Argh! New problem, coolant leak

[Gary]

After confirming (I think) that my Viva has defective stator, the scoot developed a massive coolant leak. The coolant seems to be gushing out of the bottom of the crankcase, at a gasket that is between two halves of the case.

I suspect the coolant is coming from somewhere else and running down, but at first glance it didn't seem that way. In checking the stator, I didn't do anything to the crankcase like try to remove the stator housing. I only removed some body panels and did some voltage checks. Probably in the process I dislodged a coolant hose somewhere. But I was too pissed off to try to track the source of the leak down, so the scoot is sitting in my garage.

Until right now I've been happy with my cheap chinascoot. The failed stator is a nuisance, but hasn't kept me from riding. I've been commuting to work every day and loving it. Between my Viva 250 and my Tank 150 I have over 7,000 kms that I didn't drive my SUV. I calculate I've saved nearly $1,000 in gas alone, plus lower maintenance costs, and reduced insurance cost. I'm selling the 150 for about what I paid for it, so my total scooter investment so far is on the order of $2,300. A terrific deal and a ton of fun too. Even the maintenance and the quirks of the chinascoots has been a fun learning experience, largely to the Dawgpound.

On the other hand, not having any dealer support is a pain. We have a Kymco dealer here in San Diego and the People 250 is looking pretty attractive:
- Good quality scoot that is freeway capable
- A real warranty (should I need it).
- CARB certified
- A classic look that will probably hold value well
- Not so big as to be hard to handle

I'm definitely hooked on scooting now and can easily afford a higher quality scoot. So, maybe an upgrade is in the cards soon.
Gary

[90GTVert]

There is a small coolant line (similar in size to a fuel line) from the carb to the thermostat housing on the right side, and this is the likely hose for a leak since you were in that area. Chinese clamps aren't all that great, but you probably just knocked it loose on one end. Stan

gary505 said:

After confirming (I think) that my Viva has defective stator, the scoot developed a massive coolant leak. The coolant seems to be gushing out of the bottom of the crankcase, at a gasket that is between two halves of the case.

I suspect the coolant is coming from somewhere else and running down, but at first glance it didn't seem that way. In checking the stator, I didn't do anything to the crankcase like try to remove the stator housing. I only removed some body panels and did some voltage checks. Probably in the process I dislodged a coolant hose somewhere. But I was too pissed off to try to track the source of the leak down, so the scoot is sitting in my garage.

Until right now I've been happy with my cheap chinascoot. The failed stator is a nuisance, but hasn't kept me from riding. I've been commuting to work every day and loving it. Between my Viva 250 and my Tank 150 I have over 7,000 kms that I didn't drive my SUV. I calculate I've saved nearly $1,000 in gas alone, plus lower maintenance costs, and reduced insurance cost. I'm selling the 150 for about what I paid for it, so my total scooter investment so far is on the order of $2,300. A terrific deal and a ton of fun too. Even the maintenance and the quirks of the chinascoots has been a fun learning experience, largely to the Dawgpound.

On the other hand, not having any dealer support is a pain. We have a Kymco dealer here in San Diego and the People 250 is looking pretty attractive:
- Good quality scoot that is freeway capable
- A real warranty (should I need it).
- CARB certified
- A classic look that will probably hold value well
- Not so big as to be hard to handle

I'm definitely hooked on scooting now and can easily afford a higher quality scoot. So, maybe an upgrade is in the cards soon.
Gary

[scooterollie]

Gary;
Check the hose Stan described to you. Mine did not come off the hose bib or leak but it didn't have a clamp on it at delivery - could very possible have done the same for me if I had not caught it during an inspection.

[automattic]

I wouldnt put anymore money into the viva. Sell it and get the Kymco. You wont regret it and you probably will never buy Chinese again.

[Gary]

Thanks Stan and Ollie.

After the appropriate amount of cooling off time (about an hour for the scooter, about a week for me), I finally decided to dig in to the coolant leak problem.

To see what I was doing, I had to pull almost all of the body panels off. Here is the scooter undressed:


Turns out the problem is with the little cooling line going to the carb. But it wasn't that the hose pulled off the fitting, the fitting on the carb broke. I can't imagine that in checking the stator output I pulled on the hose hard enough to break the fitting, so I think the timing must have been coincidence.

Here are a couple of photos of the broken fitting on the carb:




Here is a photo of the fitting pulled off the carb:

The really interesting thing is the back:

You can see there is no hole. So this fitting is just a little heat sink to keep the carb locally cool. Quite amazing. Hard to believe the little amount of cooling this would provide is really necessary. In fact, I've seen a couple of threads were people have been advised by their dealers to just plug the line; I can see why. But on the other hand, if it wasn't necessary, I'm sure the Chineese would have ditched it long ago to save costs. So,
I'm going to try to glue the thing back together with JB Weld or this fiberglass reinforced polyester putty I have for fixing boats.

By the way, while I had the seat box off I also found this coming off the top of the cylinder head:

I'm guessing this is part of the emissions system. Looks like a rat chewed through the hose.

Cheers,
Gary

[Gary]

Automatic -
Fortunately I have not had to put any real money into the Viva above what I paid for it ($1800, which is dirt cheap), just time. I knew going in there would be problems, but so far its actually been a fun learning experience overcoming them. The scooter runs very well and it hasn't left me stranded anywhere (I was lucky the coolant leak happened close to home).

Do I lust after the Kymco? Absolutely. Will I get one in the future? Probably. I'm definately hooked on scooting and can easily justify the expense. But for now, I'm still having 'fun' with the Viva. If/when the fun stops, I'll buy a kymco in a heartbeat.
Gary

Thanks and enjoy your people.
Gary

[90GTVert]

I think you'll find that the inspection hatch screw (under the seat) that is directly above this breather hose is what caused the hose damage. Tank actually put out a bulletin on this (their solution was to remove the screw), but it was confidential so it wasn't to be published. Go figure!

I would just bypass the broken carb warmer fitting since it really does little to nothing for you unless maybe if you live in an area where carb icing is a problem. I suggest flying under 5,000 feet and you should be fine. ;D Stan

gary505 said:

Thanks Stan and Ollie.

After the appropriate amount of cooling off time (about an hour for the scooter, about a week for me), I finally decided to dig in to the coolant leak problem.

To see what I was doing, I had to pull almost all of the body panels off. Here is the scooter undressed:


Turns out the problem is with the little cooling line going to the carb. But it wasn't that the hose pulled off the fitting, the fitting on the carb broke. I can't imagine that in checking the stator output I pulled on the hose hard enough to break the fitting, so I think the timing must have been coincidence.

Here are a couple of photos of the broken fitting on the carb:




Here is a photo of the fitting pulled off the carb:

The really interesting thing is the back:

You can see there is no hole. So this fitting is just a little heat sink to keep the carb locally cool. Quite amazing. Hard to believe the little amount of cooling this would provide is really necessary. In fact, I've seen a couple of threads were people have been advised by their dealers to just plug the line; I can see why. But on the other hand, if it wasn't necessary, I'm sure the Chineese would have ditched it long ago to save costs. So,
I'm going to try to glue the thing back together with JB Weld or this fiberglass reinforced polyester putty I have for fixing boats.

By the way, while I had the seat box off I also found this coming off the top of the cylinder head:

I'm guessing this is part of the emissions system. Looks like a rat chewed through the hose.

Cheers,
Gary

[brycegtx]

Hello Gary:
It appears the pipe on the valve cover is probably part of the PVC or "Positive Crankcase Ventilation". You're right, it part of the emissions. The goal of PVC is to remove blowby vapors from the crankcase send them into the engine intake to be burned.

The other water connection to the carb is from what I have read used to heat the starting enrichment valve to make it close earlier or as soon as the coolant warms up. Seems to me, it would also serve to keep the enrichment valve from opening when the engine is hot.

I hope this helps you,
Bryce

[Gary]

Stan, Bryce -
Thanks so much for your input. So its a heater not a cooler. Makes sense. Anyway, didn't get your info until after I fixed it.

Used my marine grade bondo to stick the parts back together:



(I know it looks like the pats are held together with blue bubblegum, but this stuff is tough as nails.)

Put the heater back in, refilled the coolant, put back on all of the body parts, and fired her up. No leak (and no 'extra' parts). I'm a happy camper!

By the way, this is the 'bondo' I used:

I like the stuff because it is very strong (has chopped up fiberglass in it), its easy to work with (molds like putty), it hardens fast (1 hour), and it seems to adhere to most any surface. I used the same stuff to fix my plastic radiator filler neck - that repair is holding up fine.

And Stan, thanks for the tip on the underseat screw.

Gary

[scooterollie]

Gary;
Boy, has this been trial by fire for you! You probably now know more about how this body style scoot comes apart and goes back together than most anyone here! That is amazing. Here we were all trying to suggest the more simple solutions. Who knew the extent of the problem. Know what you mean about " 1 week for me to cool off"! Great time to thoroughly inspect everything else, use a ton of zip ties and check on the routing of all hoses and wires. Good time - if you have not already done so - to replace all the hoses with better quality. You can thoroughly check things but still miss stuff. I did that on the assembly inspection when I missed a hidden coolant hose that was pinched closed. Caused the system to blow a hose off the nipple at the water pump and possibly damage the head gasket.

[Gary]

Ollie -
Thanks. This is all new to me. The forum has been a great help. So many people willing to share thoughts, tips, photos, etc. Just terrific.

I am getting plenty of practice taking off the body and putting them back on. But it is a tribute to the Chinese engineering that if you are patient the panels do go on and off without any problems.

It was definitely cool to see the scoot with all of the panels off. I found the rectifier; it's so tiny - about an inch across. From the photos, I thought it was the size of a fist. I was frankly rather impressed at most of what I saw. The layout was clean; there were already tie wraps in places that needed them, etc. The hoses seemed of decent quality at least. Even the hose clamps, while light, seemed sufficient. So I really didn't see much of anything I felt compelled to change - That's certainly not what I expected and was a pleasant surprise.

Gary

PS: Allnewsports sent me a replacement stator so I'll

[Gary]

Stan -
I checked the inspection cover under the seat and you were right on (again). There are two holes in the cover where screws could go - one forward and one back. The forward one is smack dab over the emissions hose, so if you put a screw in there it will poke holes in the tube.

Guess which one I picked (before reading your post)? Sure enough, the forward one! After just a short ride, the emmisons hose already had a hole in it. Moving to the back hole solves the problem; there is nothing below that hole for the screw to hit. And one screw is plenty to hold the inspection cvoer in place.

Thanks again for your help!
Gary

[90GTVert]

Even though Tank's solution was to just leave the screw out, I disagree with their "bush repair" solution. I took both screws and ground the tip off them and rounded them so they can't puncture the hose and are a little shorter. I still have all my screws in place (maybe not in my head though) and there is clearance for the hose. Stan

gary505 said:

Stan -
I checked the inspection cover under the seat and you were right on (again). There are two holes in the cover where screws could go - one forward and one back. The forward one is smack dab over the emissions hose, so if you put a screw in there it will poke holes in the tube.

Guess which one I picked (before reading your post)? Sure enough, the forward one! After just a short ride, the emmisons hose already had a hole in it. Moving to the back hole solves the problem; there is nothing below that hole for the screw to hit. And one screw is plenty to hold the inspection cvoer in place.

Thanks again for your help!
Gary

[scooterollie]

Stan;

"...I still have all my screws in place (maybe not in my head though)..."

How about your marbles?