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Post by ronlee on Feb 12, 2013 18:07:44 GMT -5
I would like opinions on the 2006 Bergman 400 as I am thinking of purchasing one. It has about 1200 miles on it. Is that a lot regarding the life of it? Is there any thing in particular I should be looking for as troublesome items. What is new on them since 2006 other other then a larger front wheel. Any opinions will be appreciated. I now own a 2008 Linhai 300 and really don't know what I will be gaining except power and speed. My Linhai is a wonderful machine and has been very good to me.  |
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Post by ronlee on Feb 12, 2013 18:09:06 GMT -5
Sorry that should be 12000 miles on the Bergman 400, not 1200.
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 12, 2013 18:35:22 GMT -5
I own one its a great bike they have added ABS but very much the same bike still. 12000 is not a lot what are they asking for it
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Post by d on Feb 13, 2013 1:01:00 GMT -5
I have a AN400 K7. 42, 000 miles. You should check out burgmanusa.com. for all things Burgman.
"D"
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Post by cruseman on Feb 13, 2013 2:38:46 GMT -5
I bought my 2006 an400 used back in 2009 and it only had 660 miles on it then. Routine patience will be easy. I will say that other than replacing a tire or two or three. I have tried Bridgestone, Michelin, and Dunlop. From what little time I have to find a better and longer lasting brand the Dunlop holds up better and has lasted longer than any I have tried. I will get you the exact model # if you like, also expect to replace the battery once a year. Now with 17000 miles on it, it still rocks.
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Post by gregsfc on Feb 13, 2013 6:07:39 GMT -5
I love that scooter. In the looks and features department, it's my favorite. I like the mpg too for its size. On the down side, for me, is its mass. It's a little bigger than what I need, and the instrumentation is a little far away and low from my eyes when sitting in the riding position, but my biggest dislike is that its price few a thousand more dollars or so than its only competitor (the Yamaha Majesty). I noticed that for 2013, they raised the price $200 and Majesty went up maybe $100-$150, which means they made the price disparity even higher. This makes no sense. It's as if they don't want to keep selling them. With money as no object, however, I much prefer the Burgman to the Majesty, but if I were shopping for a new 400, there is no way I could justify to myself paying that much more when there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Yamaha.
But with regards to a used Burgman, if the price is good, I would jump all over it, because I've heard they are rock solid for many, many miles.
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Post by danno711 on Feb 13, 2013 9:18:25 GMT -5
I would like opinions on the 2006 Bergman 400 as I am thinking of purchasing one. It has about 1200 miles on it. Is that a lot regarding the life of it? Is there any thing in particular I should be looking for as troublesome items. What is new on them since 2006 other other then a larger front wheel. Any opinions will be appreciated. I now own a 2008 Linhai 300 and really don't know what I will be gaining except power and speed. My Linhai is a wonderful machine and has been very good to me. Be patient and you'll find the right one for you. I spent 2 to 3 months looking through Scooter Finds, Cycle Trader, Burgman Riders, Local dealers and Cragslist. I eventually found this jewel...A 2008 with 8,000 miles for only $2400. Attachments:
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Post by WarrenS on Feb 13, 2013 9:42:29 GMT -5
The pre 2007 models have an aircleaner that can be cleaned and reused. The valves can be adjusted by the owner. The newer ones have longer service intervals but you have to buy paper filters and dealer valve adjustments. The new one also has a trip computer. I prefer the styling of the older one but that is just a personal preference. I also have a Burgman 400 Yahoo group. autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SuzukiBurgman400/ |
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Post by spandi on Feb 13, 2013 10:15:00 GMT -5
I would like opinions on the 2006 Bergman 400 as I am thinking of purchasing one. It has about 1200 miles on it. Is that a lot regarding the life of it? Is there any thing in particular I should be looking for as troublesome items. What is new on them since 2006 other other then a larger front wheel. Any opinions will be appreciated. I now own a 2008 Linhai 300 and really don't know what I will be gaining except power and speed. My Linhai is a wonderful machine and has been very good to me. Be patient and you'll find the right one for you. I spent 2 to 3 months looking through Scooter Finds, Cycle Trader, Burgman Riders, Local dealers and Cragslist. I eventually found this jewel...A 2008 with 8,000 miles for only $2400. So Danno are you saying you finally got it?! |
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Post by danno711 on Feb 13, 2013 10:32:56 GMT -5
I put down a $500 deposit and have a signed contract.
Now I'm just waiting for my tax refund, which should get here by the end of the month, and then I'll be able to go get it
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Post by spandi on Feb 13, 2013 10:39:52 GMT -5
Ok got it. (for a minute there I thought I had missed something.)
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Post by prodigit on Feb 13, 2013 14:33:55 GMT -5
Those are great scoots, but IMHO not really that much better than the 300cc china scoots.
Yes, they're more reliable, and have a bit more torque (thanks to fuel injection), but your experience will largely be the same.
I personally dislike CVT's.
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 13:43:52 GMT -5
Those are great scoots, but IMHO not really that much better than the 300cc china scoots. Yes, they're more reliable, and have a bit more torque (thanks to fuel injection), but your experience will largely be the same. I personally dislike CVT's. I think you may be on to something. At a local motorcycle/scooter fix-it shop here, I was able to do a close inspection of a Burgman that had some of it's body panels off, and was pretty shocked to find many of the sub frame components were made of thinner materials (1/8" vs. 3/16) than on my China scoot, and though it was laid out well, really nothing to write home about. Granted the reliability will be better, but one wonders how much of this is reality and how much advertising and marketing? |
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Post by danno711 on Feb 14, 2013 14:07:30 GMT -5
Granted the reliability will be better, but one wonders how much of this is reality and how much advertising and marketing? ..and how many of the negative opinions come from non Burgman owners and how many of the positive reviews come from those who've actually have owned a Burgman for many years? Personally, I decided on the Burgman based on the testimonies of their owners, and not from anyone who does not own one. Advertising and marketing had zero influence |
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 14:19:45 GMT -5
Danno My apologies. I did not mean to imply it wasn't a very nice machine (it is) and from a reliability standpoint you ought to do very, very well. Nor did I wish to imply that advertising had any effect on you personal choice.(as it obviously did not) I can only state in an accurate fashion what I saw and observed first hand after looking in, over, and under the machine. I am absolutely and unequivocally certain you will have a blast on your new, two wheeled, "Magic carpet"
P.S. Just please do me a favor, and take it SLOW as I have said before the 400 is a lot of machine. (especially just starting out.)
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Post by danno711 on Feb 14, 2013 14:36:01 GMT -5
The comment you agreed with was this
"Those are great scoots, but IMHO not really that much better than the 300cc china scoots."
You responded with..."I think you may be on to something."
Well I can only report what I've observed over the last several months reading hundreds of ads
from those looking to sell their scooters. I observed it was not at all unusual to see a Honda, a Burgman's or a Yamaha with more than 20,000 miles on them. I even remember seeing a guy in San Fran selling his Burgman with 80,000 miles on it. That being said, I don't ever recall seeing a
Chinese bike with anything close to 10,000 miles on it.
With all the complaints on Chinese bikes from the people who own them, I can't imagine how
you can claim equal status comparing Japanese bikes to Chinese bikes...then claiming their reputations come from marketing and advertising.
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 14:48:01 GMT -5
Danno again I didn't claim equal status, as long as you do regular maintenance you reliability should be superb, and what i meant by "onto something" is there maybe, just maybe (in the realm of all possibility) is a wee bit of microscopic, particulate, photon sized, overhyping going on here. ;D
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 14, 2013 16:00:09 GMT -5
The difference in material is more than thickness guys I would trust Japanese spec steel at 1/4" over shottily welded 3/8's or even 1/2" Chinese steel. Beyond that look at the welding on the joints that is were you see the difference. Big difference between automated welding and the very best a poorly trained and fed Chinese adolescent can do... Enjoy!
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Post by danno711 on Feb 14, 2013 16:38:37 GMT -5
Danno again I didn't claim equal status, as long as you do regular maintenance you reliability should be superb, and what i meant by "onto something" is there maybe, just maybe (in the realm of all possibility) is a wee bit of microscopic, particulate, photon sized, overhyping going on here. ;D So if someone came to you and ask for your advice on buying their first scooter...For the sake of argument let's say they had $2500 to spend...would you advise them to take their chances on a USED well-known brand...Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha or would you advise them on a NEW no-name brand, with questionable quality from China, where they'll probably have some money left over? |
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 16:43:53 GMT -5
Depends on which manufacturer you're talking about. I would have no hesitation at all in recommending a brand new Linhai scooter. ( the build quality is very good.)
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 16:47:16 GMT -5
The difference in material is more than thickness guys I would trust Japanese spec steel at 1/4" over shottily welded 3/8's or even 1/2" Chinese steel. Beyond that look at the welding on the joints that is were you see the difference. Big difference between automated welding and the very best a poorly trained and fed Chinese adolescent can do... Enjoy! This is the Znen plant. (where my scoot was built.) They don't look like poorly fed adolescents to me. |
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Post by danno711 on Feb 14, 2013 17:07:03 GMT -5
Linhai, I admit is not the typical Chinese scooter. It is good quilty and its not a "no-name"
But a new Linhai Yamaha Aeolus 300 is $3700. So, that's not an option with a $2500 budget.
Would you advise someone take their chances on a USED well-known brand...Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha or would you advise them on a NEW no-name brand, with questionable quality from China, where they'll probably have some money left over?
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 17:41:28 GMT -5
First thing danno since we are talking about larger cc bikes is there a a lot of options in terms of who to buy from. Secondly is this person mechanically inclined ? (that can make all the difference) someone who can do their own pdi and upkeep may well find it advantageous to get a better quality Chinese model. If not, than a good "pre-owned" Japanese model may well be the way to go. just remember fixing the brand name model (particularly if out of warranty) is going to be a more expensive proposition. Regardless of what you choose as long as your happy and going scootin' who cares?
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Post by WarrenS on Feb 14, 2013 17:42:05 GMT -5
First of all to compare a 400 to a 250 or 300 is not an even comparison. A 400 is like 1 1/2 the displacement of a 250. Second although the Chinese are improving in quality. it is hard finding a place to service it or get parts. That said if it comes down to the money factor you could consider a Chinese scooter. Some people here have found real bargains in the used name brand scooters.
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Post by danno711 on Feb 14, 2013 18:19:50 GMT -5
One of the biggest issues I have with anything coming from China is their overall attitude about doing business.
To put it simply.....they do not care about you the consumer. They don’t care about being sued. They have no fear of copyright infringements. They don't care they produce a product that's inferior....or even dangerous to use...imo. We’ve all heard the stories about someone taking their brand new Chinese scooter for it's first ride. Half-a-block later, they have nuts & bolts and engine parts falling off onto the street. Sure you can tighten the screws, but why should you have to? It’s a brand new bike. It all stems from an “They don’t care attitude” imo. Why should I do business with a company who doesn’t care about me? I’d be a fool if I did.
Then there is the issue of part supply, or lack there of. Then you have to find a good mechanic who you can trust with your new bike,.
If you think spending a few dollars less up front is worth all that…have at it…it’s not for me,
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 14, 2013 18:47:26 GMT -5
Spandi all I can say is never believe any pictures or anything that comes from a communist regime... The Chinese will do as well as they have too Linhai does do a good job we hear but aren't they Taiwanese? Even if they have Chinese factories the end result is not built to Chinese specs... Anyway I have seen both good and very bad steel come from China. Even Apple recently had issues with deplorable conditions in factories they were using there I'm sure the factory showed them something different than reality...
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Post by danno711 on Feb 14, 2013 19:01:06 GMT -5
You mean China is a place where their factory workers make about $1 an hour? www.cnn.com/2012/09/30/opinion/chang-chinese-factory-workers"I spent two years getting to know assembly line workers in the south China factory city of Dongguan. These young men and women labored long hours every day, sometimes for weeks on end without a break; the best factories gave one day off each week. A government-mandated 11-hour workday was routinely ignored, and factories frequently paid less than the minimum wage or withheld pay for minor infractions. Injuries on the factory floor resulted from safety violations and minimal employee training. Workers might sleep 10 or 15 to a room, with 50 people sharing one bathroom." They obviously don't care about their own people either ' ' |
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 19:37:13 GMT -5
One of the biggest issues I have with anything coming from China is their overall attitude about doing business. To put it simply.....they do not care about you the consumer. They don’t care about being sued. They have no fear of copyright infringements. They don't care they produce a product that's inferior....or even dangerous to use...imo. We’ve all heard the stories about someone taking their brand new Chinese scooter for it's first ride. Half-a-block later, they have nuts & bolts and engine parts falling off onto the street. Sure you can tighten the screws, but why should you have to? It’s a brand new bike. It all stems from an “They don’t care attitude” imo. Why should I do business with a company who doesn’t care about me? I’d be a fool if I did. Then there is the issue of part supply, or lack there of. Then you have to find a good mechanic who you can trust with your new bike,. If you think spending a few dollars less up front is worth all that…have at it…it’s not for me, First off danno it's a given that finding a mechanic to work on a Chinese scoot is nearly impossible, and second I see my mechanic bright and early each morning.. as i brush my teeth. As far as parts, since it's the 244cc CF Moto "clone" engine, parts are available all over the net. As for the Chinese' less than stellar business practices, if they (the Chinese) want to take their game to the next level (and the indications are that they do.) then it will have to evolve to a higher level of QC, but if you look closely they (CF Moto, Linhai, Znen) are all phasing out the cheap scooters and moving into the more expensive/ higher cc models. Time will tell. |
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Post by spandi on Feb 14, 2013 19:39:26 GMT -5
Spandi all I can say is never believe any pictures or anything that comes from a communist regime... The Chinese will do as well as they have too Linhai does do a good job we hear but aren't they Taiwanese? Even if they have Chinese factories the end result is not built to Chinese specs... Anyway I have seen both good and very bad steel come from China. Even Apple recently had issues with deplorable conditions in factories they were using there I'm sure the factory showed them something different than reality... Nope. Sorry Scootnwin, but Linhai is as Chinese as you can get. |
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Post by scootnwinn on Feb 14, 2013 20:16:56 GMT -5
Well then I stand corrected...
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