tanks would be the fastest scooters out there. |
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Post by hillbilly on Aug 5, 2007 16:27:54 GMT -5
I'd say the answer to that one is subject dependent scottfla ;D
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Post by WarrenS on Aug 5, 2007 18:19:00 GMT -5
I meant get up and go. The Morphous has a long stroke in relation to its bore. Long strokes equate to high torque. I thought it would vibrate more because of this. It doesn't because of the gear driven counterbalancer. |
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Post by monty57 on Aug 5, 2007 20:41:45 GMT -5
I don't think comparing the a Yamaha 250 to the CF Moto or other Chinese engines is fair comparison. The Yamaha as was stated are 4 valve, DOHC, fuel injected engines were the Chinese..... well they are not. I have a Chinese 250 and a Majesty and I would be hard pressed to enjoy the Chinese 250 on the interstate fro any but the shortest trip. I have been riding cycles all my life and I do not feel the least bit comfortable out among the traffic when I try it. Under powered and under weight. I think the Morph weighs a little more and possibly has larger tires too. All making it a better, even though in my humble opinion, not a great interstate cruiser.
All that being said I know a chap who bought a Morph specifically to take between St. Louis and Kansas City on I-70, does it on a regular basis and says he thinks it works just fine.
So I guess it is still very much a personal choice but give me weight and HP if I'm going out to play with big kids at 70+mph.
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Post by HPS MotorSports LLC on Aug 5, 2007 21:33:30 GMT -5
Not verified....but I have driven Daelim S2-250's on the freeway at 80-83mph
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Post by ashley on Aug 5, 2007 22:09:07 GMT -5
Sort of off topic-Can anyone elaborate how much performance difference is between a carb and fuel injected scooter?
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Post by YellowScooter on Aug 6, 2007 6:47:25 GMT -5
Cold start and idle smoothness is where you'll see the 1st difference. With a carb you sometimes gotta stay with the throttle and keep it going, not so with EFI. Takeoff with a EFI scooter will be a whole lot snappier, as well as gas milage will be greatly improved. A 250 injected scoot will get the same or better milage as a carbed 150 . I don't have any side by side examples or dyno numbers or anything like that, but the difference is clearly like night n day. If the few extra bucks isn't a big burden, EFI is worth every cent.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 6, 2007 8:44:06 GMT -5
Other than the cold starts and computer matched mixture settings, the big one is running at altitude. All engines will lose power at high altitude, but the EFI engines adjust for the thinner air and run much better than carbed engines. EFI is the way to go if you have an option and the manufacturer has a good reputation with them. Stan Sort of off topic-Can anyone elaborate how much performance difference is between a carb and fuel injected scooter? |
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Post by T W I S T E R on Aug 6, 2007 13:52:34 GMT -5
Ashley - Is that 80 - 85 verified? The People is a really nice machine, but 80 -85 seems fast for a 250. How is the ride at freeway speeds - reasonably stable? Thanks! people 250 is 6% optimistic on speed. 85 is about 80. |
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Post by Gary on Aug 6, 2007 17:00:33 GMT -5
Still, very impressive.
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Post by aristide1 on Aug 6, 2007 21:11:55 GMT -5
A Burgman 400 or 650, Honda Silverwing 600, a Kymco Exciting 500, a Aprilla 500 would all be good candidates. One of the 250's would be marginal for this, but maybe it would work OK. I can't speak for the other big boys listed here, but if what I saw is correct, that the Aprilia 500 ie doesn't have an oil filter, sorry, for that engine size in anything, it's not acceptable. |
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Post by tispectrum on Aug 7, 2007 9:00:09 GMT -5
Just returned from riding my Kymco Grand Vista from NYC to North Carolina. It was fine on the interstate as long as I wasn't trying to pass at over 70mph. I made the trip with a Vespa GTS and a GT. Staying in the right lane and cruising at 65 (gps) we were fine.
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Post by YellowScooter on Aug 7, 2007 19:17:52 GMT -5
From what I hear, you had all the speed you'd need, but didn't you feel tiny out there on the GTS?
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