From Stock To AfterMarket

[loudest143]

So I've got my new White Brothers E-Series muffler mated up to my stock exhaust pipe after removing the flange with a grinder wheel. Really an annoying task, cutting through all that pipe.
www.whitebrothers.com/2007/_Atv/exhaust/eseries/eseries.html

It actually ships with a 4 page manual that lists how many disks you can add or remove to simulate different pipes, and what jet sizes may need to be used. I will have 4 disks installed, as that simulates a .96" pipe, as close as I can get to the 1", without going over. Great starting point. I have 12 total disks. Low note, loud enough, a bit quieter than my gutted stock can. It will keep me happy and safe, I think. Odd look, with no through pipe at the endcap.

I have an Emgo Freeflow air filter, 30mm intake, White Brothers exhaust, racing variator with 11g weights. I will be returning my carby to stock, as it is recommended to start that way in the manual, and I will track my findings.

Now as soon as the weather clears, I will be able to take the bike out and time some runs. Of course, here in Ohio, that could be in the next 5 minutes or in 3 months.

Stay tuned. Pun intended. ;D

Loudest143
* how cold is it? It's so cold....

[90GTVert]

Nice exhaust. Good luck with the tuning.

[earlwb]

Pretty neat, let us know who it works.
Post a pic or two of how you installed and mounted it too.

[loudest143]

Back to stock main jet. There is no air mixture adjustment on my carb, as was discussed in another thread by a few folks. I've just got the fuel mixture to fool with. I started at 1 full turn out. Awful idle, no strength through the powerband and it dies before the main jet. Ugly, simply terrible. No adjustments to mixture helped, so on to jet #2, a 105.

**MAIN JET NOTES**

My main jet is labeled as a 200!! It's inner size is much smaller than my 105, and I've had 3 different shop guys look at this thing, and they all confirm the size on the jet, but they all scratched their head and didn't recognize it.... It most certainly has a larger inlet 'funnel' design than the other two jets that I have...I wil try to get some pix, but my camera is not great at small details.... It's got to be a part off the floor of the factory, or a mismarked piece. I've had performance issues, (the bike, not me) since day one, it's been a bit under my expectations, idle and throttle response-wise. I big difference is noticable with throttle when I went to the 105. It just felt stronger and quicker.

105 installed. Bike starts immediately, after a quick throttle twist to get some gas in the carby. Smooth, even idle. Mixture screw is turned in all the way closed! Hmm.... It's sounding and running the smoothest it's ever run, so let's throttle up... Nice and even through midrange, (I previously dropped my needle to a leaner setting) I get to the main jet in the powerband, and shotgun fire ensues! brapbrapbrap Not right, but much closer. Back to idle, and it's still purring, so I need a smaller main jet. With the mixture screw all the way closed, I've got no adjustment..... I will drop down to a smaller size, and find the spot. I intend on picking up a 102, 100, and a 98/95, so I have some choices.

Hopefully I can take it out for a run today after the rejetting. It's still cold, but no ice to content with. I gotta get to the Pony for parts!

loudest143

[earlwb]

If you can post pics of your carb. They very likely hid the air fuel low speed mixture adjustment under a press-on zinc plug of some sort. It's a EPA DOT thing.

That would not surprise me about the jet marked 200. they may have missed drilling it.
That famous Chinese quality control at work.

[loudest143]

Since I'm blogging this thread, let's update. If ya missed my frustration post yesterday, I had to open my diaphragm up again to check the setting on the needle. I had issues in the midrange with a lower main jet, and I found the diaphragm to be not seated properly. I then realized that it's stretched, and severely oversized. I now have to replace it, as it won't fit at all. I will be posting some good exhaust pix, and will take pix of the diaphragm both before and after I take a hammer to it! I cannot believe how close I was to having this whole project finished before this setback. It even got all sunshiney yesterday afternoon, just to mock me. Well, I have to find a part, hopefully locally, as my scooter has it's guts hanging out. I may also have to find a 102 main jet..... I have a bad feeling that the 100 is too small. We shall see.

Stan from Oregon Vintage mentioned that Strada does some things different than other brands..... I wonder if that has anything to do with my chrome intake not fitting right? I will worry about that mess after I get this derned diaphragm sorted out.

loudest143

[loudest143]

**EXHAUST PHOTOS**

White Brothers E-Series Universal Exhaust 1.5" ID inlet.
Inside diameter of exhaust: 2.0"

White Brothers just went out of business last week, so look around for huge deals on their parts. I got mine for less than 50% of retail! **COebayUGH**


The finished product


the removable disk system


superior clamp! pipe is slit, so it will compress well.


hey, there's no hole?! view through the end cap


pipe is 3.5" wide, inside diameter of baffle, 2.0" goo on tail is the anti seize lube for the 6 allen screws, included with the pipe.


i'll have to add a spacer, or roller so the muffler doesn't get gashed by the second support.


pipe sounds great, and the exhaust vents through the disks, so you have to get used to not seeing that tail pipe. There are a number of add ons for this system, and I will look into the silencer, just to find out how much quieter it makes the bike. I don't plan on making it quieter, just wanna know.

loudest143

[loudest143]

**CARBY PHOTOS**

Here is the carb during one of the 37 times I had to take it back off the bike to fuss with something. If anyone can tell me where the double secret government controlled EPA illegal air mixture screw of doom is located, please describe its' location from the pictures.







thanks for reading!
loudest143

[earlwb]

Here it is on your carb. What happened to your automatic enrichener unit?

[earlwb]

That is a pretty neat exhuast setup there too.

[loudest143]

The auto enrichener was removed during the carb adjustment. I take it out to get the carb out, instead of repeatedly removing the shotty cable connector. I hate reterminating molex connectors more than I hate working on carb stuff.

The screw that you point to is the one that I've referred to as the fuel mixture screw. NOW I KNOW MY TERMINOLOGY!! Thanks once again, earlwb! I appeciate your help, input and assistance.

I'm glad you dig the exhaust, too. I'm pretty pleased with it so far. As soon as I get this project done, I will be giving the entire thing a bath, or at least use a moist towelette on the bike.

loudest143

[loudest143]

Back in town after my run to buy a used carby. Review of the dealer in the dealers forum. I get home, throw it on the bike, and it's whooshing like it's sucking straight air and no gas..... Okay, new jets time. Whoosh again. New pilot jet. Whooshie goldberg. Darn. I was hoping that if I wave my magic wand, my scooter will go 110MPH. I guess I was wrong, and I will have to work. I push my old carb guts aside. Ya know, my old carb ran well, even though I'm sure the new carb diaphragm doesn't fit, let's try anyways..... No, *sigh* no chance. I try the old diaphragm in the new carb, no they aren't interchangeable. I stick the old diaphragm back in the old carb, so's not to loose it, or damage it further.... hmm...

You're kidding, right? The diaphragm fits again?!? huh? How?

Long story short, I'm back with the stock carby, 105 jet and 37.5 pilot jet. Diaphragm needle is not adjustable. It runs, screams up to fourty MPH, then just kinda takes it time up to 55. I was riding in brutal cold and a stiff wind, so I'll wait until a warmer ride during the lighted part of our winter. IS this Alaska? It's like depressing and grey, even when the sun's out.

Plan of attack, now that the carb is functional. Test setup with a 102 main jet. Still don't have one yet, maybe tomorrow. Next, add one tuning ring to the exhaust, makes the pipe slightly bigger. Maybe it will increase my top end as advertised.

loudest143

[tp555]

That's progress.As long as you don't have a hole in the diaphram your good to go.Do you have ethenol in your gas in your area? You are dealing with 2 variables, the carb and exhaust.Try setting up the exhaust to max restriction.Then try a jet size.Its easier to knock out a baffle then change a jet.Each baffle removed gives you a hair leaner mix.

[loudest143]

I'm glad you brought that up... I think the carb is super close to where it needs to be. I couldn't find any 102 jets locally to replace my 105. I did go to 4 different places, all that handle low CC bikes and scooters. That would tell me that the 102 jet is a very popular choice in my area. Does that make sense? I know it's a huge assumption, but come on, my entire city is out of 102s? I was thinking if I get the carb right, then the baffle issue, would help improve performance, removing or adding a baffle. With the exhaust set to a "stock" aftermarket size of 1", I am imitating the garden variety HP exhaust.
I think the baffle addition should bring the powerband up to the high end just a bit. But if the carb is still running rich, and idling rough, will the baffle change any of that? I guess I'll have to try it out. The hard part about the baffle removal is that you have to wait for the pipe to cool. You can't take the bolts out while it's hot, you could snap a bolt or warp a baffle, according to the manual. Decisions, decisions.....

Oh yeah, Aerostudent, the 117 variator has offered no problems as of yet. I'm running 11G weights right now, and it gets me off the line RIGHT NOW. I can't judge top end just yet, as I was a popcicle by the time I got to 55, and was too stiff to try the flat out WOT run. Seriously cold last night.


loudest143

[loudest143]

This is me talking to myself. I located the 102 main jet, and got it pretty close to tuned. I've been trying to get it running smoothly throughout the powerband without any exhaust adjustments. I took it out for a spin, and brought along my tuning screwdriver tip for the air flow. Got it to take off quite quickly and smoothly with one small 'bwahhh' in the early midrange. I'm not too sure that it bothers me, as I've got some room to adjust it now. Before, with the 105 main, I was rich with the air screw all the way closed. Now I'm out a turn and a half, and I'll bet if I spend some time, I get it right on the money.

It's not hitting a good top end speed yet. Meaning, I've got it to it's original 55/57, but I think there's more there. I will try to get the exhaust involved on my next run, and remove one tuning ring. That opens the "pipe" size to above 1", by just a bit. 1.1", I think. It's such a big combination of things, and other than the diaphragm debacle, I've enjoyed this process. I can certainly tell you that getting to 30mph is happening so much quicker! No times yet..... If I sit back far enough, the front wheel wants to come up! I am still waiting on my ten gram weights.... I am thinking that installing them will take down some of the off the line quickness, and maybe get some top end speed added. Dunno, but hey, this is a crazy science experiment anyways.

To this point, hole shot improved significantly, and throttle response is improved. I have not tested top speed, nor have I checked plugs to see how close I am on mixture. 102 main jet, 37 pilot jet, 1 1/2 turns out on air screw, top speed 57 indicated, so far.......

loudest143
*pray for warm temperatures

[loudest143]

Three early morning changes.... New fuel filter, new vacuum hoses, removed hose between carby and air filter. I lost my 'tick' in the idle circuit, with the new fuel filter. Smoothed right out. The OEM filter was a joke anyways. I read in Riker's tuning blog about him making sure his filter was right on the carb, and that it affected his ability to get air mixture right so I tried it out. Blammo, no 'bwahhh' in the midrange when I need to accelerate while moving. Gone. I will test it out again, and see if I'm right about my results.

loudest143

[loudest143]

This will be the "I know nothing about anything" post...

I went from 4 rings to 5 rings to 6 rings on the exhaust today, with only a noticeable bump at the 5th ring. I will be returning it to the 5 ring setup tomorrow.

I FINALLY figured out how to mount my aftermarket intake manifold! I had to use a different piece of hose to do it, some really thin plumbing adapter stuff. It fits! You pretty much end up with the carby touching the intake, on this bike. Dunno why it is that way, but Sin from Down Under said he had a similar issue on his bike.

It's windy and still cold here. I did a few short runs, about 2 mile round trips, and the plug finally looks clean, not lean. It's black around the edge, but brown on the clip. Iridium ignitor looks shiny and clean. I think I'm where I wanna be with the carby. With the new intake on, my aftermarket air filter will need a short tube to get the filter on. I will cut down the old 90 degree hose that stuck out the side of the bike for a 3-4" upturned or slight angled pipe. I'm not expecting any complications with the stubby hose.

102 main, 37.5 pilot (oem), 1 full turn out on the fuel mixture. Idles smooth, no RPM measurements possible. 24mm OEM carby.

Currently running 11G weights.... I reached 55 on my next to last run, in 7-10mph cross winds. I did notice that once I reached 50, I could get off the throttle and then had some room... I cannot say that's performance based, as it was windy, and road conditions could have played into it. It's taking a good half mile to go from 40 to 50+..... It takes about 150 feet to get to 35!! Do I change back to stock weights,(14G) or mix the two? Do I get a set of 10G and see if that improves or detracts? I think the mixture might improve my top end a very small amount. I think the mixture of the 10s and 14s would be the optimal. I can tell you that the 11g weights get me moving right now, and I think that a balance of hole shot and top end are in order. It's gonna take a bit more work.....

I've still gotta double check the valve lash before I open up the tranny again. I'm not looking forward to that task....

One thought of note...... For you folks considering taking on the task of modding your bike for performance, I have an observation for you..... The experts are right.

This is a huge undertaking, and it is a delicate balancing act of which screw to turn, which part to replace, and which one to do first. I am not disappointed that I started this project, but I am disappointed that I didn't start this project in warmer more consistant weather, and that I have jumped around back and forth from fuel to exhaust to cvt. Bad choices have kept me guessing..... Do one system at a time, and then add one thing or remove one thing to test. I was hosed from the get go because my stock exhaust was gutted, and I couldn't find the exhaust that I wanted at the right pricepoint until AFTER I got started on the other crap.

It's very clear to me that the exhaust changes everything, meaning if you still have an intact stock exhaust, or one with only minor mods, keep it that way and get the rest of the bike rolling well. Huge pain in the butt working around a highly suspect exhaust.

I realize that I may be talking to myself at this point, but I'm thinking about the next guy who ends up looking for something like this.

Top speed today: 55mph indicated.

loudest143
* Oh great, I work all day tomorrow. sweet.

[Aerostudent]

Those jets seem a little bit lean for a stock 24mm carby. I have done no exhaust mods to my scoot, only an MRP filter with custom intake (read: 4"L of 1.5"ID tube from Lowes + spray paint) and I have a 35/112 jet set up on it (stock/Keihin). My top is up from 55-56 to 59-60, and the 40-50 range is awesome but it really hasn't had much affect on the 0-30 which is why I am ordering a racing variator soon (need more low end and torque, too many hills and impatient cagers). Anyway, that jetting sounds too lean, but you know what you're doing more than I do, just an observation.

Aero

[loudest143]

aero said, "Anyway, that jetting sounds too lean, but you know what you're doing more than I do, just an observation."

Oh, I wouldn't go that far! I most certainly don't know much at all. I went through some jetting scenarios with a 105, 110, and the stock "200", which is definitely NOT a 200. A jet that got picked up off the floor and stamped then jammed in my bike, I bet.

The 110 was awful. Wayyy too rich, chugga chugga rich. Bogged out right off the start with no fule mixture even open! The 105 was much closer, except for the top end. Lagged in the last part of WOT. 100 just made the bike idle horribly rough, and I couldn't make a difference with the mixture screw.

Now 102.5 seems to be right on the money for my setup. I pulled my plug to check after a perfectly clean plug was installed, and it came out with carbon black around the rim, and a brown clip in the middle. Lean? No, it doesn't seem that way. I will pull my plug when I get home to check it after an extended run to and from work.

Here's the screwy part! I bought an oem replacement carby, 24mm, although it's japanese built.... 35 pilot, 97.5 main. Yep, super lean main, IMHO. It ran awful, worse than my stock carb, and I also noticed that the pilot jet and main jet atomizer were totally different in appearance. Shorter, less holes, weaker materials.... Well, I bought the carby for parts anyways, so I wasn't overly suprised. Also, my carb diaphragm won't fit in the japanese carb, even though all the other parts are the same! Jets, throttle body, autochoke, everything is the same, just not that one part.

So I guess the jetting COULD be lean, if you have a carby like yours, or like my spare carby. For mine? It seems spot on. My top end issue is most likely the variator weights. I bet if I switch back to the stock 14s my top end comes back. I will be fooling with that later in the week.

loudest143
*photobucket haxor

[Aerostudent]

That's wierd. The carb you have pictured APPEARS identical to mine, but who knows. Also, mine does say made in Japan on it, so that could be it. Do you have the aftermarket intake on it yet? Mine has an MRP filter and I thought your's had a similar settup (which is part of why I thought it was so lean). Never mind, just looked at your sig and noticed the emgo filter mentioned, so it's not that. Hey, whatever works right? These China machines are all so different anyway, so who knows. It's YOU working on YOUR bike, so you know what it's doing and what it needs, not me, but do keep updating this blog thing, I'm reading it with much interest.

[loudest143]

Here's a couple of plug pix that aren't real good, but you'll get the general idea of what it looks like after roughly 30 miles. I would say a good 10 of those miles were during test runs, so that's pretty much WOT most of the time. I was running the bike pretty hard on my way to and from work yesterday which is 20 total miles.





Sorry for the poor quality.... You will see, though, that the plug is dark around the edge/rim, healthy everywhere else. I do not consider the color as "white" as I've had white plugs before, and they've always appeared covered with a white dusty substance.

This is an NGK iridium plug. Been in the bike for about a month, and I gave it a good cleaning with carb cleaner prior to this last round of tests, so it started off being extremely clean.

Share your opinions, as long as it's not about my poor photographic skills.

loudest143
*graphic memory

[tp555]

Looks close to normal.Maybe a touch rich ,but not a problem.

[loudest143]

The belt wear is pretty high for a bike with only 720 chinameters on it. I will need to replace this soon.



This is the 117mm variator in my Strada. Note the amount of free space around the outer edge, and the black mark is what's left of the belt travel mark. As you can see, I've reached a higher plane on the variator than what would be the true end of a 115mm variator. It's an improvement, albeit a small one. Results of my runs today below the pix.



I got up to my big giant wall of 55mph, and that's it. No more, no less. I did a run with 3 14g and 3 11g weights, got 55. More gradual ramp up to top speed, midrange great as usual, and creeped up from 48 to 55. Kinda underwhelmed.

I went back to my current favorite setup. All 11g weights, and it just screams off the line, and got through the midrange much quicker. I can still hit my top speed of 55, so I'm liking this set up the best. I KNOW I can get more outta the bike, it's a couple of small things to look at now. I will be checking the valve lash now that I feel confident that everything else is quite stable.

Note: I changed out all my hoses today with Motion Pro hoses. I little larger outer diameter fuel line, and I got a bubble to get rid of, but I found that right away the entire carburetion circuit cleared up. I knew the hoses were substandard quality, as I looked at a fuel line as I crimped it between my fingers while shoving in a screw during a carb change sequence. It was all cracked and separated around the inner diameter. Craptastic! It's still amazing to see how poor all of the parts on the china bikes are. Of course, I've only been up close and personal with a few, but man, they need to step up quality control in a big way.

Replaced the hoses: $12 for 6' of hose.

I will move on to adjusting the exhaust tune next. I will drop down to 3 rings, and see if that improves the performance in any way.

loudest143
*hosed by hoses

[tp555]

My top end reaches a wall also with my custom exhaust.Gets there quicker,but thats it.Not sure what the hang up is.My revs are 7200 rpm at 60mph.

[twitch]

I would kill for those revs. I barely hit 60mph at 10 grand.

[loudest143]

I did reset my valve lash today. Big deal, it's windy as h-e-double-toothpicks. I did realize that I should lengthen my course a bit. With the stiff backwind, I noticed that I need more straightaway for my final top speed run. Today I got 60, but it was because of the wind, I'm sure. It was encouraging that the bike stayed in one piece, however.

TP555, is the CDI next? I mean, I don't mind the revs being where they are, as I'm not hearing the engine get pissed and start screaming. Of course, I don't have a tach either. REALLY frustrating to not know my true rpms. I'm praying for temps in the high 30s again tomorrow, and NO WIND. I can't get a break.

Changed out my headlamps for H4 55w lamps today. My plastic did NOT melt. I also installed the blue "super white" 194s in my headlamp assembly also. They look cool. Thats it. Is cool worth 6.50? Yeah, I think so. I need a couple of new racing stickers, I took off my PowerSportsFactory stickers, as they were crooked from the factory. Nice, eh?

loudest143
*-17 karma! Do I win the lowest ranking race? SWEET!!

[Aerostudent]

You must have made someone really mad at you to do that much smiting. Or that stupid retard that smites when he's bored for no apparent reason is resurfacing. For some racing stickers, write to HJC and other motorsports places (if you like their helmets) I have an HJC helmet and it is great. Anyway, I wrote to them under a section on their site "if you would like HJC stickers..." and I got 4 of 'em (free, woot!). 2 are on my scooter right now, and the other two I'm not sure what I'll do with them, maybe the front half of the scoot... Also, Autozone has some stickers for cars (NOS is looking really cool right now ;D) that are too undersized for most cars, but perfect for scooters. They run about 6 bucks. I got some red dragons for mine (2 big/2 small->2 on main sides/2 on front sides below vents) and they look pretty cool.

Keep working on you scoot man! I know it has way more than that to offer! Mine is running tops at 59 straigh/level with a stock muffler (see sig for mods), so yours should scream when you get it tuned right!

Aero

[tp555]

I put cdi and coil in a while ago.Didn't notice any difference.I got to have a different gear to get the revs I do.Earle has a fiji and he revs way higher at 45 mph.So its got to be a gear.My clutch grabs at 4000rpm and I haven't opened it up to see what weights are in there. I got a spare head ready to go with polished valves and some porting work.Don't have the time to do it.Its on my list.

[loudest143]

Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm really satisfied that I've done the right things so far, and I should be running better than stock. I'm stuck in an area where the wind has just killed me over the last few weeks, and I can 't get a very accurate top speed result. As for today? Right now, it's wind gusts above 25mph! I'm laughing out loud at the weather report that says it's 18 with the wind chill. Of course our little timebombs like cool temps, but the old guy on the back of the bike doesn't survive so good.

I'm just waiting for some auctions to end for my new decals..... I've got shell, unifilter(I'm replacing my emgo filter next week with a uni) motion pro(hoses) white brothers (exhaust) no fear, and yuasa batteries. I've really gotta get my hands on a pair of Scorpion Exo (my helmet) stickers. I think I'll try to write them as you suggested, Aero. I could use a set of ProGrip stickers, too, as those are my grips, but they are hard to find....

I've removed the orange powersportsfactory sticker and the K&N stickers. They were both crooked. Rookie mistake on the K&N, the PSF sticker was always lopsided since I got it. I've added an Iron Pony sticker below the checked stripe on the front column on the black pan. I love all my 'sponsors'!

**Man, I almost forgot.... I had remembered a funny story while I was replacing my fuel line. The Motion Pro hose was larger than I had anticipated and the end result was a larger I.D. and larger O.D. also. I had enough new clamps left over from when I bought them previously, so they fit really well, as the fuel line could stand to be a bit bigger and 'solid'.

Old stock car racing driver won a daytona beach race, and the officials couldn't figure out how he beat everyone. Near the end of the race, everyone had to pit for fuel, except for him. He told the officials to follow him the 5 miles or so over to his local shop and he would let them look at his car. He drove it straight off the track and down to his shop, still with NO ADDITIONAL fuel stop!

The officials found that he had lined his car with FUEL LINE! They asked him why he had done it, and he replied that the rules say how big the fuel line could be, but not HOW LONG. He had an estimated extra 5 gallons of fuel in his fuel line!

I love that old story of creative engineering.

loudest143

[xciting500rider]

Oh if your battery is a little weak. These china scoots run like crap! OH - Darrell Waltrips mechanic Junior Johnson put bee's wax in Darrell's car and he won every pole that season. Air flowed over the car better. That's back before they all had Identical Bumper Cars. I liked it better then. Too many rules now! Banging cars around to win ain't racin. It's Pro 180mph Bumper Cars. Wish Nascar would get it's act together! Hope you got it all hot rodded. Everybody ought to go through it once hugh? It's fun till you get to old! I still do it at 55! Ordered a Racing Exhaust from Monaco, today, for my Kymco Xciting 500. It is made by a company who makes Exhaust for Moto GP racers and others. Thank god I do not have to Upjet! Good luck on your tuning. Most people don't know where the spark plug is these days!