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Post by woodlark on Aug 5, 2006 7:06:52 GMT -5
Yesterday, I drove to Atlanta and picked up a new 250cc scooter. Like all of these Chinese scooters, figuring out the brand is a challenge. On the rear-side it says "Hammer 25", on the footboards it says "Wussi", and the MS says it was made by JMStar and imported by Baron. It is black and silver, and I have ordered a large silver trunk to put on it. When I get the trunk installed I'll take pictures to share. ;D
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Post by scooterollie on Aug 5, 2006 7:19:36 GMT -5
woodlark;
Congratulations! You have a 250 assembled by a different company than others here. It will be interesting to compare stories. What is the body style - as compared with Tank or Roketa? Is the rear tire a 10" or 12"? From reports here and elsewhere, I would drain the coolant and refill with a known brand. Check all hose clamps very carefully and keep an eye on the temp. gauge. Any signs of serious overheating and I would shut off the scoot before damage is done to the engine. Don't try to go the 10 miles back to the house with the heat gauge pegged!
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Post by Aaron on Aug 5, 2006 9:16:05 GMT -5
Yes Woodlark congratulations and I will be following your story. I have noticed the Wussi's on Ebay. Never saw one before the picture of the Phantom clone Extremerpr posted in the custom scooter pics. Can't wait for the photos!
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 5, 2006 9:48:01 GMT -5
Based on my conversations with Baron, this would be one that they contracted for another company. They say it is a cheaper version of the Baron branded scooter, but they (like most) won't elaborate on what is done to make them cheaper. There is probably little or no difference other than Baron doesn't warranty the product and leaves that up to the company that bought them to compete with Tank, Viva, etc... Good luck with it, and keep us posted. Stan Yesterday, I drove to Atlanta and picked up a new 250cc scooter. Like all of these Chinese scooters, figuring out the brand is a challenge. On the rear-side it says "Hammer 25", on the footboards it says "Wussi", and the MS says it was made by JMStar and imported by Baron. It is black and silver, and I have ordered a large silver trunk to put on it. When I get the trunk installed I'll take pictures to share. ;D |
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Post by woodlark on Aug 5, 2006 10:31:42 GMT -5
Stan, Thanks for the tip about the coolant. Is normal automotive coolant (Peak or Prestone, etc.) ok?
It looks a lot like the Tank Touring (same mirrors and everything). The rear tire is a 10". There is one identical to it on EBay right now by a company called Lucky7Motorsports. The guy I bought it from bought 10 of them from BargainJim's in Minneapolis (which I think is actually Baron isn't it?) He paid $15,000 plus shipping. I got it from him for $1625.
The speedometer has major markings in km/h and minor markings in mph. I assume this means the odometer is in km.
I love these "Chinglish" owners manuals, e.g., "Don't use counterfeit oil, if else happen easily accident".
It lists gasoline to use as "90#". I assume that means 90 octane. I read somewhere , maybe on this forum, that the Chinese calculate octane differently. Should I use Regular (87) , mid-range (89) or premium (92)?
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 5, 2006 11:05:17 GMT -5
There are several octane ratings, and in the US, you can use 87 octane without a problem. You need to use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water (you can buy premix) but the important thing is make sure it is rated for use in aluminum engines. Be very careful when filling to make sure you get all the air out of the system, which takes several minutes. I'd replace all of the cooling line clamps, and the vacuum lines. I also suggest replacing the fuel filter, fuel lines and spark plug (if you have a Chinese plug), as well as the gear oil and the engine oil right away. Stan Stan, Thanks for the tip about the coolant. Is normal automotive coolant (Peak or Prestone, etc.) ok? It looks a lot like the Tank Touring (same mirrors and everything). The rear tire is a 10". There is one identical to it on EBay right now by a company called Lucky7Motorsports. The guy I bought it from bought 10 of them from BargainJim's in Minneapolis (which I think is actually Baron isn't it?) He paid $15,000 plus shipping. I got it from him for $1625. The speedometer has major markings in km/h and minor markings in mph. I assume this means the odometer is in km. I love these "Chinglish" owners manuals, e.g., "Don't use counterfeit oil, if else happen easily accident". It lists gasoline to use as "90#". I assume that means 90 octane. I read somewhere , maybe on this forum, that the Chinese calculate octane differently. Should I use Regular (87) , mid-range (89) or premium (92)? |
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Post by scooterollie on Aug 5, 2006 13:44:29 GMT -5
woodlark;
Sounds like yours is a Honda clone drive train, just like most of the rest of ours. That was a great price for a 250! Like Stan said, any name brand antifreeze specified for aluminum heads/blocks. I prefer Zerex G-05, which is a hybrid, low acid formulation made specifically for Mercedes/VW. You can get it at NAPA and Pep Boys but it may have to be ordered. It is not a regular shelf-stock item at most auto stores and is more expensive than regular stuff. Since you live in a warmer climate, you may be able to get away with 60% water/40% antifreeze but you can't go wrong with 50/50 for the additional additives for cooling system protection. A NAPA #3011 gas filter is what many of us use but any good name brand small engine filter will be OK. The stock ones are very small and restrictive, plus they often fail and leak gas. Check the arrow for gas flow when installing it. If you can, mount it vertically, with the output in the direction of the carb. How is the idle speed? Most Chinese scoots have to be set up to around 1500 rpm - they seem to come set kinda low. Remove the access plate over the carb. )located under the seat). You will see the idle adjustment screw there. If you don't have a tach, adjust it by sound. These scoots idle slower when cold and if the idle is not high enough, they tend to stall out until warmed up. You don't want it to idle so fast that the clutch begins to engage and spin the rear wheel.
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Post by scooterollie on Aug 5, 2006 13:46:06 GMT -5
woodlark;
Sounds like yours is a Honda clone drive train, just like most of the rest of ours. That was a great price for a 250! Like Stan said, any name brand antifreeze specified for aluminum heads/blocks. I prefer Zerex G-05, which is a hybrid, low acid formulation made specifically for Mercedes/VW. You can get it at NAPA and Pep Boys but it may have to be ordered. It is not a regular shelf-stock item at most auto stores and is more expensive than regular stuff. Since you live in a warmer climate, you may be able to get away with 60% water/40% antifreeze but you can't go wrong with 50/50 for the additional additives for cooling system protection. A NAPA #3011 gas filter is what many of us use but any good name brand small engine filter will be OK. The stock ones are very small and restrictive, plus they often fail and leak gas. Check the arrow for gas flow when installing it. If you can, mount it vertically, with the output in the direction of the carb. How is the idle speed? Most Chinese scoots have to be set up to around 1500 rpm - they seem to come set kinda low. Remove the access plate over the carb. (located under the seat). You will see the idle adjustment screw there. If you don't have a tach, adjust it by sound. These scoots idle slower when cold and if the idle is not high enough, they tend to stall out until warmed up. You don't want it to idle so fast that the clutch begins to engage and spin the rear wheel.
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Post by ddillon on Aug 5, 2006 16:47:12 GMT -5
I have some info that may or may not be true about why Baron is selling the Wussi's. Back before I was a member of this forum I was shopping for a scooter and was about six hours away from ordering a Tank 250 online. Thats when I came across this forum and I had exchanged a few emails with Lee. Based on those emails I decided not to go with the Tank (this was about 3-4 days before I purchased the Kymco P250). After deciding against the Tank I was still shopping around online and considered the Baron PM 250. I called Bargain Jims and spoke to a gentleman over there. I do not remember what this person's name was. Does Lev answer the phones over there? If so it could have been him but I really have no idea. Anyway the point is I called Bargain Jims to inquire about the PM 250. After speaking with this person on the phone I was not convinced that the Baron was any better of a machine than the other Chinese 250's so I told him I did not think I wanted to spend $3K for virtually the same bike I could get for $2300 just because it had the Baron badging. At that point he tried to sell me these Wussi scooters. The story he gave me was that Bargain Jims had just received a shipment of Wussi 250's and they were virtually the same as the PM250 just a different name. They wanted $2500. The story this guy gave me was that the Wussi's were manufactured for Puerto Rico but something happened (cannot remember the exact reason he gave me) and they were not shipped there and because of it they had these scooters in stock. Anyway if you only paid $1625 it sounds like they were trying to rip me off by offering it to me at $2500. I hope the scooter does not give you any problems. Get those pics up soon ;D
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Post by woodlark on Aug 5, 2006 20:34:16 GMT -5
ddillon: After reading your post, I did a quick check of Bargain Jim's website. From the picture and description, the Baron People Mover 250 and the Wussi appear to be identical except for paint job and labels. Here is a stock photo of what mine looks like:  BTW: It is not called "ripping off", it is called "marketing". Notice that the price point of most Chinese 250's is about $3000, Kymco is about $4000, Honda Helix/Reflex about $5000, Burgman 400/Yamaha Majesty is about $6000 and Honda Silver Wing/ Burgman 650 is about $7000. All of the market segments are provided for. I firmly believe the prices are set by not what it costs the manufacturer to build them, but by what they think they can squeeze out of the buyers. |
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Post by woodlark on Aug 6, 2006 9:44:24 GMT -5
I found the engine oil drain plug with no problem, but I also want to replace the transmission oil, but I don't see any drain plug. Anybody have any idea where it is?
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Post by Aaron on Aug 6, 2006 10:14:46 GMT -5
Woodlark the other 250 reviews mentioned that the transmission oil access is behind the variator cover. So you may have to remove that to get to it! Good time to make sure you have a good belt!
Aaron
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 6, 2006 10:15:33 GMT -5
There are photos in the CVT article in the TT250 section on the Scooter information page of my web site. Stan I found the engine oil drain plug with no problem, but I also want to replace the transmission oil, but I don't see any drain plug. Anybody have any idea where it is? |
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Post by ddillon on Aug 6, 2006 12:36:24 GMT -5
Woodlark when I said they were trying to rip me off I was not referring to the price points of the various scooter manufacturers and qualify levels. What I meant was Bargain Jims was trying to sell me a Wussi at $2500 when you purchased the same bike for $1625. In addition you said you purchased from an ebay seller that purchased 10 of these scooters from Bargain Jims. This guy obviously has to turn a profit on each scooter he sells so if he only charged you $1625 what did he pay for each unit from Bargain Jims??? I have to assume he is making at least $100 per unit. To further my point Bargain Jims also has to make a profit so lets assume for a second this ebay seller is making a min. of $100 per scooter that means Bargain Jims sold them at $1525 per unit max. Now Bargain Jims also has to make their profit so lets assume they are also making a min. of $100 per unit that means they paid $1425 per unit max. So they were trying to sell me a scooter they paid $1425 (probably less) for $2500. To me that is a rip-off. I don't know what the average profit-per-unit is in this Chinese scooter industry but my guess is that it has to be at least $100-200 per unit.
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Post by woodlark on Aug 6, 2006 14:27:14 GMT -5
ddillon,
I wasn't trying to pick on you, actually I was being a little sarcastic about the industry. The guy I bought from paid $1500 each plus about $80.00 shipping each plus interest on a $15,000 loan. He didn't make any money on the deal, and said he'll "never do it again". You are right about Bargain Jim's though. I suspect they are making considerably more than $100-$200 per unit. My point was that they charge $2500-$3000 for the Wussi or Baron 250 simply because they believe they can get it.
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Post by ddillon on Aug 6, 2006 15:46:06 GMT -5
Woodlark,
I know you were not picking on me. I just wanted to clarify that what I meant by "ripped off" was just this one Wussi the guy at Bargain Jims tried to sell me. I think $2500 was high when you can easily get the same bike for $2K or less. No ;D big deal
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Post by scooterollie on Aug 6, 2006 20:43:53 GMT -5
I have noticed prices around the net dropping on 250s. Wonder if the supply has caught up with or exceeded the demand? Saw an '07 Roketa Bali with 24 month, unlimited mileage warranty on engine, drive train, and electricals for $1,999.95 - delivered to your door by Overnight Express.
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