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Post by cchris5260 on Feb 28, 2007 17:45:24 GMT -5
i have a 125 lifan eagle and the fuel pump doesnt want to get gas to the carb so i shorten the line andstill nothin.so i pull the vac line and it had gas in it .is there any way i can juct put a 12 v fuel pump on here and end this problem. i read one time a guy did but cant find it now thanks for any help
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Feb 28, 2007 17:56:42 GMT -5
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Post by earlwb on Feb 28, 2007 17:58:22 GMT -5
Are you sure it is not a fuel valve that is vaccum operated? My scooter has a simple vaccum valve not a fuel pump. You can bypass the valve for a while until you get a new valve or a alternative manual valve or something.
The vaccum valve uses engine vaccum to open a valve to let the fuel flow to the carb. But sometimes the valve diaphram gets a tiny pinhole leak in it or it gets stuck or something.
You only need a fuel pump if the fuel tank is lower than the carb.
I noticed that a lot of people think there is a vaccum operated fuel pump on the scooters, but it is actually a fuel valve instead.
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Post by ryan_ott on Feb 28, 2007 20:31:22 GMT -5
You might be better just using a manual valve and gravity feed, using a pump you will have constant pressure on the float needle in your carb and it could start making a bad seal and over fueling your engine.
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Post by scooterollie on Feb 28, 2007 22:25:07 GMT -5
Some of the devices are vac. operated fuel pumps, some are valves. Earlwb has the right idea about bypassing the device, if the tank is uphill from the carb, and seeing if fuel will flow to the carb. There is a reasonably high failure rate so that could be your problem.
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 1, 2007 13:40:12 GMT -5
yes its the fuel valve petcock thing so but what about the electric fuel pump how do i keep it from floodin the engine and which fuel pump do i get i need to know how to do all that. when i pulled the vac line off the fuel thing it had gas inside it so that probaly what wrong with it so do i just run the line from tank to carb and it should work fine
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Post by earlwb on Mar 1, 2007 15:04:58 GMT -5
You cannot use an electric fuel pump, as it has too much pressure for the carb. The carb's are not designed to handle the extra fuel pressure. You can temorarily bypass the valve using a short piece of 1/4" copper or steel tubing. Then simply get a new valve from a scooter dealer. Most dealers probably have a good stash of these valves anyway. Ebay has some up fro sale from time to time too. Some online scooter parts dealers have them as well.
Two cycle engines sometimes use a pumper carb, which has a small fuel pump built in. In these cases the crankcase pressure causes the pump diaphram to move back and forth, thus they can get a push pull effect going and with a couple of ball valves, it will move fuel through it. But 4 cycle engines do not have this crankcase pressure effect and thus can't get a diaphram to move back and forth. 4 cycle engines are designed to have a weak vaccum or weak pressure in the crankcase. Any more or less may cause the seals to leak.
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 1, 2007 16:24:45 GMT -5
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 2, 2007 0:38:17 GMT -5
:Dok so can i use it or not lol. i have what you all call a vacuum operated fuel valve but i want to run my fuel line in lot safer places cuz im a bigger guy and my girl likes rideing with me so i need to re route the line alot . i have 2 fuel filters on it and my gas tank is above my carb when im just on it but i have alot of problems keepin gas to it so...right now i have an ink pin between the gas tank line and the fuel filter line but theres lots off air in it and still have problems keepn gas to it. if i use 1/4 fuel line and hook the fuel bowl drain line up back to the gas tank maybe like a return? WHAT SHOULD I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im fixin to put air filter and new jets in.plus dont fuel pumps turn off once the line is filled?
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 2, 2007 8:50:23 GMT -5
Hey Chris, thanks for posting more information about your situation. Strangely enough I woke up thinking about your problem this morning and think I've got a solution that will help satisfy both sides of the electric fuel pump debate. First, though, I noticed you posted in the other fuel pump thread started by Stan Jessup. He's actually the owner of www.oregonvintage.com and could probably give you a lot of good advice on the subject. He's been quick to respond to every message I sent him so you may wish to get in touch through his website. But back to your fuel pump situation - You probably noticed, at the link I supplied, that Mr Gasket carries a 2-3.5psi pump. Considering you're just trying to overcome some dips and whatnot in the fuel line I'd suggest using that model. Tying the carb vent lines back into the gas tank would not work in terms of a 'return' system but what I was thinking this morning is that you can easily make a return loop yourself. (And no, I don't think those pumps will shut off once the carb is full of gas.) To do this you'd need 2 'T's for the fuel line, a small length of fuel line tubing and a spare main jet or something similar to serve as a regulating orifice. Put one of the Ts ahead of the pump and one after. Stuff the main jet into the short length of fuel line and connect the line to the Ts you already have in place. I trust you can picture how this would bleed off pressure when the carburetor's fuel needle was closed. If Stan's experience is any indication, you don't need to do something like this but figured I'd throw it out there anyway. Good luck with things!
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 2, 2007 14:43:53 GMT -5
thanks sussexscooterhead thats a little over my head but as far as the vent thing i meant make a return off the bowl drain line if i put a a fuel line from the tank to the filter then to the fuel pump then a nother filter the to the carb then run a line from the drain hose on the bottom of the carb back to the gas tank that what i was thinkin but you have already confuzzed me lol ...i will just get a pump and put small nipple line on it and 2 filters and lots of fuel line and pray nothin happens .if everyone else is doing it then it should work with me right? ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its drivein me crazy lol thanks so much for you help
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Post by ryan_ott on Mar 2, 2007 17:27:34 GMT -5
It will work for you but if you have a carb float needle thats already worn it will wear it faster, the pump wont shut off after the fuel line fills its a continous pressure. The carbs vent or overflow wont work as a return line but if yours has a drain hose (with the brass cap in it) you might be able to use that as a return. If you tee into the fuel line before the pump, the pump will circulate the fuel instead of pressurizing it. I think. That could solve any float issues. You could be having the fuel problems because of the 2 filters your using. Try just 1 and see
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 2, 2007 18:27:33 GMT -5
i have a picture that i want to send you to see what you think send a email addy to me and ill send the pic its a idea i came up with that might depressrize the system
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 3, 2007 0:02:37 GMT -5
I hope you don't mind I took some liberties with the drawing you sent me to show what I was explaining earlier. What you had drawn would work in my opinion although I think you'd need a restrictor in the return line you had dumping into the tank. I also thought drilling and adding another fitting to the fuel tank would be more trouble than teeing in as I've shown here. Hope this helps. Hmmm......sorry the text is so small.
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 0:31:58 GMT -5
ok so i did a good job on deisigning it but you think it would be better like this.i am fixing to take the 105 jet out and put in a 120 but i dont understand where to put the jet. the big T or the little t or in the line that goes around the fuel pump where the text is . so it will return to the tank even though gas is gonna be sucked out that tube or will it just run in circles releaveing pressure
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 0:35:27 GMT -5
by the way i took the choke off and unpluged it and jb welded the 3 holes up is there anything i missed i still have a vac line that goes to what looks like a acellorator pump or something but gonna do away with the fuel valve vac line
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 1:01:06 GMT -5
hey my scooter has a bowl drain ...what if i was too just hook it up to the T before the fuel pump and... but where do i stick the resrictor.... or would it have enuff to push it back up to b4 the fuel pump ? just lookin for the cheapest and the best and the fastest and easiest ....lol you are great for helpin
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 4:20:24 GMT -5
plus unrelated to the fuel pump thing im changeing the cvt gearing in the back im going with 2000 rpm spring all around but what should i go with on the front rollers im a little heavy and i have another rider with me sometimes.i know that if its not right its like doing 3rd down the highway and i dont want that so 2000 rpm in back and what in front . i think it came with 14s so should i go to 12 or what . ive ben told if one end is one way then the other side should go the other way in size .u catch my drift
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 4:24:40 GMT -5
i have an unresrticted cdi ported and polised the fac pipe fixing to gut it.got uni filter but have to re jet first.iridium plug fixin to get coil and wire then intake but just ordered 2000 torque spring and 2000 rpm clucth spring
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 3, 2007 9:44:41 GMT -5
Hey Chris.
Looks like you're a real night owl. lol
I'll try to cover all the questions you asked......
When I talk about putting a restrictor in the return line from the pump, or the 'loop line' if that makes more sense for this drawing, it can be anywhere in the fuel line that runs around the pump. I have it drawn right in the middle, below the text, but it can be at either end - wherever is convenient for you - just so long as it is between the two Ts. I suggested using a main jet because it's easy and you'll have a couple extras around anyway but you can use anything that will restrict the flow around the pump without actually blocking it altogether.
So, when the fuel needle in the carburetor is closed the pump will just circulate fuel around itself - it will not return anything to the tank.
Using the float bowl drain as a return line will not work. Mainly because the fuel tank on your scooter is higher than the carb so before anything would return to the tank you would have to fill the entire engine and anything else lower than the tank. Things don't drain uphill - at least not here in Wisconsin. lol
The vacuum line going to the carburetor is needed to operate the slide. The CV (constant velocity) carb uses intake manifold vacuum to regulate the opening and closing of the slide valve so don't remove it.
I think it's a good idea for you to get rid of the vacuum operated fuel valve, though. You can get a manual valve at just about any hardware store and often times even at a place like Sears. I don't think it's a good idea to go without some kind of shut off valve.
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 3, 2007 9:57:10 GMT -5
I don't have much experience with tuning the CVT and so can't tell you which set-up to run. Even at the best of times, though, I think finding the right combination is a matter of trial and error. You might want to consider getting a few of the cheap weight sets off eBay and experimenting with them - once you've found a good combination you can buy a higher quality 'roller' or slider set. Stan at oregonvintage.com has a lot of good information on his site and it might help you out to read through some of it - www.oregonvintage.com/Scooter.htmlYou mentioned you have a UNI filter and iridium plug but have to rejet before installing them - I'd suggest doing that in the reverse order, install the parts and then dial-in the jetting otherwise you'll be doing it twice. Good luck with things!
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 13:20:20 GMT -5
yes im a night owl lol.i figured that the gas would not drain up ,it doesnt here in arkansas either.lol stan say on his site if you put a uni filter on u have to rejet becuz they are lean from the factory shouldve had a 107 but mine had a 105!but 36 on the other side so his site suggests that i go to 120 and 38 rather than my 105 36 so i guess he knows what hes doing. the plug work great no matter what but the filter ahahaha wont even idle with it on lol .as far as the cvt really can just afford to do it once and i know i should trail and error but there are moths in my wallet lol. so im gonna go with 2000 rpm stuff in back and go 2 size smaller on my rollers i guess so if they are 14 then i will go 12 but when weighin them do i weigh the single or all together to get there weight .you know what i mean do i just weigh 1 and it says 14 and thats it or what??? so your from cheese state huh that cool . i dont really talk on the computer ,use it just for info and songs...shhhh.lol j/k im from arkansas no jokes please im not a HICK. your probably sayin the same about the chesse crack lol anyways . yes i have troble sleeping when i worry about something which is all the time (gettin help 4 that )lol thanks again for help i cant say it enuff. i do have troble adjusting the air flow to the carb and i kinda know how to read plugs but not good.ive red everything i can find on the site here and couple other places but.... once i chnge jets im nervous that i might brack it before i fix it good so any info on that????thanks a bunch chris also which jet are you talkin about the little fat one or the skinny one to go in the line,and after i do that it should just go in circles not flood the bike?right lol
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 3, 2007 15:12:43 GMT -5
I feel your pain in the finances department!
I've got to say, though, if you can't afford to tinker with your scoot it's probably better that you don't. A lot of this stuff is anything but an exact science - a set-up that works for one person might not give you the same results - so even with the most reliable information available it's still likely you'll be buying more parts than you planned for.
Things like jetting a carburetor and tuning a CVT are seldom done right the first time and to think you'll be able to get away with just 1 jet and one set of weights is perhaps a little too optimistic.
The information Stan was kind enough to supply on his site will serve as a good starting point for you - and maybe it will turn out to work perfectly - but you should be prepared for further work.....and expense.
I don't want to sound like a wet blanked I just don't want you to get frustrated with Stan, me or anyone else that might offer a suggestion if things don't work out exactly according to plan.
Anyway, on to more interesting things........
When it comes to weighing your weights, finding something that can accurately measure such light objects might be tough so I'd weigh all 6 at the same time and divide the total by 6.
So if the scale says 84g (+/-) you'll know the individual weights are 14g each - know what I mean?
In order to give yourself the most flexibility at the lowest cost you might consider buying 2 sets of weights. If the stock ones are 14g and you bought a set of 11g and a set of 9g you would be able to mix and match in groups of 3 and get the same combinations as if you had 9g, 10g, 11g, 12.5g and 14g sets which is a lot of options.
For the fuel return loop, forget I ever mentioned using a main jet as the restrictor - I was thinking of the hexagonal, Mikuni style main jets but the round ones your carb uses probably won't fit very easily into the hose.
You will probably be using 3/16" or 1/4" fuel line and Ts. Buy a 1/8" nylon hose barb as well and insert it into the the short length of fuel line that's going to serve as the return loop. Slide it in a ways and use a zip-tie to hold it in place. That will work fine.
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 17:21:52 GMT -5
well i use 1/4 fuel line but what a hose barb. and as far as the roller weights are you sayin to put a 11 then 9 then 11 then 9 and so on like mixin them or just one set at a time now i dont understand what you mean lol sorry but as far as stan he had the same jet and filter and thats what he used so thats what im tryin first .and i will buy till i get it right but im trying what people like you tell ,e to do first lol then i learn from my and there mistakes lol. but first i want to get rid of the fuel prob then get my air filter and jets in then pray that i can get the air ratio right
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Post by sussexscooterhead on Mar 3, 2007 19:42:53 GMT -5
A hose barb is very similar to a 'T' except it's straight. Sorry if you know it by another name. Here's a picture: You're right about the rollers, you can put one 11 and then one 9 and then one 11 and then one 9 and then one 11 and one 9. You can use any 2 different weights of rollers as long as they are evenly spaced in the variator. The combination I just described would be the same as using all 10g rollers. So you can see how with 2 different packages of rollers you can get the same results as if you had 3 packages of rollers. If you add the stock rollers into the mix you have even more options.
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 23:12:31 GMT -5
so this hose barb will just allow the gas to curculate around huh.what what would be the purposeof mixin rollers to make it even heavyier or what
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 3, 2007 23:15:30 GMT -5
i guess im gonna get 15s since i made it faster in the engine and in the back of the trany so to keep top end go heavy in front i guess lol ideas?
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Post by bond007 on Mar 4, 2007 11:05:03 GMT -5
Dude, I can't help but notice your tuning trials. That is just the price you pay for racing type tuning. You'll learn a lot. 2 cycle motors are the most pickey thing I've ever experianced. Pardon me but try to do one stage at a time. Your head is consumed and spinning with this scoot. I'm not saying you have ADD with Hyperactivity but it sounds like it is possible. I have ADD with Hyperactivity and Post Trumatic Stress Disorder. Also I'm in cronic pain from an accident with farm machinery. Lost my right Leg Above the Knee. I Understand your sleeplessness. I never go to bed before 12:30Am. Also have Cronic Depression. The drug that helped me the most is the fairly new one made by Eli Lilly called, Cymbalta. Comes in 30mg and 60mg. It is for depression and physical pain. It is advertised for depression on TV, but docs have found it helps for pain. It took 60mg to help me plus Klonopin 1mg 2X a day, to stop the shakes from the Stress disorder. Also take Ambien Cr 12.5 at bed time for sleep. I feel these meds are the best for me, but I still have days when 4-5 hrs. sleep is all I get. I Lost my leg above the knee 34 yrs. ago. When I was in the hospital; One of the Doctors told me I bled out 5 units of blood before the amputation operation. He Said; I am not supposed to tell you this but, you are not supposed to be alive. You die after you loose 4 units and pass out after you loose 2. There are only six units in your body! I never did pass out till they gave me the anasthesia before the amputation operation. It's hard telling what effect loosing that much blood has on the brain. Two weeks and a few days after the accident, I had my brother roll my motorcross bike in my bedroom and I put a new exhaust on it. Miracle of God. You can work and learn to deal with your problem with God's help. I did not get better in the head for a long time and was misunderstood by many. Finally I am feeling better now than ever. I quite riding the Big Bikes. Last one was a Yamaha 1100. To Heavy for an above the knee amputee. I'm 53 yrs old now and thanks to Scootdawg's review, I decided that a Qlink Pegasus 150 would be just right for me. Only thing I did not expect was it is the most fun I've had on a 2 wheel road bike. Plus 80 mpg. I did not mean to say all this but maybe it will help you. Trust God. David. P.S. I'm not a religious fanatic. I do'nt even go to church.
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Post by cchris5260 on Mar 4, 2007 18:09:35 GMT -5
david, you give me chills no more than 5 day ago i was diagiosed with all the same things you said manic and cronic depression.adhd,ptss,Severe anixiety,and a couple of other things from being beaten all my life and have developed fibromyalgia but im only 25 fixin to be 26 plus i lost my right knee in a football injury(but i still have my leg thankfully).and almost lost my left armdue to basketball twisted it bout 540 degrees.im messed up to a little .when i start thinkin about the things i enjoy it drives me crazy till i get it right and then it is never right . but this scooter and my goped and my bravada and mostly my wife krissi. if it wasnt for her thats it for me lol but yes i thank god for all my toys and her exspecially. but i have got to see all the right doctors for the right help yet though so i just sit here and freak out about what im gonna do next .lol ha ha.... thanks for the comment it was chilling definately
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Post by bond007 on Mar 4, 2007 23:32:28 GMT -5
I have found finding the right doctor was my hardest problem. The docs will try one drug at a time. Be patient or they will not give you the time of day. Some Docs have the philosiphy of not taking patients with this many problems and will give you the cold shoulder. Then there's the stupid Head docs or Brain Pickers, as I like to call them, who think they can fix it with counseling only at $150 an hour. Believe me you need meds. I found a regular MD to help me. Do not ever misuse or abuse the drugs you and the doc might go to jail. The Feds monitor all controlled substances. If you use to many and ask for your prescription to be refilled to soon Doc's and Fed's will find out. I once spotted a pharmacist asking people all sorts of info from patients getting refills. He was a fed or working for the fed's because he would drill people like a cop. Just warning you of what the general public doesn't know. Wallgreens is the worst. Trust God and your gut to lead you. Tryin to help. David-"Walk in Faith"
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