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Post by cathouse on Sept 23, 2006 21:33:52 GMT -5
where do you buy a repair part when you need one ? such as those rollers.
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Post by Aaron on Sept 23, 2006 21:48:46 GMT -5
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Post by daddyeby on Sept 24, 2006 20:55:13 GMT -5
well finished the short test of the differnt size rollers I used home made rollers three 10mm by 13mm 2 grams and three 8 gram 16mm by 13 mm stock rollers as I thought it extended the shift to a wider range. Time to order real rollers for next spring of verious weights and sizes.
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Post by Admin on Sept 25, 2006 8:39:29 GMT -5
You can use different weights (evenly spaced) but don't use different sizes.
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Post by daddyeby on Sept 25, 2006 22:04:11 GMT -5
Did it this weekend with what at least seems like a good result yes I kept them evenly spaced but I used differnt dia it extended the shift and smoothed it out you have to keep in mind not to use larger than stock it would be like having a to short drive boss but mixing smaller than stock with stock works you also have to used rollers the same lenth as stock or they could cock in the variator
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Post by somecallmetim on Sept 26, 2006 21:25:59 GMT -5
At first I thought this was a pretty weird idea, but the more I think about it, it does have possibilities. The centrifugal force on the weights increases with the distance they travel away from the center, it's not just proportional to the weight, so the rate of change in gear ratio increases as the weights move outward. With the different sized weights, the smaller ones would reach the end of their travel before the bigger ones would, which would be like switching to lighter weights after that point (only the bigger ones would be pushing against the variator). This should give a smoother rate of gear change, once the right weights and sizes were figured out. I would say "linear" but obviously there would be a "step" in the operation so it wouldn't be linear but (overall) actually closer to it than the standard setup. Of course, this will only give a "heavier-to-lighter" effect; if for some reason you wanted the opposite, you'd have to come up with some other idea. I'd be careful about using really small dia. rollers, too; they might get trapped under the edge of the variator plate at full travel.
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Post by daddyeby1 on Sept 26, 2006 22:49:53 GMT -5
They need to be the same lenth or they could cock sideways and get hung I dont think you can go much smaller than the 10 mm dia weights I made and used for the test but they was made of wood because it was fast and easy and wouldnt eat the variator. The test I did showed promise and did just as I thought it would I didnt try differnt weights I only made one set and the eight gram stock weight was the onlt stock ones I had. Also I did not do a long test just five runs. I will over the winter look for rollers. Another Ideal I have is if you have a stock drive boss that is much longer than 36mm you maybe able to use bigger dia rollers but you would have to be real carefull or your belt would rub the starter and be toast. My search for premade rollers is just started but the smallest dia roller I have found is 15mm not small enough if that is the smallest I can find I guess I will have to buy some round teflon stock and make them. or find a drive boss that is at least 40 mm or have one made so I can cut down 20mm by 17 rollers to 20 by 13mm. I will have to check alinement even then to see if you can get away with it but I think you can. Dawg I know you have been messing with scooters way longer than I have and you knowledge level is beyound mine, but the short test I ran has me convinced that it will work. Somecallmetim it worked as I thought and you explained above.daddyeby
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Post by T W I S T E R on Sept 29, 2006 13:22:42 GMT -5
Dawg, what do i do. I inspected my dr. pulley weights and noticed the flat spots were on the wrong side ?? ;D
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Post by T W I S T E R on Sept 29, 2006 13:24:29 GMT -5
Dawg, what do I do now?? I inspected my dr pulley weights and noticed the flat spots are on the wrong side.  ;D |
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Post by slowfire on Oct 1, 2006 11:03:36 GMT -5
Hey people: Variators are still a mystery to me.Haven't figure them out yet.When my brain starts working again Ill steady this thread at length and see if I can figure them out ...slowfire
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Post by Admin on Oct 1, 2006 13:08:52 GMT -5
Dawg, what do I do now?? I inspected my dr pulley weights and noticed the flat spots are on the wrong side. ;D Turn 'em over. ;D |
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Post by Admin on Oct 1, 2006 13:11:31 GMT -5
Hey people: Variators are still a mystery to me.Haven't figure them out yet.When my brain starts working again Ill steady this thread at length and see if I can figure them out ...slowfire Hey slowfire, this will help. www.scootdawg.com/downloads/CVT%20Basics.pdf |
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Post by cathouse on Oct 1, 2006 22:22:43 GMT -5
But if I file down my own, I can patent them and sell them as "Dr. Tim's Pre-Flat-Spotted Weights", promise incredible performance gains, better cornering, and a louder horn, and become fabulously rich and famous and give my kids bizarre names. be sure and get the cash up front and give no warranty, I don't think you'll have any repeat custoners.. however it you want a guina pig to test them look me up.. |
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Post by daddyeby on Oct 15, 2006 20:37:16 GMT -5
I came across some nylon 6-6 1/2inch round stock and couldnt wait till next spring to really test the smaller DIA rollers out for real. WOW I used to have a bad dead spot at 30mph the engine had to lug on up to about 40 on my 50cc scoot. I lost a little on top end but to 40mph its a lot quicker. I think if I used for the larger rollers 9 grams instead of 8 I wouldnt lose any top end, but I am not going to tune it any farther due to going to 72cc this winter and I will only have a couple of weeks till its to cold to ride to work at 630am. And I would have to retune after the upgrade. Here is what I used.
3 10mm by 13mm 2.7grams the new small weights
3 16mm by 13mm 8 gram standard weight
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Post by Charlie on Nov 12, 2006 11:36:15 GMT -5
Ok, I have to ask this. I have a 50cc AA Motors "Pony 50". I live in Eureka Springs, Arkansas which is aptly dubbed "Little Switzerland" Kind of like San Francisco without the bay or seafood, our mayor is gay though.
We have NO flat roads! Either up or down and I'm talking big, long hills. Our little 50cc hauls my fat 235 # ass up the moutains but lugs down to about 5mph in some cases. Right now there are stock rollers in it. I am due for oil and gear lube. Sooo, while I'm doing that I could change the rollers. Which rollers should I put in it for hill climbing without losing top end?
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Post by Aaron on Nov 13, 2006 8:51:44 GMT -5
Charlie you need to weigh your current rollers to confirm what they are and then go a gram or two lighter...there may be top speed sacrifices but very small ones. The lighter rollers allow you engine to turn faster(more in it's peak power zone) when climbing and accelerating. Your asking alot from a 50 though don't expect huge gains... the good news is they are cheap...around $20 See 50/80cc mods thread in 50-80cc board. Dave Riker has made a 72cc exceed 60mph. there are some inexpensive tips there that may squeeze some more out of your 50.
Aaron
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Post by Charlie on Nov 13, 2006 9:39:07 GMT -5
Actually the 50 is my sons bike..I just hijack it from time to time. My Rocketta 150 gets here today with any luck! Our town is very unique, very historic and has extremely narrow streets so scoots are becoming very much the norm in transportation.
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Post by Charlie on Nov 24, 2006 10:21:29 GMT -5
Aaron, Thanks for the advise. I am going to tear down the variator in the 50 this weekend. I will weigh the rollers then.
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Post by funderp47 on Dec 4, 2006 11:00:54 GMT -5
Lol why not just make it a manual variator.. A mechanism that push the the vari bye pulling a lever  .. hehe M Many riding lawnmowers have used a manual variator for years. The gear lever simply limited variator movement. If placed in the highest gear, simply pushing the "clutch" pedal would make the pulley infinitely variable, great for slowing down and speeding up. An idler pulley with a spring took up slack at the rear pulley. I noticed the effort in keeping the variator/belt area cool on my scooter. It seems with all the pinching on the belts to prevent slipping and constant moving up and down there would be a lot of friction and heat. I have wondered what kind of losses or efficiency a CVT actually has. I see Chinese mini-motorcycles with manual transmissions and chains, but not scooters. I wonder if the manual transmission would provide a performance increase on a typical 150cc scoot? |
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Post by daddyeby on Dec 4, 2006 19:54:34 GMT -5
Of course it would be more effcient but then it would be a motorcycle.
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Post by funderp47 on Dec 4, 2006 23:02:18 GMT -5
Vespas, Lambrettas, Stellas and Chetaks have manual shifts and are called scooters.
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Post by daddyeby on Jan 4, 2007 12:52:33 GMT -5
True. the line is pretty blured isnt it.
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Post by rookie on Jan 17, 2007 23:13:29 GMT -5
yo daddy I think you are definatly on to something here. I want better perfomance too and it seems to me that the smaller diameter weights are just going to sit there and go around and around and around and..... If it works, letus know!! thanx |
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Post by daddyeby on Feb 19, 2007 22:03:49 GMT -5
Well I have over a hundred miles on them seem to be doing fine. The ideal is the smaller rollers work with the larger at low rmps then are to small to at higher rmps. I am going to get a few more rollers and try differnt wieghts and sizes on my home made ones one thing to piont out is that is you are trying to keep the motor in its peak rpm band.
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;D
.. hehe