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Post by tp555 on May 16, 2008 19:02:08 GMT -5
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Post by scooterollie on May 16, 2008 19:39:23 GMT -5
JiuJitsu, Thanks for the back up! I usually don't go into all that depth but sometimes it is necessary to convince some folks. My recommendation of this type of oil for hard working gas engines is not recent. It goes back a couple of decades or so - from personal experience and research. The whole oil issue has gotten so much more confusing for folks because of the extreme variety of oils on the shelf today and the very expensive versions put out by some companies. In addition, some folks just seem to get really attached to and defensive of the kind of oil they use and, they don't let facts get in their way. (LOL)
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Post by kspring on May 17, 2008 12:28:19 GMT -5
Wow! That article was informative, although I wish the author cited his sources. The author claims to be studying physics and he or she should know how to cite sources properly.
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Post by JiuJitsu on May 17, 2008 14:06:12 GMT -5
At the end of the article are some:
"If you want to do some research on oils yourself, here are some links. I read all this stuff and I'm still alive, but a bit weird. All about the new CJ-4 oils. Oil viscosity defined. API Service classifications. Everything you ever wanted to know about oil, but were afraid to ask. Here's what an additive package manufacturer has to say about oils. Chevron talks about base oils and GF-4 oils. Consumer Reports tests oils for 4,500,000 miles in NYC taxis. Lubricants primer by Red Line. All about oil by Ed Hackett, a college professor. Oil Advice from Mike Guillory, a petroleum engineer. More Oil Advice. Jeff Di Carlo also has an opinion. Check out the articles in MCN Jan-Feb '03. MCN '94 includes viscosity breakdown testing. Another article that includes viscosity breakdown testing. The history of synthetic oils, only *slightly* self-serving. Oil additives = snake oil? (yes) More on oil additives = snake oil
Mobil wants your money, as does Shell, Valvoline, AMSOil and Spectro Oil. You may be skeptical about the oil companies interests, but they are the people making what we buy so it's interesting to hear who they think we are and what they think we need.
Are Harley oils the best?
FAQs about commercial oils answered by Shell. Are diesel oils really ok for motorcycles?"
The links didn't transfer with my cut and paste, but if you return, you will see he has cited many sources.
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Post by scootervirgin on Jun 19, 2008 15:01:25 GMT -5
Ive been reading these this thread and heres my story. I just got a Bali 150cc scoot and its the best time Ive ever had. I changed out the chinese fluids at 20 miles. I put in your basic Marathon Oil 10w 30. At aprox 150 miles, I emptied the oil and put in Mobil 1 synthetic. I am currently at 270 miles.
In this thread I am reading NOT to put synthetic in until around 1000 miles, because the engine wont "break in" properly. Since I have put aprox 120 miles on the scoot with the Mobil 1 synthetic, should I switch back until I hit the 1000 mile mark? Or is it too late? I want whats best. Thanks all.
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Post by scooterollie on Jun 19, 2008 16:09:59 GMT -5
Scootervirgin, Please post questions in only one place on the forum. Reduces clutter and confusion. Answers can be found at your other post of this question. Thanks!
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Post by scootervirgin on Jun 19, 2008 16:23:28 GMT -5
Sorry, lol I just realized it
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Post by rtslater on Jun 27, 2008 17:23:15 GMT -5
Quick question regarding flushing out a GY6 Honda clone engine and gearbox in a XingYue ITA 150. Can kerosene be used to flush out old oil, chips etc? I am changing the Gearbox oil for the first time; a little late at 1000 miles. David AKA RTSlater
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Post by JiuJitsu on Jun 30, 2008 14:01:32 GMT -5
I have never heard of anyone doing that.
I think just draining and refilling is all you need to do.
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Post by gangstarplaya72 on Jul 6, 2008 11:34:16 GMT -5
i used 15w40 part sythentic for my motor oil and 75-90w mobil one gear oil i hope i used the right stuff lol
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 6, 2008 18:48:38 GMT -5
No problem, you are OK with both. After 1K miles, you can go with full synthetic 5W40, if you wish. Just $17/gal. for Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 at Walmart.
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Post by kb on Jul 7, 2008 8:43:58 GMT -5
When in doubt about your oil, have it tested. www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html synthetics are great and if you go the distance can save you money, the reason for oil is to cool and lubricate, some synthetics are not as good as others if you choose to read Amsoil's white pages. If your engine uses a wire screen for a filter, you will need to change it more often. Synthetics are slicker, pump better and last longer than conventional oils (DINO) The GY6 doesn't have a wet clutch like motorcycles so your oil can have "moly" in it. The best reason to use a motorcycle oil is the corrosion inhibitors and thermal breakdown issues but they will cost you more. Paying $17.00 for a gallon of Rotella Synthetic is a good deal when you start looking at a QT. of Mobil 1 motorcycle oil for $8.00 It's about economics for me, I run Amsoil in my Goldwing because I got a very good deal on it, It's a good oil and it works, I use Blackstone labs to test the oil to find out "it's comfort level" on the mileage between oil changes. I bought this scooter to ride to work, errands, and to have fun on (A useful toy) and it has been a blast, I have been using Honda GN4 oil because it was left over from the other motorcycles, when it is gone I will most likely go with the Rotella Syn. I lost track of the post on another board where they were going to get it certified "MA" Another good site is Bobistheoilguy.com The best advise I can give is if it doesn't have an SAE stamp on the bottle, leave it on the self.
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Post by scooterollie on Jul 8, 2008 14:46:24 GMT -5
One thing to remember on our scoots is that we don't have any micron filtering device so large (relatively speaking) particles continue to circulate mile after mile. That's why, IMHO, oil changes should occur once/yr. or every 1-1.5K miles. Also, these engines are turning over 2-3X the RPMs as our car engines.
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Post by pukame2 on Jul 8, 2008 17:15:55 GMT -5
I've been reading the various posts on engine oils and I have decided due the economics of the times, I'll switch to Walmarts Shell Rotella 15W40, gallon size. My Amsoil 5W-30 quart size costs the same as Walmarts', after shipping is factored in. IMO, since I change my oil every 300 miles, the gallon size seems more feasible to me, a retired guy.
Good riding.
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Post by kb on Jul 9, 2008 7:48:09 GMT -5
One thing to remember on our scoots is that we don't have any micron filtering device so large (relatively speaking) particles continue to circulate mile after mile. That's why, IMHO, oil changes should occur once/yr. or every 1-1.5K miles. Also, these engines are turning over 2-3X the RPMs as our car engines. There is a screen to catch the large chunks. ;D Your right that there is no micron filtering, does it need it? How many Brigg's engines out lasted their counterpart? You were left with a good engine and the deck was in the dump. The things that are in the oil is normal wear by-products (metals) and carbon / acids from the combustion process / moisture if the engine never gets hot enough to vaporize it out, with conventional oil, the oil will start to vaporize sooner from temperature than synthetic (oil vapor), that vapor is mixed in with the normal blow-by and is either vented into intake air stream or to the atmosphere. Synthetic oil reduces friction which means less wear particles and reduce the heat of the engine, slicker is better In a nutshell, if you run synthetic oil you need to have it in there longer to justify the cost, if your engine has long periods of time where it is not ran you should use an oil that has more TBN than normal, (found in Motorcycle synthetic oils) This is not a doomsday warning, most oils will do the job, some are better at it, you could throw money at getting your oil tested over and over and switch oils and have them tested over and over and by the time your done with testing to find the limits on which oil does the best you could have spent enough money to buy a new engine. The cheapest way to determine your oils condition is to look at it, does it look like it did when you put it in there? use a flashlight to see if there is any metal flakes, If it comes out like 90w you left it in there way to long. Frequent changes with good oil will work just fine.
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Post by kb on Jul 9, 2008 8:05:10 GMT -5
Ive been reading these this thread and heres my story. I just got a Bali 150cc scoot and its the best time Ive ever had. I changed out the chinese fluids at 20 miles. I put in your basic Marathon Oil 10w 30. At aprox 150 miles, I emptied the oil and put in Mobil 1 synthetic. I am currently at 270 miles. In this thread I am reading NOT to put synthetic in until around 1000 miles, because the engine wont "break in" properly. Since I have put aprox 120 miles on the scoot with the Mobil 1 synthetic, should I switch back until I hit the 1000 mile mark? Or is it too late? I want whats best. Thanks all. IMHO, Synthetic oil during break-in is fine, what will happen is the parts will wear less, which "might" take longer for the rings to seat, (might is the key word) What you have in your engine is metal parts rubbing each other, less friction = less wear. Which would be better? Chinaman oil breaking down and causing problems further down the road at a later date, or knowing you decided for your comfort, you changed oil when you wanted to and used a better oil? You might have done yourself a favor. During the first 1000 miles you should change the oil often to rid any metal that is suspended in the oil or flakes that will wash out at draining, some might do a flush but that doesn't guarantee that it done anything. Frequent changes works, using cheaper oil reduces the cost (compared to Synthetics)
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Post by thedannymullen on Jul 10, 2008 23:11:19 GMT -5
Found this to be interesting.. www.ultimateoiltechnology.com/convertingtoamsoil.htmlI know it pertains to cars, but does discuss engine break in, and that petroleum oil is better for break in. I thought it was interesting that a synthetic oil company sites the one time petro based oil is better.
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