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Post by michaelc on Sept 19, 2006 13:07:37 GMT -5
Sunday evening, I did my ritual car wash trip with the Xciting for her weekly bath and wax. During the wax, I noticed that the left disc on the front wheel seemed more worn-in then the right so after I finished, I took a little ride around the neighborhood. Once complete, I did a quick check of each disc to see if they were both working, low and behold, the left disc was warm as one would expect, but the right was cool. I'm thinking, 'that's not right', so I took the scoot to my dealer to have it checked out. I got a call today saying that there is nothing wrong, the scoot has what's called an 'Integrated Braking System'.
An 'Integrated Braking System' apparently ties the right front disc and caliper in with the rear disc and caliper so that people who don't use the front brake for 'fear of flipping the bike' (the techs words, not mine) still get the benefit of braking on both the front and rear wheels. I did a search on KYMCo's web site and read the braking section of the manual and kind find no reference to an 'Integrated Braking System'. I'm hoping that one of you Great Big Guru Dawgs have heard of this and can assure me this tech isn't just pulling my leg.
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Post by woodlark on Sept 19, 2006 13:22:50 GMT -5
I'm aware of "Integrated Braking Systems" where braking is proportioned between front and rear, but I believe it should still use both front discs equally. I would think it much more likely that you have a stuck caliper on the right side.
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Post by michaelc on Sept 19, 2006 13:33:28 GMT -5
I'm aware of "Integrated Braking Systems" where braking is proportioned between front and rear, but I believe it should still use both front discs equally. I would think it much more likely that you have a stuck caliper on the right side. That's what I was thinking but I don't want to mess with it to much and void the warranty! |
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Post by scooterdog on Sept 19, 2006 14:44:28 GMT -5
You are describing the same type of system I had on my previous scoot-the Aprilia Atlantic. And I am pretty sure mine worked as you described yours. You might try this for a test. Drive for a while and use only the front brakes for several stops. Then pull over and feel (carefully) to see if they are about the same temp. Should be if both are sqeezing the same. The application of just one front rotor makes sense to me on the proportioned braking system. No such niceties on the Tank 250, but hey man, we DO have ABS (Sort of :~) )
scooterdog
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Post by scooterollie on Sept 19, 2006 14:45:27 GMT -5
michaelc;
I believe your dealer IS correct, you do have the integrated braking system. Try a short, low speed run and carefully apply only the right/front brake to stop. Immediately check that rotor and it should be warm/hot. With the integrated system, you really only need to use the front (third) brake for extra hard/emergency stopping since the left brake lever gives you the "integrated" application of braking with both wheels. I personally like the integrated system - think it makes safety sense.
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Post by ddillon on Sept 19, 2006 15:48:20 GMT -5
Michael,
The tech is definitely not pulling your leg. The X-citing 250 and 500 do have an Integrated Braking System. Some people I have talked to call it linked braking. If you were not aware you had it you might not even notice it. I forget if it is the left or right brake lever that is linked but the best way to test this is to put the scooter on the center stand and squeeze each lever. While doing this try to spin the front and rear wheel. One of the levers will lock both wheels up. This is tricky if you don't have long reach but I am 6'1" so I was able to do it. It would be much easier to get a second person to hold each brake lever while you try to spin the wheels.
BTW you wash and wax your scoot too? I do mine every other Sunday morning ;D
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Post by scooterollie on Sept 19, 2006 15:58:17 GMT -5
For an integrated system, the left lever should operate both rear & one front caliper, right lever, front only on the other caliper.
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Post by ddillon on Sept 19, 2006 19:18:58 GMT -5
Scooterollie,
Yes, that is correct. I went for a ride tonight with this in mind and that is exactly how the X-citing 250's braking works. However, you would swear that the right brake lever was clamping down on both rotors in the front because the right brake seems to have a lot more bite than the left. Is it possible that the right lever is operating both front calipers? The left lever is definitely the one that is linked. I am going to do some more checking tomorrow.
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Post by woodlark on Sept 19, 2006 19:20:51 GMT -5
Well, I learned at least one new thing today  |
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Post by ddillon on Sept 19, 2006 19:31:05 GMT -5
Woodlark,
I would be surprised if your Burgman did not have linked braking as well. Do you know for sure if it doesn't?
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Post by jwheelermd on Sept 19, 2006 20:26:15 GMT -5
Honda Reflex has linked braking (combined braking system, they call it). Attached is a diagram that shows how it works (if it transfers....)
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Post by woodlark on Sept 19, 2006 21:19:17 GMT -5
Per the Suzuki Service Manual, the Burgman 650 brake system is not linked. The Executive model does have ABS brakes on the front, but it is still not a linked system.
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Post by scooterollie on Sept 19, 2006 22:10:19 GMT -5
ddillon;
That might be possible. You should be able to to tell even sitting still. Have someone squeeze the right lever while you carefully feel the area of contact between the pads and rotor on each rotor.
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Post by robbovius on Sept 20, 2006 7:54:20 GMT -5
Honda Reflex has linked braking (combined braking system, they call it). Attached is a diagram that shows how it works (if it transfers....) can I get a magnifying glass to go with that? ;-) |
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2006 10:09:12 GMT -5
OK, picked up the scoot last night and did some checking. Indeed, when you use the left brake lever, the right front disc and the rear disc engage while the left front does not. So, all this time that I've been breaking mostly with the right lever, thinking I was breaking more with the front dual discs an less with the rear, I was actually only braking with the left front disc. Call me weird, but this seems backwards to me. Logically, wouldn't it make more sense to have the right lever 'linked' as opposed to the left? Think about it, every motorcycle I've ever been on, the right lever is the front brake while the rear is the right foot pedal. Why would this be the opposite on a scoot?
Dave, my thoughts on why the right brake lever seems to grip better then the left. The right lever is only having to work on one caliper and one disc whereas the left is working on two. Basic physics says you would have to squeeze twice as hard on the left lever to get the same amount of 'work' on the two discs as the right lever on the one. One more thing, I've checked, and the right brake does NOT operate both front calipers.
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Post by ddillon on Sept 20, 2006 13:35:08 GMT -5
Michael,
Thanks for that info. Now I don't have to check ;D Isn't it crazy how we obsess over these things? What you said makes sense about the right biting better than the left. BTW do you know what the life of these brake pads are? I have 2690 miles on the scoot and as far as I can see the pads are fine and look to have plenty of life left. The brakes have not squeaked once since I got the scooter. If the brake pads needed to be replaced they would squeak right?
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2006 14:48:56 GMT -5
Dave,
I really do not know how long the pads will last. I know that on a car, the type of driving makes a big difference. Cars that spend most of their time on the highway will not need their brakes replaced as often as one that does primarily city driving, so mileage is not an accurate gauge. I also would not wait until you hear anything since usually by them, you've trashed a disc. I try to do a general inspection of all my motorized vehicles once a month. Just monitor them and if they seem to be getting thin, go ahead and replace them.
Have you noticed also that when you use the 'linked' (left lever) system, you don’t hear that 'chirping' noise, but when you use the left front alone (right lever) you do??
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Post by ddillon on Sept 20, 2006 18:51:08 GMT -5
Micheal,
Yes I have noticed that. No chirping on the left. Chirping on the right. However, the chirping seemed to tone down a bit over time. Either that or I am just so used to it I don't notice it as much any more. Do you also get an occasional click from the front brake? Sounds like something is clicking into action. I think the clicking may be the speedo/odo cable connector. I have no idea what causes that humming bird sound but the brakes are phenomenal and the dealer said they were fine so I have just come to the conclusion that this is a sound the brakes will make and there is nothing mechanically wrong.
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Post by michaelc on Sept 21, 2006 6:55:59 GMT -5
Dave,
Actually, the Xciting does not have a true speedo cable. The sccot has a 'digital', or more accuratley, an 'electronic' dash as opposed to the direct cable system used on the Chineese scoots. The black wire, sensor, and slotted rotor you see on the right side of the front wheel is an optical sensor that is used to feed the dash to indicate speed. I, too, sometimes hear the 'click' you mentioned but thought it was just a rock or something from the road.
I agree with you on the brakes, they are fantastic! The scoot will stop on a dime!! ;D
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Post by ddillon on Sept 21, 2006 10:20:38 GMT -5
Michael, Yes, I know the X-citing does not have a standard speedo cable. I was referring to the black connector with the wire but after closer inspection this morning I don't think that is where the clicking comes from. In any case it really does not matter because like you said this scoot stops on a dime. I am really looking forward to getting the 500 this coming Spring. The first order of business after break-in will be this exhaust: scootertrap.com/Xciting500.htmIn addition to lighter variator weights, carb adjustments and a less restrictive air filter. The 500 weighs 66lbs more than the 250, however I have been told that the stock exhausts on these are very heavy and the after market pipe will shed 25-30lbs so with the new exhaust the 500 will only be 41-46lbs heavier than the 250 with double the displacement. That should make the 500's performance substantially better than the 250. I am also very curious to see what type of goodies Dawg gets from MRP for the 250 and what the results are. |
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Post by mgreenfield on Sept 21, 2006 18:20:53 GMT -5
Burgman 400 thru 06 had integrated brakes. This was abandoned for 07 models. Front brake had a single disk, BUT x2 sets of calipers on it. My 05 works great. Maybe they work better on scoots than cycles because less nose-dive on braking with scoots. My braking technique is to squeeze both levers equally at every stop. Rear brake on most 2-wheelers is quite a bit smaller than front, so little danger of locking up rear with equal pressure on both brakes, unless absolute panic stop almost completely unloads rear wheel.
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Post by gusset on Sept 21, 2006 22:59:33 GMT -5
Personally, I'm glad my scoot (Daelim S2-250) does not have linked or integrated brakes. Being able to apply the rear only is a great help for slow speed maneuvers; making a tight U-turn and getting a dose of front brake is a good way to get scratches on the bodywork.
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