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Post by jonnyv on Feb 14, 2013 21:19:52 GMT -5
that's the Bergen I was looking for sorry but I should have asked who is it from?
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 21:26:39 GMT -5
Agreed its pricey and may not be reliable as a stock 250 which most have EFI and LC which is a plus . If you want a small hotrod a 2T is hard to beat for a cheap and easy project with lots of fun to ride My Echarm was only 1,600 mostly stock except for Dr Pulley sliders , NGK iridium , new belt and tires and will still hit 75 with 13,800 miles on it . The only Echarms I see for sale have a carb instead of EFI but there is a few Glorys out there with LC and EFI which have almost 12 HP where most GY6s only have 8 HP You need to read his POST he wants a daily reliable driver that will do run 55-60 all day long he wants it to replace his truck that sucks up a lot of gas getting to work. He DOES NOT WANT A HOTROD. Lefty
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Post by thebser on Feb 14, 2013 21:49:03 GMT -5
thanks lefty i just need a parts list that will get me to a cruise speed of 55-60mph at a low rpm so my motor wont blow up from high revving the crap out of it....im not looking to make a ricer equivalent of a scooter but to boost my top end at lower safer rpms simple and clean...
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Post by thebser on Feb 14, 2013 22:07:08 GMT -5
oh and my scoots a 2008 roketa bali 150
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Post by skuttadawg on Feb 14, 2013 22:32:24 GMT -5
Yes I know he does not want a 1/4 mile toy and only threw in the 2T comment for laughs . You be able to hit 60 with a stock GY6 with only upjetting and CVT tuning If you look on www.scooterelements.ecrater.com/ maybe a stock bore high compression piston and matching head will be enough to get you up to speed with out the hassle or risk of case boring
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 22:42:36 GMT -5
Thebser, Ok, so it probably has the 157QMJ motor look on the side of the sidestand under the CVT on the CASE of the motor it should be scribed the motor type.
Q1. What are the current RPMS at WOT right now?. Q2. What does the SPEEDO say your doing? Q3. What size rear wheel is on there?
I have a 150 157QMJ but mine is modded to the helt(HAHA). Mine will run 50mph at 5100-5200 rpms 60mph at 6100-6200 rpms and 70mph at 6900-7200 rpms. Lefty
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Post by skuttadawg on Feb 14, 2013 22:49:02 GMT -5
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 22:56:25 GMT -5
His is a BALI 150. Lefty
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Post by thebser on Feb 14, 2013 23:01:08 GMT -5
ill hafta look it over and get some numbers....its been cold the past few days and i haven't found the time to mess with it yet...
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 23:11:49 GMT -5
Well if you want to use the 150 and get to those speeds at low rpms I can get you there. Lefty
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 23:14:51 GMT -5
Look here for the motor you have: Lefty
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Post by thebser on Feb 14, 2013 23:24:56 GMT -5
awesome you have been a big help! i was just looking at some crazy stuff like a four valve head and just outrages upgrades lol Ive had a vento triton r4 and a some old mopeds like a trac liberty and a sachs. i didn't realize how many things you could do with scooters! im impressed ive worked on just about anything even a 1970 bridgestone 175 but this is cool....i like my scooter cuz its cheap and fun. if i can get it to the level i want it. im in...... Ive always been a tinkerer and small engines are my fav to work on.....
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 23:35:26 GMT -5
That is cool, that is why I need to know the rpms at wide open throttle and the speed the speedo is registering and the size tire that is on the back( I hope it has a tach on it). I know the tachs are not very accurate but they are not to far off. The speedos on the other hand can be way off some are off over 20%. But we need a base line of what the numbers on the speedo and rpms it is currently registering. Lefty
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Post by skuttadawg on Feb 14, 2013 23:56:48 GMT -5
I love how the China stuff is universal with tons of part options to tinker with where major brands can be proprietary in design . I had a ton of the old pedal mopeds which were 2T but they are nothing at all like my 2T scooter since they are chain driven instead of using a CVT and no where near the power or speed of a scooter . You may be surprised how much tuning the CVT can do for you . My old 4T 50 with BBK I went from 8 gram rollers to 5 grams and takeoff and uphill was so much faster with same top end but higher RPMs . I replaced the 12.2 gram rollers in my Echarm with 12 Dr Pulley sliders ( my first use of sliders ) and I must say I am impressed with how much better it performs at any speed and much quieter . My 4T 50 after 2,000 miles the rollers would rattle so bad I thought I was low on oil and pulled over a few times to check the oil level . You can do a few mods like diff variator weights and larger main jet to improve performance without pushing it to its limitation and shortening ifs reliability and engine life . My Echarm is my first two wheeler to have EFI and from the very start and to today it has the WOW factor in performance , ease of use , never stall or bog with instant throttle response and starting , plus never had to mess with rejetting , choke or idel speed adjustments as the ECU controls it all . The bad part is it has a rev limit in the ECU and being and old Ducatti EFI would require taking it to a Ducatti shop which both in town did not wan tto touch it in order to remap it . I have seen some piggyback program modules but they cost 200 and need a new oxygen sensor and I have let to read or hear of anyone using it and I would rather someone else be the first to try to avoid messing up a great running scooter www.ecotrons.com sells EFI kits which are not a locked ECU and comes with software and cables to fine tune with a standard computer instead of a dealer only computer module . There is a few threads here on EFI so I suggest looking into it as an option for later on as it costs 400 or so but IMO well worth it as EFI is by far better than a carb in every aspect
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Post by Scooter Elements on Feb 15, 2013 9:12:39 GMT -5
Where did you find that tool at that price? cheapest i have found it was $149.99
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Feb 15, 2013 12:07:28 GMT -5
I can run my 49cc/racing 72cc all day at 55-60 with many jaunts to 80 in between cruising. But once again my engine has over 1k in parts in it. I average near 25 mpg when do high speeds and near 40 cruising. My max rpm is 13,480 rpms. That engine that theyre selling for 2k+ canadian is the same engine I built minus I use a 3500 crank 3.5mm stroke. My engine has over 10k KM on it and I run it on the high way back and forth to one of my cabins at 60-70 non stop with 8.1:1 gears. I max out around 85, I average around 45 mpg doing it. You can cruise at 60 all day with a stock 150cc gy6 with an aftermarket variator, slider weights, exhaust, re jet the carb, and high flow air filter. Now being as youll be cruising near 7.5-8k all day make sure youre using full sythentic oil and change it every 1600 KM or 1000 miles. I changed to 13 inch rims on mine and gained 4 mph on top and near no change down low. Just changing the gearing ratio from 10.25 to 9.5:1 will also net you 7-8 mph on top and not lose too much low end. You need to make sure your tires are properly inflated also, its a major cause of drag resistance on any 2 wheeled vehicle. I was going to just watch this thread as I agree with 80% of it, but figured Id put my 2 cents and experiences out there. You can follow my link to my kymco 2t build and Ill soon post more on the build up of my GY6 62mm hoca kitted Carter DLX150i buggy and my tao tao VIP 212cc. As far as calling my 212cc a hot rod set up I think theres still more to be gained from it, its proven to be reliable daily and for long stretches, Ill say this tho stock starter will die if you go stroker. I went thru 3 starters and decided to just kick it over and replace kicker gears as theyre only 10$ compared to 40-80.
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Post by edfr on Feb 15, 2013 13:49:31 GMT -5
You say you agree with 80%, what 20% do you NOT agree on? I have a few questions about your numbers you put up but I will just ask for an answer for one of them only if you care to answer for the folks. Which gears are you changing and what are the number of teeth on them. They do not sell the gears by ratio they tell you the number of teeth on each. 8:1:1 ratio gearing what are the teeth count on the gears 16/37 15/38 etc.. ;D Lefty
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Feb 15, 2013 14:33:47 GMT -5
I run 16/36s which give a final ratio 8.1:1 or 14/36 for 8.9:1, you can accomplish it several ways. I use counter and finals but you can use any combination of primary/secondary, secondary counter final to get what ever you desire. If you want to know your final gear ratio you mark the wheel at 12 o clock and the primary shaft at 12 o clock and rotate the tire one time and count the turns on the shaft. I assumed we all understood gear ratios and wouldnt have to post tooth counts as its achieved many ways. Gearing on a stroker engine also is a lot lower than just a bore kitted engine. Although it comes down to CVT tune ultimately to drive what ever gearing you want to an extent. That extent being torque. As for what I dont agree on Ill leave it open as Im trying to be more "sensitive" to peoples feelings.
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Post by lovemy2strokes on Feb 15, 2013 14:37:01 GMT -5
Personally the counter and final are the easiest to swap also IMHO, primary can sometimes give you trouble.
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Post by edfr on Feb 15, 2013 15:14:36 GMT -5
I know all this stuff Just wanted it explained in much easier terms for the people that do not know. By the way I currently am running with 16/37 gears and have 18/36 gears that I will be slapping in when the weather gets warmer. The OEM gears were 13/40 and here is the of the difference between the OEM and the 18/36: Lefty
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Post by thebser on Feb 15, 2013 19:24:53 GMT -5
i cant wait till its warm enuff here to run my scooter and get the numbers lefty asked for...im stoked to see what i can do with that lil motor lol
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Post by dragzilla on Feb 15, 2013 21:56:02 GMT -5
The Bali is much heavier than the vento phantom style. I have both. basically, the bali is a 250cc scooter with a 150cc engine in it.
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Post by thebser on Feb 15, 2013 22:20:29 GMT -5
where is a good place to buy a 250 engine? ive been looking online and not coming up with much......i still think im gonna go with leftys ideas and make what i got work....because i like to build performance not buy it
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Post by edfr on Feb 15, 2013 22:31:55 GMT -5
What year is that Roketa, I looked them up and some have 10" rear wheel and some say 12" rear wheel. What does yours have?
Also they show the instrument panel and NO TACH built in. Did you look on the left side to see what motor is in there?
Count the number of bolts that hold the CVT, if it has a 10" wheel it is most likely a short case and the CVT has 8 bolts holding it on, If it has 12" wheels it is a version of one of the long case motors and the CVT has 10 bolts holding it on. Lefty
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Post by thebser on Feb 16, 2013 8:05:55 GMT -5
its a 2008
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Post by thebser on Feb 19, 2013 22:50:13 GMT -5
if i dont get time off to go ride my scoot im gonna scream!!! i got two jobs and its hard to find time to do anything
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Post by sharks06lly on Feb 20, 2013 9:24:44 GMT -5
if i dont get time off to go ride my scoot im gonna scream!!! i got two jobs and its hard to find time to do anything i know how you feel bro ive lost count of how many days ive worked i know its more than 30 lol 75+ a week is garbage for free time :/
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