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Post by Gary on Apr 23, 2007 17:29:43 GMT -5
My new Viva tourer is running nicely, but after a few days of riding, the battery dies and the scoot won't start. If I recharge the battery with a battery tender, all seems well again for a few days. If I just let the scoot sit in the garage, the battery doesn't seem to drain down.
I asked the dealer about this and they said I need to keep the battery on the tender every night. This doesn't sound right to me - my Tank 150 starts fine every day without being on the tender. I presume there is a problem with the charging system on the Viva, so I need to look for loose wires, a blown fuse, or maybe a bad stator. Agreed?
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Post by scooterollie on Apr 23, 2007 21:00:43 GMT -5
Is the "Dealer" really a "Dealer" or just an importer? Sounds like they don't know what they are talking about! As you know from your other scoot, the battery should be OK for up to several weeks. I believe the 250s have a higher output charging system on them, anyway, than the 50s & 150s. You should determine if the battery is at fault before getting into the charging system of your scoot.
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Post by mickster on Apr 23, 2007 21:10:01 GMT -5
Most likely it has a bad regulator or a wiring problem.
If you don't have any electrical knowlege this will be a bit complicated to fix.
What you need to do is use a voltmeter and do some voltage checks with the bike off and with it running.
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Post by Gary on Apr 24, 2007 10:56:45 GMT -5
Ollie: The "dealer" is allnewsports in Kansas. And yes, what the salesman told me doesn't make sense.
Mickster: Will be breaking out the voltmeter to check things out. Also have a new Yuasa battery on order just to be sure its not a problem with the OEM battery.
One other interesting observation. I charged the battery while it was connected to the scooter last night. Normally he charger will switch from fast charge (red Light) to maintenance mode (green light) on an overnight charge. But this morning the red light was still on. The other time I charged the same battery, it was not connected to the scooter, and the light switched to green overnight.
This scooter doesn't have an alarm or radio, so those aren't the problem.
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Post by A J on Apr 24, 2007 22:37:10 GMT -5
I had the same problem with my Viva 250.
After about 240 miles it quit charging and the battery went dead.
Recharged the battery and it ran OK, but I noticed that evening the lights were dim while driving home. I put a voltmeter on the battery ans started her up. No increase in voltage. I ran it a few days by just charging it every time I got it home. Finally go t to the dealer and they checked it out and said it had a loose wire. Hope yours is just a loose wire too.
I have replaced a few of the connectors in the wiring under the front cowl as they are CHEAP Chinese junk.
The voltage at the battery when charging should be between 13 and 14 volts.
AJ
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Post by Gary on Apr 24, 2007 23:33:16 GMT -5
Thanks AJ. I've noticed a couple of wires under the front cowl that are not connected. I'll have to see if I can figure out where these are supposed to go ...
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Post by banditms on Apr 25, 2007 1:05:39 GMT -5
Gary, Your situation sounds alot like a failed charging system on your scooter. Your dealer would of course, want you to believe that charging your battery every night is normal... seems that would be in their best interests. ( - ; First, you indicate your battery takes and holds a charge, it can sit by itself or in the scooter when not running for a period of time. But get a volt meter and check it anyways... it should read about 12.2-12.8 volts just sitting there by itself. Second, you need to check your charging system which is a part of your stator (alternator). You have three thigns happening coming off your stator... charging the battery, providing power for the system, and providing 'zap' for the coil and sparker plug. Easiest way to check is to start your scooter, and then disconnect your battery. Your scooter should stay running, if the power system is fine. Your lights will be dim and your blinkers may not blink when the engine is at an idle, but you can rev up the engine rpm's and see the lights brighten up. If all this is true, your system power and 'zap' for the spark plug is good. Three, run to the refrigerator and get one beer... brand and flavor of your choice. Open and consume before approaching the scooter to check your charging system. With the battery installed, and the scooter running, you should get a voltage of 13-14 volts when you check the battery terminals with a volt meter. Since this is a higher value of volts over the stand alone battery, it's the simplest way to determine if your charging system is working. If it's less than 12 volts, your charging system is not functioning correctly... or a wire is loose. There are also parameters for checking the stator, ohm resistance will show if it's good or not... Oh yeah, don't read the info on this subject on Yahoo! groups for chinese scooters. I believe all of them are wrong... or at very the least, very confused... LOL. And it could also be a loose wire too... but the part failure is far more likely... Let us know what you find... Thanks, Jim J... Bandit MotorSports www.bandit-motorsports.com |
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Post by Gary on Apr 25, 2007 8:31:06 GMT -5
Jim,
Thanks for the great tutorial! I'll be checking the charging system over the next few days.
Gary
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Post by 12string on May 1, 2007 6:39:56 GMT -5
Gary,
Did you get you charging system fixed yet? What was the problem?
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Post by knorrtech on May 1, 2007 10:39:59 GMT -5
Hope you find the problem, I have the same issue with a new JMStar Chinese scooter, from what I have been reading, it seams like the tank and the viva 250's and my JMSTar have the same issues. One of my parts in the gas/line system reads "tank". So I will be following this and troubleshotting with the instructions from Jims' post.
I did purchase and replace the battery, this battery does not drain down to .3 like the OEM but is does drain every 24-36 hours. I do have an alarm but and will disarms it.
The wires are under my cowl as well. I found 1 in which they twist the 3 gound wire together and the wires are completely exposed.
Will be interested it what you find.
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Post by Gary on May 1, 2007 15:59:22 GMT -5
No luck yet. In fact, the problems are getting worse. Now the headlights don't work (except when using the passing switch) and the brake lights stay on all the time that the ignition is on. I pulled the front cowl but didn't find anything obvious that I thought could cause the problem. There are some connectors that are unplugged, but there aren't mating connectors, so I'm guessing these were to connect an alarm or radio, which I don't have.
I also checked the fuse box. No blown fuzes, but they all seem loose and not making good contact.
To add to my problems, the other day I somehow got gear oil all over my CVT belt. (I changed the gear oil the day before and guess it wasn't properly sealed back up.) Even after cleaning the mess up as best I can, the belt is still slipping.
Needless to say, not my best week.
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Post by Gary on May 2, 2007 10:48:01 GMT -5
Well, some progress. Got the headlights back on at least. The problem was a loose connection at the fuze box. I had pulled the fuzes to check them, then when I plugged them back in the connector on one side moved so it didn't make contact. (Not the best design). My solution was to take the fuze box off the mounting and push the connectors on the fuzes from underneath, to make sure there is a solid connection.
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Post by 12string on May 2, 2007 11:25:23 GMT -5
How about the charging problem?
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Post by Gary on May 2, 2007 17:04:09 GMT -5
The scoots still not charging. I've looked through much of the wiring and found nothing amiss so far, other than the bad connections at the fuse box which only affected the headlights. Allnewsports should be sending me a new stator. Will post if that does anything.
I did get a new Yuasa battery as a backup. I keep it in the underseat storage along with a pair of scooter-sized jumper cables I got a Kragen. So I can jump start myself if needed.
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Post by chuckklr98 on May 3, 2007 9:26:32 GMT -5
My tank/Viva 250 won't charge either. Stator puts out. Battery won't charge. Put in for different voltage regulaters. Last one lasted about 1 hour then kabut!
Any ideas?
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Post by 12string on May 3, 2007 9:45:44 GMT -5
Sounds like a defect in the Viva regulator, were they all from the dealer or have you tried aftermarket regulator?
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Post by Gary on May 3, 2007 10:41:05 GMT -5
Chuck,
Thanks - this helps identify the problem. I haven't checked the output of the stator yet, because I don't know where it is. Any tips? Ditto for the voltage regulator.
Thanks!
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Post by chuckklr98 on May 3, 2007 17:15:07 GMT -5
Sounds like a defect in the Viva regulator, were they all from the dealer or have you tried aftermarket regulator? All oem chinese. Will try to retrofit a car regulator soon. |
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Post by chuckklr98 on May 3, 2007 17:19:43 GMT -5
Chuck, Thanks - this helps identify the problem. I haven't checked the output of the stator yet, because I don't know where it is. Any tips? Ditto for the voltage regulator. Thanks! Follow the wires coming out of the right side of the motor.unplug them. You should have 35 volts ac coming out.Rev motor and the volts should increase. |
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Post by buckeyescoot on Jun 18, 2007 21:00:21 GMT -5
Hey Gary - Buckeyescoot in Cincy, OH. I having the same issue with my Bali 250 as well. Took the wiring harness apart to check from loose wires or bad connections. Replaced the battery. Going to try the regulator if I can get All New Sports to send me the part.
Just charging up every night and reading the forums for some ideas to try. Hang in there. If I get good results I will let you know. I think I will re-read Jim's post from Bandit Motorsports and see if some of the recommendations helps me hunt down the problem.
Joe (Buckeyescoot)
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Post by Gary on Jun 19, 2007 13:40:04 GMT -5
Good luck Joe. I don't think I've seen a post from anyone who has actually fixed the non-charging problem.
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Post by banditms on Jun 20, 2007 11:15:09 GMT -5
Hey Gary,
Is your charging system working yet? Did you get a replacement stator from AllNewSports? Did you put the battery into the scooter, and check the volts at the battery terminals while the scooter was running? If your charging system is working correctly, you should have about 13-14 volts at the battery terminals...
Thanks, Jim J...
Bandit MotorSports
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Post by Gary on Jun 20, 2007 11:41:16 GMT -5
Jim -
The charging system is not working yet. I did get a new battery, but the voltage reading remains about 12.4 volts whether the engine is running or not, so clearly the scoot isn't charging. I have not pressed Allnew on the replacment stator, since it seems that others have replaced the stator, voltage regulator and rectifier (diode), all without fixing the charging problem. I was hoping someone would come up with a magic bullet solution.
Thanks,
Gary
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Post by Nopster_H on Jun 20, 2007 14:46:46 GMT -5
Hello All,
I have Viva 250 Roaster & Helix. The Helix stator output about 9VAC on each leg to gnd, my Viva stator outputing 2-3VAC each leg...yup, it's bad. Found couple of websites that carry the stator but both are "out-of-stock" ! They are...
//www.partsforscooters.com/Vehicle-Type/250cc-Magneto-Stator-Assembly
....sorry I lost the other one (bookmark)....
Anyone knows of other place to get parts ?
Nop
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Post by banditms on Jun 20, 2007 15:50:28 GMT -5
Gary,
Does your head light and tail light function correctly at this time? In the past, when we've have a Volt Reg failure, it usually takes out both front and rear lights (not the blinkers). In that scenario, its a dead giveaway that the Volt Reg has failed.
You can check the Volt Reg for Ohm resitance by touching the green wire from the Reg and a ground on the bike frame. Any resistance would be OK. You can also check the 3-wires in Yellow that are all together in one connector at the Volt Reg and they should have 5-8 volts...
Given our experience with these things, I'd vote for the Stator failing on it's own... but checking the Volt Reg will determine everything...
Thanks, Jim J...
Bandit MotorSports
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Post by Gary on Jun 20, 2007 18:08:28 GMT -5
Jim,
My lights are fine, but I will check the voltage regulator as you suggest in any case.
Thanks!
Gary
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Post by buckeyescoot on Jun 25, 2007 12:11:39 GMT -5
Hey Jim (banditms) Quick questions.
I am having the same problem with my Roketa Bali 250 not charging as Gary is having with his Viva 250. I read your post on how to troubleshoot the possible charging problems and thought I would try the same.
I did the process where I disconnected the battery once the scooter was started and it died immediately after I removed the positive feed from the Battery terminal.
To test the stator. Do you disconnect the three yellow wires connector from the volt regulator? Do you leave it connected and stick a probe in the backside of the connector or test it in some other way?
If you do disconnect to test, do you start the scooter first and disconnect the connector or disconnect and then start the scooter (or would the scooter even start) ?
With the volt meter, test with the red lead. Black lead to the frame or to where the wire would normally connect?
Testing voltage and or charging problems is a new process for me so I hope these are not real stupid questions. I have a simple digital volt meter from Radio Shack that I have borrowed from a friend for the duration of this troubleshooting problems but have not really used one before.
If you or other have some directions or can direct me to a link or a post that\outlines some troubleshooting "How to's" that would be great.
Joe (buckeyescoot)
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